Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Jul 14, 2020 9:03:03 GMT -5
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on Jul 14, 2020 9:29:07 GMT -5
I think it's safe to say that the first round of vaccines won't be perfect, but 3 months is better than what we have now and it will allow time for further development.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jul 14, 2020 9:36:38 GMT -5
All the human coronaviruses come with temporary immunity. Reason why you keep getting colds, and they have not died out. So, it is reasonable to expect that we may not have a durable immunity. But, we cannot measure cell mediated immune responses, and those responses may be longer lasting, so we may develop a durable immunity. Problem is nobody knows. All of this is speculation, until there is evidence one way on another. But yes, we should be prepared that we will not have long lasting immunity. So we hopefully will have an effective vaccine, even if it requires periodic boosters. Not really all that different from other vaccines.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Jul 14, 2020 10:28:11 GMT -5
I think it's safe to say that the first round of vaccines won't be perfect, but 3 months is better than what we have now and it will allow time for further development. Agreed. I am hoping if we can find a vaccine that is say 60-70% effective, and that after the initial dose(s), needs an annual booster in the short term (and by short-term I mean 5-10 years) that would work that would buy the scientists enough time to work on more effective and longer lasting vaccines. I think we are going to have to trade inconvenience for immediacy and safety. And, personally, I'm okay with that. Providing we have a free/low cost and wildly available vaccination program, similar to what we have with the flu vaccine.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 14, 2020 10:46:45 GMT -5
I'm waiting for a peer reviewed study and a longer term set of data. This information, even if true, doesn't change anything for me. I am not going to hospitals and licking sick people to prove herd immunity, and when the vaccine comes out, I will follow instructions. If that is to get a shot every 30 days, then that is what I will do. If it is every year, that is what I will do. If I (or my people) get Covid and survive, I will follow whatever the best medical thinking is on that day. If they think I don't have immunity, I will continue my current lifestyle. If they think I am safe, I will venture out.
I can't spend my days pouring over these studies that I don't understand and come to some conclusion that doesn't have legs. I deal with enough idiots that talk about shit they clearly know nothing about. I can't contribute to that by becoming one of them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2020 10:47:57 GMT -5
All the human coronaviruses come with temporary immunity. (Snipped for brevity) That nugget of long known information, won't sit well with the scare tactic crowd.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 14, 2020 10:52:32 GMT -5
All the human coronaviruses come with temporary immunity. (Snipped for brevity) That nugget of long known information, won't sit well with the scare tactic crowd. Actually, it seems like the people who would want to scare you would love this information. Right? Or do you mean it doesn't sit well with people who believe who think others are trying to scare them for no reason and this will pass by Easter?
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jul 14, 2020 10:53:56 GMT -5
All the human coronaviruses come with temporary immunity. (Snipped for brevity) That nugget of long known information, won't sit well with the scare tactic crowd. You think this infection is the same as a typical human coronavirus? There are plenty of reasons to have a different response. Or you in the this is just a bad flu crowd?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2020 11:01:52 GMT -5
(Snipped for brevity) That nugget of long known information, won't sit well with the scare tactic crowd. Or you in the this is just a bad flu crowd? (Snipped for brevity) My response was just a little test. Still stuck on labeling what you project I am, are you ? H 2S
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2020 11:03:28 GMT -5
(Snipped for brevity) That nugget of long known information, won't sit well with the scare tactic crowd. Actually, it seems like the people who would want to scare you would love this information. Right? Or do you mean it doesn't sit well with people who believe who think others are trying to scare them for no reason and this will pass by Easter? The second one. There are a lot of people who don't take this seriously.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jul 14, 2020 11:09:59 GMT -5
Or you in the this is just a bad flu crowd? (Snipped for brevity) My response was just a little test. Still stuck on labeling what you project I am, are you ? H 2S Actually, I am not labeling, I am trying to determine where you fall on the spectrum of the severity of this illness. I have been doing my job for 30 years, and this was nothing like anything I have seen in any influenza outbreak. There are good reasons to respect the virus, and good reasons to try to mitigate its effects and limit its reach. There is a report that 50% of people who have had a significant infection could have persistent heart damage. Give we are still learning about the extent of the effects it has on the body, are you disagreeing with trying to limit the number of infections? Do you wear a mask when you cannot social distance?
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Jul 14, 2020 11:16:37 GMT -5
It's been reported that the most recent flu shot was about 45% effective which falls within the range of where it normally does. Hoping for a vaccine that's 60-70% effective seems like wishful thinking but here's to hoping for the best. I'm definitely not in the medical field but it's not unusual for antibody tests to show lower amounts over time while certain cells know how to fight the virus and can ramp up production when exposed again. Some areas that were harder hit might give a better indication of how this could play out long term. I know as of a week ago Sweden's daily positive results were 1/6 of it's peak while it's daily death rate was approaching zero and hopefully those trends continue.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 14, 2020 11:16:55 GMT -5
(Snipped for brevity) My response was just a little test. Still stuck on labeling what you project I am, are you ? H 2S Actually, I am not labeling, I am trying to determine where you fall on the spectrum of the severity of this illness. I have been doing my job for 30 years, and this was nothing like anything I have seen in any influenza outbreak. There are good reasons to respect the virus, and good reasons to try to mitigate its effects and limit its reach. There is a report that 50% of people who have had a significant infection could have persistent heart damage. Give we are still learning about the extent of the effects it has on the body, are you disagreeing with trying to limit the number of infections? Do you wear a mask when you cannot social distance? Despite my anger over all precaution being thrown out the window when it was protestors, rioters and looters, I do still take precautions. I will not risk my life or that of my loved ones. But in all reality, if we are saying that immunity is short lived and vaccines aren’t going to stamp this out, what in the world are we going to do going forward? Life has to go on. We can’t shut a country down forever. The fact that heard or vaccines will have a short life is really disheartening to me.
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Spellbound454
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"In the end, we remember not the words of our enemies but the silence of our friends"
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Post by Spellbound454 on Jul 14, 2020 11:21:17 GMT -5
Its as suspected. The Spanish study was peer reviewed and published. This is just a new one saying similar things. We don't know...........but there hasn't been loads of people being reinfected .....just a couple. What we are missing is a follow-up........... and not enough time has lapsed yet to evaluate it. It might be that you would have an annual shot along with your flu jab. Got to be better than what we have now.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jul 14, 2020 11:23:31 GMT -5
Actually, I am not labeling, I am trying to determine where you fall on the spectrum of the severity of this illness. I have been doing my job for 30 years, and this was nothing like anything I have seen in any influenza outbreak. There are good reasons to respect the virus, and good reasons to try to mitigate its effects and limit its reach. There is a report that 50% of people who have had a significant infection could have persistent heart damage. Give we are still learning about the extent of the effects it has on the body, are you disagreeing with trying to limit the number of infections? Do you wear a mask when you cannot social distance? Despite my anger over all precaution being thrown out the window when it was protestors, rioters and looters, I do still take precautions. I will not risk my life or that of my loved ones. But in all reality, if we are saying that immunity is short lived and vaccines aren’t going to stamp this out, what in the world are we going to do going forward? Life has to go on. We can’t shut a country down forever. The fact that heard or vaccines will have a short life is really disheartening to me. Once everyone has had this, or we have a vaccine, the virus has fewer hosts, so a major pandemic is not going to happen. Right now, the virus is at an all you can eat buffet, and it is having a field day. The number of susceptible individuals will decrease with each outbreak, so the severity declines. It is also likely to continue to mate, and if it becomes something that routinely infects humans, change in a way to co-exist with us. If you need to get a yearly vaccine, it is no different than the flu. In addition, there is every reason to believe we will find an effective therapy for severe illness. it just takes time, and if we are smart about it, we can mitigate the severest consequences. If we were willing to sacrifice, we should be able to find a way to be in a better place than we are now until these things happen.
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Spellbound454
Senior Member
"In the end, we remember not the words of our enemies but the silence of our friends"
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Post by Spellbound454 on Jul 14, 2020 11:32:59 GMT -5
[/div] You don't put the World in lock down for no reason. but we will find a way forward........... The Science on this.. and the speed at which they are working is mind blowing. Yes........ I read somewhere that some of the other human corona viruses may have been pandemics in their day.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Jul 14, 2020 11:34:00 GMT -5
Despite my anger over all precaution being thrown out the window when it was protestors, rioters and looters, I do still take precautions. I will not risk my life or that of my loved ones. But in all reality, if we are saying that immunity is short lived and vaccines aren’t going to stamp this out, what in the world are we going to do going forward? Life has to go on. We can’t shut a country down forever. The fact that heard or vaccines will have a short life is really disheartening to me. Once everyone has had this, or we have a vaccine, the virus has fewer hosts, so a major pandemic is not going to happen. Right now, the virus is at an all you can eat buffet, and it is having a field day. The number of susceptible individuals will decrease with each outbreak, so the severity declines. It is also likely to continue to mate, and if it becomes something that routinely infects humans, change in a way to co-exist with us. If you need to get a yearly vaccine, it is no different than the flu. In addition, there is every reason to believe we will find an effective therapy for severe illness. it just takes time, and if we are smart about it, we can mitigate the severest consequences. If we were willing to sacrifice, we should be able to find a way to be in a better place than we are now until these things happen. Personally, even more than a vaccine, I think effective therapeutics are really going to be key. Especially, as we have no idea what the next pandemic will be. I think as horrible as this current situation is, all I could think is how much worse it could be. What happens if the next virus has the transmission rate of COVID, but the lethality of SARs or even Ebola? To me SARS and MERS were the warning shots to COVID. And COVID is going to be the warning shot to something else more deadly. I just pray that we try and learn from this, and start doing more basic science research so that we can develop more novel therapeutics.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jul 14, 2020 11:45:26 GMT -5
Once everyone has had this, or we have a vaccine, the virus has fewer hosts, so a major pandemic is not going to happen. Right now, the virus is at an all you can eat buffet, and it is having a field day. The number of susceptible individuals will decrease with each outbreak, so the severity declines. It is also likely to continue to mate, and if it becomes something that routinely infects humans, change in a way to co-exist with us. If you need to get a yearly vaccine, it is no different than the flu. In addition, there is every reason to believe we will find an effective therapy for severe illness. it just takes time, and if we are smart about it, we can mitigate the severest consequences. If we were willing to sacrifice, we should be able to find a way to be in a better place than we are now until these things happen. Personally, even more than a vaccine, I think effective therapeutics are really going to be key. Especially, as we have no idea what the next pandemic will be. I think as horrible as this current situation is, all I could think is how much worse it could be. What happens if the next virus has the transmission rate of COVID, but the lethality of SARs or even Ebola? To me SARS and MERS were the warning shots to COVID. And COVID is going to be the warning shot to something else more deadly. I just pray that we try and learn from this, and start doing more basic science research so that we can develop more novel therapeutics. This virus is acutely a perfect one from an evolutionary standpoint. Quite contagious, most people don't get too sick, long lag time with asymptomatic transmission. Ebola like illnesses are less likely to cause a pandemic, because people get too sick too fast, and have less opportunity to spread, and will burn out as a result
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Spellbound454
Senior Member
"In the end, we remember not the words of our enemies but the silence of our friends"
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Post by Spellbound454 on Jul 14, 2020 11:49:58 GMT -5
Thats what they have been doing. The reason the Oxford group could get their vaccine going quickly....... is that it had already been developed for Mers We have been expecting a Pandemic for years..... and as soon as a new agent appears they start exploring it. Thankfully the Chinese let everyone have a look at it quite quickly. but its new......... and it takes time.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jul 14, 2020 11:52:33 GMT -5
Once everyone has had this, or we have a vaccine, the virus has fewer hosts, so a major pandemic is not going to happen. Right now, the virus is at an all you can eat buffet, and it is having a field day. The number of susceptible individuals will decrease with each outbreak, so the severity declines. It is also likely to continue to mate, and if it becomes something that routinely infects humans, change in a way to co-exist with us. If you need to get a yearly vaccine, it is no different than the flu. In addition, there is every reason to believe we will find an effective therapy for severe illness. it just takes time, and if we are smart about it, we can mitigate the severest consequences. If we were willing to sacrifice, we should be able to find a way to be in a better place than we are now until these things happen. Personally, even more than a vaccine, I think effective therapeutics are really going to be key. Especially, as we have no idea what the next pandemic will be. I think as horrible as this current situation is, all I could think is how much worse it could be. What happens if the next virus has the transmission rate of COVID, but the lethality of SARs or even Ebola? To me SARS and MERS were the warning shots to COVID. And COVID is going to be the warning shot to something else more deadly. I just pray that we try and learn from this, and start doing more basic science research so that we can develop more novel therapeutics. Well, we are cutting the NIH budget
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Jul 14, 2020 12:13:33 GMT -5
Thats what they have been doing. The reason the Oxford group could get their vaccine going quickly....... is that it had already been developed for Mers We have been expecting a Pandemic for years..... and as soon as a new agent appears they start exploring it. Thankfully the Chinese let everyone have a look at it quite quickly. but its new......... and it takes time.
Basic science researching funding has been cut endlessly for years here. The Oxford group is an excellent example of a group that were working on a vaccine for something that wasn't urgently needed, and it's why they are in phase 3 trials now. And I suspect it's probably going the first vaccine out, aside from whatever the Chinese are doing.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 14, 2020 14:13:26 GMT -5
Its as suspected. The Spanish study was peer reviewed and published. This is just a new one saying similar things. We don't know...........but there hasn't been loads of people being reinfected .....just a couple. What we are missing is a follow-up........... and not enough time has lapsed yet to evaluate it. It might be that you would have an annual shot along with your flu jab. Got to be better than what we have now.
The big question is to whether or not you can be reinfected. Just because there is no antibody, it does not mean that antibody cannot be produced on challenge quickly, since the memory B cells are still there.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jul 14, 2020 14:14:56 GMT -5
Its as suspected. The Spanish study was peer reviewed and published. This is just a new one saying similar things. We don't know...........but there hasn't been loads of people being reinfected .....just a couple. What we are missing is a follow-up........... and not enough time has lapsed yet to evaluate it. It might be that you would have an annual shot along with your flu jab. Got to be better than what we have now.
The big question is to whether or not you can be reinfected. Just because there is no antibody, it does not mean that antibody cannot be produced on challenge quickly, since the memory B cells are still there. My concern is if it acts like the human coronaviruses. If it does, we can be reinfected. Time will tell
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 14, 2020 14:16:38 GMT -5
Personally, even more than a vaccine, I think effective therapeutics are really going to be key. Especially, as we have no idea what the next pandemic will be. I think as horrible as this current situation is, all I could think is how much worse it could be. What happens if the next virus has the transmission rate of COVID, but the lethality of SARs or even Ebola? To me SARS and MERS were the warning shots to COVID. And COVID is going to be the warning shot to something else more deadly. I just pray that we try and learn from this, and start doing more basic science research so that we can develop more novel therapeutics. Well, we are cutting the NIH budget Which is going to bode well for academia research. Add this to the lack of H1B visas for cheap labor by foreigners, and basic research is dead in the water in the US. It is sad, because I remember a time where everyone wanted to come here. I am glad I’m not fighting this battle anymore.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jul 14, 2020 14:23:41 GMT -5
Well, we are cutting the NIH budget Which is going to bode well for academia research. Add this to the lack of H1B visas for cheap labor by foreigners, and basic research is dead in the water in the US. It is sad, because I remember a time where everyone wanted to come here. I am glad I’m not fighting this battle anymore. The republicans are the gift that keep on giving. No one wants to pay for basic science research until it is too late.People who did research on coronaviruses were probably told, "why do you want to study those, they only cause colds. No one cares." Imagine if we had treated the NIH budget like the military budget. People always wanted to come here because we did the best research. NEWS FLASH. There are smart people everywhere, and if we do not want them, they will go elsewhere, to our detriment. Short sighted as usual.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 14, 2020 14:28:15 GMT -5
Which is going to bode well for academia research. Add this to the lack of H1B visas for cheap labor by foreigners, and basic research is dead in the water in the US. It is sad, because I remember a time where everyone wanted to come here. I am glad I’m not fighting this battle anymore. The republicans are the gift that keep on giving. No one wants to pay for basic science research until it is too late.People who did research on coronaviruses were probably told, "why do you want to study those, they only cause colds. No one cares." Imagine if we had treated the NIH budget like the military budget. People always wanted to come here because we did the best research. NEWS FLASH. There are smart people everywhere, and if we do not want them, they will go elsewhere, to our detriment. Short sighted as usual. I have fought this battle my entire career. Who cares if people lose their teeth, it doesn’t kill you. That is, until oral health got linked to pre term birth, heart disease, diabetes, etc. Then things got much more interesting and funding loosened up.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 14, 2020 14:40:03 GMT -5
Or you in the this is just a bad flu crowd? (Snipped for brevity) My response was just a little test. Still stuck on labeling what you project I am, are you ? H 2S Given how poorly your post was written, we have no choice but to use your previous posts to search for the true meaning. If you want to prove to us you are different than we believe, start posting different things. And stop with the word-twisting games. It isn't clever.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 14, 2020 14:42:33 GMT -5
The republicans are the gift that keep on giving. No one wants to pay for basic science research until it is too late.People who did research on coronaviruses were probably told, "why do you want to study those, they only cause colds. No one cares." Imagine if we had treated the NIH budget like the military budget. People always wanted to come here because we did the best research. NEWS FLASH. There are smart people everywhere, and if we do not want them, they will go elsewhere, to our detriment. Short sighted as usual. I have fought this battle my entire career. Who cares if people lose their teeth, it doesn’t kill you. That is, until oral health got linked to pre term birth, heart disease, diabetes, etc. Then things got much more interesting and funding loosened up. The head of my former department is a dick but he was right about this. He was talking about it in reference to "hot" diseases. They suck up all the funding till the powers that be find a new toy to play with and funding moves on. Meanwhile other things get lost or cut entirely because nobody wants to study THAT nobody cares about THAT. Those fields never recover. You can't really develop any kind of expertise or get new blood in those fields because in order to keep the lights on money dictates you chase whatever is "hot" right now. It's also created a serious problem as far as validity and being able to independently reproduce results. That further undermines people's faith in science. Science self corrects itself but that takes a long time and the the damage was already done. That is not helped by the media reporting things without verifying, lacking the knowledge to know what they are talking about and/or spinning the results for ratings.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jul 14, 2020 14:42:52 GMT -5
The republicans are the gift that keep on giving. No one wants to pay for basic science research until it is too late.People who did research on coronaviruses were probably told, "why do you want to study those, they only cause colds. No one cares." Imagine if we had treated the NIH budget like the military budget. People always wanted to come here because we did the best research. NEWS FLASH. There are smart people everywhere, and if we do not want them, they will go elsewhere, to our detriment. Short sighted as usual. I have fought this battle my entire career. Who cares if people lose their teeth, it doesn’t kill you. That is, until oral health got linked to pre term birth, heart disease, diabetes, etc. Then things got much more interesting and funding loosened up. Or they got a severe neck space infection. Dental health is also linked to quality of life. In addition, you never know how a finding in one area is applicable elsewhere. Research is rarely pointless, and more knowledge always is helpful. But again, American anti-intellectualism at work.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on Jul 14, 2020 14:45:39 GMT -5
(Snipped for brevity) My response was just a little test. Still stuck on labeling what you project I am, are you ? H 2S Given how poorly your post was written, we have no choice but to use your previous posts to search for the true meaning. If you want to prove to us you are different than we believe, start posting different things. And stop with the word-twisting games. It isn't clever. I agree, he pontificates on his preferred points, and then searches for the best way to split hairs to avoid answering questions. Tiresome, and does not lead to any real discourse
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