Adjusting C-19 perspective

[Deleted]

Jun 23, 2020 16:05:02 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Science may get us out of this sooner. Not only by finding treatments and vaccines, but just by understanding the virus better. If we know its mode of transmission, we can better understand the risks of different activities, for example. Science progresses in fits and starts and sometimes there are dramatic breakthroughs. The one encouraging note on this is that people all over the world are working on this, so the chance of significant findings is dramatically better, but not guaranteed.

I do see a lot of convergence around the idea that outdoors with distancing is pretty safe. So, I can go out for walks and take long bicycle rides but try to avoid the gym (I have thus far). My Garden Club decided to have its annual tour of member's gardens as scheduled- we were all outside, distanced, most of us wearing masks. We hadn't met in person since early March and it was so nice to see everyone again. Airplanes and gyms? I'll let others go first and see what happens.

Jun 23, 2020 12:24:21 GMT -5 @shastasnewlife said:

Jun 23, 2020 10:34:06 GMT -5 @bamafan1954 said:

You are romanticizing poverty. <snip>

You completely missed my point. But, whatever.

I think I get what you were saying- people who amused themselves by taking Disney cruises, attending major league sports events and roaming the malls looking for something to want (I read that phrase somewhere- priceless) had to shift gears. MOre bread-baking, can't find flour or yeast anywhere, more gardening, can't find Legos or jigsaw puzzles because everyone is at home. SOme people shifted their spending to on-line but I think some discovered simpler, cheaper ways to enjoy life.

[jerseygirl]

Pulmonary the striking difference I see is HongKong and NYC with relatively few cases in HK. Both large very crowded cities with public transportation and some poverty. Difference might be Asian culture familiar with wearing masks and maybe some immunity from the 2003 SARs. But the difference is striking especially since proximity of HK to China.
What country do you think handled this well? NZ is very low but the population is so small and rural. SK again is Asian country with comfortable mask use and 2003 SARs exposure. Their tracing was/is fabulous but I can’t see US population agreeing to ‘invasion of privacy’ by government ability to access smart phones and CCs. China again although problems has very aggressive non voluntary system of tracking and even not allowing access to transit and stores without phone app health ok. Again not seeing how this could be used in any but a totalitarian system.
So - what country in your opinion has handled the pandemic well? What was done and is being done? Could this be transferred to US population? We already know what you think is amiss in the US but I’m really wondering about successful or less bad approaches

[jerseygirl]

Pulmonary the striking difference I see is HongKong and NYC with relatively few cases in HK. Both large very crowded cities with public transportation and some poverty. Difference might be Asian culture familiar with wearing masks and maybe some immunity from the 2003 SARs. But the difference is striking especially since proximity of HK to China.
What country do you think handled this well? NZ is very low but the population is so small and rural. SK again is Asian country with comfortable mask use and 2003 SARs exposure. Their tracing was/is fabulous but I can’t see US population agreeing to ‘invasion of privacy’ by government ability to access smart phones and CCs. China again although problems has very aggressive non voluntary system of tracking and even not allowing access to transit and stores without phone app health ok. Again not seeing how this could be used in any but a totalitarian system.
So - what country in your opinion has handled the pandemic well? What was done and is being done? Could this be transferred to US population? We already know what you think is amiss in the US but I’m really wondering about successful or less bad approaches

Could this be used in the growing problems in the South and in next wave in other states

[pulmonarymd]

Jun 23, 2020 16:44:38 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Pulmonary the striking difference I see is HongKong and NYC with relatively few cases in HK. Both large very crowded cities with public transportation and some poverty. Difference might be Asian culture familiar with wearing masks and maybe some immunity from the 2003 SARs. But the difference is striking especially since proximity of HK to China.
What country do you think handled this well? NZ is very low but the population is so small and rural. SK again is Asian country with comfortable mask use and 2003 SARs exposure. Their tracing was/is fabulous but I can’t see US population agreeing to ‘invasion of privacy’ by government ability to access smart phones and CCs. China again although problems has very aggressive non voluntary system of tracking and even not allowing access to transit and stores without phone app health ok. Again not seeing how this could be used in any but a totalitarian system.
So - what country in your opinion has handled the pandemic well? What was done and is being done? Could this be transferred to US population? We already know what you think is amiss in the US but I’m really wondering about successful or less bad approaches

Initially, no one. But if you look at the trajectory of cases in Italy and Spain, it is markedly different than is. I think Germany gets high marks. The difference is what they did subsequently. They seem to have a plan that is working. We have no plan, and are arguing about stupid shit. Our inability to even agree on simple things like masks is disturbing. You like to criticize Cuomo; don’t you think that the states that are surging now should have learned from his mistakes. That is far more egregious in my opinion. The difference has to do with correcting and learning from your and others mistakes, having a plan, and taking it seriously. We fail at all 3, whereas EU countries seem to have an improving situation

[thyme4change]

Jun 23, 2020 16:05:02 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Jun 23, 2020 15:19:02 GMT -5 @donethat said:

! year from now, if we can sacrifice (a big if), I suspect things will be better, even without a vaccine. Not necessarily normal, but better. How much better is up to us. Other countries appear to have better odds though, and if trump is re-elected, then it is 100% dependent on the scientists and a vaccine, given his ineffective leadership on this.
 

Even if Science could give us the tools we need, we would still need decent leadership to utilize those tools. The anti-vax and conspiracy movements are working overtime to discourage getting this vaccine. Trump won't stop that. If we can't get decent compliance, the vaccine will have limited effectiveness.

I feel for people who can't get vaccinated. They are depending on a bunch of dumb-asses.

[jerseygirl]

What governor seems to have done the best? And why??

[pulmonarymd]

Jun 23, 2020 17:07:35 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

What governor seems to have done the best? And why??

Inslee, by far. He had the first crisis to deal with, no playbook, and managed to keep case counts and deaths done to a reasonable level. Washington state could have been a disaster. The states with surges now could learn from him.

NY was a special case like no other city in the US. The only thing they could have done differently was shut down earlier. But, as Fauci says, you are always too late. They didn’t do a great job initially, but definitely improved, and I think Cuomo probably gets a C+/B

Some of the other governors were fortunate in the timing of this. In CT for example, they shut down at the same time as N.Y. good decision, but also lucky, as infection was not as widespread as it was in NY. Still was not pretty.

[pulmonarymd]

Jun 23, 2020 16:35:03 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

Jun 23, 2020 16:05:02 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Science may get us out of this sooner. Not only by finding treatments and vaccines, but just by understanding the virus better. If we know its mode of transmission, we can better understand the risks of different activities, for example. Science progresses in fits and starts and sometimes there are dramatic breakthroughs. The one encouraging note on this is that people all over the world are working on this, so the chance of significant findings is dramatically better, but not guaranteed.

I do see a lot of convergence around the idea that outdoors with distancing is pretty safe. So, I can go out for walks and take long bicycle rides but try to avoid the gym (I have thus far). My Garden Club decided to have its annual tour of member's gardens as scheduled- we were all outside, distanced, most of us wearing masks. We hadn't met in person since early March and it was so nice to see everyone again. Airplanes and gyms? I'll let others go first and see what happens.

Jun 23, 2020 12:24:21 GMT -5 @shastasnewlife said:

You completely missed my point. But, whatever.

I think I get what you were saying- people who amused themselves by taking Disney cruises, attending major league sports events and roaming the malls looking for something to want (I read that phrase somewhere- priceless) had to shift gears. MOre bread-baking, can't find flour or yeast anywhere, more gardening, can't find Legos or jigsaw puzzles because everyone is at home. SOme people shifted their spending to on-line but I think some discovered simpler, cheaper ways to enjoy life.

Outdoors is clearly safer with a few caveats. Still need some distance and avoid large gatherings. I feel comfortable dining outside with guidelines we have. Going at the pace that public health officials recommend would lead to a better understanding of the areas of risk, and where to draw the line, but instead, we ripped off the band-aid, and reopened the wound

[Deleted]

We had a wonderful dinner tonight.  It was amazing to see people again, especially the owners and staff of the restaurant.  It will probably be many months before we do this again, if they are open, but tonight it saved our sanity.  Perhaps days from now we will regret the dinner or maybe my grocery shopping but we will never know where we catch it, if we catch it.  Tonight sort of let me and DH reconnect, recharge our batteries and look at tomorrow as a new day, no matter how tough it may be.  

[Deleted]

Jun 23, 2020 16:35:03 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

Jun 23, 2020 12:24:21 GMT -5 @shastasnewlife said:

You completely missed my point. But, whatever.

I think I get what you were saying- people who amused themselves by taking Disney cruises, attending major league sports events and roaming the malls looking for something to want (I read that phrase somewhere- priceless) had to shift gears. MOre bread-baking, can't find flour or yeast anywhere, more gardening, can't find Legos or jigsaw puzzles because everyone is at home. SOme people shifted their spending to on-line but I think some discovered simpler, cheaper ways to enjoy life.

I honestly think in times like this, people could learn a few things from those who've lived in poverty. I also think those who live in poverty will actually weather most aspects of this pandemic much better.



When you have no money, you learn to enjoy your living space and free things you can do outdoors. Both are vital right now. You also learn to fill your time with many of the same things others choose to outsource - childcare, home repairs, yard work, etc... You find inexpensive, creative things you enjoy to fill the rest of your time. And, your identity and happiness aren't wrapped up in a fancy job title.

Gee, @athena53, you are forcing me to argue this point. 

People who live in real poverty aren't "learning to enjoy their living space" etc.  They are scrounging for $$$ so that they aren't evicted, their cars aren't repoed, and their lights aren't shut off.  They aren't living a "simpler" way of life.  They are living a more austere life . . . washing clothes in the bathtub because they can't afford the laundromat, doing without food so their kids can eat, etc.  If they baked bread, they did it because they have to.  But in all honestly, they aren't baking it because baking isn't cheap  They are buying day-old (or older bread) because that is much cheaper than the ingredients to bake your own.  They aren't being creative.  They are forced to do without.  And they are worried sick about both their jobs and their health.  You see, they are the ones who can't work from home.  They have to show up or they don't get paid.

To me, romanticizing poverty is no different than romanticizing plantation life.  The poor aren't finding inexpensive and creative things to do to fill up the rest of their time.  They are working 2 or 3 jobs just trying to make ends meet.  One of the nicest and hardest working people I knew was a coworker at Macy's.  She was a cafeteria worker at the high school where I taught.  Then she came to Macy's to work.  But she also cleaned houses and businesses.  And she still couldn't afford a car . . . or an apartment that she didn't share with 2 other families.  

I'm not saying that everyone who is poor is unhappy.  They aren't.  But they are the most vulnerable in a time like this, not the ones who will weather most aspects of this pandemic much better.  Their diet is poor, they can't afford medical care, and their jobs are the most insecure.

I'll get off my soap box now. 

[GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl]

Jun 23, 2020 17:42:53 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Jun 23, 2020 17:07:35 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

What governor seems to have done the best? And why??

Inslee, by far. He had the first crisis to deal with, no playbook, and managed to keep case counts and deaths done to a reasonable level. Washington state could have been a disaster. The states with surges now could learn from him.

NY was a special case like no other city in the US. The only thing they could have done differently was shut down earlier. But, as Fauci says, you are always too late. They didn’t do a great job initially, but definitely improved, and I think Cuomo probably gets a C+/B

Some of the other governors were fortunate in the timing of this. In CT for example, they shut down at the same time as N.Y. good decision, but also lucky, as infection was not as widespread as it was in NY. Still was not pretty.

I give Cuomo an A for Use of Facts, especially in the face of national leadership that undermined him every step of the way.

[pulmonarymd]

Jun 23, 2020 20:17:18 GMT -5 GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl said:

Jun 23, 2020 17:42:53 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

Inslee, by far. He had the first crisis to deal with, no playbook, and managed to keep case counts and deaths done to a reasonable level. Washington state could have been a disaster. The states with surges now could learn from him.

NY was a special case like no other city in the US. The only thing they could have done differently was shut down earlier. But, as Fauci says, you are always too late. They didn’t do a great job initially, but definitely improved, and I think Cuomo probably gets a C+/B

Some of the other governors were fortunate in the timing of this. In CT for example, they shut down at the same time as N.Y. good decision, but also lucky, as infection was not as widespread as it was in NY. Still was not pretty.

I give Cuomo an A for Use of Facts, especially in the face of national leadership that undermined him every step of the way.

I think Cuomo did light years better than trump who gets an F. But he did not shut down as quickly as he could have, and the deaths in the nursing homes, although understandable, are on him. The reluctance to acknowledge the possible negative effect of the protests is also a negative. But I think he did a good job leading since trump abdicated his job. I wouldn’t give anyone but the prime minister of New Zealand an A

[Deleted]

Washington is currently running out of hospital beds and cases are soaring. Not sure I'd tout him as the hero in this.


www.cbsnews.com/news/washington-state-to-require-coronavirus-face-masks-after-county-runs-out-of-hospital-beds/

[raeoflyte]

I'm also struggling with this switch. On one hand I knew this wasn't going to be a quick fix, but there are a lot of things that were tolerable for 3 months but painful to think about being the new normal for another 12-18 months. Summer is bearable. Fall and winter when distanced visits will be near impossible are very depressing to think about.

If you think the only people struggling are people who miss shopping and vacationing I question the relationships in your life.

I miss my parents. Its worlds better now that we are having meals on the patio and I can see them in person. Winter will be tough again.

My kids have friends they miss. They want to have overnights and normal play dates and birthday parties. They're tired of being scared.

My in-laws are trying to work at home with a very active 3 year old and an infant. They're probably on walk 9,478 when she called last week with the 3 year old screaming to see my kids because he misses them.

My never ending crisis of do I go to the dojo or not. The dojo did so much for my mental, emotional and physical well being. It isn't just a class it was a part of who I was and I can't imagine not returning, and dealing with the reality that they might not be there at the end of this if enough people are waffling like I am.

None of this is to say I don't love the bike rides, walks, game nights, projects, baking, and everything else that we are filling our days with. But none of those things are new. We used to have some modicum of balance of family time, personal time, and extended family, friends, and community. We've slowed down in some ways, but personal time is non-existant. I'm working or with my kids, and frequently working while trying to also help my kids. I don't see anyway this gets easier, honestly just more difficult.

[weltschmerz]

Jun 23, 2020 17:05:25 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Jun 23, 2020 16:05:02 GMT -5 pulmonarymd said:

! year from now, if we can sacrifice (a big if), I suspect things will be better, even without a vaccine. Not necessarily normal, but better. How much better is up to us. Other countries appear to have better odds though, and if trump is re-elected, then it is 100% dependent on the scientists and a vaccine, given his ineffective leadership on this.
 

Even if Science could give us the tools we need, we would still need decent leadership to utilize those tools. The anti-vax and conspiracy movements are working overtime to discourage getting this vaccine. Trump won't stop that. If we can't get decent compliance, the vaccine will have limited effectiveness.

I feel for people who can't get vaccinated. They are depending on a bunch of dumb-asses.

Trump packed the Mega Church today with young Republicans, who were not wearing masks. This is insanity in the state which is the US Covid hot spot, with 3,600 additional new cases just today. All of Canada had 300 new cases today, with a population of 37.5 million, vs Arizona's 7.3 million.

You are so screwed.

You have a leader who is deliberately spreading it around.


globalnews.ca/news/7100253/trump-arizona-rally/

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Jun 23, 2020 21:47:29 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Jun 23, 2020 17:05:25 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Even if Science could give us the tools we need, we would still need decent leadership to utilize those tools. The anti-vax and conspiracy movements are working overtime to discourage getting this vaccine. Trump won't stop that. If we can't get decent compliance, the vaccine will have limited effectiveness.

I feel for people who can't get vaccinated. They are depending on a bunch of dumb-asses.

Trump packed the Mega Church today with young Republicans, who were not wearing masks. This is insanity in the state which is the US Covid hot spot, with 3,600 additional new cases just today. All of Canada had 300 new cases today, with a population of 37.5 million, vs Arizona's 7.3 million.

You are so screwed.

You have a leader who is deliberately spreading it around.


globalnews.ca/news/7100253/trump-arizona-rally/

But but God will protect them!

[giramomma]

Our President isn't the only one that wants to spread it around. AZ has a republican Senator is wanting to spread it around, too.

www.forbes.com/sites/shaharziv/2020/06/23/proposal-24000-domestic-travel--tourism-tax-credits-for-next-stimulus-package/#17cc94c17283

“The tourism and hospitality industries were among the hardest hit sectors across the country and their revival is critical to our economic recovery,” McSally said in a statement. “My legislation will help boost domestic travel and jumpstart the comeback of our hotels, entertainment sectors, local tourism agencies. . . and encourage Americans to safely get out of their homes and discover or rediscover Arizona along with the rest of the amazing destinations our country has to offer after a difficult several months stuck inside.”

[raeoflyte]

Jun 23, 2020 16:44:38 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Pulmonary the striking difference I see is HongKong and NYC with relatively few cases in HK. Both large very crowded cities with public transportation and some poverty. Difference might be Asian culture familiar with wearing masks and maybe some immunity from the 2003 SARs. But the difference is striking especially since proximity of HK to China.
What country do you think handled this well? NZ is very low but the population is so small and rural. SK again is Asian country with comfortable mask use and 2003 SARs exposure. Their tracing was/is fabulous but I can’t see US population agreeing to ‘invasion of privacy’ by government ability to access smart phones and CCs. China again although problems has very aggressive non voluntary system of tracking and even not allowing access to transit and stores without phone app health ok. Again not seeing how this could be used in any but a totalitarian system.
So - what country in your opinion has handled the pandemic well? What was done and is being done? Could this be transferred to US population? We already know what you think is amiss in the US but I’m really wondering about successful or less bad approaches

I haven't seen anything indicating that sars provided any immunity. They're both coronaviruses but very different types, covid 19. Have you seen something different?

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Jun 23, 2020 21:26:47 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

I'm also struggling with this switch. On one hand I knew this wasn't going to be a quick fix, but there are a lot of things that were tolerable for 3 months but painful to think about being the new normal for another 12-18 months. Summer is bearable. Fall and winter when distanced visits will be near impossible are very depressing to think about.

If you think the only people struggling are people who miss shopping and vacationing I question the relationships in your life.

I miss my parents. Its worlds better now that we are having meals on the patio and I can see them in person. Winter will be tough again.

My kids have friends they miss. They want to have overnights and normal play dates and birthday parties. They're tired of being scared.

My in-laws are trying to work at home with a very active 3 year old and an infant. They're probably on walk 9,478 when she called last week with the 3 year old screaming to see my kids because he misses them.

My never ending crisis of do I go to the dojo or not. The dojo did so much for my mental, emotional and physical well being. It isn't just a class it was a part of who I was and I can't imagine not returning, and dealing with the reality that they might not be there at the end of this if enough people are waffling like I am.

None of this is to say I don't love the bike rides, walks, game nights, projects, baking, and everything else that we are filling our days with. But none of those things are new. We used to have some modicum of balance of family time, personal time, and extended family, friends, and community. We've slowed down in some ways, but personal time is non-existant. I'm working or with my kids, and frequently working while trying to also help my kids. I don't see anyway this gets easier, honestly just more difficult.

Agreed.


Even if someone misses those I don't understand what is wrong with that (not that that is what you are saying)?   Why do Americans have to turn everything into a contest?   Everyone's lives have been turned upside down by this and it isn't helpful to have others stand in judgement and tell you go do a puzzle.   I am getting angry with people who seem to get off on judging others right now.

And that's everything from being judgmental about what people miss, judging someone for wearing a mask, judging someone for going out or not going out.   I've had enough.

Yeah I agree there are things we should all be doing for the common good that have been reasonably established such as wearing masks and social distancing and washing hands.   Otherwise we're all freaking winging it including the experts.  We're all trying to adjust our balance on ever shifting ground.   So I'm not going to stand there and tell people who miss shopping that they are wrong and have vapid lives of no meaning because they haven't found joy in sitting down doing a crossword puzzle each night.   They are struggling to adapt just like everyone else and their loss of their normal is no less valid than mine.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Jun 23, 2020 20:17:16 GMT -5 @bamafan1954 said:

Jun 23, 2020 16:35:03 GMT -5 @athena53 said:

I think I get what you were saying- people who amused themselves by taking Disney cruises, attending major league sports events and roaming the malls looking for something to want (I read that phrase somewhere- priceless) had to shift gears. MOre bread-baking, can't find flour or yeast anywhere, more gardening, can't find Legos or jigsaw puzzles because everyone is at home. SOme people shifted their spending to on-line but I think some discovered simpler, cheaper ways to enjoy life.

I honestly think in times like this, people could learn a few things from those who've lived in poverty. I also think those who live in poverty will actually weather most aspects of this pandemic much better.



When you have no money, you learn to enjoy your living space and free things you can do outdoors. Both are vital right now. You also learn to fill your time with many of the same things others choose to outsource - childcare, home repairs, yard work, etc... You find inexpensive, creative things you enjoy to fill the rest of your time. And, your identity and happiness aren't wrapped up in a fancy job title.

Gee, @athena53 , you are forcing me to argue this point. 

People who live in real poverty aren't "learning to enjoy their living space" etc.  They are scrounging for $$$ so that they aren't evicted, their cars aren't repoed, and their lights aren't shut off.  They aren't living a "simpler" way of life.  They are living a more austere life . . . washing clothes in the bathtub because they can't afford the laundromat, doing without food so their kids can eat, etc.  If they baked bread, they did it because they have to.  But in all honestly, they aren't baking it because baking isn't cheap  They are buying day-old (or older bread) because that is much cheaper than the ingredients to bake your own.  They aren't being creative.  They are forced to do without.  And they are worried sick about both their jobs and their health.  You see, they are the ones who can't work from home.  They have to show up or they don't get paid.

To me, romanticizing poverty is no different than romanticizing plantation life.  The poor aren't finding inexpensive and creative things to do to fill up the rest of their time.  They are working 2 or 3 jobs just trying to make ends meet.  One of the nicest and hardest working people I knew was a coworker at Macy's.  She was a cafeteria worker at the high school where I taught.  Then she came to Macy's to work.  But she also cleaned houses and businesses.  And she still couldn't afford a car . . . or an apartment that she didn't share with 2 other families.  

I'm not saying that everyone who is poor is unhappy.  They aren't.  But they are the most vulnerable in a time like this, not the ones who will weather most aspects of this pandemic much better.  Their diet is poor, they can't afford medical care, and their jobs are the most insecure.

I'll get off my soap box now. 

The key difference concerns insecurity. If you are poor, even really poor, but your shelter, food and health care are secure and continuing. Sure - enjoy the simple joys of life. You can buy flour and yeast, you can spare the fuel to bake it. Rather than trying to conserve as much money as possible by buying the super unhealthy white generic wonder bread for 69 cents a loaf.

But for those working hard and having insecurity for food, shelter, and fearing large medical bills should something go wrong, it's tough. And you're on a treadmill, running from one job to the next, juggling childcare options, juggling due dates on your bills, exhausted, discouraged, behind on household tasks, trying to rally. 

[raeoflyte]

Jun 24, 2020 7:20:58 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Jun 23, 2020 21:26:47 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

I'm also struggling with this switch. On one hand I knew this wasn't going to be a quick fix, but there are a lot of things that were tolerable for 3 months but painful to think about being the new normal for another 12-18 months. Summer is bearable. Fall and winter when distanced visits will be near impossible are very depressing to think about.

If you think the only people struggling are people who miss shopping and vacationing I question the relationships in your life.

I miss my parents. Its worlds better now that we are having meals on the patio and I can see them in person. Winter will be tough again.

My kids have friends they miss. They want to have overnights and normal play dates and birthday parties. They're tired of being scared.

My in-laws are trying to work at home with a very active 3 year old and an infant. They're probably on walk 9,478 when she called last week with the 3 year old screaming to see my kids because he misses them.

My never ending crisis of do I go to the dojo or not. The dojo did so much for my mental, emotional and physical well being. It isn't just a class it was a part of who I was and I can't imagine not returning, and dealing with the reality that they might not be there at the end of this if enough people are waffling like I am.

None of this is to say I don't love the bike rides, walks, game nights, projects, baking, and everything else that we are filling our days with. But none of those things are new. We used to have some modicum of balance of family time, personal time, and extended family, friends, and community. We've slowed down in some ways, but personal time is non-existant. I'm working or with my kids, and frequently working while trying to also help my kids. I don't see anyway this gets easier, honestly just more difficult.

Agreed.


Even if someone misses those I don't understand what is wrong with that (not that that is what you are saying)?   Why do Americans have to turn everything into a contest?   Everyone's lives have been turned upside down by this and it isn't helpful to have others stand in judgement and tell you go do a puzzle.   I am getting angry with people who seem to get off on judging others right now.

And that's everything from being judgmental about what people miss, judging someone for wearing a mask, judging someone for going out or not going out.   I've had enough.

Yeah I agree there are things we should all be doing for the common good that have been reasonably established such as wearing masks and social distancing and washing hands.   Otherwise we're all freaking winging it including the experts.  We're all trying to adjust our balance on ever shifting ground.   So I'm not going to stand there and tell people who miss shopping that they are wrong and have vapid lives of no meaning because they haven't found joy in sitting down doing a crossword puzzle each night.   They are struggling to adapt just like everyone else and their loss of their normal is no less valid than mine.

True, I get the most frustrated at the idea that if only everyone lived liked me they'd be fine.

I decided this morning I'm going to dedicate time shopping for patio heaters. I was already planning on getting a fire pit, but will get a patio heater as well and as we re-work our patio make sure it is something we can break into separate spaces so that we can continue our visits and meals over the winter.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Jun 23, 2020 12:24:21 GMT -5 @shastasnewlife said:

Jun 23, 2020 10:34:06 GMT -5 @bamafan1954 said:

You are romanticizing poverty.  And that's your right.  But that's not the picture I gathered of your life pre-home sale.  Sure, you were doing the rocks, etc.  But you were worried sick about health care for your son, how to survive with the cartel surrounding you, and keeping your car running.  

You completely missed my point. But, whatever.

Yeah - maybe - but you're trying to be deliberately offensive too, so there's that.

Copping a 'holier than thou' attitude of superiority wasn't even necessary at all to make your point. You could have easily discussed pivoting to certain aspects of life, DIY, etc. that can bring a sense of purpose and contentment.

Then the insult:

And, your identity and happiness aren't wrapped up in a fancy job title.

You recently needed quite a bit of dental care. Dentist is a "fancy job title", and without dedicated doctors, nurses, epidemiologist, and public health officials - the world would be unrecognizable to us right now, rather than just slightly tarnished.

Engineering is another fancy job. Do you enjoy baking bread in an oven vs on a wood fire? having a clothes washer? microwave? driving a car?

Is electrician a fancy job title? Maybe plumber is not. But those tradespeople are skilled and your house would be a lot less pleasant without them.

You wouldn't be 'enjoying your simple life' quite so much if you weren't relying on labor of many with those fancy job titles you seem to despise.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Jun 24, 2020 7:31:58 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Jun 24, 2020 7:20:58 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Agreed.


Even if someone misses those I don't understand what is wrong with that (not that that is what you are saying)?   Why do Americans have to turn everything into a contest?   Everyone's lives have been turned upside down by this and it isn't helpful to have others stand in judgement and tell you go do a puzzle.   I am getting angry with people who seem to get off on judging others right now.

And that's everything from being judgmental about what people miss, judging someone for wearing a mask, judging someone for going out or not going out.   I've had enough.

Yeah I agree there are things we should all be doing for the common good that have been reasonably established such as wearing masks and social distancing and washing hands.   Otherwise we're all freaking winging it including the experts.  We're all trying to adjust our balance on ever shifting ground.   So I'm not going to stand there and tell people who miss shopping that they are wrong and have vapid lives of no meaning because they haven't found joy in sitting down doing a crossword puzzle each night.   They are struggling to adapt just like everyone else and their loss of their normal is no less valid than mine.

True, I get the most frustrated at the idea that if only everyone lived liked me they'd be fine.

I decided this morning I'm going to dedicate time shopping for patio heaters. I was already planning on getting a fire pit, but will get a patio heater as well and as we re-work our patio make sure it is something we can break into separate spaces so that we can continue our visits and meals over the winter.

Extending the dates for patio socializing seems a good move for you!

[wvugurl26]

Winter will definitely be a challenge. This is a huge struggle for everyone. We don't know how to do this, we are making it up as we go.

I don't feel comfortable doing a lot of things right now. I'm seeing numbers shoot back up in states that have been open and it's concerning.

I'm tired of the nasty comments because I don't want to catch this crap and I know it's still out there. Even the not straight nasty digs of if you aren't comfortable around unmasked people this activity isn't for you. I'm hella jealous of people I see online just going on and doing whatever. Granted none of them are in my state but it sucks. Apparently they think it's no big deal and have gone back to life as usual.

[oped]

Agreed. I’m doin fine because 1) my personality which isn’t exactly something you “learn” and 2) I got plenty of resources. This gives me time to grow veggies on my large amount of land and preserve... I can live like I’m poor largely because I’m not.


Also, I don’t have to live like I’m poor and can buy a projector for the back yard and etc. 

[jerseygirl]

Jun 24, 2020 7:15:37 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

Jun 23, 2020 16:44:38 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Pulmonary the striking difference I see is HongKong and NYC with relatively few cases in HK. Both large very crowded cities with public transportation and some poverty. Difference might be Asian culture familiar with wearing masks and maybe some immunity from the 2003 SARs. But the difference is striking especially since proximity of HK to China.
What country do you think handled this well? NZ is very low but the population is so small and rural. SK again is Asian country with comfortable mask use and 2003 SARs exposure. Their tracing was/is fabulous but I can’t see US population agreeing to ‘invasion of privacy’ by government ability to access smart phones and CCs. China again although problems has very aggressive non voluntary system of tracking and even not allowing access to transit and stores without phone app health ok. Again not seeing how this could be used in any but a totalitarian system.
So - what country in your opinion has handled the pandemic well? What was done and is being done? Could this be transferred to US population? We already know what you think is amiss in the US but I’m really wondering about successful or less bad approaches

I haven't seen anything indicating that sars provided any immunity. They're both coronaviruses but very different types, covid 19. Have you seen something different?

No but just threw in 2003 SARs since ‘maybe’ some cross immunity?? But definitely recent experience with SARs influenced tracking techniques

[raeoflyte]

Jun 24, 2020 8:18:45 GMT -5 jerseygirl said:

Jun 24, 2020 7:15:37 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

I haven't seen anything indicating that sars provided any immunity. They're both coronaviruses but very different types, covid 19. Have you seen something different?

No but just threw in 2003 SARs since ‘maybe’ some cross immunity?? But definitely recent experience with SARs influenced tracking techniques

Tracking for sure, but I think if there was immunity from anything prior we'd be farther along in treatment options than we are.

[raeoflyte]

A bunch of our extended family was going back to life as normal. And now they're home with fevers waiting on test results. Worst part though is it won't change anything regardless if they have it or not.

[wvugurl26]

Yes, being in a good position is very helpful. We are working from home. We have money to spend doing house stuff and improving our backyard. We got outdoor furniture finally this year. We have a projector screen on order for outdoor movies. The replacement remote for the projector arrived yesterday.

We aren't stuck in a tiny apartment. It all sucks but we are much luckier than others. We are growing some vegetables and I finally have flowers again.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

As you all <mostly> know, we lost a close family friend about 3 weeks ago to covid, so the risk is very real to us.

Still, I have a little bit of empathy for those who are resistant to further social distancing measures - or have a feeling of - how much longer can we do this??

I've been super busy with work since the shutdown. We are impacted heavily and needing to make constant adaptations in operations, I've done quite a bit of work on my research, and now thinking a little bit more about the pandemic response of - where are we going? how do we go forward that is best for everyone?

It's tough. it isn't a one size fits all by any means.

Both offspring lost their income sources, so are stuck here and looking, with limited options and opportunities at the moment. I'm working from home, so no loneliness on my part and with my favorite people on the planet.  We are starting to socialize with a few people in person here and there, trying to be safe about it. 

Loads of zoom meetings at work, have done some zoom socials with friends. 

Wishing I hadn't been so stingy about having a coffee out with my writing group and talking research, life, and working on computer at a cafe. Wish I'd done that more, because now, I can't.

Super glad I didn't give in to temptation and stretch myself to open my own cafe, like I've been daydreaming about for the past decade!