Adjusting C-19 perspective

[Deleted]

I went into this back in March with the same response strategy that I've experienced/used for years during seasonal crises like hurricanes. Stock up, board up, hunker down. But it doesn't look at this point like a short-term thing, not a once-and-done, so I'm trying to shift gears and lenses.  Being retired, we are far luckier than most in that we don't have to deal with job and childcare issues.  But I don't feel it's wise for us to ignore the likelihood that our way of life is altered for a longer period going forward.  I would welcome any thoughts on how to adjust to a longer-term experience of limitation.

Also, DH and I had a pretty serious discussion tonight about moving to another country, probably Mexico.  Obviously, no one is going to welcome us at this point, but perhaps in another year or so.....  Much will depend on November, but we've been thinking about relocation for awhile.  

[busymom]

I don't know what your community is like, but if money wasn't an obstacle, I'd probably move "out in the country" somewhere, in a less populated area of the United States.  This virus is in many countries right now, so I don't imagine moving to a highly populated area in a different country would make much difference in your chance of getting the disease.  And, wherever you are, you must be certain that the level of medical care is good, just in case.  In addition, you need to be in an area with good internet access  (the area my IL's currently live in, the internet is a bit unpredictable).  

Sadly, IMHO, I see this virus as being a big problem for at least another year or two.  Unless, of course, they actually come up with a proper vaccine.


It's good that you have options.  

[thyme4change]

I'm not sure there is a safe space on the planet. Mexico isn't Covid free, and neither are rural areas. But, both of those places could have healthcare challenges, maybe significant - depending on where you are.

I'd consider moving to get away from American politics, but you can't run from Covid.

[giramomma]

Our DPI came out and said to expect social distancing measures in the schools for the next 18 months.

I'm not sure if that means two school years, or one.

No doubt we'll feel the effects of the pandemic for a long time with some things.

But, I also think the simpler things stay the same. I've been baking with my kids for 14 years. Cracking eggs is the still the most coveted job. Well, it's a close tie between that and taking the wrappers of hershey's kisses for Christmas cookies.

[mamasita99]

Jun 22, 2020 23:11:29 GMT -5 giramomma said:

.

No doubt we'll feel the effects of the pandemic for a long time with some things.

But, I also think the simpler things stay the same. I've been baking with my kids for 14 years. Cracking eggs is the still the most coveted job. Well, it's a close tie between that and taking the wrappers of hershey's kisses for Christmas cookies.[br

Good point, and something positive to remember, especially when so many things in the present and near future are looking dismal.

[Deleted]

I haven't been affected by a lot of this since I'm retired. Even DS and DDIL, thank heaven, are pretty much continuing as normal. I'm beginning to realize, though, that so much of the changes I've made will have to be more or less permanent till we get a decent vaccine. I've read articles on the horrible after-effects of some of the people who survive COVID-19 and do not want to take a chance on having to live with chronic breathing problems, risk of stroke, having to take oxygen with me, etc.

So- I'll continue my reduced shopping frequency, with mask. No movies, concerts, or other large events in contained spaces. I'm avoiding the gym but keeping up my membership because I don't do well outdoors in cold weather. Plane travel postponed indefinitely although I have a cruise off Belize and Guatemala planned for October, 2021. MAYBE that will happen?

And i am not looking forward to the arrival of cold weather, which will drive many people indoors where they're more susceptible,

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I'm worried about the long term consequences.   We've been talking at work about the increase in requests for antibiotic sensitivity testing.   With being unable to sell herds it makes sense that they would want to use something cheap and easily available as opposed to our product.  But using more antibiotics is going to hasten resistance which is going to leave us in an even worse position when it comes to options to treat infections.

I am worried about the environmental impact of all this plastic.  I haven't seen much data to support the notion that we need to use disposable EVERYTHING and add on top of that a lot of cities are cutting recycling programs right now.   Are we willing keeping ourselves "safer' or is all this security theater?  What type of damage are we going to do to the earth?   Industrial dish washers get plenty hot enough to kill germs do we really need to generate as much waste as we are right now in the name of being clean?

So that's the type of stuff I am thinking about.  What are the unforseen long term consequences going to be of this?   Will we beat COVID only to have created a much bigger problem?

[bookkeeper]

Plastic waste was a HUGE problem before the Covid 19.  I have a friend who is a civil engineer.  He designs landfills and storm sewer/catch basins for a nationally known engineering firm.

He states that less than 10% of the plastic produced annually is ever recycled.  The plastic islands in the oceans are becoming larger and more numerous.  The petroleum industry has given us this monster and is gleefully feeding it every day.

I just wish plastic water bottles would be outlawed.  If water was sold in aluminum cans, like soda or beer, the odds that the container would be recycled would be much better.

[bookkeeper]

DH and I live most of the year in a pretty rural area. We have had about 4 to 5 active cases of the virus at any one time. Restaurants have reopened, fast food is still only through the drive thru lane.  State government is back at their desks and the courthouse has reopened.

The biggest change for us will be the lack of travel and avoiding crowds at entertainment events.  We eat at home most of the time anyway.  But we did cancel our Alaskan cruise for this summer and we won't be going to any concerts or sporting events.  We usually buy Fiesta Bowl tickets for December, but haven't pulled the trigger on that purchase.

Our daughter in law does not want visitors at their house.  She has asthma and cares for her father with health issues.  I miss her and our son, but I do respect their wishes and I am glad they are taking precautions.

We bought a small camper last year.  It is our new Covid escape bubble.  We can go out camping during the week to get out of the house and still avoid people.

[Tiny]

I'm not quite sure what the appeal of a foriegn country would be - other than having perhaps a 'lower cost' of living (with the 'surprise' that somethings cost a whole heck of a lot more - so you've just shifted your expenses)... you may still find yourself isolated and reliant on the kindness of other people.   I'm pretty sure people can be mean, bigoted, uncompassionate, greedy, and dangerous no matter where you go.   (they can also be compassionate, kind, helpful, and giving no matter where you go.  Human nature is pretty much a universal thing for us humans.   ) 

I pretty much starting looking out to 4th quarter 2020 and 1st quarter 2021 back in April/May... In the middle of June  many of the things I do have officially been "canceled" thru the end of 2020.  So now I'm kind of looking out 2nd/3rd quarter 2021.  

I've re-arranged my finances (I was relying on bonuses which I will not get this year for a couple of discretionary things for 2020).  I've started looking for entertainment things I can do to replace the things I use to do.  (it's kind of fun!). 

I still have friends and relatives mourning the lose of "travel" and "eating out" and "never ending shopping" and whatever else they use to do to fill the "time".  I'm hoping at some point they cope with the grief and find something else to do.  

I've done a handful of things over the last three months that I maybe would never have accomplished if I wasn't working from home.  I'm thinking about what other things I can add to the list for the next few months.     

I'm keeping my usual 4 to 6 week supply of "stuff I hate to run out of".  It seems that I have access to most of the 'stuff' I would need to buy for any projects or things I want to do.   I'm kind of looking forward to future.  I'm no longer running from "event" to "event" and feeling frazzled or like I'm missing out on life.   I'm enjoying what I'm doing right now.     Not really feelng deprived. 

I am alittle anxious though - because I'm in the final leg (5 years) of my "Achieving Financial Independence" plan.   I may loose my high paying job sooner than anticipated.   But, I've got a good financial foundation so losing the job would not be a disaster  more like a minor set back or bump.    In the meantime, I'm just plugging away at the plan.  There's not much I can adjust at this point - it's  the end game. 

[Tiny]

I have to wonder how our ancestors survived the never ending tedium and  boredom that their lives must have been...  no tv, no radio, no weekly shopping, eating the same food day after day after day.       <-- sarcasm folks... but also alittle serious... 

100 years ago people must have been dropping from boredom. 
Maybe that's why there were so many wars going on around the world- they needed something to do... 

[Deleted]

I think the people who start to adjust their thinking/behavior sooner rather than later will be better off in the end. This isn't going anywhere anytime soon and I can only assume it will get a lot worse.

Preserving capital is vital for most people unless they have multiple years worth of expenses banked or guaranteed income from a non-employment source.

Stocking up on things in a reasonable manner should be a priority. It's clear prices are going up and there will be shortages of various things. Having sufficient stock means not having to leave home when the virus explodes in your local area.

I honestly think in times like this, people could learn a few things from those who've lived in poverty. I also think those who live in poverty will actually weather most aspects of this pandemic much better.

When you have no money, you learn to enjoy your living space and free things you can do outdoors. Both are vital right now. You also learn to fill your time with many of the same things others choose to outsource - childcare, home repairs, yard work, etc... You find inexpensive, creative things you enjoy to fill the rest of your time. And, your identity and happiness aren't wrapped up in a fancy job title.  

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Jun 23, 2020 7:49:21 GMT -5 bookkeeper said:

Plastic waste was a HUGE problem before the Covid 19.  I have a friend who is a civil engineer.  He designs landfills and storm sewer/catch basins for a nationally known engineering firm.

He states that less than 10% of the plastic produced annually is ever recycled.  The plastic islands in the oceans are becoming larger and more numerous.  The petroleum industry has given us this monster and is gleefully feeding it every day.

I just wish plastic water bottles would be outlawed.  If water was sold in aluminum cans, like soda or beer, the odds that the container would be recycled would be much better.

It was but at least people were starting to care with things like plastic bag bans which have now been completely thrown out the window.   Then resturants and bars are supposed to generate even more waste so people can feel comfortable.

Meanwhile there is no data showing this actually DOES anything.   We are already going to have to pay the piper for our waste but do we really need to be speeding it up?    Sure COVID may last a few years but the cost of making everyone feel comfy about grocery shopping and dining out is going to follow us for the rest of our lives.

Same with antibiotics.  Resistance is already a major problem but do we need to sprint to the finish line?

[Deleted]

Jun 23, 2020 9:39:16 GMT -5 @shastasnewlife said:

I honestly think in times like this, people could learn a few things from those who've lived in poverty. I also think those who live in poverty will actually weather most aspects of this pandemic much better.

When you have no money, you learn to enjoy your living space and free things you can do outdoors. Both are vital right now. You also learn to fill your time with many of the same things others choose to outsource - childcare, home repairs, yard work, etc... You find inexpensive, creative things you enjoy to fill the rest of your time. And, your identity and happiness aren't wrapped up in a fancy job title.  

You are romanticizing poverty.  And that's your right.  But that's not the picture I gathered of your life pre-home sale.  Sure, you were doing the rocks, etc.  But you were worried sick about health care for your son, how to survive with the cartel surrounding you, and keeping your car running.  

[jelloshots4all]

Jun 23, 2020 7:21:53 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I'm worried about the long term consequences.   We've been talking at work about the increase in requests for antibiotic sensitivity testing.   With being unable to sell herds it makes sense that they would want to use something cheap and easily available as opposed to our product.  But using more antibiotics is going to hasten resistance which is going to leave us in an even worse position when it comes to options to treat infections.

I am worried about the environmental impact of all this plastic.  I haven't seen much data to support the notion that we need to use disposable EVERYTHING and add on top of that a lot of cities are cutting recycling programs right now.   Are we willing keeping ourselves "safer' or is all this security theater?  What type of damage are we going to do to the earth?   Industrial dish washers get plenty hot enough to kill germs do we really need to generate as much waste as we are right now in the name of being clean?

So that's the type of stuff I am thinking about.  What are the unforseen long term consequences going to be of this?   Will we beat COVID only to have created a much bigger problem?

I would think there would be less plastic water bottle consumption.  I know when I am at home I use my fridge dispenser.  Also, without any sporting events, that has to be a huge reduction (thinking about kids soccer and baseball tourneys, pro sports events, etc.)

[thyme4change]

Jun 23, 2020 10:46:26 GMT -5 jelloshots4all said:

Jun 23, 2020 7:21:53 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I'm worried about the long term consequences.   We've been talking at work about the increase in requests for antibiotic sensitivity testing.   With being unable to sell herds it makes sense that they would want to use something cheap and easily available as opposed to our product.  But using more antibiotics is going to hasten resistance which is going to leave us in an even worse position when it comes to options to treat infections.

I am worried about the environmental impact of all this plastic.  I haven't seen much data to support the notion that we need to use disposable EVERYTHING and add on top of that a lot of cities are cutting recycling programs right now.   Are we willing keeping ourselves "safer' or is all this security theater?  What type of damage are we going to do to the earth?   Industrial dish washers get plenty hot enough to kill germs do we really need to generate as much waste as we are right now in the name of being clean?

So that's the type of stuff I am thinking about.  What are the unforseen long term consequences going to be of this?   Will we beat COVID only to have created a much bigger problem?

I would think there would be less plastic water bottle consumption.  I know when I am at home I use my fridge dispenser.  Also, without any sporting events, that has to be a huge reduction (thinking about kids soccer and baseball tourneys, pro sports events, etc.)

Yes, but very few businesses are allowing re-usable anything. So, I have gone from using cloth bags at the grocery store, to getting plastic bags. And boy do they give you a lot of plastic grocery bags. We went to our favorite coffee place. They are only using disposable cups, and if you want a refill, they give you a second cup. Restaurants and bars are open, but a lot of them are giving plastic cups for water or beer, etc. Not reusable glasses.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Jun 23, 2020 10:52:23 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Jun 23, 2020 10:46:26 GMT -5 jelloshots4all said:

I would think there would be less plastic water bottle consumption.  I know when I am at home I use my fridge dispenser.  Also, without any sporting events, that has to be a huge reduction (thinking about kids soccer and baseball tourneys, pro sports events, etc.)

Yes, but very few businesses are allowing re-usable anything. So, I have gone from using cloth bags at the grocery store, to getting plastic bags. And boy do they give you a lot of plastic grocery bags. We went to our favorite coffee place. They are only using disposable cups, and if you want a refill, they give you a second cup. Restaurants and bars are open, but a lot of them are giving plastic cups for water or beer, etc. Not reusable glasses.

And plates and menus.   No reusable anything.   It's a lot of waste being generated for something there is very little data to suggest actually makes a difference.

[justme]

Honestly I just am not thinking about it. I live alone so it's all be rather isolating, even though in the last month I've seen friends and family. Since march I've only touched another human that wasn't my doctor 3 times. It's closed down most of my hobbies - concerts, sports, bars/clubs, movies, group dinners. I'm single so it's interrupted that and going forward it becomes risk it with a total stranger or continue to stay alone. My job is tied to the schools so depending on how much they do or don't open my job could be in jeopardy and UE in my state is so pitiful that it won't pay for my mortgage in total, and as I said I'm single so there's no one to help. And my one saving grace to deal with all the crap in my life is travel which I have no idea what and where I can do that. 

So yeah, just not thinking about it. 

[giramomma]

Jun 23, 2020 9:35:17 GMT -5 Tiny said:

I have to wonder how our ancestors survived the never ending tedium and  boredom that their lives must have been...  no tv, no radio, no weekly shopping, eating the same food day after day after day.       <-- sarcasm folks... but also alittle serious... 

100 years ago people must have been dropping from boredom. 
Maybe that's why there were so many wars going on around the world- they needed something to do... 

I think our ancestors were too busy to notice how tedious their life is.

My life is filled with tedium between work, school and the kids.

Depending on the when and how many grandchildren we have, I fully expect the rest of my life to be full of the tedium that is children. DH are actually planning that we'll never have a kid break. We're already on year 16 of parenting minors, with 15.5 years left. 

I still have at least 12 years of complete work tedium.

Even my crafts are tedious. Cross stitch, hand sewing, knitting/crochet

I'm not bored. I'm too busy trying to survive to realize that my life is indeed tedious.

[giramomma]

Jun 23, 2020 10:55:07 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Jun 23, 2020 10:52:23 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Yes, but very few businesses are allowing re-usable anything. So, I have gone from using cloth bags at the grocery store, to getting plastic bags. And boy do they give you a lot of plastic grocery bags. We went to our favorite coffee place. They are only using disposable cups, and if you want a refill, they give you a second cup. Restaurants and bars are open, but a lot of them are giving plastic cups for water or beer, etc. Not reusable glasses.

And plates and menus.   No reusable anything.   It's a lot of waste being generated for something there is very little data to suggest actually makes a difference.

One of our favorite restaurants put their menu online. You access it using a QR code. No waste.

[justme]

Jun 23, 2020 10:55:07 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Jun 23, 2020 10:52:23 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Yes, but very few businesses are allowing re-usable anything. So, I have gone from using cloth bags at the grocery store, to getting plastic bags. And boy do they give you a lot of plastic grocery bags. We went to our favorite coffee place. They are only using disposable cups, and if you want a refill, they give you a second cup. Restaurants and bars are open, but a lot of them are giving plastic cups for water or beer, etc. Not reusable glasses.

And plates and menus.   No reusable anything.   It's a lot of waste being generated for something there is very little data to suggest actually makes a difference.

Interesting. I've only been to one restaurant/bar and while the menus were disposable (and they reworked the menus so they're smaller than they were so what used to be on one sheet is shrunk down to half so they have 2 menus per sheet of paper and they're only giving one set of menus per table) but all their cups/cutlery/plates are normal. 

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Most of the take out meals we have gotten are neither plastic or styrofoam, but aluminum with  cardboard top crimped on top of the container.  I think those meals have remained the warmest getting home.

Out plastics have not increased at all.  We rarely buy plastic water bottles.  I picked up an iced tea at Starbucks yesterday after my eye exam and it was the first time I bought a drink out in over 3 months.  Neither TD nor I have bought coffee out (and our home consumption of beans shows that!).

So while there may be more single use containers, cups, etc. there is not near the quantity that there was pre March because people are not out as much.

[weltschmerz]

Jun 23, 2020 11:43:41 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Most of the take out meals we have gotten are neither plastic or styrofoam, but aluminum with  cardboard top crimped on top of the container.  I think those meals have remained the warmest getting home.

Out plastics have not increased at all.  We rarely buy plastic water bottles.  I picked up an iced tea at Starbucks yesterday after my eye exam and it was the first time I bought a drink out in over 3 months.  Neither TD nor I have bought coffee out (and our home consumption of beans shows that!).

So while there may be more single use containers, cups, etc. there is not near the quantity that there was pre March because people are not out as much.

Do you wash then out for recycling, or toss them?

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Jun 23, 2020 12:01:33 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Jun 23, 2020 11:43:41 GMT -5 The Walk of the Penguin Mich said:

Most of the take out meals we have gotten are neither plastic or styrofoam, but aluminum with  cardboard top crimped on top of the container.  I think those meals have remained the warmest getting home.

Out plastics have not increased at all.  We rarely buy plastic water bottles.  I picked up an iced tea at Starbucks yesterday after my eye exam and it was the first time I bought a drink out in over 3 months.  Neither TD nor I have bought coffee out (and our home consumption of beans shows that!).

So while there may be more single use containers, cups, etc. there is not near the quantity that there was pre March because people are not out as much.

Do you wash then out for recycling, or toss them?

Everything gets recycled here.  EVERYTHING.

We were one of the first counties in the US that ditched plastic grocery bags - around 2012 or so.

[Deleted]

Jun 23, 2020 10:34:06 GMT -5 @bamafan1954 said:

Jun 23, 2020 9:39:16 GMT -5 @shastasnewlife said:

I honestly think in times like this, people could learn a few things from those who've lived in poverty. I also think those who live in poverty will actually weather most aspects of this pandemic much better.

When you have no money, you learn to enjoy your living space and free things you can do outdoors. Both are vital right now. You also learn to fill your time with many of the same things others choose to outsource - childcare, home repairs, yard work, etc... You find inexpensive, creative things you enjoy to fill the rest of your time. And, your identity and happiness aren't wrapped up in a fancy job title.  

You are romanticizing poverty.  And that's your right.  But that's not the picture I gathered of your life pre-home sale.  Sure, you were doing the rocks, etc.  But you were worried sick about health care for your son, how to survive with the cartel surrounding you, and keeping your car running.  

You completely missed my point. But, whatever.

[thyme4change]

Jun 23, 2020 11:31:07 GMT -5 justme said:

Jun 23, 2020 10:55:07 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

And plates and menus.   No reusable anything.   It's a lot of waste being generated for something there is very little data to suggest actually makes a difference.

Interesting. I've only been to one restaurant/bar and while the menus were disposable (and they reworked the menus so they're smaller than they were so what used to be on one sheet is shrunk down to half so they have 2 menus per sheet of paper and they're only giving one set of menus per table) but all their cups/cutlery/plates are normal. 

I'm sorry if I indicated that my statement covered 100% of every single restaurant in every city and town in every state. That was not my intention.

[justme]

Jun 23, 2020 13:44:37 GMT -5 thyme4change said:

Jun 23, 2020 11:31:07 GMT -5 justme said:

Interesting. I've only been to one restaurant/bar and while the menus were disposable (and they reworked the menus so they're smaller than they were so what used to be on one sheet is shrunk down to half so they have 2 menus per sheet of paper and they're only giving one set of menus per table) but all their cups/cutlery/plates are normal. 

I'm sorry if I indicated that my statement covered 100% of every single restaurant in every city and town in every state. That was not my intention.

[stillmovingforward]

Two of the places near me use big chalkboards on the wall. Kind of cute

[Deleted]

I really appreciate everyone's perspectives and thoughts.  Part of my challenge is figuring out a way to have a meaningful life at our ages within activity limitations that seem destined to stretch out for years for us.  As some of you may recall, I'm 72 and DH is 80.  That, plus hypertension/cardio issues, means we're high-risk.  No gym, no yoga class, no golf, no movies, no plays, no museum visits, no vacation travel, no church services, no dining out etc. was okay for this year.  But now it appears likely that, depending on who you listen to, that could be 2-5 years.  

A big part of my life has been active civic engagement for more than 8 years but that will have to end too.  As meetings are moving quickly from virtual to real, I can't attend.  If I can't attend meetings and participate in large-scale group activities, I have no value to the organization.  

We are fortunate in one sense; our finances give us many options.  Having grown up in extreme poverty (think homeless shelter, housing project, USDA commodity giveaway food poverty, I am acutely aware of its limitations.  Ironically, our assets bring no comfort in a world where $$ can't buy safety in group settings.  

I am fully aware of the limitations of healthcare in both rural American settings and other nations.  I am also aware of the security risk in Mexico, although that carries less weight for me since we now  live in a very large U.S. city.  DH would favor Germany, but the winters are harsher than I want.  

Tonight we dine out for the first, and possibly last, time since March.  It's unwise physically, but desperately needed mentally.  Besides, I've never had a rabbit empanada with escargot before 

[pulmonarymd]

Jun 23, 2020 15:19:02 GMT -5 @donethat said:

I really appreciate everyone's perspectives and thoughts.  Part of my challenge is figuring out a way to have a meaningful life at our ages within activity limitations that seem destined to stretch out for years for us.  As some of you may recall, I'm 72 and DH is 80.  That, plus hypertension/cardio issues, means we're high-risk.  No gym, no yoga class, no golf, no movies, no plays, no museum visits, no vacation travel, no church services, no dining out etc. was okay for this year.  But now it appears likely that, depending on who you listen to, that could be 2-5 years.  

A big part of my life has been active civic engagement for more than 8 years but that will have to end too.  As meetings are moving quickly from virtual to real, I can't attend.  If I can't attend meetings and participate in large-scale group activities, I have no value to the organization.  

We are fortunate in one sense; our finances give us many options.  Having grown up in extreme poverty (think homeless shelter, housing project, USDA commodity giveaway food poverty, I am acutely aware of its limitations.  Ironically, our assets bring no comfort in a world where $$ can't buy safety in group settings.  

I am fully aware of the limitations of healthcare in both rural American settings and other nations.  I am also aware of the security risk in Mexico, although that carries less weight for me since we now  live in a very large U.S. city.  DH would favor Germany, but the winters are harsher than I want.  

Tonight we dine out for the first, and possibly last, time since March.  It's unwise physically, but desperately needed mentally.  Besides, I've never had a rabbit empanada with escargot before 

The biggest challenge to this is the number of unknowns. For the foreseeable future, life has changed dramatically. But at the moment, countries with better leadership seem to be in a better place, and with restrictions being lifted and less resurgence of cases. Shows how effective leadership and a willing population mattered.

Science may get us out of this sooner. Not only by finding treatments and vaccines, but just by understanding the virus better. If we know its mode of transmission, we can better understand the risks of different activities, for example. Science progresses in fits and starts and sometimes there are dramatic breakthroughs. The one encouraging note on this is that people all over the world are working on this, so the chance of significant findings is dramatically better, but not guaranteed.

! year from now, if we can sacrifice (a big if), I suspect things will be better, even without a vaccine. Not necessarily normal, but better. How much better is up to us. Other countries appear to have better odds though, and if trump is re-elected, then it is 100% dependent on the scientists and a vaccine, given his ineffective leadership on this.