NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 5, 2020 13:50:34 GMT -5
We got an exception but the vets we serve can opt not to go out to farms. Oh no, if my ass has to come into work because we have to be available at all times then your ass shouldn't be able to stay home either. You're just as much a "part of the food production system" as I am.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on May 5, 2020 13:59:02 GMT -5
Life expectancy calculations are based on statistics and large populations of people, not on individuals. Without getting into too much actuarial information...even if we estimate someone is 65 and they should live to 75, that's 10 years, but there's also an expected death rate within that year. So if someone dies at 65 when expected to live to 75, but the total death rate of 65 year olds that year was 6% and 6% was the predicted death rate...then nobody actually died early. Point to me where I said it was "ALL" being the old and sick dying. I said it targets the sick and old...which it absolutely does. So I'll be curious to see after-the-fact what the deaths attributed to COVID were compared to the total US deaths that were expected on the year. I think it will be an interesting picture because of how we know this disproportionately targets the sick and the old...and what % of the COVID deaths we can likely attribute to having been folks who were likely to die within the year anyways, whether it's almost nothing or very high. We already know in my state there were over twice as many deaths in April this year compared to last, and if you add the confirmed number of deaths to the number for last year we were about 500 short. In addition, COVID was the leading cause of death nationally for the month of April, surpassing cancer and heart disease. And that was just for confirmed deaths. It is clear there was a significant increase in mortality last month that was entirely attributable to COVID, and it was not just displacing other causes of death. Ir that continues we will have to see. In addition, although many were over 60, there was a significant proportion who were under 60. The sort of analysis done on life-years lost is common in medicine, and while not perfect, gives a significant amount of data for the burden of disease. Life expectancy decreased due to the opioid epidemic. Would you argue that a significant number of life-years were lost, even if the exact number cannot be elucidated.Personally...yes...I would. Primarily on the basis that "significant" is pretty subjective...and compared to the total life years on the planet...it's rather small IMO. My standard for "significant" is probably much higher than most though. I don't fault people who want to argue it's significant. It's subjective. I'm not sure what any of that has to do with thinking it will be interesting to see how the actual data compares to what we think we're seeing though. We could also see that COVID deaths were labeled at 250,000...but total deaths were 600,000 higher than expected...and we'll get some insights/theories as to why (i.e. did more people die of other diseases while trying to avoid the doctor or because healthcare was busy, were there a ton of undiagnosed deaths that were due to COVID, etc).
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on May 5, 2020 14:05:42 GMT -5
We already know in my state there were over twice as many deaths in April this year compared to last, and if you add the confirmed number of deaths to the number for last year we were about 500 short. In addition, COVID was the leading cause of death nationally for the month of April, surpassing cancer and heart disease. And that was just for confirmed deaths. It is clear there was a significant increase in mortality last month that was entirely attributable to COVID, and it was not just displacing other causes of death. Ir that continues we will have to see. In addition, although many were over 60, there was a significant proportion who were under 60. The sort of analysis done on life-years lost is common in medicine, and while not perfect, gives a significant amount of data for the burden of disease. Life expectancy decreased due to the opioid epidemic. Would you argue that a significant number of life-years were lost, even if the exact number cannot be elucidated.Personally...yes...I would. Primarily on the basis that "significant" is pretty subjective...and compared to the total life years on the planet...it's rather small IMO. My standard for "significant" is probably much higher than most though. I don't fault people who want to argue it's significant. It's subjective. I'm not sure what any of that has to do with thinking it will be interesting to see how the actual data compares to what we think we're seeing though. We could also see that COVID deaths were labeled at 250,000...but total deaths were 600,000 higher than expected...and we'll get some insights/theories as to why (i.e. did more people die of other diseases while trying to avoid the doctor or because healthcare was busy, were there a ton of undiagnosed deaths that were due to COVID, etc). You are being pedantic, if life expectancy decrease, there were quite a few of premature deaths. If you eliminated heart disease completely, life expectancy would increase by a few months, since it predominantly affects old people. The significant improvement in life expectancy in the last 100 years is mostly due to the elimination of childhood infectious disease, and the associated deaths. Life expectancy in 1900 was 47, and about 77 in 2000. SO on a population basis, there wer a significant number of years lost to premature deaths in 1900. TO argue otherwise is ludicrous.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on May 5, 2020 14:10:33 GMT -5
They don’t believe the numbers. They have been conditioned to shout hoax and fake news. I also think that on those rare occasions when reality seeps through the fog of delusion, they believe that the people who get sick and die will be someone else, not them or anyone they know or care about. I also believe some of those loons actually believe that the folks getting sick and dying somehow "deserve" it, sort of like the attitude of similar-minded "good people" during the AIDS crisis. I don't think it is people thinking that people who die of this deserve it. I do think there is a lot of "but that won't happen to me" attitudes. I know in my county, 95% of the cases (last time I looked, it might be slightly different now) all came from one city. This city is 60% Hispanic with a large part of them being illegal (per the articles in our local newspapers, not because I'm just guessing). This city is very much different from the rest of the county. People are packed tight in small apartments, these people travel back and forth to NYC (again, per the local news) and the culture is one where you have several generations living together. Add to that the language barrier and it is a recipe for disaster. I can truly see why someone living in suburbia would really think "it won't happen to me". I know there is a lot of anger towards the people in this city because, even though it is a hot zone, people are not following the stay-at-home mandate. The mayor of that city actually had to put a curfew in to try to enforce the rules.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on May 5, 2020 14:30:43 GMT -5
Personally...yes...I would. Primarily on the basis that "significant" is pretty subjective...and compared to the total life years on the planet...it's rather small IMO. My standard for "significant" is probably much higher than most though. I don't fault people who want to argue it's significant. It's subjective. I'm not sure what any of that has to do with thinking it will be interesting to see how the actual data compares to what we think we're seeing though. We could also see that COVID deaths were labeled at 250,000...but total deaths were 600,000 higher than expected...and we'll get some insights/theories as to why (i.e. did more people die of other diseases while trying to avoid the doctor or because healthcare was busy, were there a ton of undiagnosed deaths that were due to COVID, etc). You are being pedantic, if life expectancy decrease, there were quite a few of premature deaths. If you eliminated heart disease completely, life expectancy would increase by a few months, since it predominantly affects old people. The significant improvement in life expectancy in the last 100 years is mostly due to the elimination of childhood infectious disease, and the associated deaths. Life expectancy in 1900 was 47, and about 77 in 2000. SO on a population basis, there wer a significant number of years lost to premature deaths in 1900. TO argue otherwise is ludicrous. Premature refers to happening prior to the usual time. If the usual time 100 years ago was 47, then dying at 47 wasn't premature. The definition of premature has changed over 100 years, you can't retroactively apply today's metric to a previous period with a different metric and label it premature. By your definition we're all rich and everyone in the past was poor...because let's just ignore inflation and say anyone who only has $x back then was poor because it's super easy to have $x today. It doesn't work that way...someone who lived to 47 in 1900 did not lose life years prematurely, they lived precisely as long as they were expected to. To argue that we should apply today's metric to judge past statistics is insane. You're applying one statistic to a completely different population...that would fail you out of entry level stat.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on May 5, 2020 14:35:08 GMT -5
[quote author=" hoops902 " source="/post/3127787/thread" timestamp="1588707043"][quote author=" pulmonarymd " timestamp="1588705542" source="/post/3127778/thread"]You are being pedantic, if life expectancy decrease, there were quite a few of premature deaths. If you eliminated heart disease completely, life expectancy would increase by a few months, since it predominantly affects old people. The significant improvement in life expectancy in the last 100 years is mostly due to the elimination of childhood infectious disease, and the associated deaths. Life expectancy in 1900 was 47, and about 77 in 2000. SO on a population basis, there wer a significant number of years lost to premature deaths in 1900. TO argue otherwise is ludicrous.[/quote]Premature refers to happening prior to the usual time. If the usual time 100 years ago was 47, then dying at 47 wasn't premature. The definition of premature has changed over 100 years, you can't retroactively apply today's metric to a previous period with a different metric and label it premature. By your definition we're all rich and everyone in the past was poor...because let's just ignore inflation and say anyone who only has $x back then was poor because it's super easy to have $x today. It doesn't work that way...someone who lived to 47 in 1900 did not lose life years prematurely, they lived precisely as long as they were expected to. To argue that we should apply today's metric to judge past statistics is insane. You're applying one statistic to a completely different population...that would fail you out of entry level stat.[/quote] Not what I was saying. A 20 year dying lost 27 years in 1900 and 55 or so now. That is how those studies are done. But continue to argue points I am not making
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on May 5, 2020 14:37:23 GMT -5
[quote author=" Miss Tequila" source="/post/3127780/thread" timestamp="1588705833"][quote timestamp="1588686847" source="/post/3127594/thread" author=" dannylion"]I also think that on those rare occasions when reality seeps through the fog of delusion, they believe that the people who get sick and die will be someone else, not them or anyone they know or care about. I also believe some of those loons actually believe that the folks getting sick and dying somehow "deserve" it, sort of like the attitude of similar-minded "good people" during the AIDS crisis. [/quote]I don't think it is people thinking that people who die of this deserve it. [b]I do think there is a lot of "but that won't happen to me" attitudes.[/b] I know in my county, 95% of the cases (last time I looked, it might be slightly different now) all came from one city. This city is 60% Hispanic with a large part of them being illegal (per the articles in our local newspapers, not because I'm just guessing). This city is very much different from the rest of the county. People are packed tight in small apartments, these people travel back and forth to NYC (again, per the local news) and the culture is one where you have several generations living together. Add to that the language barrier and it is a recipe for disaster. I can truly see why someone living in suburbia would really think "it won't happen to me". I know there is a lot of anger towards the people in this city because, even though it is a hot zone, people are not following the stay-at-home mandate. The mayor of that city actually had to put a curfew in to try to enforce the rules. [/quote]Which is present in most aspects of everyday life. If you thought "today I'm going to die in a car crash" you wouldn't go out driving. If you actively thought of all the bad things that could happen to you...and thought "yeah, that's going to happen to me" you'd be paralyzed by fear constantly. Statistically, this is unlikely to kill you just like most things are individually. Life is pretty well built upon "have a fear of the super dangerous stuff, but don't fear stuff that's unlikely to actually hurt you". Telling people now to basically hunker down like a hermit tends to go against what people have lived their lives on.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on May 5, 2020 14:43:10 GMT -5
I also think that on those rare occasions when reality seeps through the fog of delusion, they believe that the people who get sick and die will be someone else, not them or anyone they know or care about. I also believe some of those loons actually believe that the folks getting sick and dying somehow "deserve" it, sort of like the attitude of similar-minded "good people" during the AIDS crisis. I don't think it is people thinking that people who die of this deserve it. I do think there is a lot of "but that won't happen to me" attitudes. I know in my county, 95% of the cases (last time I looked, it might be slightly different now) all came from one city. This city is 60% Hispanic with a large part of them being illegal (per the articles in our local newspapers, not because I'm just guessing). This city is very much different from the rest of the county. People are packed tight in small apartments, these people travel back and forth to NYC (again, per the local news) and the culture is one where you have several generations living together. Add to that the language barrier and it is a recipe for disaster. I can truly see why someone living in suburbia would really think "it won't happen to me". I know there is a lot of anger towards the people in this city because, even though it is a hot zone, people are not following the stay-at-home mandate. The mayor of that city actually had to put a curfew in to try to enforce the rules. Which is present in most aspects of everyday life. If you thought "today I'm going to die in a car crash" you wouldn't go out driving. If you actively thought of all the bad things that could happen to you...and thought "yeah, that's going to happen to me" you'd be paralyzed by fear constantly. Statistically, this is unlikely to kill you just like most things are individually. Life is pretty well built upon "have a fear of the super dangerous stuff, but don't fear stuff that's unlikely to actually hurt you". Telling people now to basically hunker down like a hermit tends to go against what people have lived their lives on. I’m torn on the issue. We can’t shut down the economy for a year or more. We just can’t. On the other hand, I don’t want to die so I am going to be extra cautious. I will not be going on a cruise, anywhere with large crowds, etc. I am going to work, having meetings, etc. as of now, I have followed the stay-at-home orders and literally go nowhere but work. I’ve cancelled my wedding for August as I know that we shouldn’t have 180 in one location (might not even be legal at that point). But once we move to yellow from red in my county, I will see my friends and family. I haven’t seen my mom in almost 2 months and it makes us all sad. We need to live life but be smart about it.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on May 5, 2020 14:48:20 GMT -5
[quote timestamp="1588707790" author=" Miss Tequila" source="/post/3127798/thread"][quote source="/post/3127792/thread" author=" hoops902" timestamp="1588707443"]Which is present in most aspects of everyday life. If you thought "today I'm going to die in a car crash" you wouldn't go out driving. If you actively thought of all the bad things that could happen to you...and thought "yeah, that's going to happen to me" you'd be paralyzed by fear constantly. Statistically, this is unlikely to kill you just like most things are individually. Life is pretty well built upon "have a fear of the super dangerous stuff, but don't fear stuff that's unlikely to actually hurt you". Telling people now to basically hunker down like a hermit tends to go against what people have lived their lives on.[/quote] I’m torn on the issue. We can’t shut down the economy for a year or more. We just can’t. On the other hand, I don’t want to die so I am going to be extra cautious. I will not be going on a cruise, anywhere with large crowds, etc. I am going to work, having meetings, etc. as of now, I have followed the stay-at-home orders and literally go nowhere but work. I’ve cancelled my wedding for August as I know that we shouldn’t have 180 in one location (might not even be legal at that point). But once we move to yellow from red in my county, I will see my friends and family. I haven’t seen my mom in almost 2 months and it makes us all sad. We need to live life but be smart about it. [/quote]And that's the difference between you making decisions for yourself, vs the government making your decisions for you. I don't think anyone should feel bad about making the decision that is best for them and then being responsible for those decisions.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on May 5, 2020 14:55:26 GMT -5
[quote author=" Miss Tequila" source="/post/3127798/thread" timestamp="1588707790"][quote timestamp="1588707443" source="/post/3127792/thread" author=" hoops902"]Which is present in most aspects of everyday life. If you thought "today I'm going to die in a car crash" you wouldn't go out driving. If you actively thought of all the bad things that could happen to you...and thought "yeah, that's going to happen to me" you'd be paralyzed by fear constantly. Statistically, this is unlikely to kill you just like most things are individually. Life is pretty well built upon "have a fear of the super dangerous stuff, but don't fear stuff that's unlikely to actually hurt you". Telling people now to basically hunker down like a hermit tends to go against what people have lived their lives on.[/quote] I’m torn on the issue. We can’t shut down the economy for a year or more. We just can’t. On the other hand, I don’t want to die so I am going to be extra cautious. I will not be going on a cruise, anywhere with large crowds, etc. I am going to work, having meetings, etc. as of now, I have followed the stay-at-home orders and literally go nowhere but work. I’ve cancelled my wedding for August as I know that we shouldn’t have 180 in one location (might not even be legal at that point). But once we move to yellow from red in my county, I will see my friends and family. I haven’t seen my mom in almost 2 months and it makes us all sad. [b]We need to live life but be smart about it.[/b] [/quote][div]I can't imagine anyone thinking this will not happen to them (though I am sure some do). I believe what most people are wrestling with is their individual risk factor if they do contract it. For young healthy people, I think they know they might contract it but odds are they will not die from it, so they are willing to take more chances than others might. [/div] [div]I don't fault hair dressers, tattoo artist, nail people, etc. for wanting to make a living. I feel like some people think the government should just support everybody for the next 18-24 months and that is irrational. We have to find a "sweet spot" where we can open some things back up but not overwhelm the healthcare system. I don't think opening dental offices, optometrists, or hair and nail salons is going to make the numbers go up exponentially. Personally, I find it more risky to go to the grocery store. I have been to Target twice, but have stayed away from the grocery store all together due to the crowds. Lately, I have gone strictly to grocery delivery. [/div]
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azucena
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Post by azucena on May 5, 2020 14:56:20 GMT -5
[quote source="/post/3127775/thread" timestamp="1588705142" author=" hoops902"][quote source="/post/3127767/thread" timestamp="1588704631" author=" pulmonarymd"]We already know in my state there were over twice as many deaths in April this year compared to last, and if you add the confirmed number of deaths to the number for last year we were about 500 short. In addition, COVID was the leading cause of death nationally for the month of April, surpassing cancer and heart disease. And that was just for confirmed deaths. It is clear there was a significant increase in mortality last month that was entirely attributable to COVID, and it was not just displacing other causes of death. Ir that continues we will have to see. In addition, although many were over 60, there was a significant proportion who were under 60. The sort of analysis done on life-years lost is common in medicine, and while not perfect, gives a significant amount of data for the burden of disease. Life expectancy decreased due to the opioid epidemic.[b] Would you argue that a significant number of life-years were lost, even if the exact number cannot be elucidated.[/b][/quote]Personally...yes...I would. Primarily on the basis that "significant" is pretty subjective...and compared to the total life years on the planet...it's rather small IMO. My standard for "significant" is probably much higher than most though. I don't fault people who want to argue it's significant. It's subjective. I'm not sure what any of that has to do with thinking it will be interesting to see how the actual data compares to what we think we're seeing though. We could also see that COVID deaths were labeled at 250,000...but total deaths were 600,000 higher than expected...and we'll get some insights/theories as to why (i.e. did more people die of other diseases while trying to avoid the doctor or because healthcare was busy, were there a ton of undiagnosed deaths that were due to COVID, etc).[/quote] This article is about a week old at this point but it's about counting the excess deaths and it's pretty staggering. www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-death-toll-total.html?campaign_id=168&emc=edit_NN_p_20200429&instance_id=18058&nl=morning-briefing®i_id=118210194§ion=topNews&segment_id=26195&te=1&user_id=b4583efc06213f659040d20a5de31937[span] [/span]"Total deaths in seven states that have been hard hit by the coronavirus pandemic are nearly 50 percent higher than normal for the five weeks from March 8 through [span] [/span]April 11, according to new death statistics from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention."
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on May 5, 2020 15:03:11 GMT -5
Yes, the excess mortality is quite impressive. Deaths from various causes are relatively stable over the years, with changes in the low single digits being common. So, if you assume that is the case year over year, and you see a significant increase in deaths, a reasonable assumption is that the cause is the new disease. In addition, based on my states experience, we are significantly undercounting the deaths. If deaths increase to 200k as some projections say, a disease that was unknown 6 months ago will be the third leading cause of death in the US. Let that sink in. It has already killed more at this point than the number of people dying from respiratory infections in the entire year
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justme
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Post by justme on May 5, 2020 15:05:36 GMT -5
I think a big problem that will be faced when opening up is humans almost unerring capacity to return to status quo. My state started opening up yesterday and I popped in a store after my doctor's appointment to get some fresh fruit and in my opinion people are already being more lax about social distancing. Hell I had just opened my door to get in my car and this old dude without a mask squeezed in between my door and the car next to me while smoking and just saying excuse me. I waited for someone else to finish looking at the mother's day cards and the same person came back and cut around me within inches to relook at something.
Pair that with humans, or at least Americans, strong belief of invincibility/not me and I just see there social distancing and good hygiene falling to the wayside.
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apple 2
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Post by apple 2 on May 5, 2020 15:13:08 GMT -5
Interesting article.
There are a number of factors that have enabled Canada to perform at a higher level than the United States, including more consistent pre-virus funding for public health agencies and a universal health care system. But one of the most important seems to have been a difference in political leadership
The American response has become infected by partisan politics and shot through with federal incompetence. Meanwhile, Canada’s policies have been efficiently implemented with support from leaders across the political spectrum. The comparison is a case study in how a dysfunctional political system can quite literally cost lives.
The Canadian approach has not been perfect. Its death rate is currently much higher than best-in-class performers like Germany and South Korea; Canadian officials have fallen down, in particular, when it comes to long-term senior care and the indigenous population. But given the interdependence between these two large neighboring economies, Canadians are not only vulnerable as a result of their own government’s choices but also because of their southern neighbors’ failures. “The biggest public health threat to Canada right now is importing cases from the United States"
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on May 5, 2020 17:01:59 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2020 17:24:54 GMT -5
I went to the tire shop, mechanic's shop, and the post office today. I never saw anyone in a mask and no one made any effort to social distance.
The local government announced the DA will not prosecute the businesses opening up against the Governor's mandate and I only saw 2 stores actually closed.
I'm not as concerned that I will get it. If I get it, I get it. But, I worry about my son who works for WalMart and doesn't have any choice but to be around people.
It's a scientific fact that people exposed to 10 people will have a less likely chance of passing it around than people exposed to 1000 people. And, the more people go out and mingle, the higher the exposure risk for everyone else - including all the people who choose not go out except when absolutely necessary and those being forced to work.
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on May 5, 2020 19:48:04 GMT -5
Stopped in Safeway this afternoon and less than half the people had masks on. The people actually working had them on but the majority of customers did not.
Wasn't in there long enough to judge the social distancing but I wore a mask and avoided people.
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grumpyhermit
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Post by grumpyhermit on May 5, 2020 19:57:28 GMT -5
It's unfortunate that masks have become a point of political protest for some people.
Even if you think the stay at home orders should be lifted or lessened, I would hope that everyone could still agree on the need for face coverings and distance in public, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on May 5, 2020 20:47:20 GMT -5
It's unfortunate that masks have become a point of political protest for some people. Even if you think the stay at home orders should be lifted or lessened, I would hope that everyone could still agree on the need for face coverings and distance in public, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I5 is indeed. It would be so easy for the trump administration to encourage mask wearing, by voicing strong support and by modeling. Both trump and pence blew opportunities to do so, thereby undermining the CDC recommendation. So trump supporters say, “Why should I wear one? Trump doesn’t“ Personally, I won’t shop at a store unless they require them. Good for Costco! They are all over this.
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grumpyhermit
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Post by grumpyhermit on May 5, 2020 21:06:55 GMT -5
It's unfortunate that masks have become a point of political protest for some people. Even if you think the stay at home orders should be lifted or lessened, I would hope that everyone could still agree on the need for face coverings and distance in public, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I5 is indeed. It would be so easy for the trump administration to encourage mask wearing, by voicing strong support and by modeling. Both trump and pence blew opportunities to do so, thereby undermining the CDC recommendation. So trump supporters say, “Why should I wear one? Trump doesn’t“ Personally, I won’t shop at a store unless they require them. Good for Costco! They are all over this. It wouldn't even occur to me to go into a store without one (I'm in CT). I will admit that until very recently I hadn't been wearing one while outside on walks. The area I live in is pretty suburban, and I take a route where I can mostly avoid people, and can cross the road if needed. I'm pretty sure I'm still within my state guidelines to go sans mask in these situations (out doors and can maintain a buffer), but I did wear one on my walk yesterday. I'm glad I did, because about partway through a whole string of cars drove by waiving flags, with FREEDOM painted on the side, and honking their horns. They were engaging in a drive by protest of the governor's stay at home order. The last thing I would want to be associated with is that group by being out without a mask. Even if you think the masks are pointless, they certainly don't hurt anything, and there just isn't any valid reason to refuse to wear one.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on May 7, 2020 8:16:16 GMT -5
I think that is why there is a lot of unrest in my area. We have the third highest covid death count by county in the state, yet the hospital is empty. Crickets in the hallways empty. Nobody has been admitted for covid related illness there, not one person. All the cases/deaths have been in one nursing home (that was admittedly decimated with 66 cases and 15 deaths), but they were all DNR and were never admitted to the hospital. The last time I checked our state's stats something like 75% of the covid deaths were in nursing homes, so if they are also not being hospitalized... Maybe our efforts should be more focused on making these places safe than shutting down everything else (mind you, I'm talking about my state and what I see happening here). The staff at the nursing home are now nearly all recovered from Covid and presumably can't catch or transmit to the residents. There haven't been any new cases in my county or the surrounding ones in nearly 2 weeks except for post mortem cases. BTW, I find it interesting that anyone dying in the LTC that tests positive post mortem for Covid are being called Covid deaths. That doesn't seem right to me. The 104 year old woman that passed away two weeks after beating Covid was also tallied a Covid death. I mean maybe if she hadn't had the disease she would have been strong enough to overcome whatever it was that did do her in, but she was also 104.
While this is really post-facto...I'll be interested to see US deaths in 2020 compared to previous years. You can count current COVID cases as "deaths" however really...but the year-end number of total US deaths should paint a more realistic picture of how many of those deaths from Covid were people who were likely to die in the year anyways. So if we find that there were 100,000 more deaths in the US than would be expected in 2020, but we tallied 250,000 COVID deaths...we can surmise that approximately 150,000 were likely to die anyways (rough numbers obviously, but important given we know the target of COVID tends toward those who are not in the best of health to begin with). The number of Covid deaths needs to be increased to include those who were likely to die anyway FROM ACCIDENTS AND MURDER who didn’t die by those causes because they were safe at home.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on May 7, 2020 8:24:56 GMT -5
People die from what they die from. The nonsense that covid deaths need to be adjusted for what people “would have” died from is nonsense. A patient with metastatic cancer who commits suicide died from suicide. Why should covid deaths be any different?
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on May 7, 2020 8:26:50 GMT -5
It's unfortunate that masks have become a point of political protest for some people. Even if you think the stay at home orders should be lifted or lessened, I would hope that everyone could still agree on the need for face coverings and distance in public, but that doesn't seem to be the case. The refusal to wear masks does “out” some people’s political leanings. I have neighbors who come and go all day long (to where?? Every grocery store in my area?? One WFH and the other is a SAHP), have backyard gatherings several times per week, whose kids go off running/rollerblading/biking with friends who arrive in cars, and who NEVER wear masks. Their behavior these past few months explains so much now about our previous interactions with them.
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plugginaway22
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Post by plugginaway22 on May 7, 2020 8:37:55 GMT -5
I work in a medical practice where we had to call 911 this week due to a belligerent patient at the door refusing to mask. He was screaming that we were violating his rights and refusing him medical care, he started videotaping us and screamed at other masked patients waiting patiently for screening at the door.
This is all becoming too much for this 59 year old...early retirement is looking better and better.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on May 7, 2020 8:42:35 GMT -5
I think I heard the other day that 90% of the COVID cases (outside of the nursing homes) were from people who worked out of the home.
So if those people who could work from home could remaining working from home for the foreseeable future, I think that in itself would help.
But, I also agree with LifePartTwo to an extent about there not being another lockdown in the fall. I could see one in areas that get a NYC type situation, but I don't see one outside of that. And to be honest, I'm so incredibly frustrated. A lot of people in this country have done their part, either willingly or unwillingly, and they've lost their jobs and income as a result. And at least I was under the impression that the stay-at-home orders was to give the government a chance to ramp up testing, establishing contract tracing, come up with strategies so we could at least reopen the economy to say 80% of what it was, and reduce the risk of the spread of the virus.
Instead, I think we'll be back to square one by fall. Except this time, most people won't be willing to stay-at-home for weeks on end.
I just pray that some sort of real treatment is found sooner rather than later. Because even after a vaccine is available it could take another year or two to manufacturer enough to get most people vaccinated. If we had a good treatment, then I think we could get back to a new normal more quickly. And remdesivir isn't it.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on May 7, 2020 8:43:26 GMT -5
I work in a medical practice where we had to call 911 this week due to a belligerent patient at the door refusing to mask. He was screaming that we were violating his rights and refusing him medical care, he started videotaping us and screamed at other masked patients waiting patiently for screening at the door. This is all becoming too much for this 59 year old...early retirement is looking better and better. Funny, I didn’t know health care was a right. Hope he was arrested
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plugginaway22
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Post by plugginaway22 on May 7, 2020 8:45:04 GMT -5
He was gone before police arrived but will be served with a no-trespass order.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on May 7, 2020 8:47:59 GMT -5
He was gone before police arrived but will be served with a no-trespass order. And discharged from the practice I hope. I know we have been quite lax tolerating bad behavior, but no more. Follow guidelines or good luck getting care elsewhere. I’m not getting sick because you are an ass
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plugginaway22
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Post by plugginaway22 on May 7, 2020 8:53:06 GMT -5
Yes for sure discharged, and this is a long term patient.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on May 7, 2020 9:04:37 GMT -5
I work in a medical practice where we had to call 911 this week due to a belligerent patient at the door refusing to mask. He was screaming that we were violating his rights and refusing him medical care, he started videotaping us and screamed at other masked patients waiting patiently for screening at the door. This is all becoming too much for this 59 year old...early retirement is looking better and better. Sorry to hear that. There are crazy entitled people everywhere though. There is one doctor who comes to the facility without a mask. A door delivery guy ploughed into the lobby area probably less than 3 to 4 feet of me without a mask. That I did not understand. As a hybrid medical facility that is half subacute, you'd have to be an idiot to assume the air is safe. While medical professionals are wearing masks, it is the exception, not sadly common practice that patients coming in have masks on. We have admissions come through all hours of the day. I personally would not be stupid enough to assume there is nothing in the air I am walking through given you will generally be following the path of emergency personnel and ambulance crews, ride companies if you come in. Plus, you have many of the younger contract nurses and CNAs lowering or taking off masks in the lobby instead of waiting until they got outside. People wearing the gowns and even the large plastic aprons get overheated so they are often sweating at the mouth and other places. That guy will probably never figure out where he got the virus, if he does, because he does not pay attention.
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