jelloshots4all
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Post by jelloshots4all on May 7, 2020 9:20:28 GMT -5
I work in a medical practice where we had to call 911 this week due to a belligerent patient at the door refusing to mask. He was screaming that we were violating his rights and refusing him medical care, he started videotaping us and screamed at other masked patients waiting patiently for screening at the door. This is all becoming too much for this 59 year old...early retirement is looking better and better. Funny, I didn’t know health care was a right. Hope he was arrested He's probably the same type of guy who walks into Walmart in the summer without a shirt on, even with a no shoes, no shirt, no service posted. Claiming it is his "right".
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on May 7, 2020 9:24:30 GMT -5
Funny, I didn’t know health care was a right. Hope he was arrested He's probably the same type of guy who walks into Walmart in the summer without a shirt on, even with a no shoes, no shirt, no service posted. Claiming it is his "right". I'm going to assume he's on ACA/Obamacare too. Because I can be an ass like that sometimes.
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oped
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Post by oped on May 7, 2020 9:24:35 GMT -5
The last excess numbers I saw were already 37K more... above and beyond the COVID count. We are very much undercounting. We are likely already well over 100K.
I read this week... in the NATIONAL REVIEW mind you... that if flu were counted like we are currently counting COVID, REQUIRED positive test... that annual counts would be in the 3-15K range... not 30-60K... because flu deaths are extrapolated from data, as this will have to be when and if it is finally 'done'.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on May 7, 2020 9:32:15 GMT -5
I think I was just assuming that the numbers would be adjusted once this was 'over'. Stats always seem to be adjusted as we discover new/different things we want out of the data. For example, I work with the Payroll unit for my local FD. I originally created like 4 codes to tease out COVID data. We're up to something like 15 now and I just created a new one this morning as Payroll realized we need one code split to accurately track how we're paying out for a subset of absences.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on May 7, 2020 9:33:11 GMT -5
People die from what they die from. The nonsense that covid deaths need to be adjusted for what people “would have” died from is nonsense. A patient with metastatic cancer who commits suicide died from suicide. Why should covid deaths be any different? I suspect our differences in opinion might be how the numbers are being used. There was a confusing mix of projections and facts in Hoops’ post. The phrase “would have died anyways” was used which is more of a projection than the fact you reference. I was pointing out that the number of people who were projected to die of preventable causes (accidents, and to some extent murder and suicide) should be less this year because many of those people stayed safe at home. And the subset of those people who die but die from Covid-19 and not preventable causes need to be included in the Covid-19 projection. Long story short: projections for the leading causes of death this year are going to be way off.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on May 7, 2020 9:40:20 GMT -5
He's probably the same type of guy who walks into Walmart in the summer without a shirt on, even with a no shoes, no shirt, no service posted. Claiming it is his "right". I'm going to assume he's on ACA/Obamacare too. Because I can be an ass like that sometimes. If he's going into a regular medical facility not one catering to the low end, I think that's a bad guess. He may be an idiot, but let's not diss ACA just because the man exists. TY.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on May 7, 2020 9:44:35 GMT -5
I'm going to assume he's on ACA/Obamacare too. Because I can be an ass like that sometimes. If he's going into a regular medical facility not one catering to the low end, I think that's a bad guess. He may be an idiot, but let's not diss ACA just because the man exists. TY. I'm not dissing ACA. At least not intentionally. I'm just assuming this guy is a GOP asshole who thinks that Obamacare shouldn't be a right but that him using ACA is.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2020 9:50:19 GMT -5
But, I also agree with LifePartTwo to an extent about there not being another lockdown in the fall. I could see one in areas that get a NYC type situation, but I don't see one outside of that. And to be honest, I'm so incredibly frustrated. A lot of people in this country have done their part, either willingly or unwillingly, and they've lost their jobs and income as a result. And at least I was under the impression that the stay-at-home orders was to give the government a chance to ramp up testing, establishing contract tracing, come up with strategies so we could at least reopen the economy to say 80% of what it was, and reduce the risk of the spread of the virus. Instead, I think we'll be back to square one by fall. Except this time, most people won't be willing to stay-at-home for weeks on end.
I just pray that some sort of real treatment is found sooner rather than later. Because even after a vaccine is available it could take another year or two to manufacturer enough to get most people vaccinated. If we had a good treatment, then I think we could get back to a new normal more quickly. And remdesivir isn't it. Thing is, the number of deaths in the US is still climbing every single day. It will soon be over 3K per day, and that's largely before all the re-opening. Right now, it feels like we are in a race to see how high we can get that number. And, all of the staying at home will have been completely pointless.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on May 7, 2020 9:54:36 GMT -5
I also think that on those rare occasions when reality seeps through the fog of delusion, they believe that the people who get sick and die will be someone else, not them or anyone they know or care about. I also believe some of those loons actually believe that the folks getting sick and dying somehow "deserve" it, sort of like the attitude of similar-minded "good people" during the AIDS crisis. I don't think it is people thinking that people who die of this deserve it. I do think there is a lot of "but that won't happen to me" attitudes. I know in my county, 95% of the cases (last time I looked, it might be slightly different now) all came from one city. This city is 60% Hispanic with a large part of them being illegal (per the articles in our local newspapers, not because I'm just guessing). This city is very much different from the rest of the county. People are packed tight in small apartments, these people travel back and forth to NYC (again, per the local news) and the culture is one where you have several generations living together. Add to that the language barrier and it is a recipe for disaster. I can truly see why someone living in suburbia would really think "it won't happen to me". I know there is a lot of anger towards the people in this city because, even though it is a hot zone, people are not following the stay-at-home mandate. The mayor of that city actually had to put a curfew in to try to enforce the rules. My in-laws watch the news in Spanish. They seem to be just as up to date on what is going on in the country as anyone else I know. Granted they are bilingual, but I imagine most of those multi generation families you are talking about include citizens and non-citizens and people who are fully bilingual and some who only understand English, but are not confident speaking it, and some who are dependent on others to translate. I would point to the issue being the Economics of needing to go to work, and as you indicated, people living in denser housing.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on May 7, 2020 9:55:19 GMT -5
If he's going into a regular medical facility not one catering to the low end, I think that's a bad guess. He may be an idiot, but let's not diss ACA just because the man exists. TY. I'm not dissing ACA. At least not intentionally. I'm just assuming this guy is a GOP asshole who thinks that Obamacare shouldn't be a right but that him using ACA is. Do you assume the guy works half time or less then to even qualify for ACA? Because in benevolent NJ that's where you need to be or less to even qualify for ACA. If the guy is a longtime customer, his odds on being in ACA are low. Saying that about him unfortunately in my mind disses ACA more than him. Its just another thought put into people's heads that only assholes use ACA. And that's bad, especially when nothing in her story suggests this guy makes so little he can qualify for ACA.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on May 7, 2020 10:07:36 GMT -5
He's probably the same type of guy who walks into Walmart in the summer without a shirt on, even with a no shoes, no shirt, no service posted. Claiming it is his "right". I'm going to assume he's on ACA/Obamacare too. Because I can be an ass like that sometimes. Now Beth you really don't understand this stuff do you? No way this guy would be on Obamacare! That is bad sh*t as trump keeps telling us. He is on the ACA which is far superior. Everyone knows that except for those special snowflake Dems --- MAGA 'Murica!!!
eta: I have actually heard people spout this nonsense!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2020 10:13:39 GMT -5
As with food stamps, public housing, and all the other programs people like to hate on, most people on "Obamacare" work for a living. Yet, this country believes they still deserve shitty care.
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mollyanna58
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Post by mollyanna58 on May 7, 2020 10:23:18 GMT -5
I work in a medical practice where we had to call 911 this week due to a belligerent patient at the door refusing to mask. He was screaming that we were violating his rights and refusing him medical care, he started videotaping us and screamed at other masked patients waiting patiently for screening at the door. This is all becoming too much for this 59 year old...early retirement is looking better and better. Funny, I didn’t know health care was a right. Hope he was arrested The guy was an ass. However, health care should be a right.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on May 7, 2020 10:40:04 GMT -5
People die from what they die from. The nonsense that covid deaths need to be adjusted for what people “would have” died from is nonsense. A patient with metastatic cancer who commits suicide died from suicide. Why should covid deaths be any different? Because anyone who looks at suicide via depression/mental health vs suicide via someone who is likely to die anyways and is choosing to end their life on their own terms is a level 1 thinker. Just like if I get into a horrific car accident with my guts flowing out of me and I decide to slit my throat rather than bleed out. I died BECAUSE I was in a horrible car accident. People do die from what they die from, but the meaning derived from it is far more complex than just the simple and most direct thing that led to their death.
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on May 7, 2020 11:03:27 GMT -5
I don't really blame people for getting antsy and wanting to re-open the economy a bit. When this thing first happened, what we were told was we needed to lock down to flatten the curve and allow time for hospitals to plan. Originally it was 3 weeks, then it was 6 weeks, now it's going to be 10 weeks of lockdown (at least in my state). The gov of IL comes out with a plan that says we're in Phase 2 of a 5 phase plan and the economy won't fully re-open until a vaccine is developed (no more than 50 people in one place).
I see these things on facebook about nurses being overworked, but I have family that work in the largest hospitals in Chicago and they are saying they are "going back to normal" in the sense that previous COVID floors are now back to their original function. If I ask them, they basically say that it's just a normal day for them.
It just seems really silly to me. You can go on a golf course in IL, but no driving ranges, no carts,no pull carts, and no groups larger than 2 people? Wouldn't it make more sense to wipe down the golf course carts and wash the range balls? You have people walking into grocery stores getting carts that are touched by who knows how many people, touching stuff all over the store, etc.
I know people will say "Grocery stores are essential", but you have all of these people out there whose job is essential to them. These laws just seem so ridiculous to most people. Ban large scale gatherings over 50 people and make people wear masks, I don't know why we're so locked down.
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jerseygirl
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Post by jerseygirl on May 7, 2020 11:17:43 GMT -5
New data from NY. 66% of new cases were people staying at home not using public transportation, 46% retired 37% unemployed (don’t add up maybe some were both?) and not from care facilities Cuomo was surprised as he thought more would be essential workers, and from nursing homes So, is staying home really helping? Were people answering stay at home but going out without masks, washing hands enough?
Yesterday in nj and nyc there were incidents involving police trying to stop people who weren’t social distancing. InNJ a group that had been reported for fighting and then not distancing attacked the 2 police punching them and tackling to ground, trying to take weapons. Others stepped in and stopped fight Thus is crazy, in nyc the police are supposed to stop people not distancing but not people drinking on street, jumping turnstiles in subway, peeing on street etc All the progress that Giuliani made by stopping these small things leading to decreased crime is over. So many more homeless also Not good at all
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on May 7, 2020 11:22:13 GMT -5
I don't really blame people for getting antsy and wanting to re-open the economy a bit. When this thing first happened, what we were told was we needed to lock down to flatten the curve and allow time for hospitals to plan. Originally it was 3 weeks, then it was 6 weeks, now it's going to be 10 weeks of lockdown (at least in my state). The gov of IL comes out with a plan that says we're in Phase 2 of a 5 phase plan and the economy won't fully re-open until a vaccine is developed (no more than 50 people in one place). I see these things on facebook about nurses being overworked, but I have family that work in the largest hospitals in Chicago and they are saying they are "going back to normal" in the sense that previous COVID floors are now back to their original function. If I ask them, they basically say that it's just a normal day for them. It just seems really silly to me. You can go on a golf course in IL, but no driving ranges, no carts,no pull carts, and no groups larger than 2 people? Wouldn't it make more sense to wipe down the golf course carts and wash the range balls? You have people walking into grocery stores getting carts that are touched by who knows how many people, touching stuff all over the store, etc. I know people will say "Grocery stores are essential", but you have all of these people out there whose job is essential to them. These laws just seem so ridiculous to most people. Ban large scale gatherings over 50 people and make people wear masks, I don't know why we're so locked down. I could have posted pretty much the exact same thing. This is week 8 of our stay in place order. When we went into it we were told it was to flatten the curve and not overwhelm healthcare which 99% of people seemed to be on board with. I've heard from multiple people who work in healthcare or have family members that do and the hospitals locally are anything but overwhelmed right now matter of fact some have been cutting hours. Our governor saw pictures from the local beaches that were taken with zoom lenses that made it look like people were close together but aerial shots showed that wasn't the case and any who weren't observing social distancing got a visit from the cops and/or lifeguards. Without even calling the leaders of the cities the governor went on the news and said the beaches were getting shut down. The cities have implemented new requirements limiting beach goers to recreational activities only so they're open back up but making a decision based on pictures without at least calling city leaders first seems like a major overreach. Our county of over 3M people has 3,000 cases in it with fewer than 70 deaths a quarter of which are unfortunately in skilled nursing facilities.
Most people realize masks, social distancing and no crowded events like concerts or sporting events will be the new normal but why we haven't started opening some places up is the question. I think the majority are getting antsy and past ready to start opening up slowly but there's now some people who seem to act like the point of going into a lock down was to stay in one until there's a vaccine. Yesterday the governor said to expect depression era levels of unemployment in the state so that further begs the question - what are we waiting for to get some people back to work.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on May 7, 2020 11:22:15 GMT -5
ryan, I am glad for your family members, but I doubt their experience is universal even in Illinois. Its likely wave one is over, but there will be more. The skilled side of my facility still has a COVID unit and while we are releasing some recovered people it feels far from over to me. It is still far from normal where I work. We have issues hospitals don't in part because we aren't a big multi-story facility for major medical care. We constantly get people popping by demanding to see their loved ones through the window, dropping off food, clothes, etc. and often showing up at the worst times. I hate when they drop into the lobby and refuse to leave until their demands are met. Very stressful.
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oped
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Post by oped on May 7, 2020 11:28:16 GMT -5
The issue is that there was no effort made by the administration to build up PPE and testing capacity which would have allowed us to reopen effectively. They wasted another fucking month doing nothing buy emitting sound bites.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on May 7, 2020 11:33:32 GMT -5
Funny, I didn’t know health care was a right. Hope he was arrested The guy was an ass. However, health care should be a right. It should be a qualified right, just like all rights in our society e.g. you should be able to practice any religion you choose, except those that involve human sacrifice.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on May 7, 2020 11:38:20 GMT -5
The issue is that there was no effort made by the administration to build up PPE and testing capacity which would have allowed us to reopen effectively. They wasted another fucking month doing nothing buy emitting sound bites. And that's because the head of the administration refuses to admit anything that doesn't sound good. So he ignores people who say there isn't enough PPE and testing and only listens to the people who have enough. Nursing homes and Assisted Living facilities are probably still in a world of hurt except the lucky ones. Some retail employees have OK protection and others have virtually nothing.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on May 7, 2020 11:44:27 GMT -5
The issue is that there was no effort made by the administration to build up PPE and testing capacity which would have allowed us to reopen effectively. They wasted another fucking month doing nothing buy emitting sound bites. Flattening the curve may be something that was achieved in some areas. But anyone thinking this through for more than 10 seconds knows that this is just the first step in the journey. It never meant that the disease would disappear (if you need a visual for this play with a ball of playdoh and make it into a snake) but it was, as oped implied to get to a level where hospitals/doctors can handle the caseloads. Stock up on depleted supplies and minimize the death toll.
Without an effective treatment and preventative medicine (vaccine) we can't "open up" the way most of us would like to. There I a reason California has relatively few deaths and it is not because the virus is sight-seeing rather than infecting us.
Our elected leaders have not just been aggressive with the SIP measures but they have been, and still are, working hard to build up the PPE and tracking protocols needed until we can actually treat this illness.
Unfortunately, here too are there are idiots who can't see the difference between civil rights and a virus that doesn't care until it bites them in the butt, but by then it will be too late. I just try not to get taken down as well by them in the process.
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on May 7, 2020 11:56:35 GMT -5
The issue is that there was no effort made by the administration to build up PPE and testing capacity which would have allowed us to reopen effectively. They wasted another fucking month doing nothing buy emitting sound bites. Flattening the curve may be something that was achieved in some areas. But anyone thinking this through for more than 10 seconds knows that this is just the first step in the journey. It never meant that the disease would disappear (if you need a visual for this play with a ball of playdoh and make it into a snake) but it was, as oped implied to get to a level where hospitals/doctors can handle the caseloads. Stock up on depleted supplies and minimize the death toll.
Without an effective treatment and preventative medicine (vaccine) we can't "open up" the way most of us would like to. There I a reason California has relatively few deaths and it is not because the virus is sight-seeing rather than infecting us.
Our elected leaders have not just been aggressive with the SIP measures but they have been, and still are, working hard to build up the PPE and tracking protocols needed until we can actually treat this illness.
Unfortunately, here too are there are idiots who can't see the difference between civil rights and a virus that doesn't care until it bites them in the butt, but by then it will be too late. I just try not to get taken down as well by them in the process.
Nobody said it's over. It's not either/or i.e. full lockdown/full re-open, there is something in-between. Why can't a restaurant or a retail shop or a golf course DO what a grocery store does? Require masks, limit amount of people, and sanitize. Home Depot can remain open because in case someone has a plumbing emergency, nevermind the fact that most people are in there buying paint, top soil, and Scott's weed and feed. Meanwhile, the governor of IL is scolding people for non-essential travel while his wife goes down to their home in FL. The mayor of Chicago is telling people to stay home, while she goes to the beauty salon to get a haircut.
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on May 7, 2020 11:59:06 GMT -5
Funny, I didn’t know health care was a right. Hope he was arrested The guy was an ass. However, health care should be a right. I agree, but that is not what conservatives think
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on May 7, 2020 12:01:34 GMT -5
The guy was an ass. However, health care should be a right. I agree, but that is not what conservatives think Isn't that a contridiction? I though conservatives didn't want to pay for "health care for all".... I thought conservatives think that healthcare is a right for those who can pay for it. If you can't pay alot - you don't get alot -- but if you could pay alot you desreve to not pay alot for alot. You have a "right" to what you can afford. Kind of like you need to be able to show your "I have alot of money" credentials so you don't have to pay alot for the services. Kind of like banking - if you have alot of money - you don't pay fees. But if you don't have money - you pay fees.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on May 7, 2020 12:04:08 GMT -5
The issue is that there was no effort made by the administration to build up PPE and testing capacity which would have allowed us to reopen effectively. They wasted another fucking month doing nothing buy emitting sound bites. Flattening the curve may be something that was achieved in some areas. But anyone thinking this through for more than 10 seconds knows that this is just the first step in the journey. It never meant that the disease would disappear (if you need a visual for this play with a ball of playdoh and make it into a snake) but it was, as oped implied to get to a level where hospitals/doctors can handle the caseloads. Stock up on depleted supplies and minimize the death toll.
Without an effective treatment and preventative medicine (vaccine) we can't "open up" the way most of us would like to. There I a reason California has relatively few deaths and it is not because the virus is sight-seeing rather than infecting us.
Our elected leaders have not just been aggressive with the SIP measures but they have been, and still are, working hard to build up the PPE and tracking protocols needed until we can actually treat this illness.
Unfortunately, here too are there are idiots who can't see the difference between civil rights and a virus that doesn't care until it bites them in the butt, but by then it will be too late. I just try not to get taken down as well by them in the process.
SIP and flattening the curve were put in place because we had no idea how many millions had been exposed to the virus at that point. As others have said, with sufficient and reliable testing and tracking we can move forward. But, regardless of what the President says, the testing is NOT there for everyone.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 7, 2020 12:08:45 GMT -5
I was thinking the other night about 9/11 and the Patriot Act. I remember Dark posting something about how if people really knew what was in it it would make their hair curl.
I remember how much people justified to me that we had to have the Patriot Act in place because we need to be protected against terrorists and that the threat of terrorism was worth giving up some of our privacy.
But now we can't get people to wear a mask and refuse to let their cell phones be used for contact tracing like in SK. It is their God given right not to wear a mask and the government needs to respect their privacy.
This pandemic will kill more Americas that terrorism ever has. I would like to sit here and claim that it is because we learned our lesson from the Patriot Act but did we REALLY? Or do we as human beings have difficulty properly assessing threats? In particular Americans with our values that put the "rugged individual" above society's welfare?
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on May 7, 2020 12:26:33 GMT -5
People die from what they die from. The nonsense that covid deaths need to be adjusted for what people “would have” died from is nonsense. A patient with metastatic cancer who commits suicide died from suicide. Why should covid deaths be any different? Because anyone who looks at suicide via depression/mental health vs suicide via someone who is likely to die anyways and is choosing to end their life on their own terms is a level 1 thinker. Just like if I get into a horrific car accident with my guts flowing out of me and I decide to slit my throat rather than bleed out. I died BECAUSE I was in a horrible car accident. People do die from what they die from, but the meaning derived from it is far more complex than just the simple and most direct thing that led to their death. You are such a deep thinker. The cause of death is the cause of death, you do not adjust the numbers down because you think you should. There are unexplained deaths, and if the fit the case definition, you can adjust upwards, and if on further review they don’t, then remove them. We then analyze the deaths for risk factors to make someone more likely to get sick and die. Most infectious diseases affect the old, young, and sick. We do not adjust the number downward based on your arbitrary criteria. That’s how medicine does it. No matter how many paragraphs and posts you make to argue differently
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pulmonarymd
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Post by pulmonarymd on May 7, 2020 12:39:26 GMT -5
The guy was an ass. However, health care should be a right. I agree, but that is not what conservatives think Sorry, conservatives do not think there is a right to healthcare, guess I wasn’t clear
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on May 7, 2020 13:03:15 GMT -5
I was thinking the other night about 9/11 and the Patriot Act. I remember Dark posting something about how if people really knew what was in it it would make their hair curl. I remember how much people justified to me that we had to have the Patriot Act in place because we need to be protected against terrorists and that the threat of terrorism was worth giving up some of our privacy. But now we can't get people to wear a mask and refuse to let their cell phones be used for contact tracing like in SK. It is their God given right not to wear a mask and the government needs to respect their privacy. This pandemic will kill more Americas that terrorism ever has. I would like to sit here and claim that it is because we learned our lesson from the Patriot Act but did we REALLY? Or do we as human beings have difficulty properly assessing threats? In particular Americans with our values that put the "rugged individual" above society's welfare? People don't trust gov't or the news because they don't have a reason to do so. The image of the newscaster floating along in a boat while people walk in 2" water behind her is all you need to know about these people. 1) Newsrooms are trying to get a story 2) Doctors are erring on the side of caution because you can't be blamed for doing that 3) Politicians can always justify their position using whatever data backs their decision. The US public knows this and it's no wonder that there are protests. There is no question that transmissions rates will be lower if everyone stays inside, but what are you going to do that for 18 months?
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