for those of you in higher education

[Deleted]

So, this two week delay is causing a mass exodus to apartments. At least that's what appears to be happening from the Facebook parent's page, but it's hard to get a handle on the exact count from all the posts.  Many of the apartment complexes are filling up and a hotel on campus is opening up for students...it's actually pretty tempting because it's about as close to dorm life as you can get.  Actually better.  Everyone has a private bath and the rooms are fully furnished and nice.  They're giving half off meals in the restaurant which probably is comparable to the cost of a meal plan.

I don't know what to advise DS. The freshman are the ones being hurt the most by shutting down the dorms.  Most students move off campus sophomore year after they are comfortable with the campus and the city and have made friends to room with.  Meanwhile the freshman that are stressed out enough in a normal year have to acclimate to college life without actually being there.  I'd be ok with this if they could just live on campus starting as sophomores if this year is shot, but they don't have enough housing for that and the freshman are the only ones guaranteed a spot, so they go from living at home to off-campus apartment not knowing anyone.  I'm seeing why students are just jumping into that right now! 

I'm holding out hope that so many cancel housing in this next few days that they reconsider opening as they won't be so full...even though the same amount of students will still be there as so many moved to off campus.  I wish they'd at least let us do the drop and go move in we had scheduled for this weekend.  I'd be ok with risking having to go back at some point in time to move stuff out without ever moving into the dorms if it avoids moving in during the week with classes going or moving in in Minneapolis in January if it's spring semester only. 

[ners]

The students moved in over 4 days instead of the usual 2 days.  Today was the only day the weather did not cooperate.   Welcome activities are being shuffled around due the rain.  The activities were scaled back this year.


At our all hands on deck meeting the message was we are opening and everyone must due what it takes to keep us open.  This means students have class on labor day and staff is expected to work.

Classes are hybrid.  Students attend one day and are on line the other. 


 

[Deleted]

Well, another Big 10 is crumbling.   Northwestern is not allowing Freshman or Sophomores on campus for Fall.  They will not be charged room and board and get a 10% reduction in tuition. 

Our school's president just announced last week she's going to sit back and watch what happens with the other Big 10's...

[giramomma]

The Big 10 is also considering having a football season, starting thanksgiving weekend.

 www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/bigten/2020/08/28/big-ten-college-football-season-could-start-thanksgiving-weekend/5654578002/

I'm betting there's going to be VERY strong pressure to get freshman and sophomores back on campus if they decide to have games...

Here's the roster nusports.com/sports/football/roster

There's 28 juniors and seniors on a team of 70+. That's not enough to play the game..

 

[Deleted]

How hard would it be to just bring back the football players though?  Ours were already on campus in early August practicing before the decision was made to postpone the season. 

Plus, they're just talking about starting Thanksgiving weekend instead of January, so just a 6 week or so bump up if it happens which is what?  A week or two prior to Fall term being over for them?  Freshman and Sophomores right now are supposed to be able to attend starting with the January term.

[oped]

Am I the only one thinking next term will be worse? I originally assumed I’d be letting daughter ‘play house’ in the fall because they were likely to be home after Christmas...

[Deleted]

I think the hope is that by next term there is extensive rapid testing available. 

[giramomma]

Well, our university only has 15 million or so to spend on testing/contract tracing. I hope that testing is cheap.

I think universities are going to have to deal with a poop storm when it comes to somehow making student athletes more worthy of being on campus than say, STEM majors.  I mean, we all know that, but the university does at least try to keep the optics that no one student population is overtly favored over another.

Plus, I live in a state where folks sue. I could absolutely see some students suing the university if football players come back but others don't.  No offense, but I don't want to be furloghed more because the university has extra legal expenses to add into budget that is already quite bad.

[Deleted]

You really think people would lose their shit over 30 students coming back to play football?  They'd still be taking their classes online like everyone else, and it's not like they don't have exceptions already for allowing people to live on campus.  International students, students with no other living options, jobs on campus, etc.  At the U all the students that chose apartments are moved (or moving) in as scheduled because their contract started a week before the announcement to delay and they won't be required to leave if they decide not to open the dorms either. 

If your concern is people are sue happy, it's just as much a risk of that happening if they let everyone back and a kid dies of covid.

[giramomma]

Aug 29, 2020 7:49:36 GMT -5 oped said:

Am I the only one thinking next term will be worse? I originally assumed I’d be letting daughter ‘play house’ in the fall because they were likely to be home after Christmas...

I find this curious. I lived with DH for 4 years before we were married, 2.5 years before we were engaged. I was completely insulted when my MIL said the same thing when DH moved in. Because to me it was a signal that even after a year of DH and I dating..and seeing her regularly, she STILL had no idea who I was as a person.

I did ask my folks if they thought I was playing house. And they were like "hell no."

Mostly, it was a purely and economic arrangement. Living with my husband prior to marriage in no way duplicated living with him while we were preparing for marriage, or after marriage. (Seriously, running to goodwill to pick out the least junky replacement pot or some extra forks together are NOT the same as registering for something you liked and even matched!.)

When we first lived together there were 5-6 of us total, in the house. Doing things communally was quite  rare event, actually.  No one had the time. The one exception was grocery shopping. That we did communally, because DH had the car. Otherwise, I even sometimes walked to the laundromat rather than waiting on DH's schedule to get a ride.

[giramomma]

Aug 29, 2020 10:59:32 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

You really think people would lose their shit over 30 students coming back to play football? 

Yes. People lose their shit over everything here, and as a result, sue.

I didn't realize there have been like a DOZEN cases brought up against gov't because of mandetory mask wearing. Most of have been dismissed. Right now, the AG is submitting responses due to two different cases against the county health department for ordering all schooling for 3-12 grade to be done virtually in my county.

There's plenty of out of state kids that come from money. If you can afford to send your kid to out of state school and give them a 40-50K car to drive while they are at school, I'm betting there's deep enough pockets to hire a lawyer to sue if you don't like something. And though I do live in lala land, there are still plenty of students that align with conservative ideology right now.

[giramomma]

I also think that the university is protecting themselves agaist getting sued if a kid catches covid. What do you think all these "pledges" are for that students have to agree to?

I mean, if a student agrees that they will not go to house parties and mask up, but it's found that they went to a house party and got covid...I don't think the university can be held liable for that.

[Deleted]

Well, no worries then since your school has invited everyone back. 

[oped]

Aug 29, 2020 10:59:35 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Aug 29, 2020 7:49:36 GMT -5 oped said:

Am I the only one thinking next term will be worse? I originally assumed I’d be letting daughter ‘play house’ in the fall because they were likely to be home after Christmas...

I find this curious. I lived with DH for 4 years before we were married, 2.5 years before we were engaged. I was completely insulted when my MIL said the same thing when DH moved in. Because to me it was a signal that even after a year of DH and I dating..and seeing her regularly, she STILL had no idea who I was as a person.

I did ask my folks if they thought I was playing house. And they were like "hell no."

Mostly, it was a purely and economic arrangement. Living with my husband prior to marriage in no way duplicated living with him while we were preparing for marriage, or after marriage. (Seriously, running to goodwill to pick out the least junky replacement pot or some extra forks together are NOT the same as registering for something you liked and even matched!.)

When we first lived together there were 5-6 of us total, in the house. Doing things communally was quite  rare event, actually.  No one had the time. The one exception was grocery shopping. That we did communally, because DH had the car. Otherwise, I even sometimes walked to the laundromat rather than waiting on DH's schedule to get a ride.

Were yours and his parents still paying for most everything at the time? 

But honestly it wasn't really about relationship stuff... yes she and her boyfriend live together with two other roomates. They also have a girlfriend who doesn't live with them. Believe me, if you have modern non traditional kiddos... you pretty much stay out of relationships as much as possible. Just smile and nod and be happy if everyone is happy. 

But what seemed to interest her most about going back to school in general this year was having her own (albeit shared) apartment... shopping for chicken accessories, buying bookshelves at yard sales... etc. Setting up a 'house' of her own, cooking in her own kitchen, etc. and that was what I was referencing. 

[haapai]

<abbr>deleted by embarrassed author
</abbr>

[oped]

No reason to be embarrassed. You were on the right track 😊

[TheOtherMe]

On the Colorado sports forum, the question has been brought up that if athletes are allowed to stay on campus and no one else is, will that be seen as an extra benefit by the NCAA and the athletes will be ineligible. 

Same question if bubbles are created for athletes.  The Pac-12 is rumored to be discussing bubbles for basketball.  

[Opti]

Aug 28, 2020 20:22:58 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Well, another Big 10 is crumbling.   Northwestern is not allowing Freshman or Sophomores on campus for Fall.  They will not be charged room and board and get a 10% reduction in tuition. 

Our school's president just announced last week she's going to sit back and watch what happens with the other Big 10's...

I wouldn't consider that crumbling. Every school has to think about their exposure and risk. Some will end up being more cautious than needed and the opposite pole is those who won't be cautious enough. Northwestern is in Evanston Illinois. Illinois is number 6 in total number of Covid cases and their current daily case curve only looks marginally better than the earlier peak. 

But I understand the frustration. A huge part of the college experience is living on campus, not just darting into classes like a commuter college. 

[The Walk of the Penguin Mich]

Aug 29, 2020 14:13:52 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

On the Colorado sports forum, the question has been brought up that if athletes are allowed to stay on campus and no one else is, will that be seen as an extra benefit by the NCAA and the athletes will be ineligible. 

Same question if bubbles are created for athletes.  The Pac-12 is rumored to be discussing bubbles for basketball.  

Trying to create a bubble around student athletes sounds the an exercise for failure.  Right now, professional athletes whose paycheck is dependent upon this have been skipping out.  There are many more repercussions available to hand out for professional team owners than there are for college athletic departments.

[Deleted]

Here's a novel idea... how about we control the pandemic and then worry about schools and sports? Naw... /smh

[Opti]

Aug 29, 2020 15:04:24 GMT -5 @shastasnewlife said:

Here's a novel idea... how about we control the pandemic and then worry about schools and sports? Naw... /smh

It sounds logical, but sports are big money at the college level and some of these college athletes hope for pro careers.

Found some nice data points for 2018 football programs
footballscoop.com/news/the-highest-grossing-football-programs-in-college-football-are/

[Deleted]

Aug 29, 2020 15:28:16 GMT -5 Opti said:

Aug 29, 2020 15:04:24 GMT -5 @shastasnewlife said:

Here's a novel idea... how about we control the pandemic and then worry about schools and sports? Naw... /smh

It sounds logical, but sports are big money at the college level and some of these college athletes hope for pro careers.

Found some nice data points for 2018 football programs
footballscoop.com/news/the-highest-grossing-football-programs-in-college-football-are/

And how many millions of people work in higher ed and associated industries that depend on the colleges?  No college students, no income for them.  

[TheOtherMe]

The money is the reason colleges and universities are trying desperately to survive.  College towns also need the schools to survive.

[Deleted]

The NEA now has a database of all of the school COVID cases.


app.smartsheet.com/b/publish?EQBCT=00a2d3fbe4184e75b06f392fc66dca13



Looking for a snapshot of coronavirus outbreaks in U.S. schools? The National Education Association has just launched a tracker of cases in public K-12 schools.

The tracker is broken down by state and shows schools and counties with known cases and suspected cases and deaths, as well as whether those infected were students or staff. It also includes links to the local news reports so users know where the virus data comes from.

The NEA tracker builds on the volunteer efforts of a Kansas theater teacher Alisha Morris. In early August, just ahead of the new school year, Morris was looking for data about coronavirus cases in U.S. schools. She could find local news reports about positive cases at individual schools across the country but nothing that gave her a cohesive picture of how the virus was spreading in schools.


www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/08/28/906263926/how-many-coronavirus-cases-are-happening-in-schools-this-tracker-keeps-count?utm_medium=social&utm_term=nprnews&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=npr

[haapai]

There's an interesting side story that may explain some of why MSU pretty much closed the dorms, asked students living off campus to stay home if it was safer for them, and put almost all (perhaps all) undergraduate classes on line.  The wastewater of the city of East Lansing was being tested for the genetic traces of COVID-19 by scientists affiliated with MSU and using some of their equipment.  They were able to detect an increase in the amount of genetic material specific to COVID-19 several days before the health department had clinical results indicating that they had a cluster. 

www.mlive.com/public-interest/2020/08/how-michigan-scientists-are-using-beach-testing-tools-to-find-covid-19-infections.html

The cluster was announced by the health department in late June, during the deadest of dead times for the town, and now has 198 cases associated with it. 

I'd say that between seeing how fast something could spread when the town was dead and figuring out that their own employees could detect a cluster long before the health department (which put them in an interesting position negligence-wise), they wisely decided not to keep the experiment running. 

You can disagree with my analysis of why MSU seemed to pull the plug early and still become a wastewater disease detection nerd.  The tool is pretty powerful. 

[Deleted]

haapai - It wouldn't let me read the article, but testing wastewater is becoming a lot more common.  University of Arizona claims they caught an outbreak before it happened by testing sewage from individual dorms. 


www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/how-university-arizona-used-no-2-solve-its-no-1-n1238756

[haapai]

Aug 30, 2020 13:40:59 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

haapai - It wouldn't let me read the article, but testing wastewater is becoming a lot more common.  University of Arizona claims they caught an outbreak before it happened by testing sewage from individual dorms. 


www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/how-university-arizona-used-no-2-solve-its-no-1-n1238756

Ooh!  Thank you!  You've led me to a free article that covers a story that I didn't read because it was either behind a paywall or wanted me to sign up for something. 

I'm not sure why you can't get to the m-live story.  I certainly didn't pay or sign up.  I did, however, find it through a search and there was a lot of haystack-searching and search-defining involved.  I never would have found it if I had not heard something derived from it on a public radio station.  You may be able to defeat the "please pay" wall by simply ignoring the navy field that shows up.

The iteration that I heard on the radio did a better job of explaining the science, the machines, and the dyes involved.  I still can't find it, but there is some explanation out there somewhere of how folks testing wastewater can get something better than a COVID-positive or COVID-negative signal.  They seem to be getting indications of concentration of the virus in a sample that are quite meaningful, quite remarkably so when you consider the dilution. 

[Deleted]

Well, it opens for me now.  Not sure what happened the first time, but it was blocked. 

[haapai]

Aug 30, 2020 14:06:24 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

Well, it opens for me now.  Not sure what happened the first time, but it was blocked. 

I think that it was blocked for me, labeled subscriber-only content, the first time that I stumbled across it.  I have no clue why I was able to get into it later. 

[Deleted]

Aug 30, 2020 14:00:03 GMT -5 haapai said:

Aug 30, 2020 13:40:59 GMT -5 minnesotapaintlady said:

haapai - It wouldn't let me read the article, but testing wastewater is becoming a lot more common.  University of Arizona claims they caught an outbreak before it happened by testing sewage from individual dorms. 


www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/how-university-arizona-used-no-2-solve-its-no-1-n1238756

Ooh!  Thank you!  You've led me to a free article that covers a story that I didn't read because it was either behind a paywall or wanted me to sign up for something. 

I'm not sure why you can't get to the m-live story.  I certainly didn't pay or sign up.  I did, however, find it through a search and there was a lot of haystack-searching and search-defining involved.  I never would have found it if I had not heard something derived from it on a public radio station.  You may be able to defeat the "please pay" wall by simply ignoring the navy field that shows up.

The iteration that I heard on the radio did a better job of explaining the science, the machines, and the dyes involved.  I still can't find it, but there is some explanation out there somewhere of how folks testing wastewater can get something better than a COVID-positive or COVID-negative signal.  They seem to be getting indications of concentration of the virus in a sample that are quite meaningful, quite remarkably so when you consider the dilution. 

Right?

They have to practically swab your brain for a covid test, but they can pull a little wastewater out of a dorm serving hundreds and find a couple asymptomatic students?   It could be a game changer if they could consistently catch them really early doing one test a day.