for those of you in higher education

[formerroomate99]

I predict that these colleges were opening up for in person classes are going to shut down within a month of opening up and still hold onto the dorm fees and full tuition fees. And they won’t give a crap about what will happen to the kids who don’t have family to go home too. This is all about money.

[pulmonarymd]

Aug 25, 2020 14:53:12 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

I predict that these colleges were opening up for in person classes are going to shut down within a month of opening up and still hold onto the dorm fees and full tuition fees. And they won’t give a crap about what will happen to the kids who don’t have family to go home too. This is all about money.

We got a credit for room and board. Other schools did the same. Maybe they kept it in the red atates

ETA. Students who had a hardship reason to stay on campus were allowed to at my sons schools last semester. Despite your beliefs, schools do care about students wellbeing. They are in a tough spot because we refused to do the right thing

[oped]

RIT did refund us partial credits spring term for room and meal plan. We have an apartment lease for this year though and although they are affiliate, they won’t close so we’ll still owe if she ends up coming home.

[giramomma]

Aug 25, 2020 14:53:12 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

I predict that these colleges were opening up for in person classes are going to shut down within a month of opening up and still hold onto the dorm fees and full tuition fees. And they won’t give a crap about what will happen to the kids who don’t have family to go home too. This is all about money.

My university lost 100 million from the shut down in spring, mostly due to refunding parts of dorm and meal plan fees. And because of that, I got furloughed, which is the equivalent of a 3% loss of my salary.  I'm expecting another round of furloughs.

With fall sports being completely canceled, it's translated to a loss of hundreds of millions, not to just the athletic department, but say all the bars, restaurants, hotels,-(held in the private sector) etc that make bank during football season.

Oh, and guess what? My university DID keep housing open for those kids that couldn't go back home this past spring.. Also part of the pandemic planning, my university also has take over two conference centers to use when students need to be quarantined after coming down with Covid and they can't go home.

The average professor salary in my university is 75K. This is clearly where the money grab, is then.  If 75K is too much, what's the salary level that you find palatable? 60K 50K 40K?

Or maybe the money grab is in the fact that my pay, as a support staff, is *only* about 10% less than the private sector. Perhaps you are thinking that university workers should work for 2/3rds whatever private salary dictates? Or maybe that's too much of a money grab?

Or, maybe it's a money grab because now it's now a social need to have administrative folks whose job it is to focus on the underrepresented student population, POC, LGBT students, etc?

[debthaven]

I started this thread (which I've generally kept up with, but not 100%). 

I went back Monday. Spent 6 hours teaching in a mask. I am defiinitely pro-mask, but that was AWFUL. DH spent his afternoon finding me a visor   . Then the school gave me a visor as I was LEAVING for the day. How ironic is that?!

So now when I'm at the front of the class, I just wear a visor. When I get close to the students (ie go around the room to their desks), or when they come up to me at the break or after class, I put on my mask (I wear it around my neck during class.) 

This was a two-session mini intensive (x 2). My university's brief is when you're at the front you can wear just the visor, but when you're circulating amongst the students, you need to wear a mask under the visor, or just the mask. No problem!!! If I'd had the visor on Monday, I could have worn it for 4h, and the mask for just 2h.

I had one student who kept slipping his mask down. The THIRD time I was about to tell him to wear his mask properly, I decided not to bother, I just put him in a corner, far from EVERYONE else. Ironically, he was sitting closest to ME!!! I told him, I'm obviously much older than you, and my husband is too. I said, you're the ONLY person in the class refusing to wear your mask properly, yet you're sitting closest to ME. 

If this was one of my "real" (semester-long) classes, I would have just thrown him out of class (just for that class, not for the semester). Or assigned him permanently to a corner, with no one anywhere near him.

The situation just sucks, for everyone.

[debthaven]

Also, I spent the weekend training to do hybrid classes. In the end the hybrid part never happened, for several reasons:

- I couldn't turn on the computer. Not the hybrid system, the computer. In a classroom I have used DOZENS of times. When I called for tech support, the tech guy couldn't manage to turn the computer on either. He called his boss, who couldn't turn it on either. So they found me another, regular classroom. (They rock!)
- I was told by staff that our hybrid software uses Zoom, that the foreign students I was supposed to teach are Chinese, and that China won't allow Zoom. 

I have no clue whether that is true or not, but the whole thing was IMMENSELY stressful. In the end I was told not to do either of those two mini-seminars in "hybrid" form, and I was switched to a "regular" classroom. 

If this IS true (about China not allowing Zoom) the whole thing is a farce, because the vast majority of our foreign students are indeed Chinese. 

[haapai]

Aug 26, 2020 16:18:17 GMT -5 debthaven said:

I started this thread (which I've generally kept up with, but not 100%). 

I went back Monday. Spent 6 hours teaching in a mask. I am defiinitely pro-mask, but that was AWFUL. DH spent his afternoon finding me a visor   . Then the school gave me a visor as I was LEAVING for the day.  

So now when I'm at the front of the class, I just wear a visor. When I get close to the students (ie go around the room to their desks), or when they come up to me at the break or after class, I put on my mask (I wear it around my neck during class.) 

This was a two-session mini intensive. My university's brief is when you're at the front you can wear just the visor, but when you're circulating amongst the students, you need to wear a mask. No problem!!!

I had one student who kept slipping his mask down. The THIRD time I was about to tell him to wear his mask properly, I didn't bother, I just told him to sit in a corner far from anybody else. Ironically, he was sitting closest to ME!!! I told him, I'm much older than you, and my husband is too. I said, you're the only person in the class refusing to wear your mask properly, yet you're sitting closest to me. 

If this was one of my "real" (semester-long) classes, I would have just thrown him out of class (just for that class, not for the semester). Or assigned him permanently to a corner, with no one anywhere near him.

The situation just sucks, for everyone.

I feel kinda sorry for you.  I've had a whole spring and summer of questionable messaging from my employer (i.e. don't scare the folks that pay our bills / please try to keep things as normal and non-scary and as efficient as possible) and tons of exposure to folks who are not on board with what we should do to protect ourselves and others (both coworkers and folks who pay our bills.)  That means that I've been exposed to a whole lot of nonsense and poor employer responses gradually as opposed to all at once.  You seem to be facing a whole lot of issues that should have/could have been worked out earlier, all at once with no acclimation.  It has to be a shock. 

FWIW, I despise face shields and have quickly adopted very negative ideas of the persons wearing them.  At first I hated the persons wearing them because they obviously had $$$ thrown behind their PPE when I was not allowed to wear even a cloth or paper mask.  Then I started disliking them because of the elitism of the shield.  (That is, wearing a face shield instead of a mask was a signal that the person behind the shield was important enough that they didn't need to wear a mask to protect others.)  Now I look upon anyone wearing a face shield instead of a mask as somewhat of a ventilation-denier.  I'm really sorry that you are in a position to have to confront all of this stuff all at once. 

[debthaven]

I appreciate your thoughts haapai . I live in France and it was a huge mess aboout the masks in March/April ... initially the gov't said we didn't need them because there weren't enough for medical staff. I kept trying to order some anyway, my DH didn't agree and we fought about it, a lot.

I'm so sorry you went through all this stress ... I remember that you are an essential worker.

But please don't hate on the people like me with face shields lol.

[debthaven]

wearing a face shield instead of a mask was a signal that the person behind the shield was important enough that they didn't need to wear a mask to protect others.

I get this. And that's why I wore a mask for 6h on Monday, and why I wear the mask when I get closer to the students.

But at nearly 61, that face shield was life-changing. I DO feel guilty about wearing it for the reasons you mention. But I'm not planning to stop.

All I can do is do my best to make my students feel that it's worth coming to my classes. But it is extremely difficult to teach wearing a mask all day.

 

[TheOtherMe]

The face shields are less costly than a mask.  I bought a package of 4 and have been wearing them with a mask when I want more protection.

The few times I have seen a doctor in person, every one was wearing a mask and face shield.

My surgical nurse niece wears double masks and a face shield during surgery.  She has been exposed several times and has yet to test positive.

We do what we need to do to protect ourselves.

Just like I have a rule that you do not enter my house without wearing a mask.  Sign is on both entry doors.

[debthaven]

The face shields are less costly than a mask.

Here they are 10 times more expensive! DH bought me one, and Job 1 gave me one, so now I have 2.

I'm guessing Job 2 will give me one too, at some point.

ETA: I'm sure it would have been cheaper on Amazon but I was distraught and DH wanted to help.

The other issue is hearing. Obviousy ME wearing a face shield doesn't help me hear my students, but I am finding it VERY difficult to hear the newer, shyer students with their masks.

 

[haapai]

Please do not let my expressions of frustration disturb you too much.  I'm venting here.  I also know too well how easy it is to become out of touch with either the medical or the social side of this epidemic.  I took some time off work twice in the spring and summer and upon return, found the workplace pretty baffling.  Safety measures that had been sacrosanct when I left (like hitting hard surfaces with a sanitizer every two hours) had either been abandoned without comment or continued despite everything that I had been reading and absorbing during my break. 

Attitudes toward mask usage and distancing were similarly unpredictable and quite unsettling to return to.  After a break in early August, I fully expected to return to a workplace that paid a lot of attention to ventilation and possibly held meetings outside.  I was terribly disappointed that the only change seemed to be some signage in employee-only areas that tried to encourage employees to wear masks over both their mouths and noses.  (I loved see the signs, but they seemed to have absolutely no effect on the behavior of employees and vendors who were present in the store prior to the arrival of the daytime big cheese.  More disturbingly, I saw quite a few co-workers make choices regarding masking and distancing that really didn't make a lick of sense unless they were deliberately kissing up to a he-who-matters.  The night manager once told me, leadiingly, that he didn't know anyone who had the bug and that he knew an awful lot of people.  Consequently, while he was in charge, mask etiquette and social distancing was more than lax.  The second that employees sensed that his boss might be in the store, masks stored around necks got pulled up and folks who had pretended to be unable to get their masks to stay up over their noses suddenly had no problems getting them to stay there. 

[TheOtherMe]

Iowa's positive rate for today is 19.8%.



Some schools are finally being given permission to go online only until things slow down.



At today's press conference bars, taverns, breweries and night clubs are closed in Black Hawk, Dallas, Johnson, Linn, Polk and Story counties. Polk is where Des Moines is located. University of Iowa is in Johnson County and Iowa State is in Story County.

Our Iowans will do the right thing governor finally did something, but it reactive rather than proactive.

She will wait until kids or teachers die to do something in the counties where schools are going online or some classes are in quarantine.

ETA:  University if Northern Iowa is in Black Hawk County.  I was hoping covid was not in the meat packing plant again.

[formerroomate99]

Aug 25, 2020 18:18:13 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Aug 25, 2020 14:53:12 GMT -5 formerroomate99 said:

I predict that these colleges were opening up for in person classes are going to shut down within a month of opening up and still hold onto the dorm fees and full tuition fees. And they won’t give a crap about what will happen to the kids who don’t have family to go home too. This is all about money.

My university lost 100 million from the shut down in spring, mostly due to refunding parts of dorm and meal plan fees. And because of that, I got furloughed, which is the equivalent of a 3% loss of my salary.  I'm expecting another round of furloughs.

With fall sports being completely canceled, it's translated to a loss of hundreds of millions, not to just the athletic department, but say all the bars, restaurants, hotels,-(held in the private sector) etc that make bank during football season.

Oh, and guess what? My university DID keep housing open for those kids that couldn't go back home this past spring.. Also part of the pandemic planning, my university also has take over two conference centers to use when students need to be quarantined after coming down with Covid and they can't go home.

The average professor salary in my university is 75K. This is clearly where the money grab, is then.  If 75K is too much, what's the salary level that you find palatable? 60K 50K 40K?

Or maybe the money grab is in the fact that my pay, as a support staff, is *only* about 10% less than the private sector. Perhaps you are thinking that university workers should work for 2/3rds whatever private salary dictates? Or maybe that's too much of a money grab?

Or, maybe it's a money grab because now it's now a social need to have administrative folks whose job it is to focus on the underrepresented student population, POC, LGBT students, etc?

Administrative bloat, not professor salaries, is the primary driver reason for the fact that college costs are increasing at twice the rate of inflation. If you wanna make an argument about how great that is, OK.

[haapai]

Am I the only one thinking that the semester starting in January 2021 will be even more financially devastating than Fall 2020 for colleges and universities, no matter who wins in November?   Paying full price for virtual classes taught by newbies in order to graduate into a horrific job market just doesn't seem smart to me.  If I had a kid in college, I'd be encouraging them to do just about anything but go to college or university right now.  The sticky wicket is their student loans. 

Does anyone here have access to any kind of enrollment figures or know where they are generally published? 

[TheOtherMe]

All I know is that colleges seem to be keeping students around long enough to collect full tuition.  Many changed refund policies so there are no refunds.  Changed time period to drop/add courses.  

[haapai]

Aug 27, 2020 14:32:17 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

All I know is that colleges seem to be keeping students around long enough to collect full tuition.  Many changed refund policies so there are no refunds.  Changed time period to drop/add courses.  

Can you prove this statement?  I'm inclined to believe that you are telling me the truth, but I'd like a few more information sources. 

[Deleted]

Why shouldn't they get full tuition? The students are still given the opportunity to get the credits.  I can see complaining about some of the fees if they are not allowed to live on campus, but tuition?  eh. Unless the classes are horrible online, you're still getting what you paid for.  I've paid for plenty of pretty awful in person classes, but they checked the box for the degree even if I hated them or didn't learn much. 

[oped]

I think Drexel gave a $600 credit for fall semester being online.

[giramomma]

My university is going to start releasing positivity rates publicly now. So far, the positivity rate is 1.6%, with performing 8K tests.

[TheOtherMe]

Aug 27, 2020 14:45:13 GMT -5 haapai said:

Aug 27, 2020 14:32:17 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

All I know is that colleges seem to be keeping students around long enough to collect full tuition.  Many changed refund policies so there are no refunds.  Changed time period to drop/add courses.  

Can you prove this statement?  I'm inclined to believe that you are telling me the truth, but I'd like a few more information sources. 

I have seen it on Twitter but I'm not going to research it.  I don't care about it that much to spend time researching.

[haapai]

Aug 27, 2020 17:59:57 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

Aug 27, 2020 14:45:13 GMT -5 haapai said:

Can you prove this statement?  I'm inclined to believe that you are telling me the truth, but I'd like a few more information sources. 

I have seen it on Twitter but I'm not going to research it.  I don't care about it that much to spend time researching.

If you aren't going to back it up, I ain't gonna back you up. 

I'm just this close to calling your governor a murderess, but when I ask or beg for any kind of third-party corroboration I get nothing.  Forgive me, but as screwed up as Iowa is now, it probably still has a few functioning newspapers, radio stations, or government-run, data-disseminating web sites that you can refer me to. 

Please, for the love of your fellow human beings, who may be being used as pawns, give me something to grab hold of other than the terrifying curves that news organizations are publishing about Iowa.  We can look on from a distance, and sense that something terrible is unfolding there, but you've gotta give us more leads. 

[Deleted]

Aug 27, 2020 14:29:02 GMT -5 haapai said:

Am I the only one thinking that the semester starting in January 2021 will be even more financially devastating than Fall 2020 for colleges and universities, no matter who wins in November?   Paying full price for virtual classes taught by newbies in order to graduate into a horrific job market just doesn't seem smart to me.  If I had a kid in college, I'd be encouraging them to do just about anything but go to college or university right now.  The sticky wicket is their student loans. 

Does anyone here have access to any kind of enrollment figures or know where they are generally published? 

I agree with you on the student loans, but I feel that way all the time pandemic or not.  I'm not sure what to encourage my son to do besides take classes right now?  It's not like they can travel and as you said, not much for jobs right now.  I guess he could go back to McDonalds.  But he can probably do that anyhow if he gets stuck taking classes from home.  Not understanding the classes being taught by newbies comment either, all his classes are taught by professors that have been there a long time.  There are TAs doing the break out discussion sessions, but it's always been like that. 

[TheOtherMe]

The numbers on the database Iowa keeps for covid numbers are ever changing.  The local newspaper (behind a paywall) Dubuque Telegraph Herald is now presenting the numbers they calculate as compared to the number the state calculates.

There are a few bloggers keeping track of numbers and two are working together on cases in schools.

Sara Anne Willette updates throughout the day on FB.

A twitter user who goes by @iowa Covid-19 Tracker keeps track.  Her twitter bio links to her website.

Iowa Public Radio Kate Payne is on Twitter.  She is the one who finally got answers that the data on the Iowa Department of Health was backdating positive cases.  

Sarah Beckman on Twitter works for television station WOI.  She is trying to keep track of school outbreaks.

Behavior neurologist who goes by HyungSubShim is tracking covid and calling out the governor for the way the state website keeps changing.

Megan Srinivas, MD MPH is also keeping track of numbers and calling out the governor.


The blogs are Iowa Starting Line and Bleeding Heartland.

Eli Perencevich MD and Epidemiologist is also keeping track of numbers and giving advice.  He teaches at the Iowa medical school so is mostly concerned with the Iowa City area.  He reminds people constantly to wear a mask.

State Senator Rob Hogg posts his analysis of daily numbers as reported by the state daily (except during the derecho which happened where he lives).  

As for college refund policies, as far as I know, it is not happening in Iowa as no college has sent students home.

I have seen on Twitter other colleges who are sending students home are not giving refunds.  That I can not back up.  I know I have read it.

Our governor is, imo, a murderer.  She never issued a mask mandate.  The closest she has come is yesterday when her proclamation "strongly encouraged" the wearing of masks.

She said "it is what it is"  long before the White House did.

Iowa never had the type of shutdown many other states did.

She fights what cities and counties are doing with trying to implement mask mandates.

She apparently didn't like the return to learn plans the schools submitted because after receiving them, she issued guidelines that to go online, there must be over 15% positive rate in the county and 10% absenteeism.

She has already relented for some schools because the virus is out of control in their counties.

The Des Moines Public  schools have not started school but have sued the governor.  They say they are going online.  We will see who wins that battle.

Waukee applied to go online.  Yesterday, they were approved to go online for 2 weeks because of an outbreak.

[Deleted]

Aug 28, 2020 7:25:02 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

I have seen on Twitter other colleges who are sending students home are not giving refunds.  That I can not back up.  I know I have read it.

Because they're still delivering their classes online.  When Iowa State sent all the students home in March they refunded a prorated amount for room and board.

[TheOtherMe]

That was in March.  I have seen tweets the schools that have sent kids home this fall are not issuing refunds 

Universities and colleges are hurting financially.

[Deleted]

The only college I know of that sent students home after already being moved in was Chapel Hill and they refunded room and board.  Our move in was delayed 2 weeks and they are refunding a prorated amount for that time.  I would think any school that refused to issue refunds for room and board under those circumstances would be taking a big risk because the students could be angry enough to not return.

Now, I HAVE seen schools switch to online only after they were moved in and people want to just move out and get their R&B money back, but aren't being issued refunds, but that's different as they're not being forced to leave.  Anyone that didn't think there was a pretty good shot they'd end up online only at some point was delusional when they moved in.  Most schools are almost entirely online now. 

[haapai]

Aug 28, 2020 7:25:02 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

The numbers on the database Iowa keeps for covid numbers are ever changing.  The local newspaper (behind a paywall) Dubuque Telegraph Herald is now presenting the numbers they calculate as compared to the number the state calculates.

There are a few bloggers keeping track of numbers and two are working together on cases in schools.

Sara Anne Willette updates throughout the day on FB.

A twitter user who goes by @iowa Covid-19 Tracker keeps track.  Her twitter bio links to her website.

Iowa Public Radio Kate Payne is on Twitter.  She is the one who finally got answers that the data on the Iowa Department of Health was backdating positive cases.  

Sarah Beckman on Twitter works for television station WOI.  She is trying to keep track of school outbreaks.

Behavior neurologist who goes by HyungSubShim is tracking covid and calling out the governor for the way the state website keeps changing.

Megan Srinivas, MD MPH is also keeping track of numbers and calling out the governor.


The blogs are Iowa Starting Line and Bleeding Heartland.

Eli Perencevich MD and Epidemiologist is also keeping track of numbers and giving advice.  He teaches at the Iowa medical school so is mostly concerned with the Iowa City area.  He reminds people constantly to wear a mask.

State Senator Rob Hogg posts his analysis of daily numbers as reported by the state daily (except during the derecho which happened where he lives).  

As for college refund policies, as far as I know, it is not happening in Iowa as no college has sent students home.

I have seen on Twitter other colleges who are sending students home are not giving refunds.  That I can not back up.  I know I have read it.

Our governor is, imo, a murderer.  She never issued a mask mandate.  The closest she has come is yesterday when her proclamation "strongly encouraged" the wearing of masks.

She said "it is what it is"  long before the White House did.

Iowa never had the type of shutdown many other states did.

She fights what cities and counties are doing with trying to implement mask mandates.

She apparently didn't like the return to learn plans the schools submitted because after receiving them, she issued guidelines that to go online, there must be over 15% positive rate in the county and 10% absenteeism.

She has already relented for some schools because the virus is out of control in their counties.

The Des Moines Public  schools have not started school but have sued the governor.  They say they are going online.  We will see who wins that battle.

Waukee applied to go online.  Yesterday, they were approved to go online for 2 weeks because of an outbreak.

Excellent post.  You've given me many breadcrumb trails to follow.  (I'm not being sarcastic.)  Everything helps when you are trying to research something that has not been covered well by the national media. 

I don't know how you are going to take thiis but I once started a post calling your guv a murderer.  Then I got cold feet.  All I really had to go on were the statistics-tracking sites and what you had told me, so I reconsidered using such language. 

I'm fairly certain that once I start digging into what's going on in your state, I'll be calling her a murderer too. 

[TheOtherMe]

A poster on the Colorado forum posted today that the parents of students at New Jersey Institute of Technology where his child goes had to sign a waiver that if students are sent home there will be no refund for room and board.  

haapai  I'm sure in other areas of the state, other people are keep track of their numbers.

Dr. Srinivas worked for a community health center in Fort Dodge.  She resigned July 31.  She opted not to renew her contract so she can work in vaccine trials at the University of North Carolina.  She grew up in Fort Dodge.  Since the pandemic started, she had received death threats.  I have no knowledge if that played in to her decision to resign.


www.messengernews.net/news/local-news/2020/08/srinivas-resigns-from-community-health-center/

[oped]

I haven't read anything overt. I know that many parents have been theorizing. I do know there was a lot of guff going around online about UNC seeming to make their decision coinciding right after deadlines on housing decisions.