Addiction and Christmas and problems.

[anciana]

What a roller coaster for your family, Beth! Hope he improves and they’re able to stabilize him.

[Wisconsin Beth]

They are apparently going to start evaluating him this week to see if he's eligible for a liver transplant.  I did tell DH when we first heard that BIL's liver was shot to start thinking about if he'd be willing to donate.  I don't know what his thoughts are on this.  He sees the world in black and white terms. 

ETA - I just did a quick search and it looks like the kids are not eligible to donate due to their ages. 

[gs11rmb]

I didn't know you could donate liver from a live donor!  Do they just take a portion from a healthy donor?

I know this sounds heartless but is there any point in a healthy person undergoing major surgery if BIL is not willing to stop drinking?

[justme]

Yes, you can donate a liver from a live donor as the liver regenerates, but depending on the issue that might not be possible. My uncle recently got a liver transplant due to live cancer and a partial liver transplant was ruled out. 

Honestly, between his not being sober and his continued lack of managing his diabetes he's probably not likely to be put on the list. There's a strict protocol of meds and tests you have to take after a transplant. My uncle has been in and out of the hospital twice already due to labs coming back not ideal and them tweaking his meds. If he's not correctly managing his diabetes they'll likely make the assumption that he wouldn't correctly take care of a new liver. 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I am surprised he's even a candidate given his history. With organs being a precious commodity someone who can't stop drinking or manage his diabetes s6not be on the list.

Are you sure you want DH to undergo surgery to donate if he qualifies? If several near death experiences have not shaken BIL up I doubt a shiny new liver will.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Jul 6, 2020 10:29:14 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I am surprised he's even a candidate given his history. With organs being a precious commodity someone who can't stop drinking or manage his diabetes s6not be on the list.

Are you sure you want DH to undergo surgery to donate if he qualifies? If several near death experiences have not shaken BIL up I doubt a shiny new liver will.

I don't want DH to feel guilty, no matter what he decides and what BIL does. 

My understanding is that they're going to evaluate whether or not BIL is a good candidate.  I agree in that he's not a good candidate but that's not up to me.  That will be up to whomever does whatever tests/assessments. 

[justme]

I believe once they determine you need a transplant everyone goes through the tests and evaluations to see if they'll be put on the list. And if so where on the list you fall. So him being evaluated just means he needs a new liver and isn't indicative of getting on the list.

I think there's way less restrictions for family donation though.

Fyi if he or anyone is a match but doesn't want to donate since it'll prob be a waste (and recovery from donation isn't a walk in the park) but is afraid of family reaction if you say no - there's a way around this. You go through a battery of tests included an intensive psychological aspect of it to ensure you're not being coerced and that you're fully understanding the risks to you. All you have to do is tell them you don't want to do it but are afraid of family reaction and the doctors will just tell everyone that after more testing your not a match. You're not a match because you don't want to donate, but they will 100% not tell anyone anything beyond you're not a match/candidate.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Jul 6, 2020 10:45:48 GMT -5 justme said:

I believe once they determine you need a transplant everyone goes through the tests and evaluations to see if they'll be put on the list. And if so where on the list you fall. So him being evaluated just means he needs a new liver and isn't indicative of getting on the list.

I think there's way less restrictions for family donation though.

Fyi if he or anyone is a match but doesn't want to donate since it'll prob be a waste (and recovery from donation isn't a walk in the park) but is afraid of family reaction if you say no - there's a way around this. You go through a battery of tests included an intensive psychological aspect of it to ensure you're not being coerced and that you're fully understanding the risks to you. All you have to do is tell them you don't want to do it but are afraid of family reaction and the doctors will just tell everyone that after more testing your not a match. You're not a match because you don't want to donate, but they will 100% not tell anyone anything beyond you're not a match/candidate.

That's good to know.  Thank you.  In all honesty, my biggest concern was the kids.  So finding out that they're not eligible due to age was a relief. 

[TheOtherMe]

A friend of mine donated part of her liver to her BFF from high school.  

Everything was fine for several years and then BFF developed breast cancer and it was terminal.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Last night I passed on the info to dh, that the kids can't donate and if he doesn't want to, the doctors will say he's not a match.  He said he'd never thought of the kids as an option.  I'm not sure what it says about me that I did think of it. 

It sounds like BIL is back to being pissed about being in the hospital and is being verbally abusive to L2 and the nursing staff as a result.  The 5 pt/ot/rehab places dh and FIL picked out have no vacancies so they had to pick out another 5 last night. 

[laterbloomer]

Jul 7, 2020 7:58:01 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

Last night I passed on the info to dh, that the kids can't donate and if he doesn't want to, the doctors will say he's not a match.  He said he'd never thought of the kids as an option.  I'm not sure what it says about me that I did think of it. 

It sounds like BIL is back to being pissed about being in the hospital and is being verbally abusive to L2 and the nursing staff as a result.  The 5 pt/ot/rehab places dh and FIL picked out have no vacancies so they had to pick out another 5 last night. 

Asshole.

[Wisconsin Beth]

I know Later.  He really is an asshole. 

[Wisconsin Beth]

Ok, the liver doctor told L2, who told us, that the changes from 'normal' to 'groggy/not making sense' are due to his damaged liver. 

I also told DH that I didn't think BIL was a good candidate for a transplant.  He asked why and I simply said because he doesn't have his diabetes under control.  That was NOT the answer that he was expecting, I'm about 90% sure of that.  I think he was expecting to hear about relapses with drinking, etc.  I mean, I do think he'll relapse, regardless of him getting a new liver or not but I'm only saying that to you guys. 

[anciana]

Jul 8, 2020 8:24:26 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

Ok, the liver doctor told L2, who told us, that the changes from 'normal' to 'groggy/not making sense' are due to his damaged liver. 

I also told DH that I didn't think BIL was a good candidate for a transplant.  He asked why and I simply said because he doesn't have his diabetes under control.  That was NOT the answer that he was expecting, I'm about 90% sure of that.  I think he was expecting to hear about relapses with drinking, etc.  I mean, I do think he'll relapse, regardless of him getting a new liver or not but I'm only saying that to you guys. 

Hang in there, Beth! You're doing what you can for your family, and protecting your husband and children comes first, before your BIL who doesn't seem to care about anything or anyone any more 

[Wisconsin Beth]

BIL's liver numbers are high enough on the score thing that they give him about 3 months, without a transplant.  And we're supposed to go along with whatever he's telling us as it's his liver toxicity. 

[Wisconsin Beth]

BIL has a MELD score of 23.  So he's on monthly evaluations of the scoring. 

I told DH that he needs to figure out how he feels about being a donor because as the only full sibling, they are going to ask him.  I'll help him find info but he gets to make the call.  And I'll listen.  DH has never been a fan of organ donations after his eventual death, so he's not real comfortable with this.  We talked about that years ago because I'm fine with stripping my body of anything useful and he didn't want that.  Admittedly that was years ago but I don't think his views have changed all that much on organ donation. 

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

[justme]

So Google says you must demonstrate 6 months of sobriety for a liver transplant. Not exactly sure how one does that beyond saying so, but if he's been admitted with alcohol in his system they'll take that over what he says.

[Wisconsin Beth]

I think he's got 6 months.  I don't think he'd make 9 though. 

[gs11rmb]

Jul 8, 2020 11:27:08 GMT -5 justme said:

So Google says you must demonstrate 6 months of sobriety for a liver transplant. Not exactly sure how one does that beyond saying so, but if he's been admitted with alcohol in his system they'll take that over what he says.

Is that for family donations or just public ones?

[Wisconsin Beth]

I don't know.  I haven't really started researching donating in depth. 

I did tell DH that livers regenerate and they'd want about 1/2.  He is NOT comfortable with that.  At all.  A sliver, yes.  I don't think he realizes how invasive the surgery is either.  Which will probably be another check mark against donating. 

[justme]

Jul 8, 2020 11:51:11 GMT -5 gs11rmb said:

Jul 8, 2020 11:27:08 GMT -5 justme said:

So Google says you must demonstrate 6 months of sobriety for a liver transplant. Not exactly sure how one does that beyond saying so, but if he's been admitted with alcohol in his system they'll take that over what he says.

Is that for family donations or just public ones?

Google did not specify. But I would think both. Doctors do have some... responsibility... to not put a patient at risk needlessly which I would think cutting someone up and removing part of their liver to put in a patient you know isn't sober would be part of that. Plus I would think they might have to be on medications that might not play nice with alcohol - as so many meds do.

[finnime]

And what you said is also true, that uncontrolled diabetes makes him a very poor prospect for any surgical options, much less the drinking too.

[TheOtherMe]

[crazycat]

Hugs , prayers , and good thoughts to you and yours . Do what is best for you , DH , and your kids . 

[Wisconsin Beth]

DH and I had some discussions this weekend.  As expected, the more he hears about being a live donor, the less he likes the idea.  He's VERY uncomfortable with the idea but, I feel, isn't sure how to say 'no' with the current assumption that his brother will die if he doesn't do it.  I guess I keep on listening and encouraging him to figure out how he feels about this.  He was hoping BIL would be compatible with someone else and I told him flat out that they're going to start with him. 

We got a bunch of updates over the last few days.  BIL is in the hospital, he had NOT been moved to the Transplant floor.  He's next in line, assuming he doesn't get bumped for someone in a more serious condition.  We also learned that the MELD assessment he got is not the only assessment he'll have to pass.  We don't know what those are but I'm assuming they're going to see his full medical history, which includes a couple of ER trips for insanely high blood sugar levels. 

Sat. BIL was lucid again and wanted to go home.  Sun. DH went to see him and BIL was asleep the entire 1.5 hrs.  DH wasn't comfortable waking him up.  L2 reminded us that he was sleeping 20 hrs. a day before all this started but hospital sleep sucks so DH wasn't going to wake him. 

[anciana]

Beth, do you know how long before all of the assessments are done, basically, how long does your DH have time to figure out how he feels about all of this? Do you know if the doctors would approach your DH directly or would they talk to BIL initially and/or the whole family about the options? This is just too much to bear, hang in there, wishing you and your family the strength for what's to come 

[raeoflyte]

It's ok to say no. It sucks, and nothing in the situation is fair to anyone, but it is ok to say no.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Jul 13, 2020 11:04:55 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

It's ok to say no. It sucks, and nothing in the situation is fair to anyone, but it is ok to say no.

Agreed. As someone pointed out your DH can be honest with the doctor about his discomfort and they'll simply come back with he's not a match. His reasons will stay private.

I wouldn't want to do it either. I'd also feel incredibly guilty about it. But surgery comes with risks and to undergo for someone who has shown zero desire to change? When it's possible no matter how small I could leave my kids motherless?

Hopefully the counseling your DH would undergo covers all this. I'm sure he's not the only potential donor to face this situation.

[Wisconsin Beth]

Jul 13, 2020 13:13:32 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Jul 13, 2020 11:04:55 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

It's ok to say no. It sucks, and nothing in the situation is fair to anyone, but it is ok to say no.

Agreed. As someone pointed out your DH can be honest with the doctor about his discomfort and they'll simply come back with he's not a match. His reasons will stay private.

I wouldn't want to do it either. I'd also feel incredibly guilty about it. But surgery comes with risks and to undergo for someone who has shown zero desire to change? When it's possible no matter how small I could leave my kids motherless?

Hopefully the counseling your DH would undergo covers all this. I'm sure he's not the only potential donor to face this situation.

This is pretty much how I feel Drama.  If it were one of my siblings, I'd do it in a heartbeat.  But BIL - hell no.