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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2011 8:49:04 GMT -5
Bfing to get started was crazy expensive. I leaked a lot so I was spending a ton on pads. After 12 weeks though we pretty much just settled into buying the storage bags. Took us awhile to learn, but now we wait for Toys R Us to have a sale on them and buy the giant 100 bag boxes. I haven't bought bags for the past couple of months because Baby's R Us had a sale of buy one get one off on Lansinoh bags and DH cleaned them out. Then I just store it in a little box in our regular fridge freezer, here at work I put it in an insulated lunch box in the fridge (I also use it to carry my lunch). There are A LOT of things you can buy for breastfeeding that you don't really NEED, but can get easily suckered into buying. Even a pump unit can be bought used if you are comfortable with it, you'd have to be doing something pretty wrong to get the actual unit contaminated. I got my unit used for $89, it retails for over $300. All I had to do is get the kit for it which cost about $30. Then you can rent units and some insurance companies even cover them (you have to ask, it isn't always listed). I am lucky and work for an employer that provides free hospital grade pumps for use on campus, all you have to do is buy the kit for the pump. I will not say that breastfeeding is free or nearly free because I found that to be a big fat lie, but it's also not as expensive as it could be either. Become a donor for one of the milk banks and they'll usually send you bags for free. I never really needed any bags actually. He gets the milk in daycare that I pumped the day before. Pretty much everything I've frozen I've given away because I don't want it to go to waste.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Apr 13, 2011 8:57:05 GMT -5
That equates to under $2400/month necessary for living for 2 adults in my area. That's a little over $28K/year. Our baby will add another $240/ month childcare, maybe $20 in groceries/household, $50 in health insurance, and roughly $20/ month health care. So an additional $330/month = $3960/year Do you cut everyone's hair at home then? What do you do for furnishing a house or an appliance breaks? What happens when you need to replace a set of sheets? Do you never travel or do relatives always come and visit you? If everyone visits you, do they also pay for their own groceries? Do you all wear clothes? Even if you buy all your clothes at garage sales, you still have to spend money. Babies are cheap. Wait till your baby eats more and has friends over that want snacks after playing outside for 3 hours. I'm frugal, but I do make sure there are ample snacks in the house for friends. I wouldn't dream of making the neighborhood kids bring their own snacks to our house. Are you going to let your child go to any birthday parties? That costs money as well. We did friend birthday parties starting at age 2, and were invited to parties at age 2. And, trust me, your kid will notice eventually that there were no birthday or christmas presents. I guess your budget is bare bones, but unrealistic. Things will break and need replacing. Even if one gets bed linens, clothing, and cars off craigslist or at goodwill, it still costs money, even if it is less than retail .
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2011 9:01:48 GMT -5
The rules are different in every state. Daycare here can have as many infants as they want as long as there are not more than two at a time. So, if one is a M-W-F, they can have a T-TH as well as a full-time. Our daycare charges the same regardless of age. They're all $20/day, and she prefers older kids that are easier to take to the park so she's not trying to fill infant quotas anyhow.[/quote]
Yes here they can have up to 2 infants at any time. So part time only works if you find someone who wants the other part of your part-time (if everyone wants M-W-F it doesn't work). I don't think any of the non-in-home daycares take part-time, or if they do it's so cost prohibitive it's not worth it. For my current 12 year old it was $275 a week for infant care at a daycare center. I can't believe $20 a day for an infant - I paid more than that in 1993 for an in-home daycare for an infant and I thought that was a bargain.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 13, 2011 9:03:51 GMT -5
Become a donor for one of the milk banks and they'll usually send you bags for freeI could have at the start, I was an oversupplier, but I worked really hard to get my supply down just to what DD needs, so I don't make enough to donate anymore. Then DD will be nine months next week, no way I want to uptick my supply when I am so close to weaning! Free bags are so not worth it!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2011 9:39:53 GMT -5
frugalnurse - you should probably put aside some money for new clothing for yourself after your child is born. When I breastfed I needed new shirts and bras (depending on your size a new nursing bra can run $60). Also you can go back to your former weight but not necessarily your former dimensions because bf'ing keeps your joints a little loose.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2011 9:43:10 GMT -5
frugalnurse - you should probably put aside some money for new clothing for yourself after your child is born. When I breastfed I needed new shirts and bras (depending on your size a new nursing bra can run $60). Also you can go back to your former weight but not necessarily your former dimensions because bf'ing keeps your joints a little loose. not to mention childbirth causes your hips to not be quite as small as they were.
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trytofindbalance
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Post by trytofindbalance on Apr 13, 2011 10:05:49 GMT -5
"One option (low paying, but no daycare costs) would be to look for work within the school district (I'm thinking teacher's aide sort of thing) where she could work the same school hours and have the same days off. While the pay is low, she'd have no daycare costs/issues. I have no idea what her skill sets or interests are, but thought it was worth mentioning. "
gardeninggrandma- yes, that is great advise. Unfortunately there aren't many of those jobs available. She did look into working for a daycare program; however she would have had to work a full day schedule and during the summers, which she just can't do with four little ones. She was just offered a pt job that is very flexible, only about 10hrs a week. The pay isn't great, but it gets her out there and it should help with the bottom line. She is hoping to add more hours next year, when she has more time. I'm still not sure what she's going to do in the summer, because she can't leave the kids home alone even for 10 hours a week and she really can't take them with her.
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qofcc
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Post by qofcc on Apr 13, 2011 10:25:09 GMT -5
She is hoping to add more hours next year, when she has more time. I'm still not sure what she's going to do in the summer, because she can't leave the kids home alone even for 10 hours a week and she really can't take them with her.
She should check into summer recreation programs for her town and all of the neighboring towns. Our town had a crappy program, but one that was half way to work had a great program that was very inexpensive and they allowed people to attend even if they didn't live there (residents got first pick at the available slots, then anyone could sign up).
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Apr 13, 2011 10:44:59 GMT -5
I was thinking the same thing. No infant daycares will do part-time around here. DS's daycare won't do part-time until they are 3 & even then it isn't really a bargain. It is ~$150 for 5 days/wk & ~$125 for 3 days/wk. Each day becomes more expensive as you drop days.
I guess it all comes down to where you live & what works for you. I agree with DQ that pumping & BFing wasn't close to free. And BFing doesn't work out for everyone either. DS decided he was done at 3 months, while DD is still BFing once per day at 7 months. A friend's baby had allergy problems with BFing & regular formula, so they are spending several hundred each month on hypoallergenic formula.
Regardless, for most people a kid adds far more to your yearly expenses than $4K. Just looking at daycare, health insurance, food & diapers, my 2 kids are costing me over $20K/yr. Now that might be above average, but there is absolutely no way I could lower the cost to the levels that some are able to.
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sil
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Post by sil on Apr 13, 2011 12:22:28 GMT -5
Bfing to get started was crazy expensive
This was my experience as well. I will say it was a great motivator to keep up with Bfing though. Once my baby reached 6 months, I finally accepted that we reached a break-even on the costs of Bf vs formula feeding and that any further breastfeeding would finally save us money.
Considering that only about 1/3 of moms breastfeed longer than 6 months, the whole idea of pumping to save money is a myth (though breastfeeding without pumping still saves $)
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2011 12:51:15 GMT -5
Bfing to get started was crazy expensive This was my experience as well. I will say it was a great motivator to keep up with Bfing though. Once my baby reached 6 months, I finally accepted that we reached a break-even on the costs of Bf vs formula feeding and that any further breastfeeding would finally save us money. Considering that only about 1/3 of moms breastfeed longer than 6 months, the whole idea of pumping to save money is a myth (though breastfeeding without pumping still saves $) I still don't get how it's that expensive. All I needed was a pump, a couple bras, and a couple packages of washable nursing pads for the first couple months. I got all of that as shower gifts with baby number one. Baby number two I didn't have to buy anything but freezer bags, but realistically I didn't even NEED those. There's expense involved, but it was less than $400 for two kids and it was mostly gifts. Come to think of it, I didn't even use the pump hardly at all with baby number one either since I was a SAHM. I could have easily got by with a cheap hand pump for the occasional night out bottle.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Apr 13, 2011 12:56:45 GMT -5
Not to nit pick but even if someone could make all their expenses fit that $2400 a month limit that is a net number they need. The article was based on gross salary. Truthfully I think the food amount alone is too low but skipping that. They don't need $28800 a year in that scenario. They need whatever the gross is that after the 401K amount equals $28800 a year which I think is close to $48K a year. And truthfully &48K a year for 2 people isn't really that different from $62K a year for 4 who 2 of which aren't under 5 years old IMO.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 13, 2011 12:57:16 GMT -5
didn't even use the pump hardly at all with baby number one either since I was a SAHM. I could have easily got by with a cheap hand pump for the occasional night out bottle.
You were a SAHM. I work. I needed the pump, storage bottles, something to store my milk in, bottles for daycare. That stuff adds up.
Once I was done with the intial bottling/pump/kit buying and I stopped needing a bazillion nipple pads the costs even out and it's a lot cheaper than formula.
But it isn't free or even remotely close to what I would consider "nearly free" like the books claim.
If I just EBF-ed as a stay at home mom it would pretty much have been free, but if there is working involved there are start up costs so you can maintain your supply while working.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Apr 13, 2011 13:01:28 GMT -5
Bfing to get started was crazy expensive This was my experience as well. I will say it was a great motivator to keep up with Bfing though. Once my baby reached 6 months, I finally accepted that we reached a break-even on the costs of Bf vs formula feeding and that any further breastfeeding would finally save us money. Considering that only about 1/3 of moms breastfeed longer than 6 months, the whole idea of pumping to save money is a myth (though breastfeeding without pumping still saves $) I still don't get how it's that expensive. All I needed was a pump, a couple bras, and a couple packages of washable nursing pads for the first couple months. I got all of that as shower gifts with baby number one. Baby number two I didn't have to buy anything but freezer bags, but realistically I didn't even NEED those. There's expense involved, but it was less than $400 for two kids and it was mostly gifts. Come to think of it, I didn't even use the pump hardly at all with baby number one either since I was a SAHM. I could have easily got by with a cheap hand pump for the occasional night out bottle. If you are working, there is no way a cheap pump will keep your supply up. Even a good inexpensive pump takes longer than a great pump and that is more time away from work (in most cases). I didn't find breastfeeding and pumping as expensive. No it isn't free if you are working, but it is a heck of a lot cheaper than formula. A good pump runs $250 (assume a Medela PISA on sale), milk storage bags (although the last 6 months at work I only used about 5 a week and instead used the bottles I was pumping in). I made it the whole year pumping at work and not counting bottles/storage bottles (since I would have spent more on bottles had we been Formula feeding), it was probably over $500. Then you say a few bras. I have 3 work appropriate nursing bras that run $40 a piece. I love them and glad I have them, but still not free. I'm still nursing twice a day with a 14 month old which certianly has its own benefits and that is at this point free.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2011 13:05:10 GMT -5
didn't even use the pump hardly at all with baby number one either since I was a SAHM. I could have easily got by with a cheap hand pump for the occasional night out bottle.You were a SAHM. I work. I needed the pump, storage bottles, something to store my milk in, bottles for daycare. That stuff adds up. Once I was done with the intial bottling/pump/kit buying and I stopped needing a bazillion nipple pads the costs even out and it's a lot cheaper than formula. But it isn't free or even remotely close to what I would consider "nearly free" like the books claim. If I just EBF-ed as a stay at home mom it would pretty much have been free, but if there is working involved there are start up costs so you can maintain your supply while working. I was a SAHM. That "baby" is almost 9 now. I returned to work in 2005 and had another son last summer, returned to work when he was 12 weeks old and have pumped at work since last Sept. Plan on going until he turns a year in June. Since I had the pump, nursing bras and a few bottles, I needed nothing. Like I said before, I do freeze milk in storage bags, but it's not really necessary to have a huge stash.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2011 13:05:46 GMT -5
Btw, infant day care here is 229/week plus a $40 fee once a year so $11948/year. Personally I have not found anything cheaper. This article uses averages/median expenses, so yes some people may be able to live on less but in certain places it may be too little.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2011 13:08:15 GMT -5
I still don't get how it's that expensive. All I needed was a pump, a couple bras, and a couple packages of washable nursing pads for the first couple months. I got all of that as shower gifts with baby number one. Baby number two I didn't have to buy anything but freezer bags, but realistically I didn't even NEED those. There's expense involved, but it was less than $400 for two kids and it was mostly gifts. Come to think of it, I didn't even use the pump hardly at all with baby number one either since I was a SAHM. I could have easily got by with a cheap hand pump for the occasional night out bottle. If you are working, there is no way a cheap pump will keep your supply up. Even a good inexpensive pump takes longer than a great pump and that is more time away from work (in most cases). I didn't find breastfeeding and pumping as expensive. No it isn't free if you are working, but it is a heck of a lot cheaper than formula. A good pump runs $250 (assume a Medela PISA on sale), milk storage bags (although the last 6 months at work I only used about 5 a week and instead used the bottles I was pumping in). I made it the whole year pumping at work and not counting bottles/storage bottles (since I would have spent more on bottles had we been Formula feeding), it was probably over $500. Then you say a few bras. I have 3 work appropriate nursing bras that run $40 a piece. I love them and glad I have them, but still not free. I'm still nursing twice a day with a 14 month old which certianly has its own benefits and that is at this point free. No, nursing bras aren't "free" but would you not wear any bra if you weren't nursing? BTW, I'm not normally a huge Walmart fan (in fact I loathe the place), but they sell a really nice nursing sports bra for $12. And I'm normally a 36D when not nursing, so they have to be tough.
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Apr 13, 2011 13:12:27 GMT -5
If you are working, there is no way a cheap pump will keep your supply up. Even a good inexpensive pump takes longer than a great pump and that is more time away from work (in most cases). I didn't find breastfeeding and pumping as expensive. No it isn't free if you are working, but it is a heck of a lot cheaper than formula. A good pump runs $250 (assume a Medela PISA on sale), milk storage bags (although the last 6 months at work I only used about 5 a week and instead used the bottles I was pumping in). I made it the whole year pumping at work and not counting bottles/storage bottles (since I would have spent more on bottles had we been Formula feeding), it was probably over $500. Then you say a few bras. I have 3 work appropriate nursing bras that run $40 a piece. I love them and glad I have them, but still not free. I'm still nursing twice a day with a 14 month old which certianly has its own benefits and that is at this point free. I totally agree.... I have 2 kids and went back to work when they were 12 weeks, each time. Medela PIS was a life saver. There is no way I could have pumped quickly and effectively at work AND maintained my supply using a manual hand pump. So yeah....you do have to invest money even to bf if you are a full time working mom. Its so not free, free.
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Apr 13, 2011 13:18:41 GMT -5
I live in a midwest city and our daycare chanrges 235/week till 18 months old. After that it goes down to 200/week for preschoolers. Home daycares may cost you as low as 160/week. But I haven't found anything cheaper than that.
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Apr 13, 2011 16:53:21 GMT -5
didn't even use the pump hardly at all with baby number one either since I was a SAHM. I could have easily got by with a cheap hand pump for the occasional night out bottle.You were a SAHM. I work. I needed the pump, storage bottles, something to store my milk in, bottles for daycare. That stuff adds up. Once I was done with the intial bottling/pump/kit buying and I stopped needing a bazillion nipple pads the costs even out and it's a lot cheaper than formula. But it isn't free or even remotely close to what I would consider "nearly free" like the books claim. If I just EBF-ed as a stay at home mom it would pretty much have been free, but if there is working involved there are start up costs so you can maintain your supply while working. I was a SAHM. That "baby" is almost 9 now. I returned to work in 2005 and had another son last summer, returned to work when he was 12 weeks old and have pumped at work since last Sept. Plan on going until he turns a year in June. Since I had the pump, nursing bras and a few bottles, I needed nothing. Like I said before, I do freeze milk in storage bags, but it's not really necessary to have a huge stash. But that is the point - you already had the stuff & you got lucky & got it as gifts for the previous kid. I didn't get any of that as gifts, so at some point I had to shell out the money. A pump & supply of storage bottles & bags can easily run you $200-$400 depending on the quality of pump & how much storage you need (at one point I had close to 300 oz in the freezer). Considering it cost ~$40 or so a month to formula feed a 6 month old, you need to exclusive BF for 5-10 months to even start seeing a savings. It isn't exactly the money-saver some claim.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2011 7:47:07 GMT -5
I was a SAHM. That "baby" is almost 9 now. I returned to work in 2005 and had another son last summer, returned to work when he was 12 weeks old and have pumped at work since last Sept. Plan on going until he turns a year in June. Since I had the pump, nursing bras and a few bottles, I needed nothing. Like I said before, I do freeze milk in storage bags, but it's not really necessary to have a huge stash. But that is the point - you already had the stuff & you got lucky & got it as gifts for the previous kid. I didn't get any of that as gifts, so at some point I had to shell out the money. A pump & supply of storage bottles & bags can easily run you $200-$400 depending on the quality of pump & how much storage you need (at one point I had close to 300 oz in the freezer). Considering it cost ~$40 or so a month to formula feed a 6 month old, you need to exclusive BF for 5-10 months to even start seeing a savings. It isn't exactly the money-saver some claim. Well, now you're prepared for baby #2! You'll start saving the very first month. BTW, $40/month for formula seems really low. My sister goes through a $25 can every 6 days for her 5 month old.
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Frugal Nurse
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Post by Frugal Nurse on Apr 14, 2011 9:01:45 GMT -5
That equates to under $2400/month necessary for living for 2 adults in my area. That's a little over $28K/year. Our baby will add another $240/ month childcare, maybe $20 in groceries/household, $50 in health insurance, and roughly $20/ month health care. So an additional $330/month = $3960/year Do you cut everyone's hair at home then? What do you do for furnishing a house or an appliance breaks? What happens when you need to replace a set of sheets? Do you never travel or do relatives always come and visit you? If everyone visits you, do they also pay for their own groceries? Do you all wear clothes? Even if you buy all your clothes at garage sales, you still have to spend money. Babies are cheap. Wait till your baby eats more and has friends over that want snacks after playing outside for 3 hours. I'm frugal, but I do make sure there are ample snacks in the house for friends. I wouldn't dream of making the neighborhood kids bring their own snacks to our house. Are you going to let your child go to any birthday parties? That costs money as well. We did friend birthday parties starting at age 2, and were invited to parties at age 2. And, trust me, your kid will notice eventually that there were no birthday or christmas presents. I guess your budget is bare bones, but unrealistic. Things will break and need replacing. Even if one gets bed linens, clothing, and cars off craigslist or at goodwill, it still costs money, even if it is less than retail . You're missing the point. Did you read the original article? It was trying to prove that the least a family of four could live on was $68K/year, and I'm saying that just isn't true. Would it be easy? no Can it be done? yes. Thankfully DH and I make much more than the bare-bones budget I posted, but I was giving an example of how it can be done. If someone were very poor, they wouldn't be worried about haircuts, travel, new clothes or sheets, furniture etc. Poor people are focused on surviving, not getting new couches and impressing others. And communities have a way of helping out their friends who are facing hard times. When I know someone is down on their luck and needs something, I try to find a way to fill that need. My family was very poor when I was a young child, my parents couldn't afford new school clothes for us, so their friends at work would bring them bags of their kids' old clothes for us to wear. And I can get oodles of snack foods free or nearly free with coupons and sales. Your "problems" with my bare-existence budget are not real problems, just inconveniences.
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Frugal Nurse
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Post by Frugal Nurse on Apr 14, 2011 9:08:45 GMT -5
frugalnurse - you should probably put aside some money for new clothing for yourself after your child is born. When I breastfed I needed new shirts and bras (depending on your size a new nursing bra can run $60). Also you can go back to your former weight but not necessarily your former dimensions because bf'ing keeps your joints a little loose. I appreciate the concern, but I do not live on the bare-bones budget I posted. I was just giving an example of how someone living in a LCOL area could make it work on much less than $68K. I have plenty of money stuck back for baby's expenses, and will have plenty of money left over after baby gets here to buy new clothes. I didn't mean for people to think that I live such a meager existence, I was just proving that it can be done. The expenses I posted are real, but our income is much more than that, as I didn't include our fun money, savings, etc because a person does not need those things to survive, they are merely extras. I, personally, would not have tried to conceive a child if we were that low-income.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2011 9:11:00 GMT -5
You're missing the point. Did you read the original article? It was trying to prove that the least a family of four could live on was $68K/year, and I'm saying that just isn't true.
Exactly. Especially if there's a SAHP.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Apr 14, 2011 9:12:14 GMT -5
My problem isn't that some things are incipiences. It is that the numbers you wrote don't add up to someone's gross salary they are the net numbers they would need.
Your numbers were $2400 a month or $28800 a year net. That probably comes out to $40K a year before taxes and ins type stuff that is subtracted automatically from their paycheck. Your example was a couple with no kids. Add in the expenses fr two kids especially for increased housing costs and food alone and your numbers really aren't that different from the article.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2011 9:36:57 GMT -5
My problem isn't that some things are incipiences. It is that the numbers you wrote don't add up to someone's gross salary they are the net numbers they would need. Your numbers were $2400 a month or $28800 a year net. That probably comes out to $40K a year before taxes and ins type stuff that is subtracted automatically from their paycheck. Your example was a couple with no kids. Add in the expenses fr two kids especially for increased housing costs and food alone and your numbers really aren't that different from the article. My $1200 gross income only has $80/pay period taken out for taxes. Insurance is another $115, but if I was single with no kids it would only be $30. A family of 4 making less than 60K isn't going to pay a lot in taxes.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Apr 14, 2011 9:44:42 GMT -5
"A family of 4 making less than 60K isn't going to pay a lot in taxes" There are more than just reglular income taxes taken out of a paycheck. There is also medicaire and SS as well as unemployment and disability. Last I checked the minimum we had removed was 17% for this salary range and that is with 2 kids and no health insurance taken out. It is $62K maybe not but it also isn't anywhere near $29k either. ETA I have a paystub here that is for a gross of $1100 and it has $50 taken out just for NJ taxes.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2011 9:55:53 GMT -5
ETA I have a paystub here that is for a gross of $1100 and it has $50 taken out just for NJ taxes.
My last check.
Gross: $1225.56 Federal: $17.33 SS: $36.12 Medicare: $12.47 MN State: $13.28
There are SOME benefits to being low income. Keeping a higher percentage of your take home is one.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2011 10:56:41 GMT -5
ETA I have a paystub here that is for a gross of $1100 and it has $50 taken out just for NJ taxes. My last check. Gross: $1225.56 Federal: $17.33 SS: $36.12 Medicare: $12.47 MN State: $13.28 There are SOME benefits to being low income. Keeping a higher percentage of your take home is one. You are only having 4% withheld for FICA, which is not common. FICA this year is 5.65% and that is with the 2% reduction put in the last tax deal. Next year I think it goes back up to the same old 7.65%. There aren't many things exempt from FICA (though I know there are a couple).
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Deleted
Joined: May 2, 2024 13:06:26 GMT -5
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2011 11:11:46 GMT -5
ETA I have a paystub here that is for a gross of $1100 and it has $50 taken out just for NJ taxes. My last check. Gross: $1225.56 Federal: $17.33 SS: $36.12 Medicare: $12.47 MN State: $13.28 There are SOME benefits to being low income. Keeping a higher percentage of your take home is one. You are only having 4% withheld for FICA, which is not common. FICA this year is 5.65% and that is with the 2% reduction put in the last tax deal. Next year I think it goes back up to the same old 7.65%. There aren't many things exempt from FICA (though I know there are a couple). I think Flex accounts are exempt, is anyone sure?
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