teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Apr 9, 2011 12:51:11 GMT -5
Regarding the price and availability of after school care: Do teenagers not babysit anymore? Not sure when they would find the time. The number of extra-curricular things my kids are involved in is downright crazy. It is rare for them to get home before 5:30, and at certain times they are just going until 10 or 11 pm. E.g. on Wednesday, DS2 had track practice after school, set-up for NHS induction that evening, had to run out to the radio station in the city for a 5:30 Scholastic Bowl Play-off, rush back to school for the NHS ceremony (mandatory anyway, but he was performing in the quintet before the ceremony began) and stay afterwards to clean up. He also had to skip the Pit rehersal for Seussical since it conflicted. That is not an oddity for us - it is about the norm for any given school night, times 3 (for the MS/HS kids).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2011 13:04:43 GMT -5
Not to mention you are taking on a ton of liability if you have a teenager drive your children anywhere - a lot of afterschool programs pick up your children.
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Apr 9, 2011 13:05:41 GMT -5
Regarding the OP: they are throwing around a lot of nonsense, using phrases like prove a family needs x to survive, and x to keep your head above water. This family of 7 is thriving on $40k a year. No debt, mortgage paid off, oldest in college, second deciding on which college to accept, maxing Roths, 40% DH's pay to 401k, etc.
Just because the costs the article outlines are average, does not mean that every family has to take them on. There is more than one way to organize your life. Consider your options, and do what makes the most sense for you, not the Jones.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Apr 9, 2011 13:11:31 GMT -5
This family of 7 is thriving on $40k a year. No debt, mortgage paid off, oldest in college, second deciding on which college to accept, maxing Roths, 40% DH's pay to 401k, etc. So you put $16,000 into a 401k, $10,000 into a Roth, and meet all your living expenses and taxes with the remaining $14,000? That sounds crazy. Do you guys eat and stuff?
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Apr 9, 2011 13:15:24 GMT -5
Dark, that's 40% of DH's pay in his 401k; I don't have access to one.
With the mortgage paid off, our expenses have fallen quite a bit.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2011 13:27:47 GMT -5
Dark, that's 40% of DH's pay in his 401k; I don't have access to one. With the mortgage paid off, our expenses have fallen quite a bit. Do you add up the money you get back after filing your tax return to that? I mean 40K plus another what? 5-10K or so that is tax free right? that family of 4 making over 68K would not qualify for the EIC since they make too much money.
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Apr 9, 2011 13:41:54 GMT -5
cawiau, that's a good question, and I've asked it on the boards before. The concensus seemed to be that you shouldn't include refunds in reporting what you earn, so that 40k is just what DH and I earned last year. I'm opening myself up to flames, now. We did get another $10k in refunds (fed and state), and that is what I use to fund the Roths.
Dark mentioned it before - perhaps that hypothetical couple might be better off if only one worked and they did not have daycare expenses, at least while the kids are young.
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Sum Dum Gai
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Post by Sum Dum Gai on Apr 9, 2011 13:51:38 GMT -5
No flames from me, I was just curious how you guys were doing it. A total of $50k, and saving 40% of half of the $40k (or thereabouts) instead of all of it, sounds a lot more doable.
Without a mortgage anyway. With a mortgage or rent payment I don't see how it could be done, even in a low cost area. Not for a family of 7 anyway.
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Apr 9, 2011 14:00:36 GMT -5
But Dark, we paid off the mortgage 15 years early, before I went back to work. I.e., family income was ~$35k, refunds more like $3500 then. Of course, no Roths then, and DH was only putting 5 or 10% in the 401k. After the mortgage was paid off, I got DH to up the 401k (in exchange for agreeing to no more summer school teaching for DH).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2011 15:09:30 GMT -5
How much was your mortgage when you first got it?
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TD2K
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Post by TD2K on Apr 9, 2011 17:01:40 GMT -5
I know some people that have a 1k car payment for one car.
I can not imagine paying $1,000 each month on a car loan. No wonder some people have problems making ends meet.
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stats45
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Post by stats45 on Apr 9, 2011 18:43:06 GMT -5
We had a thread about the study last week (I think), and I thought it was pretty well done. I thought the transportation costs were a bit high as well, but a few people pointed out that just gas for two people to get back and forth from work and such can be well over $250 - $300 per month. Combine that with all the rest, and it isn't all that unreasonable.
Still, I think people use the 'safety' thing as an excuse for a newer car that they really need or afford. In the year 2000, was every parent that drove a mini-van an awful parent because they didn't have a time machine to buy the 2006 version? Cars have improved in safety in the last decade, but it isn't like everyone was driving death traps without seatbelts ten years ago.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2011 18:59:49 GMT -5
People can be downright stupid when it comes to cars. My SIL's car broke down and needed $1000 in repairs. Nope, couldn't afford that, so went out and borrowed 15K (plus the 2K they gave her for her car) on a new car. Couldn't pay that $1000, but a 72 month loan at $250/month...no problem.
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stats45
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Post by stats45 on Apr 9, 2011 18:59:57 GMT -5
Tbird, I posted the original methodology on the other thread, but I think the idea was that they lived in an area where costs were at the national average. They didn't assume that they lived in a expense urban area or a LCOL area.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2011 19:15:12 GMT -5
stats, I was addressing the poster claiming they live well on 40k with 5 kids.... not in my city. With a name like stats, I assume you know what an average is......others - not so much. With no mortgage, no debts and no childcare expenses? Doesn't seem that unreasonable.
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stats45
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Post by stats45 on Apr 9, 2011 19:24:12 GMT -5
Sorry tbird! I wasn't paying attention.
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Apr 9, 2011 19:56:09 GMT -5
We are in NY, but not NYC! Relatively LCOL, but high taxes of all sorts.
Our mortgage payment was around $900/month, PITI. Of course, we still have to pay the TI part now.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2011 8:02:05 GMT -5
Hello! I was just craving some money related threads...and yeah, it is getting pretty slow over there.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2011 8:28:15 GMT -5
cawiau, that's a good question, and I've asked it on the boards before. The concensus seemed to be that you shouldn't include refunds in reporting what you earn, so that 40k is just what DH and I earned last year. I'm opening myself up to flames, now. We did get another $10k in refunds (fed and state), and that is what I use to fund the Roths. Dark mentioned it before - perhaps that hypothetical couple might be better off if only one worked and they did not have daycare expenses, at least while the kids are young. I am not going to flame you either , but it is just something to consider. You got 1/4 of your gross income at the beginning of the year and it was tax free. So technically you guys are living off more than 40K
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formerexpat
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Post by formerexpat on Apr 10, 2011 10:28:30 GMT -5
We live on less than $68k in a higher COL area. Most of the figures are exaggerated in this article.
Seems like a lot of people fall into the 2 income trap or don't know how to minimize and control their wants. Cars are an example of where people waste their money most the time.
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trytofindbalance
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Post by trytofindbalance on Apr 12, 2011 12:15:47 GMT -5
I have in laws with a family of 6. BIL makes ok money, probably about $85k a year and SIL doesn't work. I don't have any idea how they are making it. We live in a HCOL area. They don't have a car payment, but both vehicles have seen better days and BIL's car is hanging on by a shoestring...they know they can't even think about taking on any more payments right now. CC's are maxed and they have used their home as an ATM in the past and there are no more re-financing options available to them. By the way, they are not "big spenders". They live a very low cost life style. No vacations, no fancy clothes, no big entertainment costs, no eating out, no movies, two cars without car payments (BIL's car is holding on by a shoestring, but they know they are not in a position to purchase anything right now). My SIL was just telling me how she loves her life (she is an amazing mom and they have a wonderful family life), but as her kids get older and the prices keep going up, she is starting to feel the stress of not having enough income to cover their lifestyle. Her youngest will be in full day school next year and she is looking for a pt job that will allow her the flexibility to be home for the kids when they get home from school. At this point, she really can't work in the summer, because she won't make nearly enough to cover daycare/camp costs for 4 children. It really is quite a dilemma and I don't envy her.
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Gardening Grandma
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Post by Gardening Grandma on Apr 12, 2011 12:23:29 GMT -5
At this point, she really can't work in the summer, because she won't make nearly enough to cover daycare/camp costs for 4 children. It really is quite a dilemma and I don't envy her.
One option (low paying, but no daycare costs) would be to look for work within the school district (I'm thinking teacher's aide sort of thing) where she could work the same school hours and have the same days off. While the pay is low, she'd have no daycare costs/issues. I have no idea what her skill sets or interests are, but thought it was worth mentioning.
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Frugal Nurse
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Post by Frugal Nurse on Apr 12, 2011 15:53:03 GMT -5
So I just did bare-bones numbers for my area and this is what I came up with. I live in Lexington, KY, which is a medium-sized town with a LCOL. It doesn't include savings or fun money, because I just wanted to know what the bare minimum needed was. Here is what I came up with (and the housing cost I used is our actual PITI payment- it it could be cut in half by buying or renting an older, smaller home in a decent area):
Housing- 1187 Gas (for cars)- $150 Electric (in the fall/spring/summer)-$100 (it does go to about $200 for 3 Dec, Jan, Feb) Water- $50 Insurance (on 2 cars and life insurance on both of us)- $117 Food/household items-$200 Health insurance- $50 Retirement Savings (DH's employer matches this 200%)-$ 110 Cable/internet- $88 Phone- $140 Car maintenance/repairs- $100 (that’s liberal) Medical expenses- maybe $20/month when I'm not pregnant. More like $50/month right now. That equates to under $2400/month necessary for living for 2 adults in my area. That's a little over $28K/year. Our baby will add another $240/ month childcare, maybe $20 in groceries/household, $50 in health insurance, and roughly $20/ month health care. So an additional $330/month = $3960/year Grand total with 2 adults and one baby will be= $32,064 after taxes bare bones needed for survival. Not $67k (or whatever the original number was), and I doubt a second child would add another $30K or so/year expenses. Of course, if we add savings and fun money into the mix, it gets more expensive, but I gathered that the article was trying to determine what a just above poverty line existence would cost.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2011 16:00:14 GMT -5
Retirement Savings (DH's employer matches this 200% 200%! Nice!!
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Apr 12, 2011 16:45:27 GMT -5
. Our baby will add another $240/ month childcare, maybe $20 in groceries/household, $50 in health insurance, and roughly $20/ month health care. So an additional $330/month = $3960/year Grand total with 2 adults and one baby will be= $32,064 after taxes bare bones needed for survival. Not $67k (or whatever the original number was), and I doubt a second child would add another $30K or so/year expenses. Of course, if we add savings and fun money into the mix, it gets more expensive, but I gathered that the article was trying to determine what a just above poverty line existence would cost. Is your baby going to have diapers? Clothes? Medical Insurance? Formula? Baby Food? I'm not one of those people that thinks kids need to be super expensive, but diapers alone will run you $50/month. Add another $40 or so for formula (or if you plan on BFing & pumping, money for the pumps, storage, etc). Maybe you have great insurance that doesn't charge you much extra for kids, but mine added about $225/month to add kids to my plan & I pay another $80 for every sick baby visit. Also, as has been discussed $240 for full-time infant childcare is an absolute pipe-dream in 90% of the country. I have cheap care for $150/wk. Just saying, maybe it works for you, but your numbers aren't exactly average.
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Frugal Nurse
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Post by Frugal Nurse on Apr 12, 2011 16:57:02 GMT -5
. Our baby will add another $240/ month childcare, maybe $20 in groceries/household, $50 in health insurance, and roughly $20/ month health care. So an additional $330/month = $3960/year Grand total with 2 adults and one baby will be= $32,064 after taxes bare bones needed for survival. Not $67k (or whatever the original number was), and I doubt a second child would add another $30K or so/year expenses. Of course, if we add savings and fun money into the mix, it gets more expensive, but I gathered that the article was trying to determine what a just above poverty line existence would cost. Is your baby going to have diapers? Clothes? Medical Insurance? Formula? Baby Food? I'm not one of those people that thinks kids need to be super expensive, but diapers alone will run you $50/month. Add another $40 or so for formula (or if you plan on BFing & pumping, money for the pumps, storage, etc). Maybe you have great insurance that doesn't charge you much extra for kids, but mine added about $225/month to add kids to my plan & I pay another $80 for every sick baby visit. Also, as has been discussed $240 for full-time infant childcare is an absolute pipe-dream in 90% of the country. I have cheap care for $150/wk. Just saying, maybe it works for you, but your numbers aren't exactly average. I already have 3 months worth of diapers that I have gotten free/or nearly free through couponing. I plan to continue to do that during the remaining 7 months of my pregnancy. I plan to breast feed, and you're right, I didn't include the cost of a pump, because I was counting regular monthly expenses, and a pump would be a one-time purchase (or, most likely, a baby shower gift from one of our parents). I added the $50 in health insurance. DH and I work at the same same employer and the benefits are very generous. Employees only pay $25/month, and dependents are another $50 or so (depending on how many). I also added the $20/month health care costs to include well-baby co-pays. The child care is a steal, but it is only part time (and we may not even need that, because it looks like I'll be working night shifts at that point- ick). A dear friend's mom runs a daycare from her home and has for 20 years. I have been to the daycare during business hours, and it is wonderful. She has a section of her house as "daycare", and it is baby-safe, lots of learning toys and activities, and full playground in the backyard. She only charges $30/day, and I would only need 2 days/week. You're right though, it is a dream set-up. Most people around here pay $150/week for under one year. And yes, i did these calculations for my area, because people act like it can't be done. It can
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2011 8:20:48 GMT -5
. Our baby will add another $240/ month childcare, maybe $20 in groceries/household, $50 in health insurance, and roughly $20/ month health care. So an additional $330/month = $3960/year Grand total with 2 adults and one baby will be= $32,064 after taxes bare bones needed for survival. Not $67k (or whatever the original number was), and I doubt a second child would add another $30K or so/year expenses. Of course, if we add savings and fun money into the mix, it gets more expensive, but I gathered that the article was trying to determine what a just above poverty line existence would cost. Is your baby going to have diapers? Clothes? Medical Insurance? Formula? Baby Food? I'm not one of those people that thinks kids need to be super expensive, but diapers alone will run you $50/month. Add another $40 or so for formula (or if you plan on BFing & pumping, money for the pumps, storage, etc). Maybe you have great insurance that doesn't charge you much extra for kids, but mine added about $225/month to add kids to my plan & I pay another $80 for every sick baby visit. Also, as has been discussed $240 for full-time infant childcare is an absolute pipe-dream in 90% of the country. I have cheap care for $150/wk. Just saying, maybe it works for you, but your numbers aren't exactly average. Cloth diapers and breastfeed. I've spent zero on formula for two kids, and very little on diapers. First one just used cloth, younger one goes to daycare and has to have disposables there, but I get the Target brand and he only goes through a box every 6 weeks or so at $15. Clothes for kids are ridiculously cheap the first 5 or 6 years since you can get like new stuff from garage sales or thrift stores for pennies on the dollar. Baby food is something they only need for a very short time (if at all if you make your own). My son is 9 months now and won't hardly touch the stuff anymore. He prefers real food.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2011 8:30:36 GMT -5
Is your baby going to have diapers? Clothes? Medical Insurance? Formula? Baby Food? I'm not one of those people that thinks kids need to be super expensive, but diapers alone will run you $50/month. Add another $40 or so for formula (or if you plan on BFing & pumping, money for the pumps, storage, etc). Maybe you have great insurance that doesn't charge you much extra for kids, but mine added about $225/month to add kids to my plan & I pay another $80 for every sick baby visit. Also, as has been discussed $240 for full-time infant childcare is an absolute pipe-dream in 90% of the country. I have cheap care for $150/wk. Just saying, maybe it works for you, but your numbers aren't exactly average. I already have 3 months worth of diapers that I have gotten free/or nearly free through couponing. I plan to continue to do that during the remaining 7 months of my pregnancy. I plan to breast feed, and you're right, I didn't include the cost of a pump, because I was counting regular monthly expenses, and a pump would be a one-time purchase (or, most likely, a baby shower gift from one of our parents). I added the $50 in health insurance. DH and I work at the same same employer and the benefits are very generous. Employees only pay $25/month, and dependents are another $50 or so (depending on how many). I also added the $20/month health care costs to include well-baby co-pays. The child care is a steal, but it is only part time (and we may not even need that, because it looks like I'll be working night shifts at that point- ick). A dear friend's mom runs a daycare from her home and has for 20 years. I have been to the daycare during business hours, and it is wonderful. She has a section of her house as "daycare", and it is baby-safe, lots of learning toys and activities, and full playground in the backyard. She only charges $30/day, and I would only need 2 days/week. You're right though, it is a dream set-up. Most people around here pay $150/week for under one year. And yes, i did these calculations for my area, because people act like it can't be done. It can so she's going to let you take up one of her full time infant slots with only a part time infant and just not get her full income? Where I am, nobody (in-home daycare) is willing to use one of their 2 infant slots (infant is considered up to age 2) on a part-timer (unless the parent is paying the full-time price - which currently is probably $200 a week).
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 13, 2011 8:40:34 GMT -5
Bfing to get started was crazy expensive. I leaked a lot so I was spending a ton on pads. After 12 weeks though we pretty much just settled into buying the storage bags. Took us awhile to learn, but now we wait for Toys R Us to have a sale on them and buy the giant 100 bag boxes. I haven't bought bags for the past couple of months because Baby's R Us had a sale of buy one get one off on Lansinoh bags and DH cleaned them out.
Then I just store it in a little box in our regular fridge freezer, here at work I put it in an insulated lunch box in the fridge (I also use it to carry my lunch).
There are A LOT of things you can buy for breastfeeding that you don't really NEED, but can get easily suckered into buying.
Even a pump unit can be bought used if you are comfortable with it, you'd have to be doing something pretty wrong to get the actual unit contaminated. I got my unit used for $89, it retails for over $300. All I had to do is get the kit for it which cost about $30.
Then you can rent units and some insurance companies even cover them (you have to ask, it isn't always listed). I am lucky and work for an employer that provides free hospital grade pumps for use on campus, all you have to do is buy the kit for the pump.
I will not say that breastfeeding is free or nearly free because I found that to be a big fat lie, but it's also not as expensive as it could be either.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2011 8:41:57 GMT -5
I already have 3 months worth of diapers that I have gotten free/or nearly free through couponing. I plan to continue to do that during the remaining 7 months of my pregnancy. I plan to breast feed, and you're right, I didn't include the cost of a pump, because I was counting regular monthly expenses, and a pump would be a one-time purchase (or, most likely, a baby shower gift from one of our parents). I added the $50 in health insurance. DH and I work at the same same employer and the benefits are very generous. Employees only pay $25/month, and dependents are another $50 or so (depending on how many). I also added the $20/month health care costs to include well-baby co-pays. The child care is a steal, but it is only part time (and we may not even need that, because it looks like I'll be working night shifts at that point- ick). A dear friend's mom runs a daycare from her home and has for 20 years. I have been to the daycare during business hours, and it is wonderful. She has a section of her house as "daycare", and it is baby-safe, lots of learning toys and activities, and full playground in the backyard. She only charges $30/day, and I would only need 2 days/week. You're right though, it is a dream set-up. Most people around here pay $150/week for under one year. And yes, i did these calculations for my area, because people act like it can't be done. It can so she's going to let you take up one of her full time infant slots with only a part time infant and just not get her full income? Where I am, nobody (in-home daycare) is willing to use one of their 2 infant slots (infant is considered up to age 2) on a part-timer (unless the parent is paying the full-time price - which currently is probably $200 a week). The rules are different in every state. Daycare here can have as many infants as they want as long as there are not more than two at a time. So, if one is a M-W-F, they can have a T-TH as well as a full-time. Our daycare charges the same regardless of age. They're all $20/day, and she prefers older kids that are easier to take to the park so she's not trying to fill infant quotas anyhow.
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