weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Mar 14, 2019 18:37:14 GMT -5
The more followers you have, the more people listen to you? That's pathetic.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on Mar 14, 2019 18:52:54 GMT -5
I suppose you're right, since my experience is with NORMAL high schools, ha ha, not the high schools uber rich kids would go to. My point is, other people would have to have known and purposely looked the other way in order for this kind of thing to happen. SATs are normally given at an a central location, not at each high school. No one at a high school would notice that any individual student went somewhere else to take a test. Also there are multiple dates. My kids went to a rich kids private school and took their SAT at one of the public schools. Even in a small city, no one at the school where the SAT was given had any clue who my kids are. They did have to show picture ID though. all of that depends how populated your area is. I took my PSATs and SATs at my HS, with a handful of.kids from other towns that couldn't make their own town's date for sports or whatever. but someone outside those with readily apparent excuses would have stuck out where I was. YMMV.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Mar 14, 2019 19:17:57 GMT -5
My high school didn't give it. I took it the first time at a local university. The second one I took actually where I ended up going to college. My uncle had football tickets and that's the way the schedule fell out. So I scheduled for there.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Mar 14, 2019 19:38:33 GMT -5
She also has a gig with Sephora, and people are suggesting a boycott of there until she and her products are removed.I really don’t see how those kids didn’t know that strings were being pulled on their behalf. Kids are not stupid. I was listening to Kelly Ripa on and she was describing her kid’s admission into college as brutal for everyone. So I wonder exactly where do you stop this? Does Kushner’s contribution to get Jared into Harvard count? How about Trump’s contributions to U Penn for his kids? Legacy admissions? Because a parent got in, does their child deserve to get in? These are not far steps away from the flat out cheating. I just saw on ABC national news that Lori Loughlin was dropped from whatever project she's in now, and her daughter was dropped by Sephora. I saw earlier today that her daughter had been dropped from Sephora, but didn’t realize that Lori Loughlin had been dropped by Hallmark. Not surprised though.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Mar 14, 2019 20:45:43 GMT -5
I just saw on ABC national news that Lori Loughlin was dropped from whatever project she's in now, and her daughter was dropped by Sephora. I saw earlier today that her daughter had been dropped from Sephora, but didn’t realize that Lori Loughlin had been dropped by Hallmark. Not surprised though. Her whole schtick is being the nice one. Coming across as honest is a big part of it. She is going to have career problems for quite a while I think.
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obelisk
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Post by obelisk on Mar 14, 2019 21:32:16 GMT -5
I am sure that there are more Uni entrance consultants to fall. Are the Uni willing to share their investigations or keep quiet for their reputation. I believe all Uni are in major damage control at this time to control the potential fallback within their reputation. The Uni's will not be upfront within their own internal investigation.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Mar 14, 2019 21:46:12 GMT -5
I saw earlier today that her daughter had been dropped from Sephora, but didn’t realize that Lori Loughlin had been dropped by Hallmark. Not surprised though. Her whole schtick is being the nice one. Coming across as honest is a big part of it. She is going to have career problems for quite a while I think. I doubt she’ll be able to recover from this.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 14, 2019 23:28:27 GMT -5
If someone robs a bank and gives you a bag of cash, you don't get to keep it because you didn't commit the actual crime. While I get that the kids themselves are not necessarily responsible for what their parents did, the kids should be forced to leave school because they are benefiting from the criminal acts of someone else. They did not earn their spot in those schools, and in fact, stole that spot from a much more deserving student. Not to mention that with higher SAT/ACT scores, you are likely to earn more scholarship money. So not only did they get in on someone else's merits, the cheater could be paying less in tuition than the guy who would have gotten that scholarship if the cheater hadn't scammed their way in. So any monies given to these student's on the basis of their SAT score or athletic prowess should have to be paid back.
What makes you think any of these students received scholarship money? I guess I'm fine in allowing the students to stay if they are not failing. I think it's appalling what the parents did but I also think it's illogical to assume that every student in a school 'deserves' to be there. No kidding. We’re not supposed to punish “dreamers” because their parents are criminals. I guess it depends on whether you’re white or not.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2019 8:32:39 GMT -5
Does anyone know if the students will be removed from their schools? I don't think that's actually fair as I doubt very few of these kids knew what was happening behind the scenes. This has got to be humiliating but, as long as they are making the required grades, I think they should be allowed to stay. If someone robs a bank and gives you a bag of cash, you don't get to keep it because you didn't commit the actual crime. While I get that the kids themselves are not necessarily responsible for what their parents did, the kids should be forced to leave school because they are benefiting from the criminal acts of someone else. They did not earn their spot in those schools, and in fact, stole that spot from a much more deserving student. Not to mention that with higher SAT/ACT scores, you are likely to earn more scholarship money. So not only did they get in on someone else's merits, the cheater could be paying less in tuition than the guy who would have gotten that scholarship if the cheater hadn't scammed their way in. So any monies given to these student's on the basis of their SAT score or athletic prowess should have to be paid back.
A lot didn't know their parents were doing this though. There are transcripts of parents conversations in the indictment where the parents specifically stated they did not want their child to have any knowledge of what was going on. Plus many have graduated already. Really, the hardest part of a lot of colleges is just getting in. Many, MANY kids who could handle the coursework at these schools are turned down every year just due to limitations in how many they can take.
I do think the looking at each individual case is the best way.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2019 8:37:20 GMT -5
My high school didn't give it. I took it the first time at a local university. The second one I took actually where I ended up going to college. My uncle had football tickets and that's the way the schedule fell out. So I scheduled for there. This is how it works around here. You go to the local university to take ACT/SAT tests. It would be so easy for a crooked proctor to allow someone extra time or for a different person to take the test for someone.
I read one student was even allowed to take the SAT at home with their MOM as the proctor! Not sure how they pulled that one off. I guess crooked real proctor slips test to parent and they return it before they have to be sent in on Monday (tests are usually given on Saturday).
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Mar 15, 2019 9:13:05 GMT -5
What makes you think any of these students received scholarship money? I guess I'm fine in allowing the students to stay if they are not failing. I think it's appalling what the parents did but I also think it's illogical to assume that every student in a school 'deserves' to be there. No kidding. We’re not supposed to punish “dreamers” because their parents are criminals. I guess it depends on whether you’re white or not. "not failing" is a good reason for a community college to not drop someone who shouldn't have been admitted. not one of these prestigious institutes that admit less than 20% of those who apply. For every person who got in there fraudulently, someone's dreams were crushed. someone who was very hard-working, made the grades in class and on the tests, and just wasn't admitted due to limited space.
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gs11rmb
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Post by gs11rmb on Mar 15, 2019 11:13:47 GMT -5
No kidding. We’re not supposed to punish “dreamers” because their parents are criminals. I guess it depends on whether you’re white or not. "not failing" is a good reason for a community college to not drop someone who shouldn't have been admitted. not one of these prestigious institutes that admit less than 20% of those who apply. For every person who got in there fraudulently, someone's dreams were crushed. someone who was very hard-working, made the grades in class and on the tests, and just wasn't admitted due to limited space. I agree somewhat... I have no problem with kids who have been accepted under this scheme not being allowed to attend in fall. However, for those that are already in the schools, kicking them out now will not mean that a 'worthy' applicant that was denied can simply take their place. E.g. Alice's parents paid a $250,000 bribe to USC to have her admitted in Fall 2016. Bernice's parents paid $0 and their daughter was rejected despite having better scores and grades. Alice is now a junior with a respectable 3.0. She's just a middle of the road student, not a star but also not a failure. Making her leave does not do anything to mitigate Bernice's crushed dreams from three years earlier. It would simply be a punishment to Alice for something her parents did.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Mar 15, 2019 11:36:59 GMT -5
No kidding. We’re not supposed to punish “dreamers” because their parents are criminals. I guess it depends on whether you’re white or not. "not failing" is a good reason for a community college to not drop someone who shouldn't have been admitted. not one of these prestigious institutes that admit less than 20% of those who apply. For every person who got in there fraudulently, someone's dreams were crushed. someone who was very hard-working, made the grades in class and on the tests, and just wasn't admitted due to limited space. Crushed? Oh please tell me that you meant to insert some sarcastic emojis before hitting send.
Very few folks applying to these schools should be "crushed" by not being admitted. Almost nobody applies to USC or Yale or even Wake Forest without also applying to at least one backup school.
Usually, the backup school is slightly less prestigious and also has a slightly lower cost of attendance. The rather notable exceptions involve students who were planning to commute to their dream school and students who were aiming at instate public Ivies and don't have the means to attend the next-best program because they can't afford out of state tuition or the what the private school is asking for.
There's only one public university mixed up in this scandal so far. That kid that got bumped from U of T might have gotten a hard knock, but I also refuse to weep for kids who have been rejected by USC. If you could afford the net cost of attendance at USC, you almost certainly have a pretty good next-best move.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Mar 15, 2019 11:47:31 GMT -5
"not failing" is a good reason for a community college to not drop someone who shouldn't have been admitted. not one of these prestigious institutes that admit less than 20% of those who apply. For every person who got in there fraudulently, someone's dreams were crushed. someone who was very hard-working, made the grades in class and on the tests, and just wasn't admitted due to limited space. Crushed? Oh please tell me that you meant to insert some sarcastic emojis before hitting send.
Very few folks applying to these schools should be "crushed" by not being admitted. Almost nobody applies to USC or Yale or even Wake Forest without also applying to at least one backup school.
Usually, the backup school is slightly less prestigious and also has a slightly lower cost of attendance. The rather notable exceptions involve students who were planning to commute to their dream school and students who were aiming at instate public Ivies and don't have the means to attend the next-best program because they can't afford out of state tuition or the what the private school is asking for.
There's only one public university mixed up in this scandal so far. That kid that got bumped from U of T might have gotten a hard knock, but I also refuse to weep for kids who have been rejected by USC. If you could afford the net cost of attendance at USC, you almost certainly have a pretty good next-best move.
What planet are you living in? Do you now or have you even known college-admission-planning high-schoolers? For many, not all, this is a really important life milestone. Right or wrong, they use it a yardstick on which to measure themselves. If it's not that important, why are some paying millions to get into them?
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justme
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Post by justme on Mar 15, 2019 11:48:22 GMT -5
"not failing" is a good reason for a community college to not drop someone who shouldn't have been admitted. not one of these prestigious institutes that admit less than 20% of those who apply. For every person who got in there fraudulently, someone's dreams were crushed. someone who was very hard-working, made the grades in class and on the tests, and just wasn't admitted due to limited space. Crushed? Oh please tell me that you meant to insert some sarcastic emojis before hitting send.
Very few folks applying to these schools should be "crushed" by not being admitted. Almost nobody applies to USC or Yale or even Wake Forest without also applying to at least one backup school.
Usually, the backup school is slightly less prestigious and also has a slightly lower cost of attendance. The rather notable exceptions involve students who were planning to commute to their dream school and students who were aiming at instate public Ivies and don't have the means to attend the next-best program because they can't afford out of state tuition or the what the private school is asking for.
There's only one public university mixed up in this scandal so far. That kid that got bumped from U of T might have gotten a hard knock, but I also refuse to weep for kids who have been rejected by USC. If you could afford the net cost of attendance at USC, you almost certainly have a pretty good next-best move.
UCLA is public too.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Mar 15, 2019 11:57:30 GMT -5
Without knowing the real scope of how much this is happening on some level, it seems like a stretch for anyone to have some assumption that they would have gotten in anyways even if this weren't happening. It's not like they send out letters saying "you're the 1st alternate, you were just ONE away from getting in".
Not sure if others have seen it, but Loughlin's daughter was apparently on a yacht owned by one of the USC trustees at the time the news broke...awkward!
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Mar 15, 2019 12:00:14 GMT -5
Yup, UCLA is public, and I think that there might be a third public university that got burned too. Damn you folks that respond faster than I can wiki and edit.
But I still want to talk a bit about who gets crushed and why. The kids who get bumped out of public Ivies and can't afford outstate or private take a bit hit. They might even be crushed. But the kids who can afford to attend the next-best school -- why the hell are we crying for them?
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justme
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Post by justme on Mar 15, 2019 12:01:58 GMT -5
Without knowing the real scope of how much this is happening on some level, it seems like a stretch for anyone to have some assumption that they would have gotten in anyways even if this weren't happening. It's not like they send out letters saying "you're the 1st alternate, you were just ONE away from getting in". Not sure if others have seen it, but Loughlin's daughter was apparently on a yacht owned by one of the USC trustees at the time the news broke...awkward! I saw that. Though no one seemed clear on whether she met his daughter at USC or knew before.
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justme
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Post by justme on Mar 15, 2019 12:09:42 GMT -5
Yup, UCLA is public, and I think that there might be a third public university that got burned too. Damn you folks that respond faster than I can wiki and edit.
But I still want to talk a bit about who gets crushed and why. The kids who get bumped out of public Ivies and can't afford outstate or private take a bit hit. They might even be crushed. But the kids who can afford to attend the next-best school -- why the hell are we crying for them?
In general I'm mad for whoever the theoretical kid that didn't get in. But being able to determine which kid that is? Impossible - they're just glad they have someone other then themselves to blame for why they didn't get in. If California's shtick is anything like Florida's - those that had a decent shot of getting into UCLA got into another state school if they applied. (Florida's shtick is if you were in the top 20% of your HS class you're guaranteed to get into one of their 12 universities.)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2019 13:40:59 GMT -5
Without knowing the real scope of how much this is happening on some level, it seems like a stretch for anyone to have some assumption that they would have gotten in anyways even if this weren't happening. It's not like they send out letters saying "you're the 1st alternate, you were just ONE away from getting in".
Not sure if others have seen it, but Loughlin's daughter was apparently on a yacht owned by one of the USC trustees at the time the news broke...awkward! Right. There are 10's of thousands of people not admitted to all these schools every year, I think it's a little odd that people feel this scandal involving some 30 some students is what kept them from Stanford or wherever. I mean, obviously they took A spot that someone else could have had, but there are so many qualified kids that get denied, you could still be thousands of spots away from getting that acceptance letter.
It's not like less academically qualified individuals don't get spots all the time through perfectly legal means. Legacy students, affirmative action students, athletes... Not that I'm condoning this. I think it's pretty disgusting actually. It's not like these wealthy kids don't have every advantage in the world already to get into good schools.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Mar 15, 2019 13:48:17 GMT -5
Yup, UCLA is public, and I think that there might be a third public university that got burned too. Damn you folks that respond faster than I can wiki and edit.
But I still want to talk a bit about who gets crushed and why. The kids who get bumped out of public Ivies and can't afford outstate or private take a bit hit. They might even be crushed. But the kids who can afford to attend the next-best school -- why the hell are we crying for them?
In general I'm mad for whoever the theoretical kid that didn't get in. But being able to determine which kid that is? Impossible - they're just glad they have someone other then themselves to blame for why they didn't get in. If California's shtick is anything like Florida's - those that had a decent shot of getting into UCLA got into another state school if they applied. (Florida's shtick is if you were in the top 20% of your HS class you're guaranteed to get into one of their 12 universities.) Impossible? It's astonishingly easy. You just need access to the school's admission records - hence the lawsuit.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Mar 15, 2019 13:54:04 GMT -5
Without knowing the real scope of how much this is happening on some level, it seems like a stretch for anyone to have some assumption that they would have gotten in anyways even if this weren't happening. It's not like they send out letters saying "you're the 1st alternate, you were just ONE away from getting in".Not sure if others have seen it, but Loughlin's daughter was apparently on a yacht owned by one of the USC trustees at the time the news broke...awkward! No, but they do send a letter out that you are waitlisted, and if a place becomes available you get in. My niece was waitlisted for her first college choice.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Mar 15, 2019 13:58:23 GMT -5
News I have heard today after perusing today's news.....
Looks like Hallmark is pulling Lori Loughlin's shows from the line up.
Olivia Jade has lost a second sponsor, along with Sephora. Apparently Amazon is retaining her (which is ironic, as her shtick was 'how to decorate a college dorm from Amazon') and another firm is still keeping her.
Both the her daughters are withdrawing from USC because they are afraid of bullying. Social media accounts comments have been turned off (cold turkey, might be interesting).
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justme
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Post by justme on Mar 15, 2019 14:02:48 GMT -5
In general I'm mad for whoever the theoretical kid that didn't get in. But being able to determine which kid that is? Impossible - they're just glad they have someone other then themselves to blame for why they didn't get in. If California's shtick is anything like Florida's - those that had a decent shot of getting into UCLA got into another state school if they applied. (Florida's shtick is if you were in the top 20% of your HS class you're guaranteed to get into one of their 12 universities.) Impossible? It's astonishingly easy. You just need access to the school's admission records - hence the lawsuit. The schools keep a numbered list of the order in which they selected/rejected people? I guess some might have a numbered waitlist, my alma mater doesn't though they also ask you to accept to be on the waitlist or not. Acceptance isn't just a scan in application and a computer spits out rejection/acceptance based on where your GPA and scores fall so I wouldn't think they'd have a hard and fast #1 through whatever list, but maybe I'm wrong.
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Mar 15, 2019 14:12:00 GMT -5
News I have heard today after perusing today's news..... Looks like Hallmark is pulling Lori Loughlin's shows from the line up. Olivia Jade has lost a second sponsor, along with Sephora. Apparently Amazon is retaining her (which is ironic, as her shtick was 'how to decorate a college dorm from Amazon') and another firm is still keeping her. Both the her daughters are withdrawing from USC because they are afraid of bullying. Social media accounts comments have been turned off (cold turkey, might be interesting). Someone's doing some damage control for them. I've been reading articles about the girls being "mortified" by what their parents have done, school was never that important to the girls, it was the parents that wanted them to go etc. Another article about Aunt Becky and her husband finding out who their real friends are. They're trying really hard to make them sympathetic. I do feel sorry for Lori Laughlin in the sense that this is the one list she would get on that she is the most famous person on it and get's all the attention. She is C list at best and any other celebrity would outshine her. (Felicity Huffman only spent $15000, not nearly a good enough story)
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laterbloomer
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Post by laterbloomer on Mar 15, 2019 14:13:25 GMT -5
I read that he helped 800 students get in. They say more indictments are coming.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Mar 15, 2019 14:24:56 GMT -5
What makes you think any of these students received scholarship money? I guess I'm fine in allowing the students to stay if they are not failing. I think it's appalling what the parents did but I also think it's illogical to assume that every student in a school 'deserves' to be there. No kidding. We’re not supposed to punish “dreamers” because their parents are criminals. I guess it depends on whether you’re white or not. you do occasionally suffer from a persecution complex don't you.
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Rukh O'Rorke
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Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Mar 15, 2019 14:26:16 GMT -5
Impossible? It's astonishingly easy. You just need access to the school's admission records - hence the lawsuit. The schools keep a numbered list of the order in which they selected/rejected people? I guess some might have a numbered waitlist, my alma mater doesn't though they also ask you to accept to be on the waitlist or not. Acceptance isn't just a scan in application and a computer spits out rejection/acceptance based on where your GPA and scores fall so I wouldn't think they'd have a hard and fast #1 through whatever list, but maybe I'm wrong. Generally there are number of weighted variables (GPA, HS ranks, HS quality, honors/AP courses, ACT/SAT, letter of recommendation, extra curriculars, interviews if they do those, whatever they think is important) and students are scored based on those. It produces a rank ordering and if you have 5000 slots you give it to the top 5000 students. You may have minimums on GPA or ACT that you also keep and so if only 4995 meet that criteria, you only take that many. Certainly factors such as legacy, sports, etc. are figured into there as well. It may be added to the mix for a score - or some factors may used to override the whole process. So you have room for 5000, and you have 40 sports persons who are not in the top 5000, and 10 legacy admits that are not in the top 5000, and those are 50 are guaranteed their places, and then you take the top 4950 from the rank orders. These are also discussed by a committee, and reviews of all this, maybe some tweaking, but essentially, somehow, it does come down to a ranking.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Mar 15, 2019 14:32:45 GMT -5
You didn't get into choice A college two years ago. You therefore are forced to enroll at your choice B college. You meet the love of your life at choice B school your freshman year. (Or select your own positive result from being at choice B school.) How much money should you get for not making it into your choice A college? Or should you have to pay?
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Mar 15, 2019 14:37:10 GMT -5
You didn't get into choice A college two years ago. You therefore are forced to enroll at your choice B college. You meet the love of your life at choice B school your freshman year. (Or select your own positive result from being at choice B school.) How much money should you get for not making it into your choice A college? Or should you have to pay? You divorce the love of your life 10 years down the line so now you need to get your money from School A back and reinstate the lawsuit
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