Getting my stuff together

[Pants]

May 17, 2019 21:26:34 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I know too. It's why I haven't killed him and buried him the backyard.

But I'm exhausted. It seems like every time I get in a good place he creates some crisis.

I'm done. I won't abandon him or anything and I'm happy to help sort out things like insurance. I'm good at that stuff.

But I'm done staying home while he hides in the bedroom all day. I'm done feeling guilty about enjoying my life and the girls shouldn't miss out either.


He commented that we looked so happy at the zoo on Friday and maybe it was because he wasn't there. I didn't correct him.





He doesn't want to be ignored and have us treat him like a wet blanket he can quit wallowing. The girls want their daddy involved. They aren't stupid they see him and respond accordingly.

He wants to wallow he can do it all he wants but he'll have to do it without an auidence.

Totally understood. You're being strong for everyone, as always. I think you're doing great, honestly.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I know he's not me but fuck man just once I'd like him to act his age.


It was sobering to have it dawn on me that I was attracted to DH when I was 19 because it turns out he was emotionally the same age. The problem is I grew up.




ETA. That does him some disservice he has come far from when we met. If he had not he wouldn't be here for me to chuck a notebook at because my dad would have made him disappear.

But it's not enough. It sounds selfish and probably is to an extent. I want more. It'd be nice for me to act like the younger spouse, which I am, for a change. I want to be the Disney pare t for a change.

He needs to speed up. I'm sorry but he does not have the luxury of waiting it out like those of us who aren't emotionally stunted addicts did. He's married with kids. I told him I'm not willing to wait another 10 years to see if he can even catch up to me let alone his actual age.

[Works4me]

X

[giramomma]

May 17, 2019 21:49:55 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

He needs to speed up. I'm sorry but he does not have the luxury of waiting it out like those of us who aren't emotionally stunted addicts did. He's married with kids. I told him I'm not willing to wait another 10 years to see if he can even catch up to me let alone his actual age.

I get that. And it totally sucks, but your husband can't move through recovery (or not) on your timeline.

It's got to be on his.

There's no quick fix.

DH is starting back up with a therapist, again. Because things he assumed that would have gotten "fixed" with now a combined 5+ years of sobriety/recovery work aren't. Some of it has to do towards me. DH still can't really comfort me in the moment (generally when I'm triggering or in a really, really bad panic attack). Some if it is how he's always been wired.

And, he didn't understand even though he was doing "the work" the first time, it wasn't enough. I would say it's really been in the last year that he's understanding how much work is involved.

This shit is painfully slow. It's painful, period.

That's not to say that you don't have a right to call it quits anytime you want to. You absolutely do.  And I don't blame you for not wanting to wait around. When I was in my early 30s, I didn't want to either. Now, it's different. I don't think I've softened. I think I'm demanding more, now actually. But nothing is clean and simple. Personally I've shied away from making statements about the future, because I have no crystal ball. I trust myself to know I'll make the right decisions when I need to, whenever that needs to be.

[Wisconsin Beth]

How's everyone doing today? 

[taz157]

May 22, 2019 10:47:38 GMT -5 Wisconsin Beth said:

How's everyone doing today? 

Today is DH’s and mine 15th wedding anniversary! 🎉

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

We're okay. We had a long talk and he finally took some of my suggestions for dealing with the anxiety.

It's helping he can lessen the intensity of the panic attacks enough he can function. We're in the process of finding a professional.

In the meantime he goes to weekly NA meetings.

[Sam_2.0]

So....

I got to meet up with my friend last night for a LONG overdue girl's night out. She asked how things were with H and even though she's been the biggest supporter of staying together, last night she told me it was time to pull the trigger and leave. It was nice to hear that from her and to have her support too.

And then this morning, I got a text from my old college boyfriend. He recently got divorced and we had kind of lost touch over the past two years or so, but he found me again on IG and we started catching up. When I told him our marriage was in a bad spot, he texted me. Honestly gave some really kind advice. Its thrown me for a loop that he came from out of nowhere and told me those things the day after I had just had the same talk with my friend. I went for a long walk with work dude to process it all and he was super nice about it too.

I know what I need to do. Getting the courage to pull the trigger is hard though. My mess is more comfortable than the unknown. Ill survive, we all will, and maybe there's a chance for us all to be happier. It at least wont be worse, right?

[oped]

Last night husband and I went grocery shopping. I said lets divide and conquer. He went to deli. When we found each other again he had only 2 packages of meat each a single solid hunk like he likes them. 

I said, you only got hunks? He said that's how he likes them. I said but nobody else will eat that. He said that's ok he'll eat it all. I was trying to get him to see the point that he isn't the only one who might like some through subtle questioning.

He then seems to get the idea... says almost contritely... Oh... I should have got some sliced... because the dog likes to take his pills with sliced lunch meat...

If you could have bottled the look on my face to use as a weapon all our problems would be solved...

[TheOtherMe]

May 22, 2019 16:00:48 GMT -5 Sam_2.0 said:

So....

I got to meet up with my friend last night for a LONG overdue girl's night out. She asked how things were with H and even though she's been the biggest supporter of staying together, last night she told me it was time to pull the trigger and leave. It was nice to hear that from her and to have her support too.

And then this morning, I got a text from my old college boyfriend. He recently got divorced and we had kind of lost touch over the past two years or so, but he found me again on IG and we started catching up. When I told him our marriage was in a bad spot, he texted me. Honestly gave some really kind advice. Its thrown me for a loop that he came from out of nowhere and told me those things the day after I had just had the same talk with my friend. I went for a long walk with work dude to process it all and he was super nice about it too.

I know what I need to do. Getting the courage to pull the trigger is hard though. My mess is more comfortable than the unknown. Ill survive, we all will, and maybe there's a chance for us all to be happier. It at least wont be worse, right?

  

From what you have shared over the years, I don't see how it can be worse if you pull the trigger.  

You will be showing your children what a strong woman looks like.  I see your posts on FB and admire your strength, especially when I see some of the comments from people from your former religious community.  

I will say what I need to hear at times.  You are strong, stronger than you believe.

[mollyanna58]

I know what I need to do. Getting the courage to pull the trigger is hard though. My mess is more comfortable than the unknown. Ill survive, we all will, and maybe there's a chance for us all to be happier. It at least wont be worse, right?

It may be worse in the short run.  It will probably be very sucky in the beginning.  But you are in it for the long run, and you will come through better off.  You deserve to be happy. 

[Sam_2.0]

So. I need to unpack some of this.

This ex that reached out...he was always the "one that got away" so to speak. We ended on good terms, we have nothing but fond memories of each other. He is a fabulous person that I trust and respect a LOT. We backed off from talking so much when we both got married, but hes always been there. When I lost Aubree, he was the only one there for me for awhile. He is a firefighter so he would be up at odd hours and he would text with me when I was losing my shit in the middle of the night. He was there for me when my husband wasnt. We both recognized it was starting to get too close and we backed off again. I unfriended him from FB but I kept him on IG. I couldn't let him go completely

And then work guy today. We have been hanging out a lot since I sit right by him. We go to lunch daily just the two of us. He had a gf until last week....

I'm not looking at either guy as my reason for leaving. I need to NOT have that kind of reason for leaving. But both of them are making me realize I could have so much more. I could have someone that I want to go home to, instead of being sad that i have to leave work. I could have someone who wants to be with me instead of someone who just tag team parents with me and let's me do all the shitty stuff.

I'm seeing what I'm missing. I'm seeing what i want. I dont think I'm going to end up with either of these guys either in the short or long term - that rarely plans out. I get it. But i appreciate them for their honesty and helping me to see that there may be a chance for better someday. Unlike what H says, maybe I'm not irreparably broken. Maybe someone can decide to love me in spite of how weird i am.

[debthaven]

[chiver78]

May 23, 2019 1:50:43 GMT -5 debthaven said:

☝️that.

[wvugurl26]

You are certainly not broken. You are very strong and you've been through so much. You deserve to be happy and your kids deserve a happy momma. We are rooting for you.

[TheOtherMe]

Sam, you are not broken.  We are all individuals and probably a little weird.

You deserve to have a loving relationship and, most of all, to be happy.  

[oped]

So, please don’t be offended, but if your fundamentalist cult thought I was weird I’d just give a big old hearty Thank You! of relief...

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

You're not weird Sam.  You're liberated.  HUGE difference.  It is something that we are supposed to strive for in this country.   The fact that your husband and family members either will not or cannot grow along with you is not a reflection on you.

[flamingo]

Hugs, Sam. I have no doubt that you'll make the right decision for you, when the time is right for you to make it.

What I see you modeling for your children (strength, ability to change, recognizing that people grow up/grow apart) is amazing. It's something I wish my mother had modeled for me. She did not divorce my father (they are still married) and she is miserable. I recognized it as a kid, and I see it even more clearly today. My father is in no way abusive towards her, they just bring out the worst in each other and fight/argue all the time. I wish she'd had the strength and courage I see in you. Had she had that, and had she taken the very necessary step of leaving my father, I think I'd either be happier in my own marriage, or be able to make the choice to leave. I'm content, but more and more I'm starting to think I settled and that I don't want this for the next 40 years. I don't know what I plan to do about it (spoiler alert, likely nothing anytime soon) but I do wish I'd had a mother with the ability to see/say/take action on her own unhappy marriage. Even if her action was just prioritizing her own happiness, maybe I would have learned to better prioritize my own.

Please don't think I'm saying you should leave your H if that's not what you want. But as you think about it, and take actions to make you happier, whatever form that takes, you and your children will be fine. Your children are learning amazing things from you, and even if in the short term things are rough, in the long run, everyone is resilient and will bounce back.

[Wisconsin Beth]

I'll say it.  I want Sam to leave him. But it's Sam's life and I'll support her choice from Internetland. 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I can hardly talk about leaving.

I take the same stance I did with my BFF. I'm here to listen and give feedback if asked but I'm not going to tell you what to do. I may not agree but I'll support you because that's what friends do.

[NastyWoman]

May 23, 2019 0:15:26 GMT -5 Sam_2.0 said:

So. I need to unpack some of this.

...
I'm not looking at either guy as my reason for leaving. I need to NOT have that kind of reason for leaving. But both of them are making me realize I could have so much more. I could have someone that I want to go home to, instead of being sad that i have to leave work. I could have someone who wants to be with me instead of someone who just tag team parents with me and let's me do all the shitty stuff.

I'm seeing what I'm missing. I'm seeing what i want.

Sam_2.0 you have posted many things in the past that were very sad because of what life has thrown at you, but nobody, I repeat nobody, should have to be sad to go home! Heck, I live by myself (so nobody to go to) and even I like going home. 

Go out and get what you are missing and DESERVE. Ripping off the bandaid will hurt but you will come out better in the long run. Far better.  

[Sam_2.0]

Its funny, sometimes the things you say to your kids reflect back to you and make you realize you need to take your own advice. Aly gets super anxious and scared about random things. I told her the other day - its ok to be scared. Being brave doesn't mean not being scared. It means you know that you are strong enough to do it anyway.

[Wisconsin Beth]

How'd the long weekend go Sam_2.0?

Mine was good, all in all. 

[Sam_2.0]

oh. Where to start....

My friend came in from IL with her family. We met on BabyCenter when we were both CTT, then found each other again in the pregnancy after loss groups. Their kids are the same age as our boys. H was PISSED I was bringing strangers from online into our house but he didn't stop me. He didn't understand why I trusted an "imaginary" friend enough to allow them to stay in our home for 4 days when we had never actually met in person. They got in on Friday afternoon and we went out for dinner, then came back and let the kids play while we sat on the patio to talk. It was the first time H had talked openly about Aubree, and the first time he'd ever met another couple who went through what we did and at the exact same time, no less. He couldn't handle it for long and went to bed early (but after that tornado touched down in the field next to our neighborhood, took out a big chunk of our tree, and had us all scrambling to get babies to the basement just minutes after we had finally gotten them all to sleep. It was an adventure.)

H woke up at 4am wanting to talk. He talked about how distant I was, how I didn't seem to be working on things like he was, how he wasn't the only one to blame for what went wrong in the last 6 years. The talk ended at 6am with me telling him I wanted a divorce. Then the kids got up and we had to go on with our day and outings with our friends. Hella awkward. We took the kids to Sea Life to see the mermaids, waited for an hour at Joe's (letting kids eat crackers off the gas station floor, because I was too spent to even try to care). When we got home H went to nap and I sat down to talk with my friend. Seriously, it was like we'd known each other our whole lives. There was never any uneasiness, never any awkwardness. Our kids instantly bonded with theirs, they parent very similarly to how we do, it was just a REALLY good time. After H and the babies woke up we went to the park to wear them out some more and grabbed more drive through. We got home and got the kids to bed, and the parents all sat down again. K kind of let H have it for calling her an imaginary friend, and he apologized. She and I talked about how we bonded online because no one IRL understood. H broke down crying and listened to her, listened to how her husband dealt with it. R talked about how there wasn't much support for him and how he really struggled. It seriously felt like a super intense group therapy session.

When we went to bed that night, H was crying and apologizing for how he just checked out. He recognizes he was gone the second we left the hospital empty handed, and he's been gone for the last 6 years. When we had Aly, he wasn't quite ready to grow up yet. But he said that Aubree was the one he had really wanted - he was "gearing up" to jump into fatherhood and when we lost her he didn't know what to do. He wasn't ready to have another baby when we had Jaydon, and he wasn't ready for Taylor either. K had talked to him at some point earlier in the day and let him know she would have left LONG before I did. H kept apologizing for being such a shitty husband and father. He asked to see Aubree's pics - first time he's looked at them. He asked to see pics of J and T as newborns because he didn't remember any of it.

Really long story short, I think H figured some serious shit out this weekend. He and R bonded, have exchanged phone numbers, and they are already planning a meetup in Chicago soon. K was able to tell him the same things I've been trying to, but I guess he finally understood a lot of it now. He finally allowed himself to even mention Aubree, look at her pics, hold her bear, and start to grieve losing her. I told him I'm happy he's finally doing that work, but our romantic relationship is still so very broken. I need space. I'm moving into the guest room for now. The more he fights me on having space, the more I am desperate to get away. I need my boundaries in order to build back any kind of trust. I don't know what the hell happened this weekend, but I feel like a freaking tornado went through our family (and not just through the back yard). I was not expecting any of this at all. But it turns out that its just what we all needed I guess.

Now I have an emotional hangover. I just want to sleep for a year. Jaydon misses Amelia and cries for her - he asked me to drive to see her today. Those two rainbow babies formed an instant bond and I think they will be lifelong friends.

[Wisconsin Beth]

God Sam.  That sounds like a helluva intense weekend - on every single level there is.  Massive hugs for you. 

[Peace77]

Hugs Sam.

[shanendoah]

Hugs Sam.

I think that no matter what happens now, this will be a turning point for you and your H. Hopefully from it, real healing can happen for both of you.

[finnime]

Wow, Sam_2.0. For your H to be moved like that is amazing. I'm glad for you. No matter what happens next, this was a good thing.

[Pants]

May 28, 2019 10:50:11 GMT -5 Sam_2.0 said:

oh. Where to start....

My friend came in from IL with her family. We met on BabyCenter when we were both CTT, then found each other again in the pregnancy after loss groups. Their kids are the same age as our boys. H was PISSED I was bringing strangers from online into our house but he didn't stop me. He didn't understand why I trusted an "imaginary" friend enough to allow them to stay in our home for 4 days when we had never actually met in person. They got in on Friday afternoon and we went out for dinner, then came back and let the kids play while we sat on the patio to talk. It was the first time H had talked openly about Aubree, and the first time he'd ever met another couple who went through what we did and at the exact same time, no less. He couldn't handle it for long and went to bed early (but after that tornado touched down in the field next to our neighborhood, took out a big chunk of our tree, and had us all scrambling to get babies to the basement just minutes after we had finally gotten them all to sleep. It was an adventure.)

H woke up at 4am wanting to talk. He talked about how distant I was, how I didn't seem to be working on things like he was, how he wasn't the only one to blame for what went wrong in the last 6 years. The talk ended at 6am with me telling him I wanted a divorce. Then the kids got up and we had to go on with our day and outings with our friends. Hella awkward. We took the kids to Sea Life to see the mermaids, waited for an hour at Joe's (letting kids eat crackers off the gas station floor, because I was too spent to even try to care). When we got home H went to nap and I sat down to talk with my friend. Seriously, it was like we'd known each other our whole lives. There was never any uneasiness, never any awkwardness. Our kids instantly bonded with theirs, they parent very similarly to how we do, it was just a REALLY good time. After H and the babies woke up we went to the park to wear them out some more and grabbed more drive through. We got home and got the kids to bed, and the parents all sat down again. K kind of let H have it for calling her an imaginary friend, and he apologized. She and I talked about how we bonded online because no one IRL understood. H broke down crying and listened to her, listened to how her husband dealt with it. R talked about how there wasn't much support for him and how he really struggled. It seriously felt like a super intense group therapy session.

When we went to bed that night, H was crying and apologizing for how he just checked out. He recognizes he was gone the second we left the hospital empty handed, and he's been gone for the last 6 years. When we had Aly, he wasn't quite ready to grow up yet. But he said that Aubree was the one he had really wanted - he was "gearing up" to jump into fatherhood and when we lost her he didn't know what to do. He wasn't ready to have another baby when we had Jaydon, and he wasn't ready for Taylor either. K had talked to him at some point earlier in the day and let him know she would have left LONG before I did. H kept apologizing for being such a shitty husband and father. He asked to see Aubree's pics - first time he's looked at them. He asked to see pics of J and T as newborns because he didn't remember any of it.

Really long story short, I think H figured some serious shit out this weekend. He and R bonded, have exchanged phone numbers, and they are already planning a meetup in Chicago soon. K was able to tell him the same things I've been trying to, but I guess he finally understood a lot of it now. He finally allowed himself to even mention Aubree, look at her pics, hold her bear, and start to grieve losing her. I told him I'm happy he's finally doing that work, but our romantic relationship is still so very broken. I need space. I'm moving into the guest room for now. The more he fights me on having space, the more I am desperate to get away. I need my boundaries in order to build back any kind of trust. I don't know what the hell happened this weekend, but I feel like a freaking tornado went through our family (and not just through the back yard). I was not expecting any of this at all. But it turns out that its just what we all needed I guess.

Now I have an emotional hangover. I just want to sleep for a year. Jaydon misses Amelia and cries for her - he asked me to drive to see her today. Those two rainbow babies formed an instant bond and I think they will be lifelong friends.

I am sorry your weekend was so tough. I am glad that you got to meet up with friends and that apparently you all worked on working some things out. I know I am not an objective observer in this situation, but as I read this my spidey-senses are tingling like crazy. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt that he's had some real and true breakthroughs regarding his grief about Aubree's death and his role in everything that has happened since. BUT...

1) He's still angry that you have friendships differently than he does. 
2) He's still very focused on who's to blame for the broken relationship - aka you, not him. 
3) He has been in joint and individual therapy pretty much the entire time since you lost aubree. Yet somehow it's not until you say "I want a divorce" out loud that he begins to focus on his grief. It just seems... oddly handy in terms of timing. 
4) That Aubree was the only child he was ready for... again, seems a bit handy in terms of continuing to lay blame for his lack of parenting. 
5) It takes *other people* telling him things to make him realize what you've been saying for actual years might be valid. Just like last time it took his dad saying "fix your marriage" for him to be like "Oh, I should try to fix my marriage." He still doesn't seem to listen *to you*. E.g., you say you need space, but he fights you on it. 

All of this - literally all of it - centers him and his feelings - *again.* When people really have a realization of how badly they have fucked things up, any sincere attempt at moving forward should be focused on what the people they've hurt need. Hell, it's why "making amends" is one of the 12 steps. Has he made any attempt to ask what you need? Is he taking what you're saying seriously, or is he "fighting you" on it?

Again, I want to give him the benefit of the doubt that this has been some watershed moment for his psyche, and he has seen how damaged he has been and how that has damaged everything around him. And I hope that he follows up with actions and behavior changes that improve life for all of you, together or apart.