NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 1, 2019 15:30:22 GMT -5
My husband is almost 44. Yet, I'm having similarly themed discussions with my 15year old DS as I am with my husband.Same. We just had this conversation yesterday. DH told me he gets pissed that I treat him like a child. I countered then he needs to stop acting like one because right now I don't have a husband I have three kids. I don't care you "don't know how" to grow up figure it the fuck out like the rest of us had to. In the meantime I have decided that I am going to set up an online bank account that he is not allowed to be on. A portion of our EF will go in there. It'll either be a bug out account for me or we can finally build a nest egg. Time will tell. Also getting sick of his dad sticking his nose into our finances. First of all this is not the 1950s where DH's word is law (thank God) and second maybe if your son didn't behave worse than my 30 year brother or my 8 year old daughter when it comes to money maybe he wouldn't have to be on such a tight leash. Maybe instead of harping about me emasculating him you smack him upside the head and tell him to grow some man balls. I’m sorry... after everything... EVERYTHING your DH has done in the last year... he’s complaining that you treat him like a child?!?!? He shut up when I pointed out it's his own damn fault. It's not like I enjoy it, he's 10 years older than me for Pete's sake if anyone should be treated like a kid marital wise it's ME! This always happens after he talks to his parents. Now I am well aware and have told him that at 45 years old he has to accept that "how I was raised" at this point is an excuse but JFC so many puzzle pieces have fallen into place. Could they just once acknowledge I am the one with the brains in this marriage and it is not emasculating your husband when your husband continues act damn near 20 years younger than me. Thank the Lord it's not the 1950's anymore. I would have been up a creek without a paddle. DH is a poster child for why the "good old days" marriage wise needed to die.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Apr 1, 2019 15:38:03 GMT -5
I’m sorry... after everything... EVERYTHING your DH has done in the last year... he’s complaining that you treat him like a child?!?!? He shut up when I pointed out it's his own damn fault. It's not like I enjoy it, he's 10 years older than me for Pete's sake if anyone should be treated like a kid marital wise it's ME! This always happens after he talks to his parents. Boy does it paint a freaking picture as to why DH is the way he is. Now I am well aware and have told him that at 45 years old he has to accept that "how I was raised" at this point is an excuse but JFC. Could they just once acknowledge I am the one with the brains in this marriage and it is not emasculating your husband when your husband continues acts damn near 20 years younger than you. Emasculate, pffffttt. Women don't whine like little bitches that we are being "efmeninated" when someone expects us to act life full fledged grown ass human beings. Is there even a real feminine version of "emasculated"? I don't think so. There's definitely not one in wide use. Why do those delicate flowers need a special word to complain that a woman made them feel bad?
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 1, 2019 15:41:47 GMT -5
I know right?
Having testicles does not automatically grant someone the ability to handle money. I am willing to be an equal partner IF and ONLY IF DH grows up. Putting him in charge is NEVER happening.
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Chocolate Lover
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Post by Chocolate Lover on Apr 1, 2019 15:44:06 GMT -5
I know right? Having testicles does not automatically grant someone the ability to handle money. I am willing to be an equal partner IF and ONLY IF DH grows up. Putting him in charge is NEVER happening. I admire your restraint in not stringing either of your in laws up by their toenails,honestly.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Apr 1, 2019 15:45:13 GMT -5
I know right? Having testicles does not automatically grant someone the ability to handle money. I am willing to be an equal partner IF and ONLY IF DH grows up. Putting him in charge is NEVER happening. And you know the real truth is he doesn't even WANT to be in charge. Having to bear the responsibility of keeping all the shit going would be miserable. But there is enjoyment in complaining about not being in charge.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 1, 2019 15:48:05 GMT -5
I'm fine with him not being in charge, I wouldn't trust him as far as I could spit I don't care if Jesus Christ himself came down and told me DH could be trusted to handle our finances. What I want is for him to stop acting like a teenager who is used to having unlimited access to daddy's credit card.
He has gotten better over the years, I should give him credit but not as much as he feels it should considering he's 45 years old. These are things I should be praising the kids for, it should be a given at his age.
I feel like and want to give him a chance. I am still sorting out though how long I want to sit around and wait.
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Apr 1, 2019 19:25:44 GMT -5
I've been talking a lot with a close friend who just went through a divorce. Her twins are in Al's class. I am a lot like her ex and she is like H. Not quite, but generic personality wise you get it. Her ex up and left. She was devastated. Her kids are devastated. She keeps imploring me to avoid doing the same to my kids if I can, even though shes the first to tell H to his face that he is being an asshole.
Seeing their situation makes me think we can do the roommates thing for awhile longer. I can get what I am lacking in romance and passion somewhere else. But the kids have their dad and that wont change and he is actually doing what he can to parent better.
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oped
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Post by oped on Apr 1, 2019 21:31:58 GMT -5
Just an observation, but the devastated parent isn't likely to be the strong, proactive one for taking the kids through the process ... I'm guessing the kids are picking up on her emotions and she is amplifying issues rather than trying to mitigate them. No two situations will be alike and just because her transition looks a certain way doesn't mean that yours would be in any way similar.
Is your husband ok with you getting those things elsewhere? Is he on board with the roomates situation and knowing the marriage part is technically over?
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Works4me
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Post by Works4me on Apr 1, 2019 23:37:35 GMT -5
"Seeing their situation makes me think we can do the roommates thing for awhile longer. I can get what I am lacking in romance and passion somewhere else. But the kids have their dad and that wont change and he is actually doing what he can to parent better."
I question if it really would be possible to get what your are "lacking in passion and romance somewhere else" while still living with your husband, even if it is as nothing more than roommates. I also question what type of man would get involved in a high drama situation like that.
Most of all, I'd be very concerned your DH would use it against you when it comes time to divorce. At the very least I could see him blabbing about it to everyone else because it could make the divorce entirely your fault.
When he realizes that a divorce is truly inevitable, the gloves will come off and unfortunately I could see him using anything and everything against you. I just do not see him as fighting fair in that situation.
Just my opinion but as long as you are married and living together, even just as roommates, passion and romance need to stay on ice. He previously put tracking and/or spyware on your cell phone so who knows what else he'd do.
I wish we all could do more than offer hugs of support, love and prayers for those of you in difficult marriage situations.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Apr 2, 2019 8:02:42 GMT -5
No 2 situations are completely alike, and it's a mistake to allow people to put themselves into your DH's shoes. They are very much not him, are they? I mean, Carl was sympathizing with him a bit, but Carl's situation is completely different. I'm betting so is your friend's.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Apr 2, 2019 8:09:16 GMT -5
As someone who had a baby daddy who was more interested in partying than raising kids and would go through phases of being good and then reverting back, I say cut ties. No matter when you do it, it's going to be rough in the beginning. The sooner you get rid of the drama, the better. Focus on coparenting your kids. If he can't/won't, focus on being the best single parent you can be. The kids know more about what's going on than you think. If you prolong your unhappiness, you're doing a disservice to yourself and your kids.
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steph08
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Post by steph08 on Apr 2, 2019 9:15:55 GMT -5
That situation is the complete opposite of yours. You would not just up and leave. You already told your DH that you were planning on filing. It's not a shock to him, though he would probably still be "devastated" because he seems the dramatic, victim type. Separating lives and households would not be just "up and leaving." Do I think your kids would have a hard time with it? Probably, but kids are pretty resilient.
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chapeau
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Post by chapeau on Apr 2, 2019 9:26:20 GMT -5
That situation is the complete opposite of yours. You would not just up and leave. You already told your DH that you were planning on filing. It's not a shock to him, though he would probably still be "devastated" because he seems the dramatic, victim type. Separating lives and households would not be just "up and leaving." Do I think your kids would have a hard time with it? Probably, but kids are pretty resilient. Also, and maybe I’m mean to point this out, but you said she’s “like your husband”. Of Course she’s going to see things from his side. If she could see the other side (her husband’s and yours!), she might not be in the situation she’s in now.
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justme
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Post by justme on Apr 2, 2019 9:42:12 GMT -5
No 2 situations are completely alike, and it's a mistake to allow people to put themselves into your DH's shoes. They are very much not him, are they? I mean, Carl was sympathizing with him a bit, but Carl's situation is completely different. I'm betting so is your friend's. Not to mention the friend's husband chose to divorce AND disappear. There's nothing innate to divorce that means dad disappears from the kids life (assuming he's not bad and therefore has no visitation) so the kids losing dad in a divorce is 100% a choice of the dad.
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shanendoah
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Post by shanendoah on Apr 2, 2019 10:07:32 GMT -5
Sam_2.0 - I know your biggest concern is your kids. I get that. But honestly, as long as you and their Dad are able to be civil and remain in their lives, they are not going to be seriously damaged by this. Get A and maybe J in counseling when it happens so that they have a safe place to share their feelings without feeling like they are betraying either one of their parents, but seriously, as long as you are both able to put them first, they will be fine. I say this as a child of divorce, from the era of divorce (or so it felt). In my experience, when parents divorce when they realize it's time to divorce, things always work out better for the kids than when people try to stay together for the kids. The most toxic relationships I know are people who stayed together for the kids, divorcing the moment the youngest left the house. And it has carried over into their relationships with their kids as adults. In my experience, staying together for the kids does more damage to the kids than separating.
No one can make this decision for you, but I want to assure you that leaving your husband will not irrevocably destroy your kids. As long as you are both able to parent and be civil to one another, your kids will be fine. They might need some counseling at first, but seriously, kids are happier and healthier when their parents are happier and healthier. And since you are the primary care giver (and will remain so, even in a 50/50 split), your health and happiness is paramount to their's.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2019 10:25:45 GMT -5
Sam_2.0 - I know your biggest concern is your kids. I get that. But honestly, as long as you and their Dad are able to be civil and remain in their lives, they are not going to be seriously damaged by this. Get A and maybe J in counseling when it happens so that they have a safe place to share their feelings without feeling like they are betraying either one of their parents, but seriously, as long as you are both able to put them first, they will be fine. I say this as a child of divorce, from the era of divorce (or so it felt). In my experience, when parents divorce when they realize it's time to divorce, things always work out better for the kids than when people try to stay together for the kids. The most toxic relationships I know are people who stayed together for the kids, divorcing the moment the youngest left the house. And it has carried over into their relationships with their kids as adults. In my experience, staying together for the kids does more damage to the kids than separating.
No one can make this decision for you, but I want to assure you that leaving your husband will not irrevocably destroy your kids. As long as you are both able to parent and be civil to one another, your kids will be fine. They might need some counseling at first, but seriously, kids are happier and healthier when their parents are happier and healthier. And since you are the primary care giver (and will remain so, even in a 50/50 split), your health and happiness is paramount to their's. I'm a child of divorce and have gone through two divorces myself. My kids are as "normal" and well-adjusted as any married couples kids. I do struggle with Ex 2.0 and Carrot probably is effected by the friction, but it is SO MUCH BETTER than if he'd continued living with us and Carrot grew up in that environment of abuse and fighting.
I think the best thing that happened to me is when he landed in jail for 6 months. It was kind of a detox for me. That time of zero contact made me realize how much better life was without that stressor in it. Yeah, I have to do more household stuff and yeah, there are some things I miss about him quite a bit, but the peace and stability for myself and the kids went way up and I'm not willing to sacrifice that for having my meals cooked for me a few times a week and help with snow removal.
I'm not saying you should divorce. All I'm saying is the kids will be JUST FINE if you do.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Apr 2, 2019 10:29:32 GMT -5
I am not divorced, nor are my parents divorced, but I do Attorney for the Child work for NYS Courts and have been doing it for over 10 years.
The only kids of divorce who are "damaged" are the ones where the parents are continuously in conflict even after the divorce, usually due to one parent being a complete asshole, both are complete assholes, or some kind of narcissistic/borderline personality disorder. Those that can step back and co-parent effectivly, those kids seem to do just fine.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 2, 2019 15:56:07 GMT -5
Disappearing in the middle of the night is quite different than divorcing and continuing to co-parent. You have no intention of running off which already makes you better than your friend's ex. I would take her story with a huge grain of salt. Misery loves company and all that.
I would not look for passion somewhere else. I do not believe that your husband would be willing to go along with you having an open marriage and it could end up being fuel at a later date should you choose to file. Plus just in my opinion any guy who is going to give you "passion and romance" while you are still entangled in your marriage is likely not someone who you want "passion and romance" from. Wait on that until you are not so emotionally vulnerable so you don't end up walking into the same situation you are in now or worse.
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geenamercile
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Post by geenamercile on Apr 2, 2019 17:48:04 GMT -5
I read the passion and romance thing more along the lines I what I have. A BOB for self care, and good friends to go out with and laugh with. Talk about how the day went, vent ect....
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oped
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Post by oped on Apr 2, 2019 18:14:55 GMT -5
I call that companionship. My friends are excited to go for taco Tuesday, to listen to music or see a movie. But we would never refer to it as romance and passion...
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Apr 3, 2019 11:29:20 GMT -5
Gira, I've always admired you and how you keep it all together. With 2-3 jobs and 4 kids now, that wouldn't be an easy feat even with a partner that wasn't an addict. I'm sorry you are going through a tough time. Thank you for your kind words. I don't keep it together all the time..I just don't advertise when I have my really bad moments.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Apr 3, 2019 11:50:59 GMT -5
Water- I would strongly encourage you to consider how your decisions will affect your kids not only when they are under 18, but over 18. Parenting doesn't stop when your kids are 18. The stakes for decision-making that happens when your kids are legal, are much much higher.
My parents modeled and actually advocated that a marriage with no emotional intimacy was the best. My mom also made sure were isolated (my parents had no friends, and I was not encouraged to socialize outside of school), so I was not exposed to other lines of thinking until I went to college. Before DH and I got engaged..I knew we didn't have much emotional intimacy in our relationship. It wasn't because we weren't together for very long. We were friends for 5 years before we started being FWB. It WAS a red flag, that I chose to ignore, because the situation was normalized and even valued by my parents.
There isn't a month, now that goes by that I don't wonder how my life would have been different (ie better) if I had really thought about that one red flag and not ignored it.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 3, 2019 13:32:28 GMT -5
DH and are very compatible in a lot of ways it's his maturity that is an issue. I didn't notice it as much when I was 19 or before the kids but as I get older it's exhausting. I want to move up and onward while he's still stuck in his 20's, if that.
Then I realized while pondering things that we were fine there for quite awhile until crisis hit. I lost my job, he lost his job, he got kidney stones and along came Dr. Quack with his scrip pad and we went down hill. It's troubling me to know that I likely never count on DH in a crisis and that he's one step away from creating a brand new one if something should tip us over the edge again.
I also don't like it when people say I am going back on my word when I waffle. I knew he was an addict when we married but he was a RECOVERED addict. There is a major difference between that and an active/relapsed addict. There is no way I could have known how to deal with that till it happened. I do not regret marrying DH but I really wish I had done more homework.
I am not going to tell the girls to never marry an addict, it's up for them to decide. However I am honest with them and will continue to open up as they get older and can grasp some of the nuances of what being married to an addict means. My family is really small and at least at the time did not have an addict in the family when I married DH (my brother fell off the wagon long afterwards) so I didn't know. I want the girls to know exactly what they may be getting themselves into. Even if he's been sober 30 years he's still an addict and there is always the chance. Decide early if you want to spend your life waiting to see if the other shoe drops.
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justme
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Post by justme on Apr 3, 2019 14:38:11 GMT -5
Back on what word? Your word was to a sober person. If anyone went back on their word it was the sober person who backslid into active addiction again.
I have an addict in the family whose been sober longer than I've been alive. But in all my years I've never once heard him take his recovery lightly and brush it off or say it was/is easy. No one in my family would go off on his wife if he relapsed and she was done.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 3, 2019 15:34:07 GMT -5
Back on what word? Your word was to a sober person. If anyone went back on their word it was the sober person who backslid into active addiction again. I have an addict in the family whose been sober longer than I've been alive. But in all my years I've never once heard him take his recovery lightly and brush it off or say it was/is easy. No one in my family would go off on his wife if he relapsed and she was done. Exactly. And it's hard to explain that I can't be like "Well it was just this one time he took drugs, look at how sober he was before and how hard he's trying now". DH and I had a talk about it and he agreed there can be no "little bit" of anything. This issue is black/white. People who aren't married to addicts don't get it. I am not "looking for an excuse to leave" it's each life cycle of of addict has very different properties and what I said when DH is sober/recovered is not the same situation as if he's an active user. It's not the same thing if he's a relapsed user. Right now he's a relapsed user. He's sober again which is great but is still a long way from recovered. If he wants to get there he has to do the work he's never done before and that's attempt to fix what is broken, otherwise he'll go right back to active. If he goes back to being an active user I am gone. I am still wrestling with how long is long enough to see if he makes it to recovered.
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Pants
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Post by Pants on Apr 3, 2019 16:00:16 GMT -5
Back on what word? Your word was to a sober person. If anyone went back on their word it was the sober person who backslid into active addiction again. I have an addict in the family whose been sober longer than I've been alive. But in all my years I've never once heard him take his recovery lightly and brush it off or say it was/is easy. No one in my family would go off on his wife if he relapsed and she was done. Exactly. And it's hard to explain that I can't be like "Well it was just this one time he took drugs, look at how sober he was before and how hard he's trying now". DH and I had a talk about it and he agreed there can be no "little bit" of anything. This issue is black/white. People who aren't married to addicts don't get it. I am not "looking for an excuse to leave" it's each life cycle of of addict has very different properties and what I said when DH is sober/recovered is not the same situation as if he's an active user. It's not the same thing if he's a relapsed user. Right now he's a relapsed user. He's sober again which is great but is still a long way from recovered. If he wants to get there he has to do the work he's never done before and that's attempt to fix what is broken, otherwise he'll go right back to active. If he goes back to being an active user I am gone. I am still wrestling with how long is long enough to see if he makes it to recovered. He's relapsed multiples times in multiple ways, including long stretches of time when you thought he was sober only to find out his mom was slipping him pills. You don't need an excuse to leave. But also, even if you *were* looking for an excuse to leave, I'm pretty sure the years of deception could kind of provide a reason? He's done enough things during that time that if you were looking for a reason to leave, you could take any of them and run. More than anything else, DQ, you seem like someone who is looking for an excuse to stay. He's provided plenty of reasons (much less excuses) that other people might have said "enough" - you're not. You seem like you want to stay, you want this to work. I'm not saying that judgementally at all - but "looking for excuses to leave" - that ain't you.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Apr 3, 2019 16:19:14 GMT -5
Exactly. And it's hard to explain that I can't be like "Well it was just this one time he took drugs, look at how sober he was before and how hard he's trying now". DH and I had a talk about it and he agreed there can be no "little bit" of anything. This issue is black/white. People who aren't married to addicts don't get it. I am not "looking for an excuse to leave" it's each life cycle of of addict has very different properties and what I said when DH is sober/recovered is not the same situation as if he's an active user. It's not the same thing if he's a relapsed user. Right now he's a relapsed user. He's sober again which is great but is still a long way from recovered. If he wants to get there he has to do the work he's never done before and that's attempt to fix what is broken, otherwise he'll go right back to active. If he goes back to being an active user I am gone. I am still wrestling with how long is long enough to see if he makes it to recovered. He's relapsed multiples times in multiple ways, including long stretches of time when you thought he was sober only to find out his mom was slipping him pills. You don't need an excuse to leave. But also, even if you *were* looking for an excuse to leave, I'm pretty sure the years of deception could kind of provide a reason? He's done enough things during that time that if you were looking for a reason to leave, you could take any of them and run. More than anything else, DQ, you seem like someone who is looking for an excuse to stay. He's provided plenty of reasons (much less excuses) that other people might have said "enough" - you're not. You seem like you want to stay, you want this to work. I'm not saying that judgementally at all - but "looking for excuses to leave" - that ain't you. Yeah that! Anyone who thinks Drama is making excuses and/or looking for the easy way out has not been paying attention. It's a shame the in-laws would assign her that motive. They either have a blind spot about their son (people often do) and hold him blameless for his own life, or they are just dumb.
One thing though, and not to put too fine a point on it because maybe this is just a wording/semantics issue - but if you are expecting that he will be recovered, that is never going to happen. Addicts are never recovered, but they can be in recovery. Sometimes for many, many years with great success although I think that's more the exception than the rule.
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justme
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Post by justme on Apr 3, 2019 16:27:04 GMT -5
Back on what word? Your word was to a sober person. If anyone went back on their word it was the sober person who backslid into active addiction again. I have an addict in the family whose been sober longer than I've been alive. But in all my years I've never once heard him take his recovery lightly and brush it off or say it was/is easy. No one in my family would go off on his wife if he relapsed and she was done. Exactly. And it's hard to explain that I can't be like "Well it was just this one time he took drugs, look at how sober he was before and how hard he's trying now". DH and I had a talk about it and he agreed there can be no "little bit" of anything. This issue is black/white. People who aren't married to addicts don't get it. I am not "looking for an excuse to leave" it's each life cycle of of addict has very different properties and what I said when DH is sober/recovered is not the same situation as if he's an active user. It's not the same thing if he's a relapsed user. Right now he's a relapsed user. He's sober again which is great but is still a long way from recovered. If he wants to get there he has to do the work he's never done before and that's attempt to fix what is broken, otherwise he'll go right back to active. If he goes back to being an active user I am gone. I am still wrestling with how long is long enough to see if he makes it to recovered. I feel like some of it is because they either haven't been around much drug use or only was around the fun drug use at college parties and such. I had been around a fair bit of the "not so bad" drugs and they didn't bother me. Until I got caught up with a guy that was an addict. That I didn't know until months in because I guess he found out from mutual friends the night we met that I was more straight laced so he hid it all to get me. He held it together pretty well, mentioned being sober and the old him. Until he got stressed a few months in and then bam I was in a relationship with an addict but I had NO IDEA I was until I finally put stuff together because every other time I was around people using drugs it was the fun side. I didn't realize his mood swings and blackouts and lack of money etc etc for a stupidly long time -- didn't realize I was that naive!! And from start to finish it was less than 5 months. Over a decade later and I still pretty much eliminate any guy who mentions even casual drug use because I just can't go back to that life again. It's hell to be stuck in, especially when people who aren't there alone with them say it's not that bad. You're not crazy for feeling however you feel about it.
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debthaven
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Post by debthaven on Apr 3, 2019 16:51:55 GMT -5
I am not going to tell the girls to never marry an addict, it's up for them to decide.Honestly, Drama, this I don't get. They may anyway, obviously that'll be out of your control when your girls are old enough to get married. But it would only make their lives harder, so why wouldn't you actively discourage them from doing so?! Either they listen, or they don't. But I really don't get why you wouldn't push that, given your history. `
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 3, 2019 17:38:42 GMT -5
I am not going to tell the girls to never marry an addict, it's up for them to decide.Honestly, Drama, this I don't get. They may anyway, obviously that'll be out of your control when your girls are old enough to get married. But it would only make their lives harder, so why wouldn't you actively discourage them from doing so?! Either they listen, or they don't. But I really don't get why you wouldn't push that, given your history. `
I mean I'm not going to have a tantrum and forbid them from seeing or marrying someone when they are adults. I'm certainly not giving my blessing and will tell them the ugly truth but I'm not going to make it a me or him\her decision because I want them to feel they can come home. Recovered addict is someone who has gone thru the treatment/steps to keep things in check. Relapsed is what DH is now he is sober but has taken no real steps towards working on his issues. Active is what DH has been before now. It's a lot more nuanced than this I've been thru some addiction counseling myself and she explained the stages because it's important for me to be able to tell the difference and make decisions accordingly.
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