Opti
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Post by Opti on Jun 28, 2022 6:49:47 GMT -5
What's happening doesn't make sense. I'm not an expert, but I watched my mom deal with multiple facilities for 2 seniors who were self pay for just over 10 years. I'm worried she and you all are being scammed. Neither the facility or the state want to be responsible for her or her house/money. And even if they did, it doesn't move that quickly. It's the director's signature on the paper as a witness.My dad will talk to the lawyer. I'll play my part if and when the time comes. It is the DHHS my dad had to go to the office for questioning. No none of it adds up it has two lawyers confused too. I'm just not sure how deep I want to go. This is a conflict of interest. I did not work at a long term nursing home, but people brought in their own lawyers and witnesses for doc changes. Sometimes they wanted to use employees as witnesses, but I was told not to do so as it could make the facility liable in lawsuits. I think they can use a notary of the facility if one exists. If the notary was from the facility AND the director was the witness the facility this is mostly likely elder abuse by them. I know of only one case that the family was strongly encouraged to change POAs, and did. The current one had mental health issues that the person refused to address. Not sure how much the facility mgmt was involved in that decision, but I'd be shocked if it was on the fishy side. What you are reporting seems like textbook facility abuse to me on the financial side.
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azucena
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Post by azucena on Jun 28, 2022 10:57:26 GMT -5
That's the fighting Drama that we all know and love! Git 'em gurl!
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Jun 28, 2022 14:44:37 GMT -5
Okay I've done a lot of Googling. You guys are right we have a potential elder abuse case and it is NOT us. I've been printing off and highlighting stuff all day. They are trying to get it to where they won't allow grandma to leave. Until and unless a guardian is appointed for her which they cannot do BY LAW without consulting family first she has the right to make her own medical decisions. Even as POA my dad could not put her there against her will unless he has a doctor declaring her unfit. Which as you all know we can't even get one to say she is even in the beginning phases of memory decline let alone she can't make any medical decisions for herself at all. Good thing my mom has the medical records from the nursing home because they say the opposite of what these people are trying to claim about my grandma. They CANNOT assign themselves POA. They cannot be witness to revoke a POA. If my grandma verbally tells me she wants to go home as her granddaughter I have a legal right to take her out of that nursing home TODAY and take her back to Treynor. If could she could PHYSICALLY walk out of there on her own accord and call my dad to pick her up. They cannot hold her in that nursing home against her will. You guys are right they are counting on us not finding this information. They are counting on us giving up because let's be honest having the finger pointed at you claiming you are abusing your mom is pretty damn scary I am sure loads of people back off after that goes flying around. I am going to record our conversation on Saturday and give it to the lawyer. Also BY LAW they cannot prevent any family member from seeing her that includes my dad. That is attempting to isolate the patient and is also hella illegal. The only way my dad could be prevented from seeing her is if she refused OR a court has deemed him a danger to her which I can't see "Well he provided clothes but we didn't want to deal with them so we're saying he doesn't provide them" being grounds to get a restraining order against him. Have you checked out the nursing home with the State to see if there have been other similar complaints? This doesn't sound like their first rodeo.
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CCL
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Post by CCL on Jun 28, 2022 15:52:20 GMT -5
Okay I've done a lot of Googling. You guys are right we have a potential elder abuse case and it is NOT us. I've been printing off and highlighting stuff all day. They are trying to get it to where they won't allow grandma to leave. Until and unless a guardian is appointed for her which they cannot do BY LAW without consulting family first she has the right to make her own medical decisions. Even as POA my dad could not put her there against her will unless he has a doctor declaring her unfit. Which as you all know we can't even get one to say she is even in the beginning phases of memory decline let alone she can't make any medical decisions for herself at all. Good thing my mom has the medical records from the nursing home because they say the opposite of what these people are trying to claim about my grandma. They CANNOT assign themselves POA. They cannot be witness to revoke a POA. If my grandma verbally tells me she wants to go home as her granddaughter I have a legal right to take her out of that nursing home TODAY and take her back to Treynor. If could she could PHYSICALLY walk out of there on her own accord and call my dad to pick her up. They cannot hold her in that nursing home against her will. You guys are right they are counting on us not finding this information. They are counting on us giving up because let's be honest having the finger pointed at you claiming you are abusing your mom is pretty damn scary I am sure loads of people back off after that goes flying around. I am going to record our conversation on Saturday and give it to the lawyer. Also BY LAW they cannot prevent any family member from seeing her that includes my dad. That is attempting to isolate the patient and is also hella illegal. The only way my dad could be prevented from seeing her is if she refused OR a court has deemed him a danger to her which I can't see "Well he provided clothes but we didn't want to deal with them so we're saying he doesn't provide them" being grounds to get a restraining order against him. Have you checked out the nursing home with the State to see if there have been other similar complaints? This doesn't sound like their first rodeo. In Indiana the attorney general website is a good resource for this.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Jun 28, 2022 15:52:27 GMT -5
Drama, has the nursing home recently been bought by a different parent company or is it actually new? If you can find out the company that owned it previously, look for complaints against it.
One of my rep payee clients had her nursing home bought by a parent company. They immediately decided that all residents had to go on a dental plan. Guess who owned the dental plan? Yes, the new parent company. She did have an out of state medical POA and I called her. My client was dying as the POA knew. She didn't need dental care for the few months she had left. The POA ended up writing a letter that said she declined coverage for my client. I accidentally got copied on the emails and they were not happy.
Good luck.
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jerseygirl
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Post by jerseygirl on Jun 28, 2022 16:19:56 GMT -5
Excellent to have 2 lawyers and an Ombudsman on it Is the ombudsman from the state? Or the nursing home?
I’ve been reading this sad story and have seen how very upsetting for you and your Dad. Your most recent post seems more like you’re feeling more in control and not so terribly stressed. Good to see and I’m hoping to read about the nursing home owners being sent to jail
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cooper88
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Post by cooper88 on Jun 28, 2022 18:47:07 GMT -5
I ran this story by the Ombudsman in my region today when we were chatting and she was outraged. I technically fall under the Ombudsman umbrella in my job. I'm not one but the two of us work together a lot.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 28, 2022 19:06:31 GMT -5
Ombudsman for the county.
I kicked it up a notch and found the federal office to complain to.
DH and I are still butting heads. Now he's backtracking from his fight at all cost stance.
Last night I told him shut up and keep his opinions to himself.
She's not his grandma and I'm tired of him trying to insert himself.
I'm not doing this for my grandma if I am being honest. I don't have much of a relationship through her own choosing and this slow moving train wreck is of her doing.
I'm doing it because I love my dad.
That and I'm beyond pissed that DHHS agent deliberately said things he knew would upset anyone to goad me into saying exactly what I said and then using it against me.
Plus the ethics. If they are doing this to grandma what other residents are they doing this to? I can't let that stand knowing what I know.
Stupid code of ethics.
And I'm only going so far as my dad wishes. She isn't my mom and I'm aware of the mental toll this has taken on him. If for his well being I need to let it end I will.
Which DH got pissed at name over but again he's never had to be the problem solver. He can count on his siblings and IS the problem relative a good chunk of the time.
So it's not his place to decide. It's not mine either. It's called respecting boundaries something we're not always very good at. This time I must.
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stillmovingforward
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Post by stillmovingforward on Jun 28, 2022 20:12:22 GMT -5
I'll put $ into the drama bail fund! If she doesn't need it, we'll take her in a pub crawl!
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skeeter
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Post by skeeter on Jun 28, 2022 20:40:34 GMT -5
Would it be better to just take pictures of her shoes on that shelf to prove they are actually there and they are not putting them on her? Just a thought.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 28, 2022 20:49:07 GMT -5
Would it be better to just take pictures of her shoes on that shelf to prove they are actually there and they are not putting them on her? Just a thought. IDK. I'll decide when I get there. I'm going to take pictures of it all. Where they are at, the room, the room number.the shoes they have available to her. My worry is they will go missing. I'll have photo evidence they were there but they will be gone. Those shoes aren't cheap and we may need then to get new ones made. I'd feel more comfortable if they were in my hands. That may be paranoia over how GU has been robbed blind and we had no recourse. I may be able to get them on not allowing her to wear them but if they disappear they are likely gone for good.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Jun 29, 2022 16:56:36 GMT -5
Well this just got a whole lot more ugly. A detective called my parents and have implied my dad faces criminal charges with possible jail time for "stealing" my grandmother's money. WTF is going on?! Is this in response to me escalating it? Is it because we won't go away? If my dad goes away will they finally leave us alone? Because then they can control every movement my grandmother makes and every penny she has? OMFG. And the lawyer wants $1200 for a retainer and that's just the retainer. My parents cannot afford a lengthy court battle and I cannot either. I am going to give my mom the number of legal aid and I think I'll look up Creighton's law school as well they do reduce cost legal aid as well for students to get practice. My dad is terrified out of his mind right now and I don't know what to do to help. Please pray that the federal investigation that I have put into motion leads to something before it's too late. OMG I can't imagine a more bizarre situation. Hopefully, this situation will resolve itself. Your dad has kept good records of the transfers to your uncle, right? And I have to wonder if your grandmother might be playing a part in this. Is it possible that she's saying one thing to you and another to the administrator? I ask because before my dad got his diagnosis of dementia he was saying some pretty bizarre things so he wouldn't have to move to a facility.
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CCL
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Post by CCL on Jun 29, 2022 16:57:10 GMT -5
I'm so sorry Drama. How can they even claim your dad stole money when his name is on the account? It's his own money, too!
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CCL
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Post by CCL on Jun 29, 2022 17:01:00 GMT -5
Well this just got a whole lot more ugly. A detective called my parents and have implied my dad faces criminal charges with possible jail time for "stealing" my grandmother's money. WTF is going on?! Is this in response to me escalating it? Is it because we won't go away? If my dad goes away will they finally leave us alone? Because then they can control every movement my grandmother makes and every penny she has? OMFG. And the lawyer wants $1200 for a retainer and that's just the retainer. My parents cannot afford a lengthy court battle and I cannot either. I am going to give my mom the number of legal aid and I think I'll look up Creighton's law school as well they do reduce cost legal aid as well for students to get practice. My dad is terrified out of his mind right now and I don't know what to do to help. Please pray that the federal investigation that I have put into motion leads to something before it's too late. OMG I can't imagine a more bizarre situation. Hopefully, this situation will resolve itself. Your dad has kept good records of the transfers to your uncle, right? And I have to wonder if your grandmother might be playing a part in this. Is it possible that she's saying one thing to you and another to the administrator? I ask because before my dad got his diagnosis of dementia he was saying some pretty bizarre things so he wouldn't have to move to a facility. But she's already in a facility. Drama and dad are trying to get her out of there. I do think it's possible she's completely confused by all of this, though.
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jerseygirl
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Post by jerseygirl on Jun 29, 2022 17:01:22 GMT -5
Legal aid and the university law school seem good resources Elder abuse on the part of the nursing home Does you dad have copies of the checks for your uncle? If not the bank will give you copies That’s something he can do , might help lower his stress by doing something specific Any records of the money going to grand uncle. There’s nothing criminal about giving a ‘gift’ to a needy relative of both your grandma and your dad Plus your dad is in the account with your grandma. Thinking the detective just checking the boxes. Give him documents!! Both names on account, POA existing at the time, checks , granduncle living with grandma, lunches medical issues etc So sorry for you and dad
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jun 29, 2022 17:07:56 GMT -5
Well this just got a whole lot more ugly. A detective called my parents and have implied my dad faces criminal charges with possible jail time for "stealing" my grandmother's money. WTF is going on?! Is this in response to me escalating it? Is it because we won't go away? If my dad goes away will they finally leave us alone? Because then they can control every movement my grandmother makes and every penny she has? OMFG. And the lawyer wants $1200 for a retainer and that's just the retainer. My parents cannot afford a lengthy court battle and I cannot either. I am going to give my mom the number of legal aid and I think I'll look up Creighton's law school as well they do reduce cost legal aid as well for students to get practice. My dad is terrified out of his mind right now and I don't know what to do to help. Please pray that the federal investigation that I have put into motion leads to something before it's too late. What detective, from where? This does not sound legal but more like how people get threats from collection agencies.
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CCL
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Post by CCL on Jun 29, 2022 17:11:06 GMT -5
I was thinking that, too. It's seems they are trying to scare Drama and family into submission. It would be fairly simple to prove dad is co-owner of the account, then what would there be for the "detective" to be concerned about?
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jun 29, 2022 17:17:08 GMT -5
I'm not sure of the process a facility would go through to declare a POA incompetent or even allege fraud. It would be handled by an agency. There probably would be court dates and lawyers, etc. Not some "detective" calling someone threatening jail time. If anyone else calls, I think the proper response is one of two things-
1) I cannot speak with you on advice of my lawyer. 2) May I have your permission to record this call? If the answer is no, ask why not if everything is legal and above board.
People investigating elder abuse claims are not called detectives. I have forgotten some of my elder abuse course training, but this is super scammy. I'd immediately report this call as a complaint and especially to whatever board regulates these nursing homes in your state and your senator, etc.
The administrator has to post their license in an area viewable by the public. I'd see what agency issued it and give them a call. The administrator is risking fines and loss of their license by these shenanigans.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jun 29, 2022 17:18:02 GMT -5
I was thinking that, too. It's seems they are trying to scare Drama and family into submission. It would be fairly simple to prove dad is co-owner of the account, then what would there be for the "detective" to be concerned about? I don't think there is a detective. I think this is a confederate of the administrator who maybe gets kickback money?
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Jun 29, 2022 17:36:37 GMT -5
Oh, I'm so sorry, Drama.
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jerseygirl
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Post by jerseygirl on Jun 29, 2022 17:40:08 GMT -5
Opt4 has some really good ideas about what’s going on, like the ‘detective’
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jun 29, 2022 17:46:11 GMT -5
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jun 29, 2022 18:37:31 GMT -5
The fact that the administrator may be abusing their power really makes me angry. So, here's more stuff below which might help. Decades ago, NJ had an admissions scandal in a mental health facility. Horrible stuff might have been called Fairview or something like that. ncea.acl.gov/Resources/State.aspx#IowaHelplines, Hotlines, and Referral Sources
To report suspected elder abuse, neglect, or exploitation in Iowa:
800-362-2178 (for suspected elder mistreatment in the home)
877-686-0027 (for suspected elder mistreatment in long-term care facilities)
800-532-3213 (for the State Long-Term Care Ombudsman)
Additional Information
Individuals wishing to report suspected elder mistreatment may telephone the state helpline listed above, or visit the Map of DHS Offices to contact specific county offices directly regarding suspected elder mistreatment in the home.
State elder abuse statistics and/or other publications
State Government Agencies
Iowa Department of Human Services, Dependent Adult Protective Services Program
Iowa Department on Aging, Elder Abuse Prevention and Awareness Program
Iowa Department on Aging, Elder Justice and Adult Protective Services
Iowa Department of Inspections and Appeals
Iowa Long-Term Care Ombudsman
www.hhs.gov/answers/programs-for-families-and-children/how-do-i-report-elder-abuse/index.html
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 29, 2022 19:00:08 GMT -5
Already called the Ombudsman.
Filed with the state DIA department.
Went all the way to the federal DIS level.
I'm not sure our local DHHS isn't in on it since their agent started the whole thing.
My case is being processed. I was surprised the feds responded in less than 24 hours
My mom is working on getting all the bank stuff and receipts. This all happened BEFORE my dad became POA.
I'm theory that should make any legit investigation fall apart and worst case he can't be her POA cause of optics and in that case we've agreed I will be.
But IDK. I'm feeling pretty hopeless I can't imagine how much worse my dad feels.
All because he tried to do right by two stubborn old facts who started this ball rolling decades before.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Jun 29, 2022 19:48:26 GMT -5
Already called the Ombudsman. Filed with the state DIA department. Went all the way to the federal DIS level. I'm not sure our local DHHS isn't in on it since their agent started the whole thing. My case is being processed. I was surprised the feds responded in less than 24 hours My mom is working on getting all the bank stuff and receipts. This all happened BEFORE my dad became POA. I'm theory that should make any legit investigation fall apart and worst case he can't be her POA cause of optics and in that case we've agreed I will be. But IDK. I'm feeling pretty hopeless I can't imagine how much worse my dad feels. All because he tried to do right by two stubborn old facts who started this ball rolling decades before. It sucks that his mom and dear uncle made this so hard for him. Yeah I hope the DHHS agent isn't in on it but there is fraud and crime at every level.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 29, 2022 20:30:21 GMT -5
Already called the Ombudsman. Filed with the state DIA department. Went all the way to the federal DIS level. I'm not sure our local DHHS isn't in on it since their agent started the whole thing. My case is being processed. I was surprised the feds responded in less than 24 hours My mom is working on getting all the bank stuff and receipts. This all happened BEFORE my dad became POA. I'm theory that should make any legit investigation fall apart and worst case he can't be her POA cause of optics and in that case we've agreed I will be. But IDK. I'm feeling pretty hopeless I can't imagine how much worse my dad feels. All because he tried to do right by two stubborn old facts who started this ball rolling decades before. It sucks that his mom and dear uncle made this so hard for him. Yeah I hope the DHHS agent isn't in on it but there is fraud and crime at every level. ThThat'my instinct especially the more I read. IDK if it's the whole damn home or one lone administrator. But then I start doubting myself because of all these other players.. Am I being gaslit or am I wrong? My gut and all my ethics training says I'm not. And I don't believe my dad financially abused my grandma but maybe he did accidentally break the law? But then why does everything about POAs say the they are basically toilet paper until or unless my grandma physically can't consent like in a coma or it can be independently prove she's medically incapable and the a court has to process guardianship? And why does everything say if my dad is co-owner of the account it is considered his money too by the bank? Are they counting on us getting scared? Driving my dad into the grave first and being able to prevent me as granddaughter from stepping in? My work BFF said his family just went through this. They backed off when they were investigated and they threatened to take the parents house as back payments. This was a long lost estranged relative in my coworkers case. State 100% took her word for it and she had the better lawyer. He said now relative is spending all the money and no one can stop her because legal action will be taken since they've been "proven" to be abusers. I strongly suspect that is what this woman is doing with the goal of eventually worming her way into taking over. By then she'll have drug my dad through so much mud there isn't a chance in hell of us ever fixing it. And she'll get me by saying I'm acting in dad's interests so obviously grandma needs protected from me too. The DHHS agent can claim.I abandoned grandma by not immediately stepping up solely based on his words. I am.nkt stopping the complaint process but talking with my mom if it comes down.to they try to prosecute my dad maybe it is better to let grandma go. My dad has too much to lose. This is like stopping a train with your teeth at this point. I will protect my dad at the end of the day. If me letting go is what it takes I will. God I hope the government works in my favor for once.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Jun 29, 2022 21:06:43 GMT -5
If they are going this far, this must involve a very large sum of money. I do hope your dad has receipts for the money he gave to the uncle.
None of this sounds right to me. DHHS does not move this fast unless there has been stuff going on that you don't know about.
When I signed my will last week, she told me that once I go in to a nursing home, my nephew will need to be able to account for every penny spent and that it is spent on me or for my benefit (like selling the house, etc.)
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Jun 29, 2022 21:20:42 GMT -5
Drama.
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CCL
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Post by CCL on Jun 29, 2022 21:45:21 GMT -5
If they are going this far, this must involve a very large sum of money. I do hope your dad has receipts for the money he gave to the uncle. None of this sounds right to me. DHHS does not move this fast unless there has been stuff going on that you don't know about. When I signed my will last week, she told me that once I go in to a nursing home, my nephew will need to be able to account for every penny spent and that it is spent on me or for my benefit (like selling the house, etc.)Countrygirl has told us all many times that she has to do this and files lots of paperwork to go with it.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 29, 2022 22:07:40 GMT -5
But her MIL is actually demented. Sorry if that isn't the correct phrase. She cannot handle her money.
My grandma hasn't even been diagnosed let alone declared incompetent my dad can't find any appointments right now.
So how is it the nursing home has ANY say when she isn't their legal ward and isn't incompetent and is a private pay resident?
Everything I've read says grandma can tell them pound sand she voluntarily gave the money.
Only me and my brother technically should have a case. The nursing home has a massive conflict of interest in this situation.
I'm hoping since my claim has been sent for processing its not rejected and if it's not rejected I'm onto something.
The fact none of this to date has involved the court is what raises red flags. There are channels this must go through the lawyer holding the original POA told me so.
Lawyer 2 confirmed as well they aren't following procedure.
You would think if the abuse claim has any real legs they would be honest. The Ombudsmanhas ZERO investmentin my claims and even she said this is highlysuspect and gave me legal aids number.
The POA lawyer said if he truly suspected my dad was abusing my grandma he never would have offered his services or even spoke to.him about it because he does not represent those type of clients. He hoped that gave me some comfort.
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