jerseygirl
Senior Member
Joined: May 13, 2018 7:43:08 GMT -5
Posts: 4,762
Member is Online
|
Post by jerseygirl on Jun 29, 2022 22:10:17 GMT -5
Maybe you’ll win a $1 million lawsuit for all the stress
|
|
TheOtherMe
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 14:40:52 GMT -5
Posts: 27,146
Mini-Profile Name Color: e619e6
|
Post by TheOtherMe on Jun 30, 2022 8:46:32 GMT -5
I had to do all of that paperwork when I was rep payee. It isn't that hard. I updated my spreadsheet monthly.
Drama, if she hasn't done so, your grandma can also prepay for her funeral or whatever she wants when she passes.
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,215
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 30, 2022 9:37:05 GMT -5
I had to do all of that paperwork when I was rep payee. It isn't that hard. I updated my spreadsheet monthly. Drama, if she hasn't done so, your grandma can also prepay for her funeral or whatever she wants when she passes. She has and it wasn't cheap either. I don't know the exact amount but my mom said it could pay for multiple months of nursing home care. It isn't hard I know but my dad is terrible at paperwork and has been incredibly overwhelmed trying to take care of two old people, one of which doesn't NEED care but refuses to cooperate in being independent and running a business that is slowly trying to sink into the ground due to inflation and COVID. Then on top of that my mom is having eye problems that may lead to blindness if not treated so that is added stress. I know it was boneheaded and a lot of balls were dropped. Clearly my dad either didn't understand or nobody bothered to explain clearly (I'm starting to lean towards it's the latter) exactly what being POA implied. From what the lawyer said my dad couldn't even technically enforce the POA at the moment because my grandma is capable of making decisions so anything regarding her care or expenses is 100% her business. Setting up the POA was so when/if the day comes she has progressed to where she can't even remember who she is THEN he can step in. From literally everything I have read the nursing home has no grounds to do what they are doing. That is what is confusing me. The STATE can do it but that is only if she is on Medicaid or they have appointed her a guardian or rep payee. Which as far as we know they have not. If the money is gone they can sue for the equivalent amount from her estate upon her death but you can't get blood from a turnip. Or if we tried to apply in the 5 year look back period they could deny her claim saying we moved assets. Which considering she has the money to pay the bill beyond 5 years is not really a concern. Again according to everything we read the nursing home cannot demand that my dad account for every penny. WE can demand THEY give us an itemized listing of expenses but since she is private pay whatever happens outside of the check they get for payment is supposed to be none of their business. I am starting to get concerned someone tried to file Medicaid on her behalf. Once again we can't get ahold of that information because unless we are her legal guardian or she has given the Medicaid office written permission to talk to us they have to talk to her directly. THEN HOW CAN THE NURSING HOME SAY SHE IS INCOMPETENT WE ARE ABUSING HER?! ARGH!
|
|
skeeter
Well-Known Member
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 22:06:35 GMT -5
Posts: 1,289
|
Post by skeeter on Jun 30, 2022 10:01:13 GMT -5
Just for informational purposes, there are basically two different types of POA's. One is effective only upon incapacitation, which states that at the beginning of the document and you need doctor statement/s to prove person cannot act for themselves, and the other is effective immediately after it is signed and notarized. Really sorry your family is going through this nightmare
|
|
Sharon
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 22:48:11 GMT -5
Posts: 11,143
|
Post by Sharon on Jun 30, 2022 10:09:25 GMT -5
Drama did you Dad get the name of the detective that called him and has anyone verified that he is actually a detective?
|
|
TheOtherMe
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 14:40:52 GMT -5
Posts: 27,146
Mini-Profile Name Color: e619e6
|
Post by TheOtherMe on Jun 30, 2022 11:05:40 GMT -5
Again
|
|
CCL
Junior Associate
Joined: Jan 4, 2011 19:34:47 GMT -5
Posts: 7,591
|
Post by CCL on Jun 30, 2022 13:14:04 GMT -5
You will get through this and it will get better.
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,215
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 30, 2022 14:05:30 GMT -5
You will get through this and it will get better. I had a really long talk with an EAP person. She helped re-center me as much as possible can be done at the moment. She said based on what I am describing she too would be alarmed and that I was right to follow my instincts. I said I feel like I am being gas lit but NOT by the people I would expect (my parents). I said my decades in research and having to undergo ethics training every year are screaming at me that the nursing home is shady but there is a voice going in my brain "But they are threatening charges if there isn't something. Ignore the 20 papers deep stack of evidence, two lawyers and an Ombudsman you have saying the nursing home is suspect. You can't trust anyone!" I am so turned around that I spent 30 minutes this morning convinced I had fallen for a scam when reporting my complaint federally. I then spent another 30 minutes trying to find "proof" I had been scammed. Well I haven't it was a .gov email, everything came secure, all the addresses and phone numbers line up with everything. I did it right but that is how deep down the conspiracy wormhole I've been traveling in the past 24 hours. She said I am not wrong to wish my grandmother and GU would hurry up and die (though no it's not nice) it is a reaction to decades of dysfunction. It is also not wrong of me to decide that I have washed my hands of it after this and let the state appointment someone if that is what I need to do for my mental health. And that I am right to consider the long term outcome. DH is 10 years older than me, my parents are in my 60s. My priority needs to be them at some point and not wanting to take on grandma now only to be overwhelmed or have to get out of it later is not wrong. I'm also not wrong with how I feel about DH right now because he keeps pressuring me to "fight for family" but then the moment it really became a fight now he wants to not be involved. It's a little late. Should I involve him in whatever happens from here? Yes but she is my grandmother, it is my life and I have the right to decide if I want to say let the state appointment one. Because I'm fairly confident that my dad will never be allowed to again even if he wins. My brother sure as hell isn't going to he hasn't had anything to do with her since grandpa died for his own reasons. So that leaves me me or no family. I am back to leaning towards no family. I do not want this burden. It would be one thing for my parents or DH. Yes all I know is I need to keep records and not spend a single dime on anything but the fucking home but it's the fact I've watched my dad go through this over one misstep and the fact that I am hyper aware they will be looking for a reason to pounce on me. I don't need the stress of having to be practically perfect for shit that is not of my concern. If she wanted it that way she should have done it all right the first time shortly after grandpa died. She didn't. I'm not throwing myself under a train for her and hoping I don't get smooshed. For now I need to focus on what I can do now and remember that the wheels are going to turn slow. She said protect my grandma as I can by continuing to see her and record everything I do. Listen to the lawyer, show up when I am told to and that is all the control I have.
|
|
bean29
Junior Associate
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 22:26:57 GMT -5
Posts: 9,920
|
Post by bean29 on Jun 30, 2022 14:51:33 GMT -5
Hugs Drama! I am so sorry you are going through this. I suspect nothing will come of this. They are making an issue b/c your Dad gave $ to your Great Uncle at you Grandmother's direction? How can they make an issue of this when your Dad is co-owner of the account? Has anyone addressed that for you?
|
|
|
Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jun 30, 2022 15:10:27 GMT -5
Is it possible to set up some voice activated recording device in her room? I also suggest that your dad start recording all phone calls he receives. At the very least, it gives him a way of remind him of names and what is said.
I am appalled at what’s going on here and I can’t imagine it. This is like a scene out of a bad movie.
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,215
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 30, 2022 15:21:35 GMT -5
Is it possible to set up some voice activated recording device in her room? I also suggest that your dad start recording all phone calls he receives. At the very least, it gives him a way of remind him of names and what is said. I am appalled at what’s going on here and I can’t imagine it. This is like a scene out of a bad movie. IDk. I am not sure if that is even legal. You have to have at least one party consent in Iowa. I am not sure installing a Google Dot or Alexa counts as grandma giving permission. They cannot stop me from recording while visiting her though. As long as I agree to have DH roll camera it's legal only one party needs to acknowledge and approve. They cannot by law refuse to allow me to not visit her and they cannot refuse to allow me to visit her privately. If we get a lawyer involved I assuming at that point all communication goes through him and we're to direct it to him and not speak to anyone. He's a family member of ours and is a very good well known criminal lawyer in the city. Maybe knowing we have a lawyer will get them to back off because they probably aren't expecting that.
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,215
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 30, 2022 16:22:00 GMT -5
I added to my story with my federal complaint it said I have the option to. I put down concerns about Medicaid fraud because they have been pushing my parents to apply for it saying she has to go on it in 18 months or else. My grandma has enough in assets to pay for at least another 5 years out of her own pocket, if not more than that. That is not including the value of the house. She'll likely never spend down her assets before she dies. So why are they pushing so hard for us to apply when she clearly doesn't qualify? I am hoping the more of my story I record the more likely it is someone will look into it. It does sound like a B Lifetime movie at this point.
|
|
|
Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jun 30, 2022 18:11:54 GMT -5
I added to my story with my federal complaint it said I have the option to. I put down concerns about Medicaid fraud because they have been pushing my parents to apply for it saying she has to go on it in 18 months or else. My grandma has enough in assets to pay for at least another 5 years out of her own pocket, if not more than that. That is not including the value of the house. She'll likely never spend down her assets before she dies. So why are they pushing so hard for us to apply when she clearly doesn't qualify?I am hoping the more of my story I record the more likely it is someone will look into it. It does sound like a B Lifetime movie at this point. So they can double dip, would be my guess. They get all your grandma’s assets plus Medicaid.
|
|
jerseygirl
Senior Member
Joined: May 13, 2018 7:43:08 GMT -5
Posts: 4,762
Member is Online
|
Post by jerseygirl on Jun 30, 2022 19:42:51 GMT -5
I added to my story with my federal complaint it said I have the option to. I put down concerns about Medicaid fraud because they have been pushing my parents to apply for it saying she has to go on it in 18 months or else. My grandma has enough in assets to pay for at least another 5 years out of her own pocket, if not more than that. That is not including the value of the house. She'll likely never spend down her assets before she dies. So why are they pushing so hard for us to apply when she clearly doesn't qualify?I am hoping the more of my story I record the more likely it is someone will look into it. It does sound like a B Lifetime movie at this point. So they can double dip, would be my guess. They get all your grandma’s assets plus Medicaid. Good observation! Crooks are very ingenious sadly
|
|
skeeter
Well-Known Member
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 22:06:35 GMT -5
Posts: 1,289
|
Post by skeeter on Jun 30, 2022 20:03:20 GMT -5
Guess I missed something along the way. What happened to the attorney who was going to help your family pro bono? It sucks that you have to pay to defend yourselves against crap like this !!
|
|
CCL
Junior Associate
Joined: Jan 4, 2011 19:34:47 GMT -5
Posts: 7,591
|
Post by CCL on Jun 30, 2022 20:04:23 GMT -5
There's something called a qui tam lawsuit that's used in Medicare and Medicaid fraud. You might want to look into it.
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,215
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jun 30, 2022 20:13:09 GMT -5
Guess I missed something along the way. What happened to the attorney who was going to help your family pro bono? It sucks that you have to pay to defend yourselves against crap like this !! Apparently that was just advice. To possibly defend in court it's the retainer then whatever hours billed to cover it all. I get it lawyer's are a business and he's got bills to pay. I just think about how many people end up up a s shit creek without a paddle because they aren't fortunate enough to find 3 grand on.the fly. So at least I'm in a spot to do that. We're fairly privileged we can get this far. Most people can't.
|
|
swamp
Community Leader
Don't be a fool. Call me!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,307
|
Post by swamp on Jun 30, 2022 20:53:07 GMT -5
If they are going this far, this must involve a very large sum of money. I do hope your dad has receipts for the money he gave to the uncle. None of this sounds right to me. DHHS does not move this fast unless there has been stuff going on that you don't know about. When I signed my will last week, she told me that once I go in to a nursing home, my nephew will need to be able to account for every penny spent and that it is spent on me or for my benefit (like selling the house, etc.)Countrygirl has told us all many times that she has to do this and files lots of paperwork to go with it. She’s a court appointed guardian.
|
|
CCL
Junior Associate
Joined: Jan 4, 2011 19:34:47 GMT -5
Posts: 7,591
|
Post by CCL on Jun 30, 2022 22:18:44 GMT -5
I know she is. Just giving another example.
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,215
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 2, 2022 9:18:21 GMT -5
So on top of everything it came out that DHs father is "very disappointed" in him for helping my dad and not being "man enough" to demand more answers from me.
I'm sorry but this is between me and my husband. Those bonds belong to DH to do.as he wishes.
And really THIS is what disappoints you about him?! I know that's mean but given my husband's past this is seriously where you draw the line?
I'm going to try to be gracious. FIL is likely getting depressed and is struggling with being a widower and facing his own mortality.
So he lashed out at DH and there is 30+ years of frustration behind it.
But it doesn't make me less angry on Dhs behalf. What my husband and I discuss behind closed doors is none of his business.
He can have his opinion the EAP lady reminded me everyone has their right to it. Doesn't mean I have to take it.
But DH sure has taken it to heart.
So much chaos.
|
|
stillmovingforward
Senior Member
Hanging on by a thread
Joined: Jan 1, 2014 21:52:58 GMT -5
Posts: 3,066
Today's Mood: Don't Mess with Me!
Location: Not Sure Yet
|
Post by stillmovingforward on Jul 2, 2022 9:50:13 GMT -5
So on top of everything it came out that DHs father is "very disappointed" in him for helping my dad and not being "man enough" to demand more answers from me. I'm sorry but this is between me and my husband. Those bonds belong to DH to do.as he wishes. And really THIS is what disappoints you about him?! I know that's mean but given my husband's past this is seriously where you draw the line? I'm going to try to be gracious. FIL is likely getting depressed and is struggling with being a widower and facing his own mortality. So he lashed out at DH and there is 30+ years of frustration behind it. But it doesn't make me less angry on Dhs behalf. What my husband and I discuss behind closed doors is none of his business. He can have his opinion the EAP lady reminded me everyone has their right to it. Doesn't mean I have to take it. But DH sure has taken it to heart. So much chaos. I'm so sorry! This is something you do not want or deserve right now.
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,215
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 2, 2022 9:59:01 GMT -5
I don't care about me let them think what they want.
DH doesn't deserve that. He offered before I could even swallow my pride and ask.
It was a no strings attached gift to his wife.
If I had the money I would do the same for DH. It's not my place to be judge and jury if he came to me as desperate as I came to him I would sign the check.
Ask questions later. At the end of the day it's just money. We aren't taking out a loan against the house or raiding retirement accounts for Pete's sake.
And it is understood this is a one time amount we can't help any further in that regard. Nobody is asking us to finance a war.
FIL has valid reasons to be disappointed in DH but this isn't one of them. It's the first time in years I felt like I had an actual partner instead of a third kid.
|
|
countrygirl2
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 7, 2016 15:45:05 GMT -5
Posts: 16,871
|
Post by countrygirl2 on Jul 2, 2022 10:08:26 GMT -5
I don't understand this at all. That makes no sense. If she is private pay she can do whatever with her money. And if your dad is cosignor of her account he can too. Now they might warn he and she of the consequences of the 5 year look back and stuff, but that is their business.
They have no basis to have him arrested unless I'm missing something. I wouldn't be to worried about that, sounds like a baseless threat. Can't she just ask to transfer to a different nursing home?
Most of the people in nursing homes have no assets so in that instance is different. But if they gift assets all that happens is they determine the time period and make the person pay out of pocket for that period of time. At least that is in Indiana. I looked into it to see what happens because we have talked about that. And if she has enough money to pay it for years it doesn't matter anyway. And that is her business. Only when medicaid comes in is it a problem.
I sure wouldn't stress over your dad getting arrested. Who is going to do that?
I would ask to sit down with the administrator of the home and talk to them. I was stressing over the $2400 they tried to bill me and when the state nor the nursing home could explain and they kept telling me I just owed it, I kept asking them why and also for a billing. Either they could not or would not give it to me so finally wrote it off. I still think the other billing person made a mistake and it was someone elses charges.
Don't give up. Also you can file a complaint with your state, they may be happy to kick her out if you keep it up. In the meantime look for another place, perhaps a doctor can help you get her transferred, that sounds like the solution to me. How did she end up in that one anyway?
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,215
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 2, 2022 10:29:08 GMT -5
She fell last Thanksgiving. Due to COVID and staffing this was the only opening and since she was sent from the hospital they picked.
We're worried about arrest because a CB police detective is involved and has told us he is building his case against my dad and has been extremely hostile you'd think my dad locked up grandma in the basement the way this detective is acting.
The lawyer is handling it. The nursing home has backed themselves into a corner.
By filing all these claims and sending their alleged proof my grandma doesn't want us involved while at the same time claiming they are doing this because she isn't competent there is now no way to access her money.
The banks won't let anyone touch the account its all frozen now pending the conclusion of the detectives investigation into the nursing home's claims.
Maybe they might be willing to talk if they realize this didn't result in them getting access it is going to cost them payment.
|
|
CCL
Junior Associate
Joined: Jan 4, 2011 19:34:47 GMT -5
Posts: 7,591
|
Post by CCL on Jul 2, 2022 11:14:13 GMT -5
Wonder how they will like it when they realize she can't pay the bills due to her accounts being frozen? Maybe they will ask her to leave?
So is that detective claiming your dad somehow assaulted grandma? It doesn’t seem like there are any financial crimes he can come up with.
I've learned from experience, the less you tell people (especially family!) about your business, the better off you will be.
Again, I'm so sorry you are going through all this.
|
|
countrygirl2
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 7, 2016 15:45:05 GMT -5
Posts: 16,871
|
Post by countrygirl2 on Jul 2, 2022 11:48:09 GMT -5
By filing all these claims and sending their alleged proof my grandma doesn't want us involved while at the same time claiming they are doing this because she isn't competent there is now no way to access her money.
Is she or isn't she competent? She may be mad because she is there and saying things not realizing the ramifications. Just guessing. Isn't she the one that wanted to move way out away from all of you and then had no help?
I can see some social worker doing this thinking it's elder abuse. I can also see some nursing home going after the money. I'm sure they get more from patient pay. I did not realize a detective was involved in it. Do you have former check copies showing she has been giving this uncle money before and continuously?
Can you get her to talk to the attorney and say that she asked your dad to write the check? Can she write checks and sign them still?? Can you get her to sign an affidavit with the social worker or whomever present saying she asked him to do this?
|
|
countrygirl2
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 7, 2016 15:45:05 GMT -5
Posts: 16,871
|
Post by countrygirl2 on Jul 2, 2022 11:51:46 GMT -5
I can see MIL doing something like this in the early stages. We went to court and got guardianship, the poor woman agreed and I'm sure she didn't even realize what she was agreeing too. Only then could we handle her affairs. We did the same for DD. I still have to produce copies of the paperwork all the time but without it our hands would have been tied. We took them to court with us, the attorney said we could still do it even if they had not gone but then a lot more is involved, I guess. That I don't know because thankfully we didn't have to go that route.
|
|
Opti
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 10:45:38 GMT -5
Posts: 39,690
Location: New Jersey
Mini-Profile Name Color: c28523
Mini-Profile Text Color: 990033
Member is Online
|
Post by Opti on Jul 2, 2022 15:59:48 GMT -5
So on top of everything it came out that DHs father is "very disappointed" in him for helping my dad and not being "man enough" to demand more answers from me. I'm sorry but this is between me and my husband. Those bonds belong to DH to do.as he wishes. And really THIS is what disappoints you about him?! I know that's mean but given my husband's past this is seriously where you draw the line? I'm going to try to be gracious. FIL is likely getting depressed and is struggling with being a widower and facing his own mortality. So he lashed out at DH and there is 30+ years of frustration behind it. But it doesn't make me less angry on Dhs behalf. What my husband and I discuss behind closed doors is none of his business. He can have his opinion the EAP lady reminded me everyone has their right to it. Doesn't mean I have to take it. But DH sure has taken it to heart. So much chaos. Sorry. Odds are FIL is lashing out at DH because of his own issues. As you know, but maybe you can get DH to believe it. Very stressful time for all of you. I remain shocked at what this nursing home has done to your dad.
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,215
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 2, 2022 17:19:25 GMT -5
Well my dad has her financial records going back to pioneer days. Good thing she's a wizard at paperwork.
And it's also something GU was good at his records show the exact amount my dad says was given for his care.
So hopefully that is something. My mom has all her medical records including the nursing home that show my grandmother has not been evaluated by an independent doctor or declared incompetent in any fashion.
Which means by law she maintains autonomy and verbal permission is enough.
Dad did nothing wrong. Hopefully if it makes it to actual court they see that.
Grandma couldn't remember signing the original POA either today. Ugh.
She doesn't know what that paper is though either. I'm hoping that is a counterpoint because their claim is the original was done to take advantage she couldn't consent.
Well three weeks later she's not suddenly going to consent to you revoking it then.
If she can't consent she can't consent.
She DOES remember helping Das and GU but can't remember amounts. I told her that's okay the fact she says she remembers is enough.
I recorded it. Not sure it helps us but it'll keep my recollection straight which I need to write down.
Hopefully even if it isn't perfect the lawyer can help fix all this and make it go away. Then hopefully we can move her far away from.this place.
In a perfect world my complaints bear fruit and their world comes crashing down but that's only in movies. I'm hoping I at least give them a black eye.
|
|
TheOtherMe
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 14:40:52 GMT -5
Posts: 27,146
Mini-Profile Name Color: e619e6
|
Post by TheOtherMe on Jul 2, 2022 17:40:57 GMT -5
At her age and with what the nursing home is doing, I'm glad she remembered about helping your dad and grand uncle. I think in a place like that, it's hard to keep the day of the week straight let alone remember what you signed and/or said. They are trying to keep her confused. ETA: They were raised like my parents. Mom had check registers, bank statements, etc. going back to the beginning of time. In digging around with my genealogy, I have canceled checks my grandfather wrote and he died before I was born.
|
|