Aging Parent Support Thread

[lurkyloo]

And now she’s blaming me for restrictions (telling her she needs to get a ride not drive), climbing up and down the basement stairs which were 80% of the reason for getting an aide, and bonus making wants to be dead bc I’m restricting her comments.

I’m stepping back and letting OB take over here.  Apparently this is my line in the sand (and she is never ever going to talk to my kid again with that kind of commentary).  Things are set up well enough that OB should be able to manage, all he needs to do is transition the aides up as home health transitions down and have his friend stop by regularly….possibly report her to the dmv that they need to review her driving capability. But I’ll text the wife of the other friend and ask her to guilt OB into stepping up.

[azucena]

Ugh, lurky. Sorry it's come to this. You've done what you can.

One of my friends used to ask the doctor to write down restrictions to send home with her dad so it was more doctor's fault than hers. She would ask for two copies so she'd always have one when he inevitably 'lost' it.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Absolutely nothing wrong with saying Fuck it.  I've noticed that the people who assure you that you are "doing the right thing" and that it's "just signing papers/setting up appointments" aren't exactly lining up to volunteer for the role.

Because it is WAY more than that and to have to deal with verbal abuse on top of it?

I get being scared and frustrated to lose your independence but that doesn't mean that they should have the right to treat the people trying to help them like garbage.

Put on your own oxygen mask first.  If it is too much to take on then it is perfectly acceptable to make someone else do it.

Even when people cooperate it's hard.  SIL got much more cooperation from MIL/FIL and has had the help of DH and BIL.   It's still has been and continues to be A LOT of work for her.  I've told her multiple times she should be charging DH for having to hold his hand through settling the estate.

Elder care is not for the faint hearted.  It doesn't make you weak or a bad person/daughter to decide you're not up for it.  I'm pretty sure part of the reason I've gone grey as fast as I have is elder care.

[lurkyloo]

I mean, there are ways around this.  I’m just not willing to employ them because things aren’t going to change and she isn’t going to change and why am I killing myself to keep her safe and in her house if I just get abuse for it?

Texted OB’s friend’s wife and forwarded all the info I’d already sent OB. OBFW wanted to know whether she was on antidepressants bc of the suicide threats    I basically told OBFW to pull the other one.  At this point I don’t even care anymore-live or don’t live but knock it the fuck off trying to make other people responsible for YOUR choices and your issues.

[raeoflyte]

I'm so sorry lurkyloo.

[bookkeeper]

Sept 19, 2024 11:19:56 GMT -5 lurkyloo said:

I mean, there are ways around this.  I’m just not willing to employ them because things aren’t going to change and she isn’t going to change and why am I killing myself to keep her safe and in her house if I just get abuse for it?

Texted OB’s friend’s wife and forwarded all the info I’d already sent OB. OBFW wanted to know whether she was on antidepressants bc of the suicide threats    I basically told OBFW to pull the other one.  At this point I don’t even care anymore-live or don’t live but knock it the fuck off trying to make other people responsible for YOUR choices and your issues.

My father died a long, slow death from stage 4 cancer.  As he lost his health and his independence, I tried to be the help my parents needed.  People get frustrated and tempers can flare.  What helped me through that time was thinking similar to yours.

I reasoned that there were thousands of decisions that led up to the state of his health that we were dealing with now, and that I got to make exactly none of them.  My father chose to drink whiskey daily, smoke and overeat to his hearts content.  We are a sumtotal of our choices.

[bookkeeper]

Going to see Mom tomorrow.  Her ticket to TX is in two weeks.  I will help her pack her bag and clean up her apartment before her travel day.  My youngest brother has volunteered to take her to the airport.  I am leaning towards letting that happen.  He and his wife travel frequently, so they know the drill.  Anything can happen in two weeks, we will see.

I sincerely hope she can live on her terms this winter in TX.  She takes a lot of vitamins and supplements, now if we could only get her to drink water.....

[bookkeeper]

Sept 19, 2024 11:19:56 GMT -5 lurkyloo said:

I mean, there are ways around this.  I’m just not willing to employ them because things aren’t going to change and she isn’t going to change and why am I killing myself to keep her safe and in her house if I just get abuse for it?

Texted OB’s friend’s wife and forwarded all the info I’d already sent OB. OBFW wanted to know whether she was on antidepressants bc of the suicide threats    I basically told OBFW to pull the other one.  At this point I don’t even care anymore-live or don’t live but knock it the fuck off trying to make other people responsible for YOUR choices and your issues.

I have had to pull back from caring for my parents at times.  Usually, the reality of having to handle their own problems with their own resources was enough for them to come back around asking for help within a week or two.  Do you want to see your parent suffer?  No.  Does your parent need to face a new reality,  Yes.  Hang in there, but stand up for yourself.

[lurkyloo]

Sept 19, 2024 20:35:35 GMT -5 bookkeeper said:

Sept 19, 2024 11:19:56 GMT -5 lurkyloo said:

I mean, there are ways around this.  I’m just not willing to employ them because things aren’t going to change and she isn’t going to change and why am I killing myself to keep her safe and in her house if I just get abuse for it?

Texted OB’s friend’s wife and forwarded all the info I’d already sent OB. OBFW wanted to know whether she was on antidepressants bc of the suicide threats    I basically told OBFW to pull the other one.  At this point I don’t even care anymore-live or don’t live but knock it the fuck off trying to make other people responsible for YOUR choices and your issues.

I have had to pull back from caring for my parents at times.  Usually, the reality of having to handle their own problems with their own resources was enough for them to come back around asking for help within a week or two.  Do you want to see your parent suffer?  No.  Does your parent need to face a new reality,  Yes.  Hang in there, but stand up for yourself.

I know you’re trying to be helpful, but I really need to not be pressured to take responsibility here.

My nuclear family is pretty toxic. I have been mostly no contact with my mother for most of the last 18 years for good reason. Part of that is that she always, always always puts me last. I won’t sacrifice my mental health and I won’t let my kid anywhere near this suicide threat crap.

I’ve done enough to get the crisis smoothed over. OB can do anything remotely that I can-not as well, but well enough.  I’ll support or research if he asks for help but I’ve done far more already than anyone had any right to ask much less expect of me.  I get to step back permanently and no one gets to guilt me about it.

[TheOtherMe]

I agree lurkyloo  

If you remember I stepped back from caring for my dad and only took him grocery shopping because I would come home and cry the rest of the day.

In my situation, it was because I didn't think my sister, who was the POA, was getting him the care he needed.  All the things that happened in the last 6 weeks of his life, showed that I was correct.  

It's one of many reasons I have very little contact with her.  

I do not feel guilty.  I could not stand to watch what was happening to my dad and know he needed more help and I could do nothing about it.

[lurkyloo]

I think you probably had a decent relationship with your dad though, which is more than I can say for me and my mother…

At the end of the day, good enough is plenty.  I don’t need to optimize everything possible for her.

I have trouble with boundaries too.  I always wind up giving too much and finding myself under appreciated, screwed over and generally shat upon.  I am also low-no contact with YB, since he and his wife were all too happy to validate and participate in my mother’s pushing me to the back burner (really off the stove entirely).  Have had basically no contact with OB for more than 30 years, as he was physically and emotionally abusive starting in early teens or so.  My mother always maintained that that was my fault for being annoying and rolled her eyes at me for not sucking it up and pretending everything was perfect.

This time I’m going to try to take the early warning and exit now, before further deterioration.  Just because I’m awesome and competent doesn’t mean they deserve my effort.  Especially when it means taking attention and energy away from DH, DS and PP.

[finnime]

Yes, lurkyloo. You are awesome and competent and owe your time and attention to your immediate family and to yourself.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Absolutely no guilt here from me.

It is unfortunate things end up the way Theo do sometimes but you reap what you sow.

Nobody should feel obligated to take this stuff on simply because they were born. We shouldn't exist because we're our parents back up plan.

Or entire plan for elder care.

I will warn you it could come back at some point. The state doesn't want to be in charge so if it funds someone related there ya go.

Despite every effort my dad still got assigned to GU in the end.

This is not to say you have to do it now. I'm just saying be aware.

[giramomma]

Lurky. Oh I get it. You are doing the right thing by stepping back.

That is one thing I learned. It's OK to change things up. If something worked last week, great! If it doesn't work today, I can adjust accordingly to keep myself safe(r). Nothing is set in stone. And that is just fine. 

My mom is not allowed to talk to my kids. If mom is in a good mood, she'll just get a benign jab about it. When she's deep in her shit. though. It's bad.

Either way, there's no way we're having a discussion about why the situation is the way it is.

If we have a discussion, my mom will somehow think then that she gets say. Like, she's entitled because she's the mother, and that affords her whatever she thinks it does.

And I also don't have the patience to explain to a 80 year old why
1) Threatening to kill ourselves routinely in conversations is inappropriate
2) Telling your child who is dealing with cancer that they will die before you is not supportive
3) Telling your child that getting a kid like them is one of the worst things that could ever happen to them (the parent).

AND, if I tried to say, that is why you don't get to talk to my kids, my mom would say "Oh, I would never do that to them." (I mean, shit, even a therapist tried to tell me that.)

And then it's just a giant pissing contest. It gets all grey. Like, why is it OK for me to hold my past against my mom, but not against my husband. And then there's the explaining/justifying. Which will go nowhere.

Here's the thing though. As an adult, and a parent. I am the one that gets to make decisions about my kids. And really, that's just the end of the story. There's no debating, discussing, or trying to sway me to think otherwise.

I'm an adult. That's all the justification I need. 

[raeoflyte]

You've gone above and beyond already lurkyloo. Can you block some phone #'s and set an email to go to your dh to screen (if needed?)

[lurkyloo]

Sept 20, 2024 10:17:39 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

I agree lurkyloo   

If you remember I stepped back from caring for my dad and only took him grocery shopping because I would come home and cry the rest of the day.

In my situation, it was because I didn't think my sister, who was the POA, was getting him the care he needed.  All the things that happened in the last 6 weeks of his life, showed that I was correct.  

It's one of many reasons I have very little contact with her.  

I do not feel guilty.  I could not stand to watch what was happening to my dad and know he needed more help and I could do nothing about it.

I don’t necessarily need to turn this into the me me me show…
Just wanted to say, the pain you went through with your dad’s decline and your sister’s indifference/denial/negligence was palpable to those of us on the board.  I hope you know we are and were there to listen, just like we love your stories about J the Toddler 

[lurkyloo]

raeoflyte I’m not ready to go nuclear.  I’ll support if necessary. I just won’t be the primary go to.  OB was going to follow up on the PCP’s suggestion of a geriatric case manager which I think is a fabulous idea, someone local and on the ground to deal with things.

Drama:  if they’re going by recruiting blood relatives against their wills YB is totally going to be the one on the hook 

giramomma we appreciate your wisdom even as it makes me cringe a little for whining about my less severe issues.

[giramomma]

Please don't cringe. Your mom isn't exactly a bed of roses, either.

I can step back. I don't want you to feel like somehow your things are less. They aren't. Just different.

[TheOtherMe]

Sept 20, 2024 11:55:55 GMT -5 lurkyloo said:

Sept 20, 2024 10:17:39 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

I agree lurkyloo   

If you remember I stepped back from caring for my dad and only took him grocery shopping because I would come home and cry the rest of the day.

In my situation, it was because I didn't think my sister, who was the POA, was getting him the care he needed.  All the things that happened in the last 6 weeks of his life, showed that I was correct.  

It's one of many reasons I have very little contact with her.  

I do not feel guilty.  I could not stand to watch what was happening to my dad and know he needed more help and I could do nothing about it.

I don’t necessarily need to turn this into the me me me show…
Just wanted to say, the pain you went through with your dad’s decline and your sister’s indifference/denial/negligence was palpable to those of us on the board.  I hope you know we are and were there to listen, just like we love your stories about J the Toddler 

I do know people here listend and I know chiver78 would send me word puzzles for him.  I needed a place to vent and it was here--just like this summer with the skin cancer.

And yes, I adore J and hope he is in a better mood on Sunday.  We may have to switch times because his bedtime is much earlier now that he's in real school and has to be at the bus stop at a certain time.  I think part of the problem was it was already past his bedtime and he still needed to take a bath.  

[raeoflyte]

My parents asked to go through their estate docs. It gave them more of a to-do list than anything else but I was able to tell them to put mine in a trust which they were hesitant to do but I would prefer.

Hopefully none of this is needed any time soon but I dont know what questions to ask or think about. I know where the notebook is with the road map and the lawyers info. They've done the leg work and have living wills, wills, trusts, beneficiaries, etc. We talked about the stuff that's important to them and what isn't. I feel like we have a chat every year to stay on the same page and that's about as good as you can get. What am I missing?

[lurkyloo]

Sept 20, 2024 12:54:15 GMT -5 giramomma said:

Please don't cringe. Your mom isn't exactly a bed of roses, either.

I can step back. I don't want you to feel like somehow your things are less. They aren't. Just different.

Last I checked this was the aging parent support thread, not the lurky whines about her life thread    I hope you will continue to share and get support.

She tried to send her aide home early Sunday, the service called me, I called and in the process yelled at her for sending a nasty email.  She denied having done any such thing.  There was a reason I stepped back…

OB commented let him know what he could do to support when I sent a list of upcoming appointments    I told him he needed to arrange transportation and remind her.  The duh was implied.  I’ll follow up to see whether he did anything about a geriatric case manager bc I think that’s going to wind up being potentially really useful.

I will probably need to call her tomorrow to figure out what groceries to order from meijer, I want them delivered while the aide is there Wed morning bc she doesn’t always remember to put them away.  Not looking forward to it.

[lurkyloo]

Sept 23, 2024 9:19:06 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

My parents asked to go through their estate docs. It gave them more of a to-do list than anything else but I was able to tell them to put mine in a trust which they were hesitant to do but I would prefer.

Hopefully none of this is needed any time soon but I dont know what questions to ask or think about. I know where the notebook is with the road map and the lawyers info. They've done the leg work and have living wills, wills, trusts, beneficiaries, etc. We talked about the stuff that's important to them and what isn't. I feel like we have a chat every year to stay on the same page and that's about as good as you can get. What am I missing?

Speaking as someone who is apparently going to have to go to court to get a new executor named based on a will that is 48 years old, I’m thinking your setup sounds pretty good…

Medical POAs in place?  Discussions about where the specific line is between pulling the plug and not?

[TheOtherMe]

My niece and I have had the discussion of when to pull the plug over and over.  She doesn't necessarily agree with what I want, but says she will do it.  

[raeoflyte]

Sept 23, 2024 9:33:45 GMT -5 lurkyloo said:

Sept 23, 2024 9:19:06 GMT -5 raeoflyte said:

My parents asked to go through their estate docs. It gave them more of a to-do list than anything else but I was able to tell them to put mine in a trust which they were hesitant to do but I would prefer.

Hopefully none of this is needed any time soon but I dont know what questions to ask or think about. I know where the notebook is with the road map and the lawyers info. They've done the leg work and have living wills, wills, trusts, beneficiaries, etc. We talked about the stuff that's important to them and what isn't. I feel like we have a chat every year to stay on the same page and that's about as good as you can get. What am I missing?

Speaking as someone who is apparently going to have to go to court to get a new executor named based on a will that is 48 years old, I’m thinking your setup sounds pretty good…

Medical POAs in place?  Discussions about where the specific line is between pulling the plug and not?

They have those and we talked discussed that they are heavily on the dnr side of things.

They said if we come over and they're on the floor, not quite dead we should leave and go to dinner, and then come back before calling an ambulance...

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

My dad said smother him with a pillow.  I said that is murder and I'd go to jail.

He still agonizes if he did the right thing with mom.  One of her biggest fears was being on a ventilator.  He constantly asks himself if he should have let her go at Mercy instead of going through what we did only for her to pass anyhow.  

But then he turns around and agonizes that he let her go to soon and maybe the doctors were wrong.

I told him Bob and I stood behind his decisions. If Bob or I had disagreed at any time we would have voiced our concerns to you and the doctors.  I said all three of us were in agreement. That is not my dad's burden to carry alone.

It is so freaking hard to make decisions.  At first DH was "do anything to save me!" but after seeing his mother now he is like hell no don't do that to me.  On the other hand they were talking about my mom going home right before it all went down.  If we had pulled things at Mercy . . .

Then how I feel at 40 with two young children will probably be quite different than how I feel at FIL's age of 89.  But what if I get dementia and forget to change it while I have the opportunity to do so?

IMHO after all this I think it's more important to have regular conversations about who is comfortable making the call and put that person in change.   I still resent that DH and I were left out that day with his mom but I understand.  DH would never have been able to make the call and may have fought SIL on it.

Meanwhile with my mom all three of us trusted the other to make the call if it came down to that but I did tell the doctors I wasn't giving the consent unless both my dad/brother were in the room unless I absolutely had no other option.  I said I owe it to them to at least hear me make the call.

[swamp]

My dad wouldn't make the decision on whether or not to treat my mother, I had to do it.  I'm still annoyed about it.    He ended up agreeing with me at the time to just give her palliative care at the nursing home and not transfer to the hospital for treatment, and my brother and sister also later agreed, but I still feel like it should not have been my decision. 

[wvugurl26]

I found out this year that my grandma on mom's side refused to sign the paperwork or make decisions for my grandpa. She didn't tell the ambulance people he had a DNR. When she got to the hospital, he was already intubated.

So when my aunt arrived, she was forced to make all the decisions. My mom and uncle also got there shortly after and agreed with my aunt but my grandma should have done it.

Knowing what they want and agreeing with it on an intellectual level doesn't make it easy for those left behind to carry it out. I know my grandma didn't want to be in the hospital and didn't want further treatment. Knowing that did nothing to make the next 10 days anything but the hardest thing I've ever done in my life.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Sept 23, 2024 12:30:23 GMT -5 swamp said:

My dad wouldn't make the decision on whether or not to treat my mother, I had to do it.  I'm still annoyed about it.    He ended up agreeing with me at the time to just give her palliative care at the nursing home and not transfer to the hospital for treatment, and my brother and sister also later agreed, but I still feel like it should not have been my decision. 

My dad told me he wasn't going to make her children make that call.  As her husband it was his duty.  Ripped my damn heart out when he said that. 

So he came back to the hospital and signed all the papers.  We didn't realize in the moment he had to formally sign paperwork stating to shut everything off.  

I will NEVER get the image of him sitting by my mother saying goodbye out of my head.

I did have to sign the paperwork to release her body because he disappeared in distress.  That was a mind f*ck.  I was the next of kin as the oldest child.  If I had refused to do it Bob could have done it since he was there but I wasn't making my baby brother sign to release our mom's body.

My dad has apologized for that IDK how many times.

My MIL had everything in place and they still didn't trust that DH wouldn't show up and disrupt it.  I agree knowing what they want and even having the paperwork are extremely different from having to make the decision in the moment.

[swamp]

Dad of 10 years ago would have made the call on his own.  Current dad can't. 

[TheOtherMe]

Sept 23, 2024 13:51:55 GMT -5 swamp said:

Dad of 10 years ago would have made the call on his own.  Current dad can't. 

My dad would have said to keep mom alive by any means possible.  

For her, she made her own decisions and signed her own paperwork with hospice.  They knew what she wanted and she was very coherent at the time.  She never saw a doctor again, which is what she wanted.

Dad was very upset with my sister and me for not "making" her have the surgery that she decided she did not want to have on her heart.  Guess that's why mom called sister and her granddaughter, the nurse, to talk to about the surgery and said not to bring dad.  

So she decided that she was not having surgery when the doctor only gave her 50-50 odds of surviving the surgery, let alone the rehab.  

Now that surgery is done robotically and she probably would have opted for the surgery