Battling Depression

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Aug 24, 2023 10:23:50 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

The not needing straight A's didn't hit me until adulthood either.  

It didn't help that my dad paid so much for A's, B's, and nothing for any lesser grade.

Now I feel like I wasted my high school and college years by trying to be a perfect student.  

I also don't know how much I learned and how much I was trying to get the A at any cost.

OMG right?!  I missed out on so much by trying to be practically perfect in every way.   

I learned a lot because I am very good at absorbing information but I missed out on a lot of soft skills that came back to haunt me in college and professionally.

[azucena]

In a lot of ways, this turns into me re-parenting myself. I didn't stress until about 8th grade and I don't think that year was an unhealthy level. HS when I knew I needed college scholarships was when stress kicked up higher. I managed to pull it off without parental involvement. My mom barely passed hs and my dad was uninvolved.

We don't pay or punish for grades, but she's well aware of each of her classmates' parents who do.

We've told DD15 our college tuition budget which will pay for a handful of instate schools including room and board without merit or financial aid. We've been able to ratchet up that savings the past few years and can cashflow the remainder based on our savings rate. She's likely to earn $5kish/yr based on test scores because she's gifted and tests well. This would be with very little test prep. I'll follow her lead on that part. We intend to do the same for DD11.

Likely need to involve other people who love DD11 to share the same message. Sometimes both of my girls are too much like me to hear it from me.

Meanwhile, major battles with DD15 over phone usage at all hours. She's saying she's responsible enough to know when it's important to be there for her friends at all hours. Sounds like two of them are having major mental health issues too - anxiety for one and eating disorder for another. I'm trying to walk the line of you're a great friend for offering support but it can't come at the cost of your own mental health and amidst your own panic attacks.

Gave both girls the magnesium last night. Need to check in with them on sleep after school today.

[TheOtherMe]

Aug 24, 2023 10:45:58 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Aug 24, 2023 10:23:50 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

The not needing straight A's didn't hit me until adulthood either.  

It didn't help that my dad paid so much for A's, B's, and nothing for any lesser grade.

Now I feel like I wasted my high school and college years by trying to be a perfect student.  

I also don't know how much I learned and how much I was trying to get the A at any cost.

OMG right?!  I missed out on so much by trying to be practically perfect in every way.   

I learned a lot because I am very good at absorbing information but I missed out on a lot of soft skills that came back to haunt me in college and professionally.

No parties, not much in the way of sports until I got to grad school.  I did go to football and basketball games in high school.

I definitely missed out on socialization skills.  

[azucena]

Aug 24, 2023 20:06:36 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

Aug 24, 2023 10:45:58 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

OMG right?!  I missed out on so much by trying to be practically perfect in every way.   

I learned a lot because I am very good at absorbing information but I missed out on a lot of soft skills that came back to haunt me in college and professionally.

No parties, not much in the way of sports until I got to grad school.  I did go to football and basketball games in high school.

I definitely missed out on socialization skills.  

Social skills are definitely one way that both of my girls have benefitted from DH's genetic material. They each float seamlessly between social circles in their peer groups.

[TheOtherMe]

My sister does and both of my parents did.  I am "me".  

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Both of my parents are awkward. I'm a combination of them.

DH could blend seamlessly. He's very charming when he wants to be. He could easily move between groups and was semi popular in school.

Gwen is more like him. Abby is more like me and my mother which sometimes I worry about.


But she seems to make friends easy so that's good.

[TheOtherMe]

My friendships are deep.  Not many friends but the friends I have are very close friends.

[Pink Cashmere]

Aug 24, 2023 10:50:40 GMT -5 azucena said:

In a lot of ways, this turns into me re-parenting myself. I didn't stress until about 8th grade and I don't think that year was an unhealthy level. HS when I knew I needed college scholarships was when stress kicked up higher. I managed to pull it off without parental involvement. My mom barely passed hs and my dad was uninvolved.

We don't pay or punish for grades, but she's well aware of each of her classmates' parents who do.

We've told DD15 our college tuition budget which will pay for a handful of instate schools including room and board without merit or financial aid. We've been able to ratchet up that savings the past few years and can cashflow the remainder based on our savings rate. She's likely to earn $5kish/yr based on test scores because she's gifted and tests well. This would be with very little test prep. I'll follow her lead on that part. We intend to do the same for DD11.

Likely need to involve other people who love DD11 to share the same message. Sometimes both of my girls are too much like me to hear it from me.

Meanwhile, major battles with DD15 over phone usage at all hours. She's saying she's responsible enough to know when it's important to be there for her friends at all hours. Sounds like two of them are having major mental health issues too - anxiety for one and eating disorder for another. I'm trying to walk the line of you're a great friend for offering support but it can't come at the cost of your own mental health and amidst your own panic attacks.

Gave both girls the magnesium last night. Need to check in with them on sleep after school today.

Behavioral health hospitals strongly discourage their patients from exchanging contact information so they can be friends after they are discharged. Don’t ask me how I know.

My uneducated guess is that they do that because 2 unhealthy people are likely to form an unhealthy relationship outside of the structure of the hospital, despite the patients’ best intentions, and genuine belief if that they are just friends and can help one another. It seems harsh, but I can kind of understand it. 

IME, being there for someone that is struggling with mental health issues can take a lot out of a person. I’ve probably mentioned here one of my favorite coworkers, who has some mental health issues. He finally managed to get himself fired some months ago. Over the years, I had to try to learn how to be a friend to him and support him, but still protect myself and my own well being from all his issues. He eventually ended up deleting my phone number, in an effort to protect me, so he couldn’t call me even if he wanted to, when he was being what he called “crazy”. He lost his phone (and wallet and keys to his apartment) at least once a month (seriously), so he kept changing his phone number whenever he lost his phone, and for the last couple of years, he didn’t give me his phone number so he wouldn’t have mine, and we just talked at work.

He was extra and extreme in a lot of ways, so I’m not comparing your daughters’ friends to him at all. But what I have noticed over the years and during all, of our talking, was that the people that stayed in constant contact with him over the years, without appropriate boundaries and put up with all his shenanigans, either had mental health issues themselves, or wanted to use him, or both. One of those people is another coworker, who played a part in the reason he ended up getting fired. Most people that had even halfway decent boundaries, set limits with him like I did (and he did with me on his own by deleting my phone number). I had too much other stuff in my life to worry about, than to let him have me up all night worrying about him because he called me while he was wilding out. So my first limit was learning to not answer his calls after 5pm, even if he called me back to back.

Having said all that, I can see how it can be a bad idea for people with mental health issues to lean on each other and how it can not really be helpful for either of them, even if they feel like it is. 

I’m just throwing that out there, hoping it doesn’t offend or upset you.

[azucena]

Pink - thanks for the food for thought. Add in that these are teenagers with way less life experience and it could be a disaster waiting to happen.

Just watched Dd15s final performance and now waiting in the lobby and hoping it doesn't take more than an hour for set breakdown. Is tired.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Reading your latest post has anyone discussed whether DD may be an empath?

I am one and I tend, especially when I was a teen, to attract people who wanted me as an emotional dumping ground in the guise of friendship.

If I am not careful I begin to feel it because I'm absorbing so much.

I am better at setting boundaries now but I still have to explain to DH sometimes it's not I don't care and it's not he can't have emotions but he needs to accept I need space and can't be his therapist.

I also can't watch the horror movie genre known as murder porn. Same with books like Girl with a Dragon tattoo.

Child and animal abuse stories will stay with me for years.

Maybe some her anxiety is being fed by her friends. Those feelings have to go somewhere and if she feels responsible for helping them she's probably absorbing ALOT.

There is a reason therapists need to learn to comparmentalize and go to school for their profession.



That's too much for a 15 year old. 15 year olds aren't good at setting boundaries. I speak from experience there my parents had to step in an ban me from one of my friends.

Like DD I insisted I could handle it and was being a good friend.

Now that I have more life experience holy fucking shit. I ran into him as an adult and later admitted to my parents they were right.

I certainly hope he got his life together and is still in the world. But for my noy only mental health but the physical safety of my family he has to stay gone from my life.

[TheOtherMe]

I have too much empathy, too.  That is the reason I switched primary care providers.  Her husband beats her.  He has been arrested more than once for it.  Every time I would see her, I could see where she had tried to cover bruises.

I think she also had anorexia nervosa, but her sunken eyes may have been from the abuse.

It hurt me to see her and that wasn't helping me.

[azucena]

Drama - good points. After reading a bit, I'd say too much empathy rather than true empath. Although it's interesting that I recently considered that about DD11, not DD15. This is where they both differ from me. I have a hard time feeling anyone's emotions, including my own.

Recently DD15 said some terrible things to me. I actually wanted to cry but couldn't. Can't decided if it was my meds or my lack of letting myself ever cry. Still thinking on it.

DD11s teacher texted me over the weekend. We're pretty good friends. She got the MAP testing results back already and DD11 tested in 98th percentile for both math and reading. Teacher said since DD is already working on advanced math this yr, she'd concentrate on challenging her in reading/writing which is her specialty anyway.

I shared with her that the therapist talked to me about how DD's giftedness plays into her anxiety. Like it's mostly possible for DD to get all of the questions correct in most cases bc she's gifted. It wouldn't be possible if she fell 'lower down the scale'. And she tends to finish assignments pretty quickly bc they just aren't hard enough. This gives her time to stew about if it's 100% correct.

[TheOtherMe]

Another one who finished tests quickly and had time to go back over my answers.  It was the ones I changed that I would get wrong.  I did finally learn to stop going over the tests.  

I'm old and when I was in school, there was no such thing as a gifted program.  When I heard about some of the courses my nephews got to take in high school, I was shocked.  Those would have challenged me.  

Kids need to be challenged and I was not truly challenged until graduate school.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Back in the alleged good ole days of education one of the things they measured you on was how fast you could take a test.  The three top best and three top worst would be hung on the wall.  It was reasoned that if you saw your bad test next to the good tests it would motivate you to try harder next time.

This was in third grade.

Guess who was constantly in the bottom three?

It really cost me in college because I could not shake the habit.   I was terrified of being seen as stupid and made an example of so I would rush to be first.  I wouldn't even check my answers I just wanted to be first to the teacher's desk.  It's been a battle to stop behaving that way in my work life as well.

Wrong kind of challenge.

Other than math I had it pretty easy in school and coasted.  I was in honors classes but even those weren't really a challenge.  I wish I had been pushed more not so I could get the accolades or anything but because it would have forced me to learn to pace myself and study properly.   Figuring out you don't have those skills to the tune of $625/credit hour is a bitch.  

I've been stressing that with Gwen.  I get her position on homework and some of the crap they have to do.  It is pointless.  BUT I said instead of looking at it that way look at it as an opportunity to develop soft skills while the stakes are extremely low.   Being able to slog through tedious tasks, study, time management are all things that you will need later in life.  Better to learn now than when it can get you fired. 

[azucena]

Drama - I've never heard of such a thing. So stupid.

DD11 is adjusting pretty well to the school year and loves her new teacher who happens to be our fav of the school. She and DD15 were particularly close and are still in touch with each other. 

The teacher is roughly my age and we've texted a couple of times per month for the last few years. I didn't realize that she was looking to me as a sounding board for some school related things and also some parenting things as she doesn't have kids. I'd say we both consider each other trusted friends.

A couple of weekends ago, teacher texted me that DD11 has some of the highest achievement test scores she's seen in her 20 yrs and unusual that scores were just as high in math as reading. She asked me to send her last yrs for comparison...also both high. Teacher said adv math taught by another teacher will challenge her and she'd take on reading. This week she introduced DD11 to a new book series that starts with 'Uglies'. DD can't put it down and won't stop talking about it. May have to read it after her.

Last night we had a hiccup bc they are talking about current events in the classroom so DD is now hearing things that are on the news which weren't part of her worldview yet. We don't watch the news in our house, haven't for years, in part to shelter the kids.  Things like the war btwn Russia and Ukraine with classmates exaggerating to what if this is the start of WWIII. So last night DD cried for over an hour about what if StL gets bombed. I said totally unlikely and that's a grownup problem. How would you handle?

There was also something about the president hiding his money in other countries. She says that one came from the teacher but wasn't able to give me context. Lord help me if the teacher meant Biden - I really don't want that confirmed. I'd prefer to keep my head in the sand on that but wouldn't surprise me given I know teacher is ultra-conservative.

Anyway, we were very upfront with teacher about DDs anxiety before the year started and asked us to communicate openly as things come up. Am I out of line to say be cautious about scary news subjects? My gut says 5th grade is too young for some of this. Our 7th grade teacher takes a worldview focus that I appreciated with older DD. A couple more years of maturity makes a world of difference.

[Peace77]

Sept 7, 2023 10:05:12 GMT -5 azucena said:

Last night we had a hiccup bc they are talking about current events in the classroom so DD is now hearing things that are on the news which weren't part of her worldview yet. We don't watch the news in our house, haven't for years, in part to shelter the kids.  Things like the war btwn Russia and Ukraine with classmates exaggerating to what if this is the start of WWIII. So last night DD cried for over an hour about what if StL gets bombed. I said totally unlikely and that's a grownup problem. How would you handle?


Anyway, we were very upfront with teacher about DDs anxiety before the year started and asked us to communicate openly as things come up. Am I out of line to say be cautious about scary news subjects? My gut says 5th grade is too young for some of this. Our 7th grade teacher takes a worldview focus that I appreciated with older DD. A couple more years of maturity makes a world of difference.

I would get a globe or atlas and show her how far away Russia and Ukraine are from your home.


Yes, it’s good to be cautious about scary subjects.  I heard that some children who saw the 9/11 attacks repeatedly shown on the news thought that meant that it had happened many times.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I think it's all right to be cautious but with Youtube, TikTok and all the other kids it's damn near impossible to keep your kids living in a bubble anymore.  I don't let DH blast CNN or Fox News at home but Gwen still finds out about stuff.

We talk about it.  She tells me what a bunch of 7th graders who think they know everything are saying then I do my best to present facts.  And I acknowledge her feelings.  Yes it is scary but here is how it is unlikely this will be the start of WWIII.

Interesting factoid Dundee district here in Omaha Nebraska actually DID get bombed in WWII.  It was kinda like that Chinese spy balloon and it ended up floating this far inland before it dropped.  It is the farthest inland bombing ever recorded during the war.  So it IS technically possibly St Louis could get bombed but don't make that mistake like I did.  DH told me good job Sheldon Cooper. 

The president is hiding money? Probably ever super rich white dude in the world is doing exactly that how do you think they stay so damn rich and don't pay taxes?      That's usually along the lines of how I respond to those things.  The people in power have always done these things but now they are either proudly crowing about it or using it as a weapon.  If we want actual change and accountability we need to vote differently.

[finnime]

I'm so sorry, azucena, that the war in the world has piqued your DD11's anxiety. I wish you could envelope her in certainty of safety the world over. She needs some tools to use to absorb news of ugliness and terror without being terrified herself. Perhaps a globe, as was suggested above, would help. And maybe a little bit of history. Are there any immigrants in your community? Where we lived in Maryland was one of the most diverse areas in the country. My kids knew other kids, including in their classes, who experienced some of the hardness of life. Safety for them lay in family and friends.

Hug your DD for me. I'm thinking of her.

[azucena]

Dd11 doesn't have access to YouTube or TikTok but I know the other kids do and that they hear it from their parents.

To add to the pile, they had a surprise intruder drill today. Drove 4 girls to vball and they were talking thru scenarios of what to do if they were not in the classroom where they practiced. Let them go a bit and then changed the subject.

Dd15 got audition results - she didn't get the part she wanted and is upset. I said feel your feels and then dive in with a good attitude. She shared more with DH later - she has 3 primary parts including one with an accent - she's somehow pretty amazing at several of them. One costume change is 3 mins. Hope she can see the reasons director gave her these parts.

She also has geom test tomorrow. I was worried about it bc she's been asking for hw help a lot. Just sat with her for an hour...the study guide is pretty watered down compared to the hw and teacher gives out a formula sheet. She feels better after our review as do I.

She still has to pack for theater conf Fri night and sat. It's go, go, go.

[daisylu]

I need to catch up with this thread, just been dealing with so much.

Thinking of you all.

[finnime]

I typically feel increasingly good as the summer ends and fall begins. Not this year. It's DH's health, I'm sure. I just don't want to be at the stage of our lives being medicalized with him on peritoneal dialysis, I suspect most nights but I don't know. It is a BFD. It requires surgery to install the ports--there are two, one for running the fluid in and one for taking it out. And they leave the tubes there.

He's gotten infections or other complications every time he's had a medical interventional procedure in past years. I am dreading this one.

I know it needs to be done. He's tired most of the time and losing weight which he really cannot afford.

Trying to smile through the days.

DD will be moving out October 1. Neighbor will be in Florida, turning her dog over to her own DD to care for while she goes on a cruise, then returns to Florida for the winter. So my DD can move in then. 

[anciana]

Sept 14, 2023 12:01:15 GMT -5 finnime said:

I typically feel increasingly good as the summer ends and fall begins. Not this year. It's DH's health, I'm sure. I just don't want to be at the stage of our lives being medicalized with him on peritoneal dialysis, I suspect most nights but I don't know. It is a BFD. It requires surgery to install the ports--there are two, one for running the fluid in and one for taking it out. And they leave the tubes there.

He's gotten infections or other complications every time he's had a medical interventional procedure in past years. I am dreading this one.

I know it needs to be done. He's tired most of the time and losing weight which he really cannot afford.

Trying to smile through the days.

DD will be moving out October 1. Neighbor will be in Florida, turning her dog over to her own DD to care for while she goes on a cruise, then returns to Florida for the winter. So my DD can move in then. 

I can totally understand your feelings looking at the prospects when it comes to your DH’s health. You know his condition and history, and it can be scary to try looking into future. Hopefully he has found good medical care team that will take good care of him health wise. You both have now some family close by to help out, to lean on support. Hang in there! 🤗

[finnime]

Thanks, anciana.

[azucena]

Sept 14, 2023 12:01:15 GMT -5 finnime said:

I typically feel increasingly good as the summer ends and fall begins. Not this year. It's DH's health, I'm sure. I just don't want to be at the stage of our lives being medicalized with him on peritoneal dialysis, I suspect most nights but I don't know. It is a BFD. It requires surgery to install the ports--there are two, one for running the fluid in and one for taking it out. And they leave the tubes there.

He's gotten infections or other complications every time he's had a medical interventional procedure in past years. I am dreading this one.

I know it needs to be done. He's tired most of the time and losing weight which he really cannot afford.

Trying to smile through the days.

DD will be moving out October 1. Neighbor will be in Florida, turning her dog over to her own DD to care for while she goes on a cruise, then returns to Florida for the winter. So my DD can move in then. 

Are there support groups for his condition or for caregivers? Talking to folks in the same position could be so helpful.

[finnime]

I don't know if there are support groups. I'm a very strong introvert so not really into group things, but if it would help, I would go. I guess I'll find out when we meet with the nurse navigator.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I found Better Help good for processing mom's death. I can use the app in the comfort of my home.

It had a journal feature I never used but that might help. It's a part of your account so 100% private so long as you aren't sharing user names and passwords.

Support groups are hit or miss with me. I get into a headspace where I start minimizing myself because I feel like I don't have the right to share compared to that person and I don't want to appear to be hogging attention when they clearly need it.

Yay being regularly shamed for being ADHD without being aware of it. I get very very cognizant of "talking too much".

45 minutes of someone devoted just to me talking was so much better.

[TheOtherMe]

Support groups have never been of much assistance to me and this goes back 40 years.

[azucena]

Our ostomy support group may function a little differently. They have a speaker every month followed by a time to ask questions. Pre-surgery, it gave DH a chance to hear all the ways ostomates are still living life - working, cruising, active family lives and marriages etc.

Now DH is on call for 1-1 visits with folks pre-surgery and he can share how he teaches preschool, swims, vacations etc. He can empathize with their fears about the disruptions ostomies can cause. He gets called to various hospitals a few times a yr.

Was thinking fin's dh could link up with some folks with the port and hear the ins and outs from folks living with it instead of doctor textbook/pamphlet stuff.

And fin could hear about good Dr's vs those to avoid and any tips to make things easier.

[finnime]

That does sound helpful, azucena. Thank you. I am not sure what available here; DH is going to call the nurse coordinator tomorrow and she should know.

[azucena]

My anxiety is bad this week with no clear cut reason or maybe all the same old reasons. I know it's bad because I'm spending my mornings gagging as I'm getting ready. Haven't done that in over a year.

DD11 is having a better school year but still dwells in negative happenings throughout her day. She's tired of therapy but I think it's working albeit slowly.

DD15 is stressed about grades which leads to procrastination which leads to more stress. Can't tell if getting her first hs B would cut the tension or cause her to implode. Last night we talked about her pulling me in sooner as she realizes she is getting behind. I help her walk away from her phone distractions to get hw done quicker and also just generally help her break things down into steps.

DH is going to therapy every other week but I overhear him talking about all work. And I'm not eavesdropping, he's loud. I tried to turn on a box fan for white noise in the room but he got mad. We're just co-existing.

Work continues to be a shit show. Our annual engagement survey results came back and there's a clear picture of life under my boss. The results were so bad that he wasn't allowed to share them until he had multiple talks with HR on how to present them. Even telling us that indicates how dumb he is. He handed them out this week and now we have a focus group with a moderator from a related dept without him involved on how to address deficiencies. With no fix in sight, I'm planning to lean out on it. I don't trust its anonymity, I've been vocal with grandboss about the problems and nothing ever gets done. Plus, one huge mark down in the survey was how our company handles ethical issues...yeah, not outting myself on reporting the sales guy's affair. Heard that he and gf just happened to show up at restaurant that was hosting company event last week.

Need to up my propranolol to cover the anxiety and continue to focus on self care. We're going out of town this weekend on church retreat so I'll have a chance to spend extra time outdoors.