Battling Depression

[finnime]

Pink Cashmere,    big hugs. I hope you find the light at the end of this tunnel very very very soon. I'm glad you've got the EAP counseling.

[azucena]

Pink - great therapist for getting you to recognize it yourself instead of telling you. You're more likely to believe yourself. Hope that makes sense. I'm sorry that you're dealing with depression on top of the chronic illness and pain. Those 3 things are often linked though. Putting on my mothering hat - take care of your body first and the house can come later.

I can check all 5 boxes in this article. Man, it's tough to force the physical activity and outdoor time when depression saps all energy. It's a clusterfuck that those are often the exact things we need to be doing to stubborn thru depression.
www.realsimple.com/health/mind-mood/what-happens-to-brain-without-exercise?utm_campaign=realsimple_realsimple&utm_content=manual&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_term=6441aee611b19a000143dd9e&fbclid=IwAR3jy8mJtAY7AQzeFLBESC6rjmYN1RNrLmV16R0f6mPR-yPS2P8nSJnwYKo

And as if I'm not battling on all side already, DD14 came into my room sobbing on Sun as I was packing for a work trip and admitted that she has body image issues. I was stunned and caught off guard and already trying to convince myself to power thru the trip. I told her thanks for bringing it up because that's a hard first step. She needs to concentrate on her show tonight and tomorrow and then we'll process this weekend. She will also bring it up in therapy next week.

FFS guys, this was not what my family needs right now at all. I'm not an exaggerating mother when I say she's cute as all get out. 140 lbs, size six, great skin, good teeth, no glasses and comes across as poised as can be. I often catch myself in awe of her esp in comparison to my own teen years but obviously never let on. She's not thin but no weight issue to speak of but can't help but compare herself to media and stick figure friends. UGH. I hate this so much for her.

Brought it up with DH and he can't process female thinking so not much help but at least I made him aware of what's going on. Told DD I did too because we don't keep secrets.

My start with her this weekend is the article linked above. Maybe the two of us together can work on those items and offset some of the negativity at least.  Will be even more conscious of having healthy foods available and less of the junk - we've slipped bad in this area, mostly by eating out too much while running from place to place and because it's easy than buying groceries and cooking.

[Annie7]

Apr 26, 2023 20:28:28 GMT -5 Pink Cashmere said:

The EAP lady I went to yesterday, after I told her all the stuff going on with me, she asked me how I’m doing with housekeeping. Y’all know I like a clean house, but my honest answer was that my house is a mess and has been for a while. It does bug me, but not enough that I can be bothered to do anything about it and actually clean it up. The state of my laundry is such that I have to scramble to find clean clothes to wear. There is a pile of 2 loads of laundry in the laundry basket in the laundry room (I normally never leave clothes in the basket.) a load of clothes that’s been sitting in the dryer for 2 weeks, and a pile of clothes on the floor in my bedroom that needs to be washed.

My bed has smelled like dog for at least a week, and normally I am all about smell good in my bedroom and my bed. So that’s crazy too.

Then she asked me about bathing and my honest reply was that I take a shower sometimes, but not even close to my normal habit of showering at least once/day. Then I tried to fix it by saying “I brush my teeth though”, which sounds pathetic in hindsight.

Then I was like “oh shit” those are signs of depression, aren’t they. And she said yep.

Lord help me, PLEASE.

Pink,

I'm so very sorry for what you are going through. To me, it's amazing that you are even going to work with the pain you are feeling.

I do some of the things you mentioned - lack of housekeeping and personal hygiene. But I have always thought it was because I'm lazy, not depressed. How do you differentiate between the two? 

[TheOtherMe]

azucena  I'm sorry your daughter has body image issues but  happy she told you.  That's a good beginning.  I hope she told you before she started doing any of the eating disorder behaviors.

[TheOtherMe]

The blood clot in my leg set me way back on my depression.  It's healed now, but my depression is worse than it was before that happened.

I know the physical and emotional parts of my body are linked but this was a painful lesson in just how much.

[finnime]

azucena, I'm thinking of you and all the pots you have simultaneously boiling right now on your stove. I remember so well the being overwhelmed with a demanding job, children vigorously growing and needing, and your own burdens to carry. Hang in there. You are managing with such thoughtfulness.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

The way I tell the difference is if I can't even get myself to care about it.  Sometimes I am lazy I don't want to clean or take a shower but eventually things get annoying enough or I get motivated enough to get off my ass and do it.

When I can't find a purpose or reason to do anything besides sit on the couch or lie under the covers that's when I realize I'm sliding into a depression episode.

For me depression has been a giant void of nothing.  There is no point in doing anything, being anything, just. . .apathy.  What is the point?

Anxiety is on the opposite end I get so hyper and overwhelmed I freeze like a panicked deer and can't make a single decision.  I have been struggling with that the past few days because work has been so overwhelming that DH simply asking me what to do with a box sent me into a spiral. 

[finnime]

Depression is when you can't do it and can't care all that much, either.

Lazy is when you can but don't want to do it.

Depression is when nothing feels pleasurable or hopeful.

Lazy is when everything else feels pleasurable and worth pursuing.

Depression is when you believe nothing you do will make any difference now or in the future.

Lazy is when you believe you can choose what to do to shape your happiness and nothing else is consequential.

Depression is when you feel slow and sad and ugly and that these things will not change.

Lazy is when you feel good enough but don't want to work that hard, preferring to play.

Depression is treatable.

[TheOtherMe]

Good explanation, Drama.  I know I have had two employers who thought I was lazy and did not understand depression.  

I know my mom thought I was lazy when it came to the house.  That's why I hire a cleaner.  It keeps that in check.  

My SO way back when used to ask me if I was hiding under the covers.  There were times when that was exactly what I was doing.

[azucena]

Apr 27, 2023 10:03:21 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

azucena   I'm sorry your daughter has body image issues but  happy she told you.  That's a good beginning.  I hope she told you before she started doing any of the eating disorder behaviors.

I will ask her about those behaviors directly this weekend. I haven't noticed anything. She eats like a typical teen and hasn't gained or lost weight in the last several months. I will also praise her for bringing up such a hard topic bc otherwise, I'd still be clueless.

When she brought it up, she mentioned wanting to eat healthier and I agreed that it's something our whole family could work on together. She packs her lunch bc the cafeteria is too chaotic. Typically she takes a ready made protein pack and adds a snack like chips. I recently splurged on the ready made salad bowls from Aldi and she commented on how good they were, so I've been buying 2 per week. They feel pricey at $3.99 but school lunch would be $3.50. I cautioned her to eat them soon after purchase so they didn't spoil. Chicken Caesar and Chef so they have chicken and ham for protein.

[TheOtherMe]

If she is eating, she is probably not anorexic.  Is she purging?  That's the behavior of someone with bulimia.  

Eating rituals include having to eat things in a certain way every single meal.  My cousin who has an extreme case of anorexia, does exercises after every meal because tummies must be flat.  

Needless to say her 7 year old daughter is in therapy because she mimics mom's behavior.

[daisylu]

Apr 27, 2023 11:11:52 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

If she is eating, she is probably not anorexic.  Is she purging?  That's the behavior of someone with bulimia.  

Eating rituals include having to eat things in a certain way every single meal.  My cousin who has an extreme case of anorexia, does exercises after every meal because tummies must be flat.  

Needless to say her 7 year old daughter is in therapy because she mimics mom's behavior.

That is very sad. 

[Opti]

Apr 27, 2023 11:11:52 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

If she is eating, she is probably not anorexic.  Is she purging?  That's the behavior of someone with bulimia.  

Eating rituals include having to eat things in a certain way every single meal.  My cousin who has an extreme case of anorexia, does exercises after every meal because tummies must be flat.  

Needless to say her 7 year old daughter is in therapy because she mimics mom's behavior.

[Opti]

Apr 4, 2023 18:55:38 GMT -5 finnime said:

Yes to all of the "must appear friendly" discussion. It's really obnoxious. I'm a strong introvert from New England and of Finnish cultural heritage. We barely make eye contact with people we know in my family! I hate, hate, hate to hear it be demanded of me to smile. I don't have a snarl on my face; that should be enough. Especially when I've got much going on, or am fighting depression or just tired or whatever. If we were men we would not hear that command, I'm certain.

And if you are almost dying emotionally and barely holding on, some managers will wonder why you aren't supporting their emotional needs better. 


I do not remember the latter in my job description. Especially at a healthcare facility where your bosses are paid better than you, have offices they can hide in, and you are out with the public every minute except your lunch break ... WTE  isn't this why you have the better paycheck and all that?

Last boss did not even last 15 minutes before turning red faced the one time he actually did come down to cover because I was past my endurance. 

[wvugurl26]

I prefer to make my own chicken for salads but Tyson has ready grilled chicken strips that are great for salads, wraps, etc. They come frozen and just need to be microwaved for a few minutes. I get the large bag at Sam's Club. I assume Costco might have something similar. It is hard to grocery shop and meal plan and prep when you are very busy and/or gone.

It's been a struggle for me to find my rhythm this year and I'm not struggling with all the other issues.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Apr 27, 2023 10:19:28 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

Good explanation, Drama.  I know I have had two employers who thought I was lazy and did not understand depression.  

I know my mom thought I was lazy when it came to the house.  That's why I hire a cleaner.  It keeps that in check.  

My SO way back when used to ask me if I was hiding under the covers.  There were times when that was exactly what I was doing.

I've been having to explain decision paralysis to DH multiple times.  It's an anxiety/ADHD thing.  I'm not being petty I genuinely cannot make a decision right now.  I have been working on coping techniques but like the therapist said we're human we're going to have off days/weeks and that is okay as long as I can pull myself together for the long haul.

I'm not being a bitch when I do it or lazy.  I truly am having sensory processing issues.

He's getting better at understanding how overwhelmed I get when one kid wants X, the other wants Y, the TV is blaring and he asks a question from the other room that I can't hear or focus on. 

I said literally cannot process what you said right now too much stimulation.  You want me come into the damn living room so I can see your lips moving, turn down the TV and tell the kids to shut up.

[azucena]

In great news, DD14 gave a mesmerizing performance last night. Many a damp eye in the audience including DH. Based on applause, she and her acting partner stole the one act show set out of the four performances. I'm certain that she did well enough to move herself well up the casting list for next year's regular shows.

In anxiety news, she's freaking out about summer musical auditions on Sat. Auditions she's known about for two months that she's procrastinated prepping for even though it was clear how closely they were going to follow after the one acts. She just started rehearsing the dance portion on Weds at 7 pm; choreo was posted two weeks ago. Realized this morning that I haven't heard practicing a song. One act closes tonight, cast party at our house until 1 or 2 am and auditions at 11 am. Might be a painful lesson.

Got a nastygram about how much school she's missed. Does 5 days seem like a lot with one month left in the school year? Likely state funding based, right? 1.5 were appt based - dentist, derm, and ped. The other 3.5 were mental health days. The note was all about how absences impede learning and grades. Um, hows about you cross reference your list with honor roll student, mkay?!

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I throw those letters in the trash.   Our kids can only miss three days TOTAL that includes excused absences and then you start getting the nastygrams.  I'm sorry but that is totally unrealistic especially with younger ages that catch every plauge on the planet.  Then add on that doctor and dental offices are only open during school hours. 

Whatever.  I am pissed though because DH let them take advatange of him enough this year that now we are at requiring a doctor note for every absence.  I told him I am taking over school attendence from here on out.  We are doing it the 80s way.  You aren't barfing, pooping or have a 101 fever your ass goes to school.   I know them well enough to know when they are faking vs actually sick, especially Gwen.  I said you cried wolf one too many times this year kiddo.  Now we're playing by MY rules.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Since we were on the topic previously, I also know exhaustion can trigger a depressive episode.  It takes more mental energy than I care to admit to keep all the barriers in place so I can at least pretend to be a normal functioning human being during work hours.   When I get tired enough things start breaking down.  I'm getting down in the dumps about our finances because we are hemmoraging money this month. It's not the end of the world, we will recover and by next year we'll start seeing an uptick as our car payments end and some debt falls off.

But I'm mad at myself because I thought I'd be farther ahead now as I turn 40.   Series of life choices have altered that.  I don't regret any of them exactly it's just depressing sometimes to think about how far I could be if I had made different choices and how much being a middle age adult SUCKS.

No clue NO CLUE whatsoever in my 20s that this is how adult hood turns out.  Man I miss being that naive. 

[geenamercile]

Apr 28, 2023 9:23:29 GMT -5 azucena said:

In great news, DD14 gave a mesmerizing performance last night. Many a damp eye in the audience including DH. Based on applause, she and her acting partner stole the one act show set out of the four performances. I'm certain that she did well enough to move herself well up the casting list for next year's regular shows.

In anxiety news, she's freaking out about summer musical auditions on Sat. Auditions she's known about for two months that she's procrastinated prepping for even though it was clear how closely they were going to follow after the one acts. She just started rehearsing the dance portion on Weds at 7 pm; choreo was posted two weeks ago. Realized this morning that I haven't heard practicing a song. One act closes tonight, cast party at our house until 1 or 2 am and auditions at 11 am. Might be a painful lesson.

Got a nastygram about how much school she's missed. Does 5 days seem like a lot with one month left in the school year? Likely state funding based, right? 1.5 were appt based - dentist, derm, and ped. The other 3.5 were mental health days. The note was all about how absences impede learning and grades. Um, hows about you cross reference your list with honor roll student, mkay?!

Most of those letters are generated when X amount of days are missed.  And yes they come from state laws and regulations on how many days a kid can missed at least with my state.  A lot of states suspended those requirements during COVID, but now having them come back into effect.  For high school in VA not having enough seat time in a class can literally mean that class won't count for graduation no matter the grade. 

[Opti]

Apr 28, 2023 9:50:32 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Since we were on the topic previously, I also know exhaustion can trigger a depressive episode.  It takes more mental energy than I care to admit to keep all the barriers in place so I can at least pretend to be a normal functioning human being during work hours.   When I get tired enough things start breaking down.  I'm getting down in the dumps about our finances because we are hemmoraging money this month. It's not the end of the world, we will recover and by next year we'll start seeing an uptick as our car payments end and some debt falls off.

But I'm mad at myself because I thought I'd be farther ahead now as I turn 40.   Series of life choices have altered that.  I don't regret any of them exactly it's just depressing sometimes to think about how far I could be if I had made different choices and how much being a middle age adult SUCKS.

No clue NO CLUE whatsoever in my 20s that this is how adult hood turns out.  Man I miss being that naive. 

Just turned 63 and not grieving all the numerous losses in the last 15 years. And the sister most like me but younger has more to grieve than I do in the last 4+ years. She lost two BFFs, both in their 40s, from stuff you wouldn't expect.

This is not the life I thought I signed up for, but I wonder if it is the life my soul signed up for.

[TheOtherMe]

Apr 28, 2023 9:23:29 GMT -5 azucena said:

In great news, DD14 gave a mesmerizing performance last night. Many a damp eye in the audience including DH. Based on applause, she and her acting partner stole the one act show set out of the four performances. I'm certain that she did well enough to move herself well up the casting list for next year's regular shows.

 for J!  

[TheOtherMe]

Apr 28, 2023 9:47:17 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Whatever.  I am pissed though because DH let them take advatange of him enough this year that now we are at requiring a doctor note for every absence.  I told him I am taking over school attendence from here on out.  We are doing it the 80s way.  You aren't barfing, pooping or have a 101 fever your ass goes to school.   I know them well enough to know when they are faking vs actually sick, especially Gwen.  I said you cried wolf one too many times this year kiddo.  Now we're playing by MY rules.

Those were my mom's rules, along with staying in your bedroom.  No television.  

If you had a fever, you went to the doctor and got a lecture on how much it cost.

Her rules were the reason I exposed my 2nd grade class to the measles and almost everyone got them.  

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

My dad read more of them this time a lot were about Bob.  He was not good to our mom for a while there.  Her poetry is pretty scalding.  Dad said if he had known all that was going on and how she felt he would have rung Bob's neck.  He said he was working on letting it go because they were starting to reconcile right before she went in the hospital but he had no clue how bad it was.

He thinks Bob should read them.  I disagreed to an extent.  I said that maybe offer to let Bob know they exist and warn him about it and let HIM decide if he wants to read and process it.  Don't use them as a weapon of misplaced anger and justice.   Bob needs to take ownership and accountability for his actions/behavior on his own you can't make him do it.

So hopefully he takes my advice on that.  Now I am REALLY glad I chose to burn that list my mom made of "everything that is wrong with her" and I am taking it with me to my own grave.

I get writing my poetry was my mom's way of processing.  I also am well aware now of how deep her depression truly ran.  I just wish she had put it behind a password or used a web site that we couldn't access for it.  My dad is far from computer savvy he wouldn't have been able to get into it.   Having these things easily available without my mother around to provide any kind of context is not helpful.

I wish she had told me to delete them.  I was over there all the time letting Phoebe out I could have destroyed the folder with no one the wiser.   Instead there they are haunting us from beyond.

[busymom]

Apr 28, 2023 14:47:42 GMT -5 TheOtherMe said:

Apr 28, 2023 9:47:17 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

Whatever.  I am pissed though because DH let them take advatange of him enough this year that now we are at requiring a doctor note for every absence.  I told him I am taking over school attendence from here on out.  We are doing it the 80s way.  You aren't barfing, pooping or have a 101 fever your ass goes to school.   I know them well enough to know when they are faking vs actually sick, especially Gwen.  I said you cried wolf one too many times this year kiddo.  Now we're playing by MY rules.

Those were my mom's rules, along with staying in your bedroom.  No television.  

If you had a fever, you went to the doctor and got a lecture on how much it cost.

Her rules were the reason I exposed my 2nd grade class to the measles and almost everyone got them.  

     When I was sick at home, missing school, rule #1 was no television.  (So much for me reminiscing about watching "The Price is Right".)    I had to stay in my room, in bed.  Because Mom was very afraid of strep throat turning into scarlet fever, anytime she could tell my throat was part of the problem, she made a doctor's appointment for me.  

[Pink Cashmere]

May 1, 2023 12:22:20 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

My dad read more of them this time a lot were about Bob.  He was not good to our mom for a while there.  Her poetry is pretty scalding.  Dad said if he had known all that was going on and how she felt he would have rung Bob's neck.  He said he was working on letting it go because they were starting to reconcile right before she went in the hospital but he had no clue how bad it was.

He thinks Bob should read them.  I disagreed to an extent.  I said that maybe offer to let Bob know they exist and warn him about it and let HIM decide if he wants to read and process it.  Don't use them as a weapon of misplaced anger and justice.   Bob needs to take ownership and accountability for his actions/behavior on his own you can't make him do it.

So hopefully he takes my advice on that.  Now I am REALLY glad I chose to burn that list my mom made of "everything that is wrong with her" and I am taking it with me to my own grave.

I get writing my poetry was my mom's way of processing.  I also am well aware now of how deep her depression truly ran.  I just wish she had put it behind a password or used a web site that we couldn't access for it.  My dad is far from computer savvy he wouldn't have been able to get into it.   Having these things easily available without my mother around to provide any kind of context is not helpful.

I wish she had told me to delete them.  I was over there all the time letting Phoebe out I could have destroyed the folder with no one the wiser.   Instead there they are haunting us from beyond.

I don’t think your brother should read it. I can’t see it doing anything positive for him, and he can’t even try to make amends since she’s gone.

DD and I had a troubled relationship for several years. I wouldn’t want her to read anything I wrote negative about that time in our lives after I die. I would rather she focus on the good times and good memories. She already knows she use to act a complete ass with me sometimes, but I wouldn’t want her to revisit all of that after I’m gone, by reading my thoughts back then, and end up possibly carrying guilt and shame for the rest of her life because it’s too late for her to say or do anything about it.

That’s just my opinion, coming from a Mom with an adult daughter who I went through a lot of bad times with.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I don't really think he should either but if it was going to happen that should be his decision.   There is no point in creating conflict where there doesn't need to be any.

I get why my dad feels the way he does I felt the same way stumbling across some of the poems she wrote about him and Bob too.  I chose to put them in the closet and never speak of them again.   I told DH that sometimes it weighs on me knowing they exist but nothing good would come from me sharing it.  So I live with it. 

I've been my mom's "therapist" since I was a little kid.  It is not shocking to me that I continue to fill that role.

[Tennesseer]

Came across this article today.

US Surgeon General calls for action regarding the ongoing 'epidemic of loneliness and isolation'

The U.S. Surgeon General released an advisory on Tuesday calling attention to the public health crisis of loneliness, isolation, and lack of connection in the United States.

The report cites recent research showing that approximately half of U.S. adults experienced loneliness daily, even before the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic.

It highlights that a lack of social connection can present significant health risks, as loneliness can increase risk of premature death by 26% and social isolation by 29%, according to a meta-analysis cited in the advisory.

According to the report, insufficient social connection has also been linked to an increased risk of heart disease, stroke, anxiety, depression and dementia.

Additionally, loneliness was reported among the primary motivations for self-harm, according to a systematic review cited in the advisory.

US Surgeon General calls for action regarding the ongoing 'epidemic of loneliness and isolation'

Link to the systematic review mentioned in the above last paragraph: Self-harm in older adults: systematic review

[Opti]

May 1, 2023 13:59:47 GMT -5 NomoreDramaQ1015 said:

I don't really think he should either but if it was going to happen that should be his decision.   There is no point in creating conflict where there doesn't need to be any.

I get why my dad feels the way he does I felt the same way stumbling across some of the poems she wrote about him and Bob too.  I chose to put them in the closet and never speak of them again.   I told DH that sometimes it weighs on me knowing they exist but nothing good would come from me sharing it.  So I live with it. 

I've been my mom's "therapist" since I was a little kid.  It is not shocking to me that I continue to fill that role.

Also I think timing makes a difference as well. Nothing of the past can be changed. And knowing certain things while in the early years of grieving just makes it harder to process. 

So maybe in five or better yet ten plus years after she died, maybe then he could be in the space to read them if he wanted to, and to be a better person if he wasn't already. Its about five years since my mom and my BFF died. I still have much to process .

[finnime]

Just published in The New York Times behind a paywall is an article discussing the correlation between symptoms of depression and anxiety and consumption of ultra processed foods.

"The Link Between Highly Processed Foods and Brain Health

Eating packaged foods like cereal and frozen meals has been associated with anxiety, depression and cognitive decline. Scientists are still piecing together why."

Ultra processed foods have also been found to have a correlation with cognitive decline. These foods include a variety of ingredients that are not found in a typical home pantry. They have unpronounceable chemical names.

Food for thought.