Shirina
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Post by Shirina on Apr 7, 2011 13:00:16 GMT -5
Nice deflection, but, I'm not talking about Obama, I'm talking about Trump. I'm not going to be diverted from the topic of Trump and enmesh myself in an Obama defense team. So, if you have something to say about Trump, I'd be happy to hear it. Otherwise, you're trying to start a tangent that I refuse to acknowledge.
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pepper112765
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Post by pepper112765 on Apr 7, 2011 13:01:24 GMT -5
Natural born citizenship, which is defined by Black's Law Dictionary is "a person born within the jurisdiction of a national government" If you're trying to say "boundary" (or something that can be defined on a map), I suggest using a word other than "jurisdiction". You are more than welcome to send a letter to the publisher of Black's Law Dictionary. The bottom line is citizenship is rooted in common law, which for the most part is based on English Common law. Hawaii, not you or anyone else, had the final say that Obama is a citizen. And, Hawaii was a state before President Obama was born, so there is no territorial argument, like say about whether McCain was considered a citizen upon his birth. Finally, so you can understand, if Hawaii considered President Obama a natural born citizen of that state upon his birth, ergo he then is automatically a natural born citizen of the United States.
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Apr 7, 2011 13:06:15 GMT -5
If you use "boundary", then John McCain wasn't qualified to be president, since he was born in the Panama Canal Zone. "Jurisdiction" would qualify him. It's odd that you refer to John McCain as having qualified under your refeerence to "jurisdiction". Because Obama's daddy, being a Brithis citizen, it was that same "jurisdiction" that did not apply to Obama.
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pepper112765
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Post by pepper112765 on Apr 7, 2011 13:11:08 GMT -5
If you use "boundary", then John McCain wasn't qualified to be president, since he was born in the Panama Canal Zone. "Jurisdiction" would qualify him. It's odd that you refer to John McCain as having qualified under your refeerence to "jurisdiction". Because Obama's daddy, being a Brithis citizen, it was that same "jurisdiction" that did not apply to Obama. There was legislation enacted so that he would be considered a citizen, since both of his parents were ... he wasn't born on American soil, Obama was. There is also a Supreme Court case, U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 US 649 (1898), child born in U.S. territory of parents that were not eligible for citizenship was deemed a citizen. Again the standard is jus soli. A citizen by right of the soil on which you are born. Okay?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2011 13:13:56 GMT -5
"A "certificate of live birth" is not a birth certificate, and all your wishes and candy-coated dreams will never make it one... " The state of Hawaii has said REPEATEDLY that yeah... that is their birth certificate... when you ask for one, that's what you get... and his is valid... ![](http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff155/JiminiChristmas/smileys/8.gif)
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Apr 7, 2011 13:24:58 GMT -5
If you use "boundary", then John McCain wasn't qualified to be president, since he was born in the Panama Canal Zone. "Jurisdiction" would qualify him. It's odd that you refer to John McCain as having qualified under your refeerence to "jurisdiction". Because Obama's daddy, being a Brithis citizen, it was that same "jurisdiction" that did not apply to Obama. Huh? I referred to John McCain because Obama ran against him, and I think it's positively insane that the birthers are getting their panties in a twist over Obama's place of birth, after having shown a Hawaiian Certificate of Birth, but they don't say anything about McCain, when there actually can be a debate over whether he's a "natural born citizen" since he was born in the Canal Zone. Personally, I think both Obama and McCain were eligible to run, citizenship-wise.
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pepper112765
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Post by pepper112765 on Apr 7, 2011 13:29:41 GMT -5
If you use "boundary", then John McCain wasn't qualified to be president, since he was born in the Panama Canal Zone. "Jurisdiction" would qualify him. It's odd that you refer to John McCain as having qualified under your refeerence to "jurisdiction". Because Obama's daddy, being a Brithis citizen, it was that same "jurisdiction" that did not apply to Obama. Huh? I referred to John McCain because Obama ran against him, and I think it's positively insane that the birthers are getting their panties in a twist over Obama's place of birth, after having shown a Hawaiian Certificate of Birth, but they don't say anything about McCain, when there actually can be a debate over whether he's a "natural born citizen" since he was born in the Canal Zone. Personally, I think both Obama and McCain were eligible to run, citizenship-wise. I think that was directed to me. Anyway, this is like beating a dead, stinky horse. Even when presented with facts people believe what they want to believe. He has a right to do that, after all as an American Natural Born Citizen. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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Post by ed1066 on Apr 7, 2011 13:29:54 GMT -5
Why would anyone say anything about McCain, he was not elected president??
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Apr 7, 2011 13:31:40 GMT -5
Why would anyone say anything about McCain, he was not elected president?? Now, Ed, stop it. You're not this dense. The birther arguments came out during the campaign. There was no similar hoopla over McCain, even though there could have been.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Apr 7, 2011 13:32:15 GMT -5
Huh? I referred to John McCain because Obama ran against him, and I think it's positively insane that the birthers are getting their panties in a twist over Obama's place of birth, after having shown a Hawaiian Certificate of Birth, but they don't say anything about McCain, when there actually can be a debate over whether he's a "natural born citizen" since he was born in the Canal Zone. Personally, I think both Obama and McCain were eligible to run, citizenship-wise. I think that was directed to me. Anyway, this is like beating a dead, stinky horse. Even when presented with facts people believe what they want to believe. He has a right to do that, after all as an American Natural Born Citizen. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) I'm adding to your karma for that. ![](http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff155/JiminiChristmas/smileys/button29934414.png)
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pepper112765
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Post by pepper112765 on Apr 7, 2011 13:32:21 GMT -5
Why thank you!!!
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pepper112765
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Post by pepper112765 on Apr 7, 2011 13:34:50 GMT -5
But, we need to see his Birth Certificate First!!!! ;D Okay, now I'm done!
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Apr 7, 2011 13:51:00 GMT -5
The birther arguments came out during the campaign. There was no similar hoopla over McCain, even though there could have been. How convenient it is to have selective memory loss. There WAS hoopla. There was a LOT of hoopla. It all came from the left.What put the McCain hoopla to rest was that he was man enough to open the records for inspection. We are still waiting for Obama to do the same. He has proven not to be man enough to be open his records for examination. I personally think his reason is that he already knows he won't pass the examination.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Apr 7, 2011 13:52:31 GMT -5
There was no similar hoopla over McCain, even though there could have been. I guess (potential) left wing "birthers" actually realized that they'd sound as loony as right wing "birthers" do now?
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Post by magichat on Apr 7, 2011 13:56:24 GMT -5
Shirina you do realize the President works for us right? The voters? So last time you hired somebody did you ask for a few documents? You do realize that the majority of the hiring committee was satisfied with the documentation provided by the person they hired. Absolutely, I guess that's why you missed my point that i don't care where or how he was born or his eligibility.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Apr 7, 2011 13:56:49 GMT -5
The birther arguments came out during the campaign. There was no similar hoopla over McCain, even though there could have been. How convenient it is to have selective memory loss. There WAS hoopla. There was a LOT of hoopla. It all came from the left.What put the McCain hoopla to rest was that he was man enough to open the records for inspection. We are still waiting for Obama to do the same. He has proven not to be man enough to be open his records for examination. I personally think his reason is that he already knows he won't pass the examination. I'm pretty sure Obama manned up showed a "Certificate of Live Birth" which is what Hawaii issues as birth certificates. I also remember seeing a copy of a newspaper birth announcement. The problem is that the tin foil hat loonies are saying it's a fake. And nobody is debating where McCain was born, the debate is whether his birth in the Panama Canal Zone fits the definition of Natural Born Citizen. Nothing manly about showing his records was involved.
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floridayankee
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Post by floridayankee on Apr 7, 2011 13:57:10 GMT -5
How convenient it is to have selective memory loss. There WAS hoopla. There was a LOT of hoopla. It all came from the left. Honestly, Henry, I don't remember a lot of hoopla over it. I remember a few liberals bringing it up on the old boards as troll bait for right wing"birthers", but I don't remember them droning on about it. We're going on, what, 3 years of beating this horse?
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Apr 7, 2011 13:57:35 GMT -5
There was no similar hoopla over McCain, even though there could have been. I guess (potential) left wing "birthers" actually realized that they'd sound as loony as right wing "birthers" do now? Ding, ding, ding, we have a winnah!! I'd karmalize you, but I can't right now, and I'm sure I'll forget later.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Apr 7, 2011 15:01:09 GMT -5
"A "certificate of live birth" is not a birth certificate, and all your wishes and candy-coated dreams will never make it one... " The state of Hawaii has said REPEATEDLY that yeah... that is their birth certificate... when you ask for one, that's what you get... and his is valid... ![](http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff155/JiminiChristmas/smileys/8.gif) Hawaii like Conecticut, where I was born, have a version of this certificate of live birth. There is no "long form" to produce. I had never heard of a long form birth certificate until this nonsense came out and I am 46 years old. ;D But I will say that when I want something like a passport, or in his case to run for president. I had to produce a certified copy with a raised seal on it. Which is the one online that the birthers don't want because they say they want to see the original long form birth certificate which at this point wants to make me scream, THERE IS ON FUCKING ORIGINAL!!!!!!!! There, now I feel better. ![](http://bestsmileys.com/clueless/4.gif)
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Apr 7, 2011 15:28:52 GMT -5
Trump: I have ‘real doubts’ Obama was born in U.S. The potential candidate says he wants to see proof Says long form, unsigned, certificate of live birth certificate with no serial number is "not even close", says Obama has "spent two million dollars in legal fees trying to get away from this issue" and "I have people that are now studying it, and they cannot believe what they're finding". today.msnbc.msn.com/id/42469703/ns/today-today_people/
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 7, 2011 15:34:22 GMT -5
So Obama's birth certificate is being examined by "top men?"
Trump is brillliant, even if this is all crap he's got himself a huge tinfoil hat wearing voter base out of the deal.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Apr 7, 2011 15:46:45 GMT -5
Tough noogies it isn't his decision to make it is the state of Hawaii's and this is what they choose. It is their state's legislator's decision and every state has that right also. There is a serial number etc on the certified copy of the birth certificate, in case a return to sanity is an option. ![](http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff155/JiminiChristmas/smileys/1-1.gif)
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Angel!
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Post by Angel! on Apr 7, 2011 15:48:13 GMT -5
Tough noogies it isn't his decidion to make it is the state of Hawaii's and this is what they choose. It is their state's legislators decision and every state has that right also. There is a cerial number etc on the certified copy of the birht certificate in case a return to sanity is an option. ![](http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff155/JiminiChristmas/smileys/1-1.gif) There is also a signature on the birth certificate Obama provided. Not sure where Trump is getting his info. Obama provided a birth certificate that would be legal in any court in this country for proof of citizenship, what more do people want? Ridiculous.
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Apr 7, 2011 16:06:40 GMT -5
Tough noogies it isn't his decidion to make it is the state of Hawaii's and this is what they choose. It is their state's legislators decision and every state has that right also. There is a serial number etc on the certified copy of the bight certificate in case a return to sanity is an option. ![](http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff155/JiminiChristmas/smileys/1-1.gif) There is also a signature on the birth certificate Obama provided. Not sure where Trump is getting his info. Obama provided a birth certificate that would be legal in any court in this country for proof of citizenship, what more do people want? Ridiculous. That is the certified copy. I have one too that looks just like it. I swear when I needed it I had to write on my request that "I needed a copy that I could get a passport with". If I didn't they would just send a "Notice of Registration of Birth". ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 7, 2011 20:49:34 GMT -5
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burnsattornincan
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Post by burnsattornincan on Apr 7, 2011 21:18:16 GMT -5
www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.htmlMr. billisonboard, I trust you are a little sharper than that. This was posted way back on page 2 and I've stated the image appears to be photoshopped. Take a close look at the fourth image (the apparent original) and let me know what you think about the black printed letters. They are clearly superimposed. Note that no person is holding the paper up to cameras either. Also, Mr. henryclay posted a link that did a very detailed analysis on the backdrop for the certificate. There is a lot of information there but the important message is that it appears the pattern does not match with other certificates from the same time frame. It seems to me there are more questions than answers on the subject.
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henryclay
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Post by henryclay on Apr 7, 2011 21:24:14 GMT -5
bills doesn't want to talk about Obama's qualifications. He wants to talk about FactCheck.org. Okay, let's talk about factCheck.org. I was looking for a photo to add to the left column, when I re-discovered these photos of the two people who "certified" Obama's eligibility to serve as POTUS.
They are employees of FactCheck.org, an organization that bills itself as "non-partisan," but is part of the Annenberg network of liberal-left causes and organizations -- just like Bill Ayers' Chicago Annenberg Challenge -- Annenberg, and its causes, are way left of center.
As the world now knows, FactCheck.org published a web page entitled, "Born in the U.S.A. -- The truth about Obama's birth certificate." The entire webpage is ONE BIG LIE!
The counterfeit document FactCheck.org is proffering on this page, and refers to as a birth certificate -- 31 times -- is not a birth certificate. It's not even a document. At least three qualified examiners have said it's bogus. But that didn't stop FactCheck.org from employing Goebbel's "Big Lie" technique: "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State." And it worked!
This absurd webpage, and the bogus document it contains, has been referenced by judges, members of Congress and the ObamaMedia as prima facie evidence that Barack Obama is eligible to serve as Commander in Chief, even though the Obama Campaign has publicly admitted that Obama was -- "at birth" -- a citizen of Kenya, a British subject and is a "native [born US] citizen" -- it's on their website -- anchor babies are "native born citizens."
"Native born" citizenship status is different than "natural born" citizenship. "Native born" American citizens are simply not eligible to serve as Commander in Chief.
FactCheck.org identifies their anal-ists as Jess Henig and Joe Miller. OK, that's fine, but who and what are Jess Henig and Joe Miller? Are they qualified to perform an analysis of ANY document, or are they just a couple of guys hanging around FactCheck.org's office, or are they political operators? What are their bona fides? FactCheck.org doesn't say. Wonder why?
![](http://www.theobamafile.com/_images/img100.jpg) Would you buy a used car from these two? Well, I found out. The two FactCheck.org employees who were granted access to Obama's bogus Certification of Live Birth (COLB) are NOT document examiners or experts. They never even checked ID's at a college bar.
Joe Miller earned his B.A. in philosophy from Hampden-Sydney College, his M.A. in philosophy from Virginia Tech and his Ph.D. in political philosophy from the University of Virginia. He joined the Annenberg Public Policy Center in April 2007 after working as a writer with the Mack/Crounse Group. Previously he was an assistant professor of philosophy at the United States Military Academy and at the University of North Carolina at Pembroke, and a visiting fellow at the Callaghan Centre for Conflict Studies at the University of Wales at Swansea.
Jessica Henig earned her B.A. in history of science from Smith College and her M.A. in English from the University of Maryland. While at Maryland, she taught digital literature and rhetorical writing. Prior to joining the Annenberg Public Policy Center in May 2007, she worked for the National Academies Press. She has also worked for the National Institutes of Health and as a freelance researcher and editor. She left FactCheck.org in January, 2011 to become a news writer for Grist.org. No forensic document examiner background here, but it does look like she has some Photoshop skills.
They are a couple of partisan hacks -- just what you'd expect -- Jess took the photos presented on their webpage and did all of the writing, while Joe basically held the COLB open for Jess to photograph -- suitable work for a Ph. D.
Those two are completely unqualified to perform any kind of forensic examination of any document, and FactCheck.org knows it -- and so do Henig and Miller. They are definitely not qualified to "certify" Barack Obama as president.
FactCheck does say their, "representatives got a chance to spend some time with the 'birth certificate,' and we can attest to the fact that it is real and three-dimensional and resides at the Obama headquarters in Chicago." In my mind, that clearly shows they were working with and for the Obama Campaign and that Obama and his people are involved in this lie. Lie? Hell, this is a conspiracy, the greatest fraud in American history and FactCheck.org boldly admits their part in it. www.theobamafile.com/_eligibility/AnnenbergFactCheckers.htm
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2011 21:29:05 GMT -5
burns... i don't care why you think... other people have looked at it an authententicated it... even World Net Daily admits the online images of the domcument are authentic and that the 'critics' aren't using good 'analysis'... "A separate WND investigation into Obama's certification of live birth utilizing forgery experts also found the document to be authentic. The investigation also revealed methods used by some of the bloggers to determine the document was fake involved forgeries, in that a few bloggers added text and images to the certificate scan that weren't originally there." Read more: Democrat sues Sen. Obama over 'fraudulent candidacy' www.wnd.com/?pageId=73214#ixzz1ItXEPO1Y
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Apr 7, 2011 21:31:46 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2011 21:33:04 GMT -5
"Annenberg network of liberal-left causes "
lmao... I guess Reagan was a liberal too? ... Hey henry.. HAWAII says that is the birth certificate form they use... i guess they'd know?
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