Bãsïs fór "Birther" Claims

[Virgil Showlion]

Just curious, after reading the lengthy Schlesinger rant Warsaw posted.

I've heard that Mr. Trump may have presidential aspirations based partly on a "birther" platform.

Schlesinger boldly states that President Obama's natural-born citizenship is a "fact". He doesn't bother to elaborate. I get the impression he either doesn't know or doesn't care if evidence exists otherwise.

Could someone enlighten me as to the basis of the controversy?

Has a record of Mr. Obama's birth not been found?
Is the authenticity of the documents in question?
Have contradictory documents been filed in another country?

Both sides are more than welcome to chip in. Note, however, that I don't consider the answer "There is absolutely no basis." to have any merit.

[chiver78]

Virgil, the question comes up because the State of Hawaii has not released the actual official record for viewing, as it is against state law to do so. unofficial copies have been released, but apparently those are not sufficient for the people that keep raising holy hell about it.

as far as contradictory documents from anywhere else, I'm not aware of any. I'm sure if there were, the people on this board that share Trump's opinion would have brought them up already.

[floridayankee]

LMAO....

Obama was concocted in a laboratory by Bolshevik Jews intent on conquering the United States and the world with their one beautiful Frankenstein’s monster creation: the inexorable, indefatigable, god-head man – Barrack Hussein Obama. Their plan was brilliant. First, give him a name that will ring as all-American with the electorate. Second, forge a certificate of live birth and plant birth announcements in the Hawaiian newspapers – again because in 1961, Hawaii was as all-American as snüs and kebabs. Thirdly, educate him in madrahsas and teach him to hate the great Satan, USA. Finally, send him to the USA late in his life and abra-cadoodle – the perfect candidate for president! It’s a natural born conspiracy theory for natural born natural suckers. Delusional natural born xenophobes whose meager lease on free thought has run out are being controlled by corporations who seek to destabilize and destroy the public sector in the United States, and what better way to achieve these ends than by creating doubt about the legitimacy of the President. Do I sound mad? Do I sound like I’m espousing a conspiracy theory? Well, let’s just sit back and let the porridge call the oatmeal bland.

This comes from a Q&A about the birther controversy.
[urlhttp://www.sandiego.com/news/opinion-feature-the-obama-birth-certificate-debate]The Obama Birth Certificate Debate[/url]

[Deleted]

Mar 31, 2011 4:28:11 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Has a record of Mr. Obama's birth not been found?
Is the authenticity of the documents in question?
Have contradictory documents been filed in another country?

A record has been found
The records have been verified to be accurate by Hawaii officials.
No other records in other countries have been filed or found.

[ugonow]

A record has been found
The records have been verified to be accurate by Hawaii officials.
No other records in other countries have been filed or found.

What on earth would Trump run on if this were indeed true? You are just plain wrong.

[Deleted]

Mar 31, 2011 8:37:15 GMT -5 ugonow said:

A record has been found
The records have been verified to be accurate by Hawaii officials.
No other records in other countries have been filed or found.

What on earth would Trump run on if this were indeed true? You are just plain wrong.

Oh my...

I'm fired!

[keywestsun]

Schlesinger boldly states that President Obama's natural-born citizenship is a "fact".

Schlesinger doesn't even know the meaning of natural-born citizen, anyone that takes time to read the history of the wording and the reason it was used, would never make that statement. Natural born was used to prevent any foreign influence from reaching the office of president, seems we have failed to follow our own law. Obama was born with dual citizenship, so he is not a natural born citizen. But it seem nobody want to follow the law, when it doesn't fit their objectives.

[chiver78]

Mar 31, 2011 8:58:05 GMT -5 @keywestsun said:

Obama was born with dual citizenship, so he is not a natural born citizen.

why don't you enlighten us, since that's what Virgil was asking. I was also born on US soil with dual citizenship, and have never been considered anything but a natural-born citizen.

[mmhmm]

Also found were microfiche copies of the announcement of Obama's birth at Queen's hospital in Honolulu in both the Honolulu Star-Bulletin and the Honolulu Advertiser. Those don't just materialize nearly 50 years after an event.

[Virgil Showlion]

A record has been found
The records have been verified to be accurate by Hawaii officials.

unofficial copies have been released, but apparently those are not sufficient for the people that keep raising holy hell about it.

So birthers, looks like "case closed" from Archie and chiver's standpoint.

What are they overlooking?

ETA:

Also found were microfiche copies of the announcement of Obama's birth at Queen's hospital in Honolulu in both the Honolulu Star-Bulletin and the Honolulu Advertiser.

Seems like another point for team chiver. Although I should point out that I could send in a March 31, 2011 birth announcement for 'Archie the Dragon' at the Queen's hospital in Honolulu and the newspapers would print it.

[henryclay]

"......... What are they overlooking?....... "

They are overlooking the wording of the Constitution for one thing. Obama would apparently hope that we all overlook the Constitution.

But I have a question for Obama. If it's no big deal, why not address it personally like any person of integrity would?

[mmhmm]

Mar 31, 2011 9:42:33 GMT -5 Virgil Showlion said:

Also found were microfiche copies of the announcement of Obama's birth at Queen's hospital in Honolulu in both the Honolulu Star-Bulletin and the Honolulu Advertiser.

[/font][/size][/quote]
Seems like another point for team chiver. Although I should point out that I could send in a March 31, 2011 birth announcement for 'Archie the Dragon' at the Queen's hospital in Honolulu and the newspapers would print it.[/quote]

You could, yes. However, they would not be found on microfiche from 1961.

Ooops! Messed up the quote and gotta go, so can't fix it! Sorry!

[chiver78]

Mar 31, 2011 10:01:38 GMT -5 henryclay said:

"......... What are they overlooking?....... "

They are overlooking the wording of the Constitution for one thing. Obama would apparently hope that we all overlook the Constitution.

But I have a question for Obama. If it's no big deal, why not address it personally like any person of integrity would?

what wording do you refer to here?

from the Constitution:

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President;

from the 14th Amendment:

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside

he was born in Hawaii, as been documented in official state records. what is it that you are seeing that is still in question?

[Deleted]

We all know that you cannot trust the government. Obama is the head of the government, ergo you cannot trust Obama.

Any and all documentation can be easily faked, people can be paid to say whatever Obama wants them to, those that say otherwise can be silenced.

[Angel!]

Mar 31, 2011 8:37:15 GMT -5 ugonow said:

A record has been found
The records have been verified to be accurate by Hawaii officials.
No other records in other countries have been filed or found.

What on earth would Trump run on if this were indeed true? You are just plain wrong.

Trump is being a moron & isn't going to win acting like this.

"In 2008, the Obama campaign released his birth certificate, certified by the Hawaii Department of Health, and posted a scanned image of it online. The posted certificate states that Obama was born in Honolulu, Hawaii, on August 4, 1961.[1] The certificate also states, "This copy serves as prima facie evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding". Frequent arguments of those questioning Obama's eligibility are that he has not released a photocopy of his "original" or "long form" birth certificate, but rather a redacted "short form" version. It has also been claimed that the use of the term "certification of live birth" on the document means it is not equivalent to one's "birth certificate". These arguments have been debunked numerous times by media investigations,[13] every judicial forum that has addressed the matter, and Hawaiian government officials—a consensus of whom have concluded that the certificate released by the Obama campaign is indeed his official birth certificate.[14] Asked about this, Hawaiian Department of Health spokeswoman Janice Okubo stated that Hawaii "does not have a short-form or long-form certificate".[15] Moreover, the director of her Department has confirmed that the state "has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures".[16][17]"

Pictures of the actual certificate: www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

Running on a birther platform is only making Trump look like an idiot & while it might appeal to the fringe groups, it won't win him an election.

[Virgil Showlion]

You could, yes. However, they would not be found on microfiche from 1961.

I'm saying that the funny business could have taken place in 1961.

Birth announcements are placed by happy relatives, not the newly-post-partum mom. Mom could theoretically be anywhere.

Having said that, if the ads specifically mention Queen's hospital in Honolulu the only 'birther'-compatible explanation is that somebody close to Mr. Obama began a purposed misinformation campaign back in 1961.

[Deleted]

We all know that Muslim's are extremely patient and they have sleeper cells all over the world. I don't think it is that far fetched.

[dancinmama]

Mar 31, 2011 10:40:01 GMT -5 Angel! said:

Running on a birther platform is only making Trump look like an idiot & while it might appeal to the fringe groups, it won't win him an election.

I agree. I don't see Trump as a viable candidate. I WOULD like to see someone who has just an ounce of business sense in the White House though.

What do you think of when you hear the word "budget"? The normal sense of the word doesn't seem to apply to government.

[workpublic]

ignorant, brainwashed, pub dupe o'reilly believes "without a shadow of doubt" that obama was born here. he pressed trump pretty hard on that issue last night on his show.

i would think that trump would be an ignorant pub dupe too, since he is rich and all of the rich are brain dead pub dupes.

[Mkitty is pro kitty]

Trump's got an airtight case against Obama:

"In an interview with ABC, Trump said he finds it strange 'nobody knew' Obama as a young child in Hawaii."
politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/17/trump-says-he-has-doubts-about-obama%E2%80%99s-birth-place/

and if someone says they remember him:

"TRUMP: You know what I get a kick out of? The governor of Hawaii says, oh I remember when Obama was born. I doubt it! I think this guy should be investigated. He remembers when Obama was born? Give me a break!"
www.alan.com/2011/03/28/donald-trump-wants-hawaii-governor-investigated-for-asserting-that-obama-was-born-there/

See? Obama wasn't born in Hawaii because nobody remembers him as a small child, and how could anyone remember him because it was so long ago? Check and mate Obama!

[burnsattornincan]

as far as contradictory documents from anywhere else, I'm not aware of any

How about contradictory comments like when his family back in Africa said he was born in that village, whatever the name of it was. What about the school records that turn up empty. For me there are just too many unanswered questions.

[ugonow]

But then again,he just might be Russianwww.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=88439

[vonnie6200]

This may explain part of it.

[chiver78]

Mar 31, 2011 11:15:47 GMT -5 burnsattornincan said:

as far as contradictory documents from anywhere else, I'm not aware of any

How about contradictory comments like when his family back in Africa said he was born in that village, whatever the name of it was. What about the school records that turn up empty. For me there are just too many unanswered questions.

just so we're clear on this - you'll take anecdotal evidence that supports your agenda, and ignore official state documents that don't. did I miss anything?

[Deleted]

Mar 31, 2011 11:43:06 GMT -5 vonnie6200 said:

This may explain part of it.

ROFL!!!!

[ugonow]

lol,read the comments after the vid. After a few nig$$er, etc posts,someone claims the spoof vid.

[Angel!]

Mar 31, 2011 11:45:22 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

Mar 31, 2011 11:15:47 GMT -5 burnsattornincan said:

as far as contradictory documents from anywhere else, I'm not aware of any

How about contradictory comments like when his family back in Africa said he was born in that village, whatever the name of it was. What about the school records that turn up empty. For me there are just too many unanswered questions.

just so we're clear on this - you'll take anecdotal evidence that supports your agenda, and ignore official state documents that don't. did I miss anything?

Facts don't have any relevance when it comes to Burns' beliefs.

But, this just shows that this will never fully go away. The people who don't want to believe he was born here will continue to make up reasons as to why the actual evidence doesn't matter. You can't kill a good conspiracy theory.

[Mkitty is pro kitty]

How about contradictory comments like when his family back in Africa said he was born in that village,

His "family" being one non-paternal grandmother. Oh, and it was a mistranslation.

"To all the birthers: No, Obama's grandmother didn't say he was born in Kenya"
current.com/news/90512425_to-all-the-birthers-no-obamas-grandmother-didnt-say-he-was-born-in-kenya.htm

What about the school records that turn up empty.

Unless Obama was born in a school and there was some record of it, this has no relevance.

For me there are just too many unanswered questions.

Is it a Conservative thing not to look very hard for the answers when you don't want them? The internet is your friend.

[henryclay]

There are two ways to be born a citizen of the United States. One is to be Native born, which is where anchor babies, born inside the United States, of illegal aliens fit.

The other way is to be Natural Born which is different and is THE primary qualification to become president.

Which one fiits Obama?

Does any liberal even know the deifference? Or if they do know, why does it not matter to them? Or if it doesn't matter to them, what else in the Constitution also doesn't matter to them?

[Deleted]

Mar 31, 2011 12:06:17 GMT -5 henryclay said:

There are two ways to be born a citizen of the United States. One is to be Native born, which is where anchor babies, born inside the United States, of illegal aliens fit.

The other way is to be Natural Born which is different and is THE primary qualification to become president.

Which one fiits Obama?

Does any liberal even know the deifference? Or if they do know, why does it not matter to them? Or if it doesn't matter to them, what else in the Constitution also doesn't matter to them?

Why have the birthers been so bad at proving it, if it is a straightforward constitutional definition issue? Is Obama that powerful?