Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 12, 2018 19:34:20 GMT -5
You seem to live in a black-and-white world. The world isn't that way. There are myriad shades of grey. I'm afraid you're wrong, my friend, as least as far as your claim pertains to the issues here. There is right, and there is wrong. "Do I as I do." and "Do as I say, not as I do." Likes, and absence of likes. Honourable conduct and dishonourable conduct. Criticism based on principle, and criticism based on resentment of the individual being criticized. Justification based on principle, and justification based on an appeal to consequences. Americans leading by example, and Americans passing the buck. Black and white. True and false. Valid and invalid. All of which cannot be buried beneath the most formidable heap of rationalizations and opining about shades of gray. To your credit, I don't recall seeing your name among those here who've called various countries "shitholes" or 'liked' posts using this language. So you're off the hook.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 12, 2018 19:42:29 GMT -5
dj: the day i start expecting as little of my president as i do of myself is the day i die. virgil: The day I give up my ideals because I'm just a lowly peon is the day I die. since i have never considered myself lowly, i can only imagine how much life must suck for you. you have my sympathies. good luck with them ideals. edit: i think you are getting thrown off by "as little". if "less" helps you understand my point, use that. Substituting "as little" with "less" completely changes the meaning of the statement, hence no, it doesn't help me to understand your point. If your point is that you don't expect less from Pres. Trump than you expect of yourself, you needn't worry, since you're one of the worst offenders at calling other nations "shitholes". If your point is that you expect a lot more from Pres. Trump because you expect little of yourself (which is the meaning of "as little as"), I stand by my "lowly peon" comment.
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tallguy
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Post by tallguy on Jan 12, 2018 19:54:23 GMT -5
You seem to live in a black-and-white world. The world isn't that way. There are myriad shades of grey. I'm afraid you're wrong, my friend, as least as far as your claim pertains to the issues here. There is right, and there is wrong. "Do I as I do." and "Do as I say, not as I do." Likes, and absence of likes. Honourable conduct and dishonourable conduct. Criticism based on principle, and criticism based on resentment of the individual being criticized. Justification based on principle, and justification based on an appeal to consequences. Americans leading by example, and Americans passing the buck. Black and white. True and false. Valid and invalid. All of which cannot be buried beneath the most formidable heap of rationalizations and opining about shades of gray. To your credit, I don't recall seeing your name among those here who've called various countries "shitholes" or 'liked' posts using this language. So you're off the hook. I was actually speaking more generally, but as it pertains to here you more confirmed my point than disputed it. People who were involved have agreed with my interpretation of events, thereby disputing yours, yet you still insist that your interpretation of them is correct simply because you cannot see their side. You don't recognize their motivations as valid because they don't match your preconceptions. And thank you for that last part. You are correct. I never have, never will. I prefer to keep my criticisms at a higher level, and save any diversion from that for those who prove that they richly deserve contempt. Fortunately, those are relatively few.
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Jan 12, 2018 19:56:56 GMT -5
Norway was mentioned because their PM was just here day before...gave a good talk...very presidential...even though only ac PM...real leader...very diplomatic vs.....so impressed our Donald.... I said I wonder desi and yes I do wonder. Please don't mischaracterize what it was that I said desi and I will do you the same favor. I have no idea why u are upset...none...but if it makes u feel better u have my apology for what ever got you so up set...whatever it was. Re read my post and am just shaking my head but as said...sorry...hope that helps u
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jan 12, 2018 20:02:40 GMT -5
Why were my posts pointing out Virgil's hypocrisy deleted?
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 12, 2018 20:10:10 GMT -5
You don't recognize their motivations as valid because they don't match your preconceptions. My "preconceptions" are the fruit of experience: noting (in the course of my digestion of what might well turn out to be 100,000+ posts) the content of posts 'liked' by various individuals and not 'liked' by those individuals. Your standard may differ, but I can't ignore this kind of evidence, even if posters insist I'm seeing patterns that aren't there. But I'll tell you what: The next time you see somebody on P/CE 'like' a post containing a prominent statement of opinion (such as that in Dark's post) you believe the 'like'-giver considers highly offensive, point it out to me and help me deconstruct my preconception that this virtually never happens.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 12, 2018 20:12:20 GMT -5
Why were my posts pointing out Virgil's hypocrisy deleted? I moved them to the beef board and tagged you. We can continue over there.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jan 12, 2018 20:25:40 GMT -5
Just for the record, Virgil, I'm sure sometimes one "likes" a post because they like the poster, and not the content of the post.
Put that in your black and white world before you start making assessments about "likes".
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 12, 2018 20:28:07 GMT -5
Actually I like posts when I can’t stand the poster. Posters can get it right occasionally.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Jan 12, 2018 20:35:22 GMT -5
I believe that Trump was speaking of the immigrants from certain third world countries, Why would we want them here,Since we are good on this board of scouring the internet for so obscure example to back what ever agenda we are pushing today. Here is mine for the next couple of minutes anyway. Immigrants for a third World Country that were productive citizens??Obama's aunt! Did She ever actually work? Or did She just suck off the system? OC have you ever actually met anyone from Haiti, El Salvador, or parts of Africa? Any of the immigrants Trump is referring to?
When I was a child my father owned a HVAC business, he had two El Salvadorans working for him. They were the hardest workers on his payroll, and not only were they his employees, but because they had no family here...they became part of our family. They spent holidays with us, cooked family meals with us, helped around the house and property (they rented a smaller home on our property). They practiced baseball with my sister, and drove me to my dance classes. They helped us deal with bully's...they were essentially our uncles, and they were good men, not lazy bums from a shithole country!
Unfortunately when my parents divorced and we moved to a different state, I lost contact with them. I would love to talk to them again, last I hear they had both married and started family, and were living the American dream.....and they worked DAMN hard for it.
They were certainly productive, more so than many Americans who suck off the system!
Are you bad mouthing Americans??
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Jan 12, 2018 20:43:32 GMT -5
Lie for a Liar or call a Democrat a Liar. Ok, I will sink down to his level and say I can't recall or I have no comment.
Everyone knows that means - He said exactly what has been reported.
I wonder how much Blackmail is going on in this administration. Not Horse Trading, outright Blackmail.
Republicans are going against their normal Principals to support what the Donald Wants. It makes no sense.
I think that is why so many republicans have announced they won't be running for re-election. They don't want to be blackmailed to do things against their principals. I believe they are hoping if a new person gets in there, the Republican Establishment won't have anything to blackmail a newbie with, so they can stand up to them.
I did not have sexual relations with that woman,,, or If you like your Dr.,, you can keep your Dr.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Jan 12, 2018 20:45:13 GMT -5
Norweigans aren't going to give up their quality of life to move here. We don't offer even 1/10th of what they have there. They are fine paying higher taxes when they get free healthcare, free education, free day care, & EVERYONE gets a pension at 65. There's nothing here we can offer them. damn, Norway is sounding pretty good right about now! Something like 50% income tax or like that.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Jan 12, 2018 20:46:38 GMT -5
The Donald’s lie counter is at over 2,000
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Jan 12, 2018 20:50:03 GMT -5
How many of these countries are going to return or refuse the money the Good OL USA gives them??
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 12, 2018 20:51:49 GMT -5
about an hour ago tallguy said: You seem to live in a black-and-white world. The world isn't that way. There are myriad shades of grey. Virgil: I'm afraid you're wrong, my friend, as least as far as your claim pertains to the issues here.
sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but i have never encountered such a black and white poster as you, Virgil.
tg is absolutely right here. if you can't see it in yourself, then it is a problem in self perception. in addition, i have never encountered a poster that doesn't say this about you. if you disagree, i can assure you that the way others see you and the way you see you are totally different. and i would posit that how you are seen is more important in the context of this discussion.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 12, 2018 20:53:11 GMT -5
damn, Norway is sounding pretty good right about now! Something like 50% income tax or like that. and worth every penny. you would rather have the CHOICE to pay 20% of your income to healthcare. in Norway, they eliminate that choice and pay half as much for it. what a calamity.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 12, 2018 20:58:22 GMT -5
Substituting "as little" with "less" completely changes the meaning of the statement, hence no, it doesn't help me to understand your point. not from my perspective. If your point is that you don't expect less from Pres. Trump than you expect of yourself, you needn't worry, since you're one of the worst offenders at calling other nations "shitholes". no, i pretty clearly say i expect more of him than i do of myself. but that does NOT imply that i don't expect much of myself. that is where you made your mistake. oh, and you are wrong, btw. i rarely use that (shithole) term. if you think otherwise, provide links. otherwise, i am calling that one a lie. i will up it to bald faced without support. If your point is that you expect a lot more from Pres. Trump because you expect little of yourself (which is the meaning of "as little as"), I stand by my "lowly peon" comment. well, that IS what i meant (minus the lined out portion, which i never said, nor meant). and you free to think of yourself any way you like, as i already stated. i expect my president to behave and speak far better than me. that is what it means to live in a Republic, Virgil. that doesn't mean that i think little of myself, AT ALL. did you really pass logic, or do you just like to fake it?
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jan 12, 2018 21:02:39 GMT -5
damn, Norway is sounding pretty good right about now! Something like 50% income tax or like that. When you factor in what you pay in taxes, then health insurance, then co-pays and deductibles, then the ridiculously high cost of daycare, eldercare, and university, you're probably paying more than the Norwegians do.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2018 21:03:21 GMT -5
I said I wonder desi and yes I do wonder. Please don't mischaracterize what it was that I said desi and I will do you the same favor. I have no idea why u are upset...none...but if it makes u feel better u have my apology for what ever got you so up set...whatever it was. Re read my post and am just shaking my head but as said...sorry...hope that helps u I'm not upset. Possible I misunderstood your post.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 12, 2018 21:09:35 GMT -5
Something like 50% income tax or like that. When you factor in what you pay in taxes, then health insurance, then co-pays and deductibles, then the ridiculously high cost of daycare, eldercare, and university, you're probably paying more than the Norwegians do. you can delete the probably. we pay about 40% in the US, and then we pay 20% for healthcare.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2018 21:09:38 GMT -5
Actually I like posts when I can’t stand the poster. Posters can get it right occasionally. I do too. I think there a quite a few people here that are able to separate the idea behind a post from the poster. There are also a few that will never do that. For them it's all about the poster. It's too bad but also very obvious so no biggie.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 12, 2018 21:14:18 GMT -5
How many of these countries are going to return or refuse the money the Good OL USA gives them?? if you are talking about World Bank funds, they are better off without them. those funds are no better than bribery for US corporate and religious interests. question for you: when are you going to stop buying Chinese crap at WalMart?
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Jan 12, 2018 21:17:22 GMT -5
Something like 50% income tax or like that. When you factor in what you pay in taxes, then health insurance, then co-pays and deductibles, then the ridiculously high cost of daycare, eldercare, and university, you're probably paying more than the Norwegians do. We probably are Welts.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 12, 2018 21:20:57 GMT -5
Virgil- i phrased that the best way i could. if you didn't like how i phrased it, that is fine. if you TOOK ME WRONG, that is also fine. i can live with all of that.
i have stated very clearly what i meant by that.
i was being tongue in cheek because i love to butcher the English language. however, i expect Trump to do better than me.
i was trying to say that "even though i fuck up and say things badly- SOMETIMES ON PURPOSE, i expect more of Trump", but i could not think of an elegant way of putting it at the time. if you can't buy that, then that's fine. i have no more time for this discussion. that is what i meant, and you can either take it or leave it. i don't give a fuck.
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OldCoyote
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Post by OldCoyote on Jan 12, 2018 21:21:04 GMT -5
The Donald’s lie counter is at over 2,000 Bean29, they all lie,, Trump seems to be ahead of the curve though.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 12, 2018 21:25:31 GMT -5
The Donald’s lie counter is at over 2,000 Bean29, they all lie,, Trump seems to be ahead of the curve though. Trump lies about 2.5x as frequently as any other person in public life. he will tell more lies in the first three years than Obama told in (8).
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Jan 12, 2018 21:37:35 GMT -5
When you factor in what you pay in taxes, then health insurance, then co-pays and deductibles, then the ridiculously high cost of daycare, eldercare, and university, you're probably paying more than the Norwegians do. you can delete the probably. we pay about 40% in the US, and then we pay 20% for healthcare. I like where I live, but it is not because of "low" taxes. It most certainly helps that I live in a liberal part of the country and that I rarely encounter people defending the blatant racism I have heard/read the last 24 hours. Back when dt was elected there was this big outcry by people when their elected candidate's racism was tied back to them. The battle cry was "just because we voted for dt, does not mean we are racists, we voted for him because...". Well today, may I suggest that those who defend this sorry excuse of a WH resident get themselves to the store and buy (a) a dictionary to look up the definition of the word racism, and (b) buy a mirror so they can look at one in private. Some serious soul searching is way overdue here
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jan 12, 2018 21:46:09 GMT -5
The Donald’s lie counter is at over 2,000 In a week, no doubt.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jan 13, 2018 0:00:15 GMT -5
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Jan 13, 2018 8:47:33 GMT -5
I have no idea why u are upset...none...but if it makes u feel better u have my apology for what ever got you so up set...whatever it was. Re read my post and am just shaking my head but as said...sorry...hope that helps u I'm not upset. Possible I misunderstood your post.
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