thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jan 16, 2018 8:54:44 GMT -5
If educated white people from Norway come - are they going to take my job and depress my wages?
Maybe I prefer people from shithole countries, so I can get cheap labor for my luxuries.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Jan 16, 2018 9:11:40 GMT -5
If educated white people from Norway come - are they going to take my job and depress my wages? Maybe I prefer people from shithole countries, so I can get cheap labor for my luxuries. That seems to be the Democrat's playbook right now. Remember all the threads we have had saying the usual physical jobs with a living wage are gone, and we must train our citizens for the new economy? It seems the democrats are fine letting millions come in to the country to do these same jobs. or even the more poorly paid jobs to keep their lifestyle afloat by making the illegals the victims in the country. If we are truly in the new world economy we should not be allowing all the slackers in here. We have raised more than our fair share of them already, and that field is way too crowded.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jan 16, 2018 9:37:32 GMT -5
If educated white people from Norway come - are they going to take my job and depress my wages? Maybe I prefer people from shithole countries, so I can get cheap labor for my luxuries. That seems to be the Democrat's playbook right now. Remember all the threads we have had saying the usual physical jobs with a living wage are gone, and we must train our citizens for the new economy? It seems the democrats are fine letting millions come in to the country to do these same jobs. or even the more poorly paid jobs to keep their lifestyle afloat by making the illegals the victims in the country. If we are truly in the new world economy we should not be allowing all the slackers in here. We have raised more than our fair share of them already, and that field is way too crowded. You do realize that the average African immigrant has a better education than most Americans, right?
www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-01-12/africa-is-sending-us-its-best-and-brightest 42% college educated compared to 28 percent of the native born American population.
The problem Trump and his ilk have with these immigrants is not that they are not educated. It's that they're not white. For the whites to be superior, they have to be the majority. The reason Trump has been so successful with this segment of the American population is they feel their white majority is being threatened by hoards of non white immigrants, legal and illegal.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Jan 16, 2018 9:58:17 GMT -5
That seems to be the Democrat's playbook right now. Remember all the threads we have had saying the usual physical jobs with a living wage are gone, and we must train our citizens for the new economy? It seems the democrats are fine letting millions come in to the country to do these same jobs. or even the more poorly paid jobs to keep their lifestyle afloat by making the illegals the victims in the country. If we are truly in the new world economy we should not be allowing all the slackers in here. We have raised more than our fair share of them already, and that field is way too crowded. You do realize that the average African immigrant has a better education than most Americans, right?
www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-01-12/africa-is-sending-us-its-best-and-brightest 42% college educated compared to 28 percent of the native born American population.
The problem Trump and his ilk have with these immigrants is not that they are not educated. It's that they're not white. For the whites to be superior, they have to be the majority. The reason Trump has been so successful with this segment of the American population is they feel their white majority is being threatened by hoards of non white immigrants, legal and illegal.
From the article: One of the most striking facts about immigration to the U.S., unbeknownst even to many immigration advocates, is the superior education of Africans coming to this country. If we consider adults age 25 or older, born in Africa and living in the U.S., 41.7 of them have a bachelor’s degree or more, according to 2009 data. For contrast, the native-born population has a bachelor’s degree or more at the much lower rate of only 28.1 percent in these estimates, and foreign-born adults as a whole have a college degree at the rate of 26.8 percent, both well below the African rate.
How about high school degrees? About one-third of immigrants overall lack this credential, but only 11.7 percent of African-born migrants don’t have a high school degree. That’s remarkably close to the rate for native-born Americans, estimated at 11.4 percent.I have to assume this is everyone from legal immigration. How about the illegal ones? I also cannot quantify what a high school education equivalency is from these countries from our own (it might actually be better than ours) although the deplorable conditions in ours due to Democratic socialism taking over the administration of the system here has destroyed ours, but that is another story. Quite frankly there should be the argument, if we take the cream of the crop from these nations, we are making it harder for these African nations to make much progress with the people left behind. Could the world actually be better off if their educated stayed home improving the quality of life there, thus improving the entire continent as well as, the well being of the planet. This also goes for the European countries, and is not race specific, but Human decency specific.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Jan 16, 2018 11:00:44 GMT -5
If educated white people from Norway come - are they going to take my job and depress my wages? Maybe I prefer people from shithole countries, so I can get cheap labor for my luxuries. If educated white people from Norway come and then become citizens, perhaps we'll get socialized medicine, paid parental leave, paid sick time, etc., as that is what most Norwegians are used to, and I suspect most of them wouldn't want to live in a hellhole without those benefits.
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 16, 2018 11:12:49 GMT -5
If educated white people from Norway come - are they going to take my job and depress my wages? Maybe I prefer people from shithole countries, so I can get cheap labor for my luxuries. That seems to be the Democrat's playbook right now. Remember all the threads we have had saying the usual physical jobs with a living wage are gone, and we must train our citizens for the new economy? It seems the democrats are fine letting millions come in to the country to do these same jobs. or even the more poorly paid jobs to keep their lifestyle afloat by making the illegals the victims in the country. historically, this has been bipartisan. i would argue that it still is, other than the blame game.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 16, 2018 11:13:37 GMT -5
If we are truly in the new world economy we should not be allowing all the slackers in here. We have raised more than our fair share of them already, and that field is way too crowded. there is some truth to this. we manufactured the problem right at home, and now we blame illegals for it.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 16, 2018 11:15:04 GMT -5
You do realize that the average African immigrant has a better education than most Americans, right?
www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-01-12/africa-is-sending-us-its-best-and-brightest 42% college educated compared to 28 percent of the native born American population.
The problem Trump and his ilk have with these immigrants is not that they are not educated. It's that they're not white. For the whites to be superior, they have to be the majority. The reason Trump has been so successful with this segment of the American population is they feel their white majority is being threatened by hoards of non white immigrants, legal and illegal.
From the article: One of the most striking facts about immigration to the U.S., unbeknownst even to many immigration advocates, is the superior education of Africans coming to this country. If we consider adults age 25 or older, born in Africa and living in the U.S., 41.7 of them have a bachelor’s degree or more, according to 2009 data. For contrast, the native-born population has a bachelor’s degree or more at the much lower rate of only 28.1 percent in these estimates, and foreign-born adults as a whole have a college degree at the rate of 26.8 percent, both well below the African rate.
How about high school degrees? About one-third of immigrants overall lack this credential, but only 11.7 percent of African-born migrants don’t have a high school degree. That’s remarkably close to the rate for native-born Americans, estimated at 11.4 percent. I have to assume this is everyone from legal immigration. How about the illegal ones? please tell me you know my position on illegal migration. i have stated it with almost angry stridency many times.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Jan 16, 2018 12:15:46 GMT -5
You do realize that the average African immigrant has a better education than most Americans, right?
www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-01-12/africa-is-sending-us-its-best-and-brightest 42% college educated compared to 28 percent of the native born American population.
The problem Trump and his ilk have with these immigrants is not that they are not educated. It's that they're not white. For the whites to be superior, they have to be the majority. The reason Trump has been so successful with this segment of the American population is they feel their white majority is being threatened by hoards of non white immigrants, legal and illegal.
From the article: One of the most striking facts about immigration to the U.S., unbeknownst even to many immigration advocates, is the superior education of Africans coming to this country. If we consider adults age 25 or older, born in Africa and living in the U.S., 41.7 of them have a bachelor’s degree or more, according to 2009 data. For contrast, the native-born population has a bachelor’s degree or more at the much lower rate of only 28.1 percent in these estimates, and foreign-born adults as a whole have a college degree at the rate of 26.8 percent, both well below the African rate.
How about high school degrees? About one-third of immigrants overall lack this credential, but only 11.7 percent of African-born migrants don’t have a high school degree. That’s remarkably close to the rate for native-born Americans, estimated at 11.4 percent. I have to assume this is everyone from legal immigration. How about the illegal ones? I also cannot quantify what a high school education equivalency is from these countries from our own (it might actually be better than ours) although the deplorable conditions in ours due to Democratic socialism taking over the administration of the system here has destroyed ours, but that is another story. Quite frankly there should be the argument, if we take the cream of the crop from these nations, we are making it harder for these African nations to make much progress with the people left behind. Could the world actually be better off if their educated stayed home improving the quality of life there, thus improving the entire continent as well as, the well being of the planet. This also goes for the European countries, and is not race specific, but Human decency specific. So you want to keep the Africans from immigrating to this country so they are forced to stay home and improve their own countries, for the betterment of society?
Interesting way to spin that. I think you can get a job with the Trump administration.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Jan 16, 2018 12:30:20 GMT -5
There is a point there. My state suffers from "brain drain", where those educated in the state leave for better opportunities in other states.
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Post by Value Buy on Jan 16, 2018 13:34:09 GMT -5
I have to assume this is everyone from legal immigration. How about the illegal ones? I also cannot quantify what a high school education equivalency is from these countries from our own (it might actually be better than ours) although the deplorable conditions in ours due to Democratic socialism taking over the administration of the system here has destroyed ours, but that is another story. Quite frankly there should be the argument, if we take the cream of the crop from these nations, we are making it harder for these African nations to make much progress with the people left behind. Could the world actually be better off if their educated stayed home improving the quality of life there, thus improving the entire continent as well as, the well being of the planet. This also goes for the European countries, and is not race specific, but Human decency specific. So you want to keep the Africans from immigrating to this country so they are forced to stay home and improve their own countries, for the betterment of society?
Interesting way to spin that. I think you can get a job with the Trump administration.
No spin. I asked if this included the illegal ones that are here as the article did not specify one way or the other. As far as Africans immigrating to this country it was just a question about immigration and what some of the unintended consequences can be for both countries. Also, note I said, goes for European countries too. I am 100% in favor of immigration from anywhere in the world. I am also 100% in favor of immigrants meeting a standard, and no education, coming here and working for below minimum wage jobs is not a qualifier. I do not believe a University education should be a requirement either, but a skill set of some job should be. We do not want our offspring to fall to this level, nor should we want a second class, uneducated and poorly paid migrant workforce becoming our servants.
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Jan 16, 2018 13:40:08 GMT -5
That seems to be the Democrat's playbook right now. Remember all the threads we have had saying the usual physical jobs with a living wage are gone, and we must train our citizens for the new economy? It seems the democrats are fine letting millions come in to the country to do these same jobs. or even the more poorly paid jobs to keep their lifestyle afloat by making the illegals the victims in the country. historically, this has been bipartisan. i would argue that it still is, other than the blame game. I 95% agree
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Value Buy
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Post by Value Buy on Jan 16, 2018 13:43:49 GMT -5
Are you really making the case that for the last 10 years, we've had just as many Americans leave this country as immigrants coming in? That seems pretty unbelievable. But even if that's true, the uneducated immigrants who came here 10+ years ago didn't evaporate or become neurosurgeons. Many of them are still here, still working the same jobs they took when they came here and therefore still depressing wages on the lower end. I work in IT, which means I've been competing with H1B visas my whole career. Despite this, I've still managed to make a good living. It isn't because I'm a genius or workaholic, far from that. The reason I've still been able to keep a job and earn a decent living is because the companies I work for do e-verify, which means that I'm only competing with legal immigrants, and their numbers are limited. If the corporate world stopped checking for citizenship, I guarantee you that this country would immediately be flooded with illegal immigrant IT workers, wages would plummet, and I'd likely be out of a job. But I'm protected, because the immigration is controlled. And it's sad that our more vulnerable citizens don't have this protection. did i not say ILLEGAL? i thought i did. H1B is legal. my apologies. i meant ILLEGAL. for the record, i don't know many that have serious issues with legal immigration. This seems to be a problem here on the board. Most posters do not see, or say there is a difference between legal and illegal immigration and want to sweep most conservatives into the anti-immigration camp because we oppose illegal immigration.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Jan 16, 2018 15:25:44 GMT -5
There is a point there. My state suffers from "brain drain", where those educated in the state leave for better opportunities in other states. The US is suffering a brain drain. From doctors to scientists, they're coming to Canada. Montreal is the word leader in artificial intelligence. From Google to Microsoft...they're coming and investing here. www.ibm.com/blogs/insights-on-business/ibmix/montreal-became-worlds-leading-ai-deep-learning-hub/From AI to digital art to special effects....it's happening here.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2018 15:44:17 GMT -5
So you want to keep the Africans from immigrating to this country so they are forced to stay home and improve their own countries, for the betterment of society?
Interesting way to spin that. I think you can get a job with the Trump administration.
No spin. I asked if this included the illegal ones that are here as the article did not specify one way or the other. As far as Africans immigrating to this country it was just a question about immigration and what some of the unintended consequences can be for both countries. Also, note I said, goes for European countries too. I am 100% in favor of immigration from anywhere in the world. I am also 100% in favor of immigrants meeting a standard, and no education, coming here and working for below minimum wage jobs is not a qualifier. I do not believe a University education should be a requirement either, but a skill set of some job should be. We do not want our offspring to fall to this level, nor should we want a second class, uneducated and poorly paid migrant workforce becoming our servants. Well, if you eat chicken, beef or vegetables, I hate to break it to you, you already have a poorly paid migrant workforce who are your servants. In fact, farmers are having a hard time here in CA getting their livestock raised, cows milked, and vegetables picked since the brown folks don't want to risk coming here to work anymore... And, I don't care what argument anyone makes, said brown folks work like dogs and make no complaints about it... The agricultural industry in this country, and a few others such as construction, rely on that cheap and illegal labor. It's not just that Americans don't want to do the jobs, it's also that American's understand that working for a few dollars an hour and getting raped in a field isn't a reasonable way to earn a living. Until that changes, Americans won't ever work those jobs. Here's the links so people don't say this doesn't happen. It happens daily, we just don't care because it is happening to "other" folks. www.hrw.org/news/2012/05/15/us-sexual-violence-harassment-immigrant-farmworkerswww.npr.org/2013/11/05/243219199/silenced-by-status-farm-workers-face-rape-sexual-abuse
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dezii
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Post by dezii on Jan 16, 2018 15:55:32 GMT -5
So you want to keep the Africans from immigrating to this country so they are forced to stay home and improve their own countries, for the betterment of society?
Interesting way to spin that. I think you can get a job with the Trump administration.
No spin. I asked if this included the illegal ones that are here as the article did not specify one way or the other. As far as Africans immigrating to this country it was just a question about immigration and what some of the unintended consequences can be for both countries. Also, note I said, goes for European countries too. I am 100% in favor of immigration from anywhere in the world. I am also 100% in favor of immigrants meeting a standard, and no education, coming here and working for below minimum wage jobs is not a qualifier. I do not believe a University education should be a requirement either, but a skill set of some job should be. We do not want our offspring to fall to this level, nor should we want a second class, uneducated and poorly paid migrant workforce becoming our servants. It seems as a country, we have done very well with those MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of uneducated, non English speaking immigrants over the decades...to list the inventions, businesses , political overseeing and more that they introduced here and which America first benefited from before being introduced world wide would take up way to much time or paper here,,, So what has changed? Legal, Illegal...color of the skin..ethnicity of these immigrants...why are so many Americans afraid of these new folks...hate them...? Our President , again, our leader...the POTUS is quite ready, able to use these 800,000..actually blackmail the opposition party...actually his own party too...you give him what he wants,,this many billion dollar wall or we deport these , for all intentions Americans in every sense, to where ever.....just sacrifice them.... Reminds me in a way of what Adolph did to his Army in Russia in WW2 by ordering commanding General not to withdraw no matter what...lost all 800,000 with only 10,000 returning home years after war was over..the rest.... Has the gaul to blame the Dems , their fault , because they don't cave in to the blackmail...and even the Pubs are horrified that he went back on his word, given openly at that infamous open Bi Partisan meeting... " just bring me the bill, I will sign it, I will take the heat" almost word for word...they negotiated , they did come to him with it..he screamed no and said some more filthy words..pissed off about 150 countries give or take a few...that's our Donald, that's our POTUS..[SHEESH] and some wonder why his rating for doing a good job is hovering in the mid 30's % wise. The man lies, then lies again and for good measure once more..."I am not a raciest " he screams out...seems on the hour lately...not realizing it is not up to him to say it but others and it seems by the GREAT majority of those others , the vote is in...he is considered a raciest...[sorry Donald..u lose, you are]
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Jan 16, 2018 17:37:18 GMT -5
If educated white people from Norway come - are they going to take my job and depress my wages? Maybe I prefer people from shithole countries, so I can get cheap labor for my luxuries. That seems to be the Democrat's playbook right now. Remember all the threads we have had saying the usual physical jobs with a living wage are gone, and we must train our citizens for the new economy? It seems the democrats are fine letting millions come in to the country to do these same jobs. or even the more poorly paid jobs to keep their lifestyle afloat by making the illegals the victims in the country. If we are truly in the new world economy we should not be allowing all the slackers in here. We have raised more than our fair share of them already, and that field is way too crowded. I thought the issues was Dreamers. They are already here and have jobs. They will not be taking away my job, as they already have a job. In addition to the dreamers, or other than the Dreamers, there are Undocumented Immigrants. They are willing to work, and take up the jobs that employers have difficulty filling.
People who would rather do drugs than work do not make good employees. They in fact are dangerous to have as co-workers.
We are trying to find a solution for the Dreamers. The other illegal aliens are a separate issue. Since a good 50% of them are visa overstays, building a wall will never eliminate the problem.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 16, 2018 19:44:16 GMT -5
did i not say ILLEGAL? i thought i did. H1B is legal. my apologies. i meant ILLEGAL. for the record, i don't know many that have serious issues with legal immigration. This seems to be a problem here on the board. Most posters do not see, or say there is a difference between legal and illegal immigration and want to sweep most conservatives into the anti-immigration camp because we oppose illegal immigration. not intentionally. we all make mistakes. sometimes it is haste. sometimes it is laziness. in my case, it was some combination of both. i meant to say illegal, but it is because that when i think of immigration problems that is what i think of.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Jan 16, 2018 20:11:24 GMT -5
I for one do. I have no friggin' clue how it is still possible for his approval rating to be that high!!!
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Jan 16, 2018 20:17:52 GMT -5
If educated white people from Norway come - are they going to take my job and depress my wages? Maybe I prefer people from shithole countries, so I can get cheap labor for my luxuries. This has been a bipartisan thing. Republican donors want cheap labor that doesn't complain. Democrats want votes. Again, the only reason why all of us aren't working for $10/hour is because companies who hire educated people do e-verify, so you don't have a lot of people with advanced degrees coming in here illegally. If we took away those protections, none of us would be safe.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 16, 2018 20:22:57 GMT -5
bugs the shit out of me. gives me dark thoughts.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Jan 16, 2018 20:40:40 GMT -5
I do think abuse of H-1B visa program (legal) immigration is a problem. Often there are US Citizens that could do the jobs, but they want higher wages.
However, if the alternative is subing the job out to some sort of international company, Denying the H-1B visa is not necessarily going to protect an American Job.
H-1B Visa Holders are legal immigrants. Often taking jobs like Engineering, so they are not uneducated, and not just anyone could fill that job.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Jan 16, 2018 20:43:51 GMT -5
If educated white people from Norway come - are they going to take my job and depress my wages? Maybe I prefer people from shithole countries, so I can get cheap labor for my luxuries. This has been a bipartisan thing. Republican donors want cheap labor that doesn't complain. Democrats want votes. Again, the only reason why all of us aren't working for $10/hour is because companies who hire educated people do e-verify, so you don't have a lot of people with advanced degrees coming in here illegally. If we took away those protections, none of us would be safe. How do Legal/and or illegal aliens vote? It is my understanding that citizenship is required to vote.
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Jan 16, 2018 21:13:45 GMT -5
This has been a bipartisan thing. Republican donors want cheap labor that doesn't complain. Democrats want votes. Again, the only reason why all of us aren't working for $10/hour is because companies who hire educated people do e-verify, so you don't have a lot of people with advanced degrees coming in here illegally. If we took away those protections, none of us would be safe. How do Legal/and or illegal aliens vote? It is my understanding that citizenship is required to vote. Indeed it is. So illegal labor, at least for the reasons described above, seems to benefit Republicans far more than Democrats who may get the sympathy vote for favoring illegal labor. However, the latter seems unlikely since they would also lose the votes of those who prefer to sit at home complaining how they can't get jobs because...
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Jan 17, 2018 12:38:58 GMT -5
This has been a bipartisan thing. Republican donors want cheap labor that doesn't complain. Democrats want votes. Again, the only reason why all of us aren't working for $10/hour is because companies who hire educated people do e-verify, so you don't have a lot of people with advanced degrees coming in here illegally. If we took away those protections, none of us would be safe. How do Legal/and or illegal aliens vote? It is my understanding that citizenship is required to vote. you can take that logic further. the only way they can do this is to vote using someone elses' ID, which means that they might risk their status here by showing up and voting. if that sounds insane, it is. which is why it is probably not happening, and that less than 30 cases of in person voter fraud have been successfully prosecuted in the last decade, and over half of them were Republicans.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 17, 2018 12:41:55 GMT -5
The one that was prosecuted for in person fraud here had been sucked so far into the "illegals are being bussed in by the thousands to vote for Hillary!" conspiracy that she felt compelled to cancel out all those votes. She voted in her county and then drove to the next county to vote again.
The irony was not lost on me.
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Post by grits on Jan 17, 2018 15:14:43 GMT -5
His remarks are inappropriate but from what I've seen online, and in public, he's acting like a lot of the american public. He's as rude, inconsiderate, and obnoxious as a lot of people online, and in person.
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Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 17, 2018 17:50:41 GMT -5
His remarks are inappropriate but from what I've seen online, and in public, he's acting like a lot of the american public. He's as rude, inconsiderate, and obnoxious as a lot of people online, and in person. No few of which reside right here on our board, at least when it comes to calling people, places, parties, and institutions every foul name under the sun. But we're not the US President, so...
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dondub
Senior Associate
The meek shall indeed inherit the earth but only after the Visigoths are done with it.
Joined: Jan 16, 2014 19:31:06 GMT -5
Posts: 12,110
Location: Seattle
Favorite Drink: Laphroig
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Post by dondub on Jan 17, 2018 17:56:23 GMT -5
That's right. This is just a message board but we are very fortunate to have a moral compass in our midst.
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Virgil Showlion
Distinguished Associate
Moderator
[b]leones potest resistere[/b]
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 15:19:33 GMT -5
Posts: 27,448
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jan 17, 2018 18:10:12 GMT -5
That's right. This is just a message board but we are very fortunate to have a moral compass in our midst. Just a fellow traveler asking you to look at your own moral compass once in a while.
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