NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Aug 30, 2017 12:39:53 GMT -5
So have day care centers, synagogues and mosques. And FWIW, no one is passing judgement in any of these hard-hit areas as to what kind of space it is. People seem very grateful for it. I know I would be. I think Osteen is a Houston-sized hypocrite who does not want to soil his tidy church space. No services on Sunday because your church has storm refugees in it, Pastor? Oh freaking shucks. I doubt most houses of worship in the Houston area will be functioning normally this Sunday, or any Sunday in the near future. I do not doubt for a second that if Jesus was walking the earth now, He'd be working the food donation lines, or manning a rescue boat, or piloting a chopper in Houston. He would not be locking the doors of a sanctuary to keep out the needy. Sounds like Jesus is a classic underachiever. If you have the power to make miracles, shouldn't you be putting it to better use than working a food donation line? Why not just turn the water into bacon and let us all eat our way out of the disaster? And that is not a bad idea, but seriously, that is a lot of pork. I mean, even as a Jew, I understand bacon. Still, even the people who swear they'd put bacon on everything would get a little tired of that much. Obviously, my point was that Jesus would not be refusing to help. He would do whatever He could, big or small, to assist, using whatever available resources were at hand. Osteen has the resources, both personal and church-based, to help, and had to be shamed into it. My people have a word to describe people like him. Actually, we have several. I'd post them, but I would be banned.
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dannylion
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Post by dannylion on Aug 30, 2017 12:53:04 GMT -5
Funny how the convention centers, schools and community centers aren't freaking out over this. They just want to provide the victims with a safe dry space. Some don't have food or water either, but have flung open their doors nonetheless. So have day care centers, synagogues and mosques. And FWIW, no one is passing judgement in any of these hard-hit areas as to what kind of space it is. People seem very grateful for it. I know I would be. I think Osteen is a Houston-sized hypocrite who does not want to soil his tidy church space. No services on Sunday because your church has storm refugees in it, Pastor? Oh freaking shucks. I doubt most houses of worship in the Houston area will be functioning normally this Sunday, or any Sunday in the near future. I do not doubt for a second that if Jesus was walking the earth now, He'd be working the food donation lines, or manning a rescue boat, or piloting a chopper in Houston. He would not be locking the doors of a sanctuary to keep out the needy. Not being able to hold services in the megachurch translates to lost opportunities to fleece the flock receive the grateful cash donations of their members at each service. Though now that I think about it, they probably require monthly automatic debit contributions. Can't leave that sort of thing to chance.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Aug 30, 2017 13:18:50 GMT -5
My conservative friends on FB are posting about how they are praying for Texas.
My liberal friends on FB are posting links about where to donate $$ or volunteer to help flood victims.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Aug 30, 2017 13:27:28 GMT -5
Sounds like Jesus is a classic underachiever. If you have the power to make miracles, shouldn't you be putting it to better use than working a food donation line? Why not just turn the water into bacon and let us all eat our way out of the disaster? And that is not a bad idea, but seriously, that is a lot of pork. I mean, even as a Jew, I understand bacon. Still, even the people who swear they'd put bacon on everything would get a little tired of that much. Obviously, my point was that Jesus would not be refusing to help. He would do whatever He could, big or small, to assist, using whatever available resources were at hand. Osteen has the resources, both personal and church-based, to help, and had to be shamed into it. My people have a word to describe people like him. Actually, we have several. I'd post them, but I would be banned. In fairness, comparing anyone on the planet and their actions to "what Jesus would do" is going to end up everyone falling so short that there's no real distinction. Should we shame all billionaires in the world who report to be Christians for not choosing to donate their entire net worths? Surely that's what Jesus would do right?
We're again into the situation of "I already don't like this person, so let me find standards to apply to them that are negative, which I won't apply to anyone else because I like them".
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Aug 30, 2017 13:29:49 GMT -5
My conservative friends on FB are posting about how they are praying for Texas.
My liberal friends on FB are posting links about where to donate $$ or volunteer to help flood victims.
'Pray to God, but row away from the rocks.'Hunter S. Thompson
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2017 13:39:43 GMT -5
My conservative friends on FB are posting about how they are praying for Texas.
My liberal friends on FB are posting links about where to donate $$ or volunteer to help flood victims.
LOL “We have received many thoughts and prayers from throughout the country and the world, most of which have been great,” explains FEMA member Frank Costello. “We get the occasional strange or dirty thought that seeps through, but mostly they have been very positive and helpful. So far, there just haven’t been quite enough.” thesciencepost.com/11568-thoughts-prayers-needed-help-hurricane-harvey/
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Aug 30, 2017 13:41:52 GMT -5
My conservative friends on FB are posting about how they are praying for Texas.
My liberal friends on FB are posting links about where to donate $$ or volunteer to help flood victims.
'Pray to God, but row away from the rocks.'Hunter S. Thompson This reminds me of the old (sad) joke that makes the rounds every time there is a disaster:
The old man was told by his local police department to evacuate his home because a flood was coming. "No thanks," he said, "God will save me." No amount of pleading by the officers would change his mind, so they reluctantly drove away.
The flood waters rose into the first floor, and a neighbor in a row boat floated by to help the old man. "Get in," said the man, "I will row you to safety." "No thanks," said the old man, hanging out the window, "God will save me." So the neighbor rowed away.
The flood waters rose even more, and the old man scrambled onto his roof. Soon an emergency helicopter showed up, and dropped a rope ladder down to the old man. "Climb up," said the rescuers, "We're here to save you." "No thanks," said the old man, "God will save me." So the helicopter flew away, plucking other people off of roofs as they went.
So the flood waters raged on, and the old man was swept away and drowned. When he reached the Pearly Gates, he scowled at God. "God," he said, "I trusted in you all of my life. I prayed every day that you would help me and keep me safe. Why in my last hours of need did you abandon me?"
"My child," responded God, "I did not abandon you. Didn't you see the cop car, the row boat or the helicopter I sent you?"
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 30, 2017 14:01:29 GMT -5
I have real issues with mega churches and the money they squeeze from their flock. Victoria Osteen had a tantrum in first class a few years ago if IIRC. I decided to look up this tantrum. Was it an incident with a flight attendant which the courts and the other passengers agreed it was a verbal disagreement? I don't know if she acted badly or not, but the flight attendant said she physically threw her against the cockpit door and sued for $405,000 plus was going for 10% of her net worth in punitive damages.
abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=5586434&page=1
What everyone agrees on is this: Osteen was upset about a liquid spilled on the armrest of her first-class seat. She approached flight attendants about getting it cleaned up. What happened next was open to debate.
While acknowledging that yes, there was some sort of incident on the airplane, the jury decided that it was nothing that should have ended up in court. "I don't think Sharon Brown lied, I think she just exaggerated what happened," said juror Mark Bowden. "I think it was verbal, but not physical."
Whether you're in first class or not, your seat should be clean.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Aug 30, 2017 14:15:21 GMT -5
And that is not a bad idea, but seriously, that is a lot of pork. I mean, even as a Jew, I understand bacon. Still, even the people who swear they'd put bacon on everything would get a little tired of that much. Obviously, my point was that Jesus would not be refusing to help. He would do whatever He could, big or small, to assist, using whatever available resources were at hand. Osteen has the resources, both personal and church-based, to help, and had to be shamed into it. My people have a word to describe people like him. Actually, we have several. I'd post them, but I would be banned. In fairness, comparing anyone on the planet and their actions to "what Jesus would do" is going to end up everyone falling so short that there's no real distinction. Should we shame all billionaires in the world who report to be Christians for not choosing to donate their entire net worths? Surely that's what Jesus would do right?
We're again into the situation of "I already don't like this person, so let me find standards to apply to them that are negative, which I won't apply to anyone else because I like them".
Personally, I don't dislike Osteen. However he made his money is how he did it. No member of his flock was (I presume) forced to hand over money to him. I don't like his recent actions, but he is probably a pretty likable guy overall. Just did something that is counter to common sense in the current circumstances.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 30, 2017 14:28:41 GMT -5
I can't provide a shower, laundry service or a hot meal, so the obvious solution is to let all those fuckers die. I'm sure that would be their choice too over a sandwich, a bottle of water and being dirty for a few days. No one should be treated like that. They are much better off dog paddling around their house that is flooded to the second floor.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Aug 30, 2017 14:33:09 GMT -5
And that is not a bad idea, but seriously, that is a lot of pork. I mean, even as a Jew, I understand bacon. Still, even the people who swear they'd put bacon on everything would get a little tired of that much. Obviously, my point was that Jesus would not be refusing to help. He would do whatever He could, big or small, to assist, using whatever available resources were at hand. Osteen has the resources, both personal and church-based, to help, and had to be shamed into it. My people have a word to describe people like him. Actually, we have several. I'd post them, but I would be banned. In fairness, comparing anyone on the planet and their actions to "what Jesus would do" is going to end up everyone falling so short that there's no real distinction. Should we shame all billionaires in the world who report to be Christians for not choosing to donate their entire net worths? Surely that's what Jesus would do right?
We're again into the situation of "I already don't like this person, so let me find standards to apply to them that are negative, which I won't apply to anyone else because I like them".
Personally, if and only if, a billionaire made their billion $ by peddling Jesus, then yes, I'd expect them to give a big portion of it away. That is the standard that is written in the bible.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Aug 30, 2017 15:51:28 GMT -5
I can't provide a shower, laundry service or a hot meal, so the obvious solution is to let all those fuckers die. I'm sure that would be their choice too over a sandwich, a bottle of water and being dirty for a few days. No one should be treated like that. They are much better off dog paddling around their house that is flooded to the second floor. That's seems a bit melodramatic as if there's only dog paddle or be inside Lakewood church. Katrina taught us infrastructure and planning were very important in dealing with the refugees. After Katrina we had people sitting on bridges getting sick due to exposure. If there were pics of hundred of people on the Lakewood Church lawn just waiting to get in, I missed it. Rescues are going slowly. One person recently interviewed waited 36 hours for rescue. She finally got it by walking in waist deep water to a gas station.
Without infrastructure in place, i.e. supplies or impending donations, all you really have is water from the tap and whatever food is in the building.
Do you remember how bad it was in the Superdome? And that was planned, but quickly overwhelmed because of demand. I am hoping since they seem to have confirmed the church won't flood that they get the supplies and volunteers to do it right. www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/trapped-in-the-superdome-refuge-becomes-a-hellhole/
The Louisiana Superdome, once a mighty testament to architecture and ingenuity, became the biggest storm shelter in New Orleans the day before Katrina’s arrival Monday. About 16,000 people eventually settled in. Within two days, it had degenerated into unspeakable horror.
Baby supplies are running low; one mother said she was given two diapers and told to scrape them off when they got dirty and use them again. Most of the refugees are given two nine-ounce bottles of water a day and two boxed meals: spaghetti, Thai chicken or jambalaya.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Aug 30, 2017 18:18:37 GMT -5
There was rape and other crimes being committed after Katrina so Is someone going to stand around in halls and bathrooms armed to make sure no one is harmed? 24/7? If something bad does happen who is going to be held responsible?
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Artemis Windsong
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Post by Artemis Windsong on Aug 30, 2017 18:23:35 GMT -5
Emergency managers have a protocol or SOP of how/where/when to house evacuees.
Just because the church seats 16,000, doesn't mean it sleeps 16,000.
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busymom
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Post by busymom on Aug 30, 2017 19:43:59 GMT -5
In fairness, comparing anyone on the planet and their actions to "what Jesus would do" is going to end up everyone falling so short that there's no real distinction. Should we shame all billionaires in the world who report to be Christians for not choosing to donate their entire net worths? Surely that's what Jesus would do right?
We're again into the situation of "I already don't like this person, so let me find standards to apply to them that are negative, which I won't apply to anyone else because I like them".
Personally, if and only if, a billionaire made their billion $ by peddling Jesus, then yes, I'd expect them to give a big portion of it away. That is the standard that is written in the bible. Exactly! If you're talking the talk, you'd better walk the walk...
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Aug 30, 2017 20:15:14 GMT -5
Last pastor at the church where I worked that got closed because it went broke never donated a dime to the church.
The pastor who hired me donated at least what he made and he wasn't always getting paid. Supply pastors often donated their check. The long term supply pastor tithed. The only one who never donated was the one who helped cause the church to be closed.
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Aug 30, 2017 20:21:08 GMT -5
Emergency managers have a protocol or SOP of how/where/when to house evacuees. Just because the church seats 16,000, doesn't mean it sleeps 16,000. It could probably hold about 1,000.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Aug 30, 2017 20:32:35 GMT -5
I think that the spin Olsteen is putting on this isn't doing them any favors. Had they come up with "We goofed, I'm sorry. We will do what we can now and take a lesson from this", I think I'd respect him a whole hell of a lot more.
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spartan7886
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Post by spartan7886 on Aug 30, 2017 21:06:14 GMT -5
That's seems a bit melodramatic as if there's only dog paddle or be inside Lakewood church. Katrina taught us infrastructure and planning were very important in dealing with the refugees. After Katrina we had people sitting on bridges getting sick due to exposure. If there were pics of hundred of people on the Lakewood Church lawn just waiting to get in, I missed it. Rescues are going slowly. One person recently interviewed waited 36 hours for rescue. She finally got it by walking in waist deep water to a gas station. Without infrastructure in place, i.e. supplies or impending donations, all you really have is water from the tap and whatever food is in the building.
Do you remember how bad it was in the Superdome? And that was planned, but quickly overwhelmed because of demand. I am hoping since they seem to have confirmed the church won't flood that they get the supplies and volunteers to do it right. www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/trapped-in-the-superdome-refuge-becomes-a-hellhole/
The Louisiana Superdome, once a mighty testament to architecture and ingenuity, became the biggest storm shelter in New Orleans the day before Katrina’s arrival Monday. About 16,000 people eventually settled in. Within two days, it had degenerated into unspeakable horror.
Baby supplies are running low; one mother said she was given two diapers and told to scrape them off when they got dirty and use them again. Most of the refugees are given two nine-ounce bottles of water a day and two boxed meals: spaghetti, Thai chicken or jambalaya.
As opposed to leaving them in George R Brown convention center where they are already at twice the original planned capacity? And donated supplies are not an issue right now. FEMA is expecting 450,000 people to require some form of assistance. Even if we assume all of them need a shelter and are in the greater Houston area, that still leaves over 90% of us in good shape. The first six shelters I contacted yesterday turned away my offer of donations, saying they were at capacity. The seventh location accepted it, but they only had room because they were not taking in refugees at the time (they had previously been a shelter and would later become one again) and so had room to organize goods in the entire gym. The only thing I'm seeing consistent requests for is cash and eggs. Everything else you see a request go out and by the time you get it in hand they've pulled the request because they have already been supplied.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 30, 2017 22:49:00 GMT -5
So have day care centers, synagogues and mosques. And FWIW, no one is passing judgement in any of these hard-hit areas as to what kind of space it is. People seem very grateful for it. I know I would be. I think Osteen is a Houston-sized hypocrite who does not want to soil his tidy church space. No services on Sunday because your church has storm refugees in it, Pastor? Oh freaking shucks. I doubt most houses of worship in the Houston area will be functioning normally this Sunday, or any Sunday in the near future. I do not doubt for a second that if Jesus was walking the earth now, He'd be working the food donation lines, or manning a rescue boat, or piloting a chopper in Houston. He would not be locking the doors of a sanctuary to keep out the needy. Sounds like Jesus is a classic underachiever. If you have the power to make miracles, shouldn't you be putting it to better use than working a food donation line? Why not just turn the water into bacon and let us all eat our way out of the disaster? Jesus was Jewish, Did he keep kosher?
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moneyminded
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Post by moneyminded on Aug 30, 2017 23:17:16 GMT -5
So much hatred on this thread and definitely a lot of judging. So what if he got "shamed" by the media into opening the doors, if that is indeed how it happened? Osteen could've kept them closed, but he didn't. We don't know what was going on behind the scenes with this church. Who is anyone to judge from the convenience of one's armchair?
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moneyminded
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Post by moneyminded on Aug 30, 2017 23:18:53 GMT -5
And to make fun of Jesus? Wow, just wow.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Aug 31, 2017 6:13:34 GMT -5
Spartan, how the heck am I supposed to know the state of supplies, what the roads look like given I have no TV, live in NJ? And the presumption was dog paddling in the water. Is the convention center flooded now?
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spartan7886
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Post by spartan7886 on Aug 31, 2017 8:36:11 GMT -5
Opti The convention center is fine, water-wise. Much of the flooding downtown has gone down. The reservoirs west of town and the neighborhoods they drain to are the biggest issue now for Houston proper. As for the question about how you're supposed to know, you just wound up being my target on how the media is portraying the amount of devastation. No doubt, there is a lot, but a large part of that is just related to how many Houstonians there are.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Aug 31, 2017 9:59:03 GMT -5
Interesting how there are religious people on one side, handing up excuse after excuse for why Osteen couldn't open the doors to anyone whatsoever - and non-religious do-gooders on the other side, saying at least shelter some people. So much for trying to model your lives after Jesus.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Aug 31, 2017 10:56:11 GMT -5
The concept of sacrifice is lost on so many American Christians.
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swasat
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Post by swasat on Aug 31, 2017 11:13:03 GMT -5
And to make fun of Jesus? Wow, just wow. I make fun of Jesus all the time. So far I am still alive, still flourishing and no lightening has ever hit me. Haha.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Aug 31, 2017 11:15:36 GMT -5
And to make fun of Jesus? Wow, just wow. I make fun of Jesus all the time. So far I am still alive, still flourishing and no lightening has ever hit me. Haha. day's not over yet.
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Aug 31, 2017 11:16:31 GMT -5
I would think that Jesus could take a little teasing.
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Aug 31, 2017 11:20:31 GMT -5
If there is such a thing as Osteen Derangement Syndrome I have it. I have no problem with religion in general, we have friends who are members of religious orders, I don't think it's incompatible with being being good at science, etc. But he just strikes me as an incredible opportunist - a religious entrepreneur selling salvation and smugness for the low, low price of a book or cd. I think he looks especially bad compared to his fellow religious leaders. A lot of churches/religious organizations in the area prepped for the storm, took people in, made plans for after the storm, and are gathering supplies. It appears Lakewood church was never expecting to help. I grew up Catholic and for me the wealthier I get the more I need the reminder of communal good, of sacrifice, of the universal worth of humans even if they make poor choices. That every soul has dignity. It's really easy to buy into the idea that outward symbols of success are the sole determinant of a person's worth. It's my problem with meritocracy too. But I think Osteen really feeds into it.
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