Outlawing child marriage

[swamp]

northcountrynow.com/news/bill-ban-child-marriages-passes-assembly-jennes-support-0200716

should this even be debatable in 2017.  I see no reason to allow people under 18 to get married. 

[Sharon]

I wouldn't have a problem with 17 year olds being allowed to marry if they had finished high school.

[billisonboard]

This does nothing to prevent the two people from living together. It just prevents them from registering their relationship with the state.

[Deleted]

How do marriage and statutory rape laws work together? Is this for cults, etc. I think of 'compounds' when I think child bride in America...

[Deleted]

I just looked it up. New York used to allow 14 year olds to marry. So you could technically statutorily rape a 14 year old if you got her parents to 'give' her to you. Yes they could still live together... but it would be illegal now.

[Shooby]

I didn't know it was a big problem in this country.  But, yeah we don't want kids to marry.  However, there are probably rare instances where it is necessary if there is a baby involved to access insurance, etc.  I don't know.

[billisonboard]

Jun 11, 2017 5:27:15 GMT -5 oped said:

I just looked it up. New York used to allow 14 year olds to marry. So you could technically statutorily rape a 14 year old if you got her parents to 'give' her to you. . ..

If either applicant is 14 or 15 years of age, such applicant(s) must present the written consent of both parents and a justice of the Supreme Court or a judge of the Family Court having jurisdiction over the town or city in which the application is made. www.health.ny.gov/publications/4210/

[Deleted]

Ok. Then parents and judge 'gave' her... that doesn't make it better in any way.  Still, this changes with the law. Living together doesn't protect an adult from statutory rape of a minor the way that marriage would have.

[giramomma]

I dunno. I think it depends.

My Aunt and Uncle where HS sweethearts and married really young. (18 or 19) They were married for a bit over 30 years before my uncle passed away. They seemed to have a normal marriage, from what little I was exposed to... no violence, etc.

It was interesting to watch my aunt...she pretty much hopped into another relationship right afterwords. She didn't know how to be single. They did eventually marry. I

If they would have gotten married at 17, I would have been pretty meh about it. I'm guessing others would too.

Obviously there's something wrong with a 25 year old marrying a 14 year old.

But I don't also think 18 is some magic number where people are suitable for marriage. I wasn't a suitable for marriage until really, close to 35, but I had already been married for 8ish years. So, how do you begin to legislate that?

I also think rural life is a bit different. We don't bat an eyelash when rural kids learn(ed) how to drive way earlier than 16...

[Deleted]

The new law allows marriage with consent and judge at 17. 

Its the 14-15 yr olds I'm guessing most an issue. 

I thought the point that shelters cant take unaccompanied minors was an interesting point, meaning that group, already at a much greater risk of coercion and violence in marriage, are also uniquely unable to seek help.

[giramomma]

NY also has partial Romeo and Juliet Laws.

In New York, there is a partial Romeo and Juliet exemption for consensual sex between a minor who is 15 or 16 and someone who is younger than 21. There is also a partial exception a minor who is 11, 12, 13, or 14 years old, and a defendant who is younger than 17. This is a partial exception because, while these parties are protected from felony prosecution, they may nonetheless be charged for sexual misconduct (a misdemeanor) which can incur up to one year in jail.

www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/new-york-statutory-rape-laws.htm

So, we also don't know that age of the "adult" vs. the minor, per the article OP posted.

A 16 yo marrying an 18 yo? I wouldn't be thrilled and clearly that wouldn't be my choice...but depending on the circumstances, not horrible either...If the parents consent, who am I to say anything.

But, again, much different than a 14 year old even marry an 19 year old.

[giramomma]

Jun 11, 2017 6:47:58 GMT -5 oped said:

The new law allows marriage with consent and judge at 17. 

Its the 14-15 yr olds I'm guessing most an issue. 

I thought the point that shelters cant take unaccompanied minors was an interesting point, meaning that group, already at a much greater risk of coercion and violence in marriage, are also uniquely unable to seek help.

I saw this...

I think my answer would be to make sure teens (whether married or unmarried) can leave poor situations....whether it's the parents or spouses.

I live in a city of 200K. To my knowledge there is only one shelter for youth. 

[Deleted]

"Data after 2010 excludes New York City, where statistics are kept separately. Still, the state data show that in 2011 alone, a 14-year-old married a 26-year-old, a 15-year-old was wed to a 28-year-old, another 15-year-old was wed to a 25-year-old and a 15-year-old married someone age “35 to 39.” All of those marriages were approved by New York judges."

www.nytimes.com/2015/10/14/opinion/americas-child-marriage-problem.html?_r=0

[billisonboard]

Jun 11, 2017 6:47:58 GMT -5 oped said:

The new law allows marriage with consent and judge at 17. 

Its the 14-15 yr olds I'm guessing most an issue. 

I thought the point that shelters cant take unaccompanied minors was an interesting point, meaning that group, already at a much greater risk of coercion and violence in marriage, are also uniquely unable to seek help.

Between 2000 and 2010, nearly 3,900 child marriages took place in New York and, of those, 40 involved 14- and 15-year-olds. (From link in OP)

Not sure what would convince a judge to allow a person that young to get married but it would be interesting to look at those 40 times in a ten year period to see how many we disagree with once we knew the specifics.

[Deleted]

I disagree with all 14 and 15 year olds marrying. 

[Deleted]

But I guess swamps OP is answered.

[billisonboard]

Jun 11, 2017 7:18:49 GMT -5 oped said:

I disagree with all 14 and 15 year olds marrying. 

There are a lot of things that individuals do that I don't agree are a good idea. Sometimes when I learn more about why, I change my mind. Sometimes I still disagree.

[lund]

I dislike child marriage.

The parents are in a very strong position of power and can coerce, manipulate, and/or threaten their offspring into marriage.
The minor is too young to be self-supporting, and has few options to get away from an unwanted marriage. (S/he may not even have a bank account or an ID card...)

Early marriage often means that at least one partner, usually the woman, will be and remain insufficiently educated (not finishing HS), and thus may know very little about her rights and have little ability to support herself, even after reaching majority.

After marriage, EDIT: the older spouse, usually END EDIT the husband, usually not a minor, is in the same position of power as previously the younger spouse's parents were.

I think that this is something that can be used by very conservative religious groups from several religions, as well as by cults and people from very patriarchal and traditional cultures who are not necessarily very religious.

Some may see it as "protecting the daughter's honor" by having her married.
Some may see it as protecting their children from risking to sin (having sex outside marriage).
Parents of LGBT children may try to "cement" them in the "right" way of living by marrying them off as soon as they "see a problem", which probably more often than not is attributed to "bad influences" and lack of options to "behave correctly" (have sex within marriage).


It should also be punishable to hold "marriage ceremonies" without legal impact for minors.
Else, there will be those who are religiously married but officially single, but who may still be in the same bind but possibly with less options for spousal support than if they had been married.

[Deleted]

I can't imagine any case in which I will think a 14-15 yr old marrying is a good idea.

[Deleted]

When my son was in tenth grade at a small private school, two of his classmates became parents.  It was frequently discussed (lol) by the membership as to what they should do.  In previous generations, the kids got married.  The teen novel (and subsequent movie) Mr. and Mrs. Bo Jo Jones is a classic example.  

Anyway, here was the real dilemma everyone was arguing about.  The school bylaws said you could not be married and attend this particular private school.  It didn't say anything about being pregnant because everyone who ever got pregnant while in high school got married, right?  Not this time.  The girl wanted to stay in school.  No one had any problem with the boy staying.  It was quite the discussion even though it wouldn't be probably as heated today.

My side of the argument was that two fifteen-year-olds had no business getting married.  Shame on anyone who forced them to make a second mistake.  Romeo and Juliet did not live happily ever after.

I honestly don't see any reason why fifteen-year-olds should get married.  

[billisonboard]

Jun 11, 2017 7:45:40 GMT -5 lund said:

I dislike child marriage.

The parents are in a very strong position of power and can coerce, manipulate, and/or threaten their offspring into marriage.
The minor is too young to be self-supporting, and has few options to get away from an unwanted marriage. (S/he may not even have a bank account or an ID card...)

Early marriage often means that at least one partner, usually the woman, will be and remain insufficiently educated (not finishing HS), and thus may know very little about her rights and have little ability to support herself, even after reaching majority.

After marriage, EDIT: the older spouse, usually END EDIT the husband, usually not a minor, is in the same position of power as previously the younger spouse's parents were.

I think that this is something that can be used by very conservative religious groups from several religions, as well as by cults and people from very patriarchal and traditional cultures who are not necessarily very religious.

Some may see it as "protecting the daughter's honor" by having her married.
Some may see it as protecting their children from risking to sin (having sex outside marriage).
Parents of LGBT children may try to "cement" them in the "right" way of living by marrying them off as soon as they "see a problem", which probably more often than not is attributed to "bad influences" and lack of options to "behave correctly" (have sex within marriage).


It should also be punishable to hold "marriage ceremonies" without legal impact for minors.
Else, there will be those who are religiously married but officially single, but who may still be in the same bind but possibly with less options for spousal support than if they had been married.

I don't see a blanket ban on marriage by people under the age of 18 as the cure for horrific parenting.

[OldCoyote]

Marriage at what age?

A better question would be sex at what age?

How are you going to regulate that?

Pass a law,,, that will stop it!

[Deleted]

Jun 11, 2017 8:15:48 GMT -5 billisonboard said:

Jun 11, 2017 7:45:40 GMT -5 lund said:

I dislike child marriage.

The parents are in a very strong position of power and can coerce, manipulate, and/or threaten their offspring into marriage.
The minor is too young to be self-supporting, and has few options to get away from an unwanted marriage. (S/he may not even have a bank account or an ID card...)

Early marriage often means that at least one partner, usually the woman, will be and remain insufficiently educated (not finishing HS), and thus may know very little about her rights and have little ability to support herself, even after reaching majority.

After marriage, EDIT: the older spouse, usually END EDIT the husband, usually not a minor, is in the same position of power as previously the younger spouse's parents were.

I think that this is something that can be used by very conservative religious groups from several religions, as well as by cults and people from very patriarchal and traditional cultures who are not necessarily very religious.

Some may see it as "protecting the daughter's honor" by having her married.
Some may see it as protecting their children from risking to sin (having sex outside marriage).
Parents of LGBT children may try to "cement" them in the "right" way of living by marrying them off as soon as they "see a problem", which probably more often than not is attributed to "bad influences" and lack of options to "behave correctly" (have sex within marriage).


It should also be punishable to hold "marriage ceremonies" without legal impact for minors.
Else, there will be those who are religiously married but officially single, but who may still be in the same bind but possibly with less options for spousal support than if they had been married.

I don't see a blanket ban on marriage by people under the age of 18 as the cure for horrific parenting.

It's a blanket under 17. 17 yr olds can the way 14-15 yr olds used to, with a judge.

[Deleted]

Jun 11, 2017 8:30:20 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Marriage at what age?

A better question would be sex at what age?

How are you going to regulate that?

Pass a law,,, that will stop it!

They do regulate that. 

[OldCoyote]

Jun 11, 2017 8:45:20 GMT -5 oped said:

Jun 11, 2017 8:30:20 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Marriage at what age?

A better question would be sex at what age?

How are you going to regulate that?

Pass a law,,, that will stop it!

They do regulate that. 

Did that stop them from having sex? 

[lund]

It may make it less frequent to have it with people who are double their own age....

[Deleted]

Jun 11, 2017 7:46:15 GMT -5 oped said:

I can't imagine any case in which I will think a 14-15 yr old marrying is a good idea.

Wait. In Deep Impact they were only letting limited selections and lottery winners into the end of the world underground ark... the neighbor allowed their 15 yr old to marry her boyfriend so she could go to the ark and survive the end of the world...  In that ONE instance, I might approve. 

Im guessing that was no ones reason in New York. 

[Deleted]

Jun 11, 2017 8:54:06 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Jun 11, 2017 8:45:20 GMT -5 oped said:

They do regulate that. 

Did that stop them from having sex? 

As a mom of an 18 year old who held multiple sessions on, just because the age of consent in PA is 16... and they have Romeo and Juliet guidelines, in Cali it's 18... no exceptions, including oral, etc... before he headed out there on his own... I certainly hope so. 

[Tennesseer]

Jun 11, 2017 8:54:06 GMT -5 OldCoyote said:

Jun 11, 2017 8:45:20 GMT -5 oped said:

They do regulate that. 

Did that stop them from having sex? 

So should we not have laws about murder too? After all, people still murder.

[Pants]

Read a great article on this a while back. Tons of cases of parents marrying off their 12-15 year olds to men in their 30s, 40s, 50s. Judges, who should be the backstop to prevent this abuse, rarely refuse. It's fucking awful.