swasat
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Post by swasat on May 8, 2017 11:35:07 GMT -5
The inordinate stress of not being able to pay for essential needs, including health care in this country, can drive someone beyond the pale. Too easy to fault someone, including ourselves, for failures to meet impossible demands. You can't do what you can't do. And yet some dickhead politician in our country says "Nobody died because they did not have health insurance". A$$holes of the first degree
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on May 8, 2017 11:40:28 GMT -5
The inordinate stress of not being able to pay for essential needs, including health care in this country, can drive someone beyond the pale. Too easy to fault someone, including ourselves, for failures to meet impossible demands. You can't do what you can't do. And yet some dickhead politician in our country says "Nobody died because they did not have health insurance". A$$holes of the first degree From a 2009 Harvard Gazette article: New study finds 45,000 deaths annually linked to lack of health coverage
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 8, 2017 11:43:21 GMT -5
The inordinate stress of not being able to pay for essential needs, including health care in this country, can drive someone beyond the pale. Too easy to fault someone, including ourselves, for failures to meet impossible demands. You can't do what you can't do. And yet some dickhead politician in our country says "Nobody died because they did not have health insurance". A$$holes of the first degree It's not just politicians that view things that way. Thyme had a point when she said we do a disservice to people by making bankruptcy into a moral failing/character flaw. Same with not being able to afford millions of dollars in medical bills. Same with considering someone a failure if they can't work 2-4 jobs while getting cancer treatment/helping a spouse thru cancer treatment. I can totally understand someone going off the deep end and killing themselves. You can only hear so many times how much you suck as a human being from various sources before you start to believe they are right and people would be better off without you. Open up the table to discussion of anything other that self reliance/personal responsibility means that we'd have to accept that we are not 100% in control of the universe and that there are times when we need to consider society as a whole rather than the individual. That makes you a dirty pinko commie in this country.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on May 8, 2017 13:46:32 GMT -5
Now, we have to go political on this thread? Oh ok. But, having watched 13 Reasons Why, there should be 13 Reasons Why Not. Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on May 8, 2017 14:53:41 GMT -5
I won't do it but would someone else please give shooby a hug. Or send her to a safe place.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 8, 2017 15:14:12 GMT -5
My grandfather's chemotherapy alone was $3k per dose. They fortunately got it for free because my grandfather was part of a clinical trial.
That's $3k a dose just for the chemotherapy that is not counting the surgeries, the MRIs, the lab testing, the hospital stays, the radiation etc.
If it were me we'd need to add in my lost income. While both sets of parents would help there is just no way logically DH could be expected to take on 3-4 jobs to pay all our bills if I became sick.
It's not a little bit of debt we're talking about that can be solved with a couple years of belt tightening and a part time job. If cancer were to happen to me and they put life time caps/pre-existing conditions back in life we are SCREWED. We don't have a ton of assets we can sell off to make up for what insurance would not cover. Maybe someday we would get it paid off but at the expense of everything we worked for. The odds of us making up the difference in time before we'd be facing old age is pretty much nada.
I can't imagine trying to deal with an ill spouse and the possibility of losing him AND on top of that losing everything else. Then you read/hear over and over again that you could have prevented all this by planning your life better and that since you didn't it's a deep personal failure on your part. That if you were aq "good" person or a "tougher" person none of this would have happened. I can see getting to the point where you would feel that ending it and providing your family with the insurance money would at least ensure that they can move on. That with you and all your personal failures dragging them down they have no chance/hope.
The human mind/soul can only take so much. There but for the grace of God go I that I haven't had to find out what it would take to finally make me snap.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on May 8, 2017 19:22:30 GMT -5
This thread got me back to looking at short term disability insurance. My employer doesn't offer it and I am not sure if DH's current employer does. Now that we have a mortgage and with all the crap going on with health care I need to get on it. Also considering Alfac critical illness and cancer insurance but I have to look into that more deeply. Starting to think I can't have enough insurance. DH and I are not in professions where we can pay all our regular bills AND save up enough that we could afford to self insure. Pretty sure the mortgage company and hospitals are not going to give a crap how much "grit" we have unless we can somehow turn into something with monetary value. Almost nobody has the income to save to self-insure. A third of people will get cancer, and that could be a million bucks - easy.
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Post by empress of self-improvement on May 8, 2017 20:08:49 GMT -5
I'm not sure what there is but I am going to be taking DH to an MS clinic nearer to us than Boston soon and plan to ask about a social worker. I'm more inclined to see one if it's closer to me than driving into Boston during construction season. Thank you.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on May 8, 2017 20:16:45 GMT -5
I'm not sure what there is but I am going to be taking DH to an MS clinic nearer to us than Boston soon and plan to ask about a social worker. I'm more inclined to see one if it's closer to me than driving into Boston during construction season. Thank you. Best wishes.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on May 8, 2017 20:31:33 GMT -5
hugs, empress. I'm not exactly local, but if there's anything I can do to help out, lmk.
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Post by empress of self-improvement on May 8, 2017 20:36:00 GMT -5
My grandfather's chemotherapy alone was $3k per dose. They fortunately got it for free because my grandfather was part of a clinical trial. That's $3k a dose just for the chemotherapy that is not counting the surgeries, the MRIs, the lab testing, the hospital stays, the radiation etc. If it were me we'd need to add in my lost income. While both sets of parents would help there is just no way logically DH could be expected to take on 3-4 jobs to pay all our bills if I became sick. It's not a little bit of debt we're talking about that can be solved with a couple years of belt tightening and a part time job. If cancer were to happen to me and they put life time caps/pre-existing conditions back in life we are SCREWED. We don't have a ton of assets we can sell off to make up for what insurance would not cover. Maybe someday we would get it paid off but at the expense of everything we worked for. The odds of us making up the difference in time before we'd be facing old age is pretty much nada. I can't imagine trying to deal with an ill spouse and the possibility of losing him AND on top of that losing everything else. Then you read/hear over and over again that you could have prevented all this by planning your life better and that since you didn't it's a deep personal failure on your part. That if you were aq "good" person or a "tougher" person none of this would have happened. I can see getting to the point where you would feel that ending it and providing your family with the insurance money would at least ensure that they can move on. That with you and all your personal failures dragging them down they have no chance/hope. The human mind/soul can only take so much. There but for the grace of God go I that I haven't had to find out what it would take to finally make me snap. Don't take this the wrong way but I love you. You have managed to put a lot of what I'm feeling into words so much better than I am currently able to. My brain is too pissed to be rational. What I can say is DH's monthly medication that he was taking was $6000. Out of pocket would bankrupt me in 2 months. There but for the grace of God go I that I haven't had to find out what it would take to finally make me snap. I'm getting there. Unfortunately.
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finnime
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Post by finnime on May 9, 2017 8:07:50 GMT -5
empress of self-improvement, i think you are doing all you can; I'm afraid you're doing more than you can do. That feeling of I can't, I must, I can't, I must, I can't, I must, can keep the alarms ringing all the time. The social worker consultation sounds like a great idea. Hoping for the best for you and your DH.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2017 8:18:51 GMT -5
So, along the lines of this. Just found out a family friend had the rug pulled out from under him. Him and his wife were just planning on starting their family and buying a new house when he started getting sick. Turns out he has a rare bone marrow disease and the only treatment is a bone marrow transplant. Until then he has to take a new drug that cost....hold on to your seats....450K/year!!! This is also going to make him infertile and unable to work for at least the next year. They are seeing a fertility specialist now to do something before he starts treatment, so they can still have a family sometime in the future.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on May 9, 2017 8:29:58 GMT -5
well with faith, grit, and determination, he and his wife should be able to afford all the treatments and not go bankrupt. Much along the lines of the luck vs. hard work discussion, I believe people say these things because it gives them a feeling of control over things they have no control over. Best of luck and good jujus to all who are dealing with overwhelming medical issues and bills/debt.
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WholeLottaNothin
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Post by WholeLottaNothin on May 9, 2017 14:23:12 GMT -5
My grandfather's chemotherapy alone was $3k per dose. They fortunately got it for free because my grandfather was part of a clinical trial.
That's $3k a dose just for the chemotherapy that is not counting the surgeries, the MRIs, the lab testing, the hospital stays, the radiation etc.
I have had cancer twice, once when I was 19 and again when I was 23. The first time, each chemo round was over $4000. I had twelve of them. In between rounds of chemo, I had to give myself a shot once a day for ten days. Each set of shots cost $1200. That doesn't include surgeries, scans, etc.
When the cancer returned, the chemo was more aggressive and for longer amounts of time, requiring a hospital stay each time. A newer version of those shots had come out in the time between cancer bouts, so I could get by with one shot instead of 10, but that one shot was $3000 a pop. The stem cell transplant itself totaled more than $100K (and this was over 10 years ago now). Then there was the surgeries, scans, radiation after the stem cell transplant, and numerous follow up appointments. I can totally see how this would feel (and be) totally insurmountable.
Best of luck to your friend, MPL.
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on May 10, 2017 15:18:49 GMT -5
My grandfather's chemotherapy alone was $3k per dose. They fortunately got it for free because my grandfather was part of a clinical trial.
That's $3k a dose just for the chemotherapy that is not counting the surgeries, the MRIs, the lab testing, the hospital stays, the radiation etc.
I have had cancer twice, once when I was 19 and again when I was 23. The first time, each chemo round was over $4000. I had twelve of them. In between rounds of chemo, I had to give myself a shot once a day for ten days. Each set of shots cost $1200. That doesn't include surgeries, scans, etc.
When the cancer returned, the chemo was more aggressive and for longer amounts of time, requiring a hospital stay each time. A newer version of those shots had come out in the time between cancer bouts, so I could get by with one shot instead of 10, but that one shot was $3000 a pop. The stem cell transplant itself totaled more than $100K (and this was over 10 years ago now). Then there was the surgeries, scans, radiation after the stem cell transplant, and numerous follow up appointments. I can totally see how this would feel (and be) totally insurmountable.
Best of luck to your friend, MPL.
(((Hugs))) and congratulations for beating this evil disease twice. May you be cancer free from here on out and live a happy and healthy life! Good thoughts and prayers for you all that are worried, suffering, or sick. Just please don't lose hope!
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on May 10, 2017 20:39:21 GMT -5
Not to speak ill of the dead, but if you're a husband and father to kids, you don't take your own life. Suicide is an inherantly selfish decision and you do your family and especially the kids a great disservice by taking the easy way out.
I've never been in that situation, where you have a family you can't provide for. It must be heartbreaking and soul crushing. But killing yourself doesn't help anyone in that situation.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on May 11, 2017 5:51:27 GMT -5
And, there's the fallout to the survivors. Who feel that shame and guilt that somehow it's their fault. Even though you cannot stop someone intent on doing that, it is something that you are now stuck living with. And, when it is someone you love, people seem to forget about what was good about that person and seem to enjoy the salicious details of their death.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on May 11, 2017 8:07:49 GMT -5
Now, we have to go political on this thread? Oh ok. But, having watched 13 Reasons Why, there should be 13 Reasons Why Not. Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. when your wife is terminally ill, you are drowning in debt, you can't support your family financially or emotionally, it doesn't seem temporary.
Seriously, statements like "this is a permanent solution to a temporary problem" are glib and unhelpful to those who are severely depressed.
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on May 11, 2017 8:16:12 GMT -5
Not to speak ill of the dead, but if you're a husband and father to kids, you don't take your own life. Suicide is an inherantly selfish decision and you do your family and especially the kids a great disservice by taking the easy way out.
I've never been in that situation, where you have a family you can't provide for. It must be heartbreaking and soul crushing. But killing yourself doesn't help anyone in that situation. But the person killing themselves doesn't see it as selfish. They think it's selfless. The honestly believe the survivors will be better off without them.
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chiver78
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Post by chiver78 on May 11, 2017 13:50:57 GMT -5
Now, we have to go political on this thread? Oh ok. But, having watched 13 Reasons Why, there should be 13 Reasons Why Not. Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. when your wife is terminally ill, you are drowning in debt, you can't support your family financially or emotionally, it doesn't seem temporary.
Seriously, statements like "this is a permanent solution to a temporary problem" are glib and unhelpful to those who are severely depressed.
consider the source.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on May 11, 2017 14:18:06 GMT -5
Not to speak ill of the dead, but if you're a husband and father to kids, you don't take your own life. Suicide is an inherantly selfish decision and you do your family and especially the kids a great disservice by taking the easy way out.
I've never been in that situation, where you have a family you can't provide for. It must be heartbreaking and soul crushing. But killing yourself doesn't help anyone in that situation. But the person committing suicide doesn't feel that way. You have a terminally ill spouse and have lost everything. Sorry but working 2-3 jobs isn't going to cut it. Hardly any of us are in a position where having a terminally ill spouse wouldn't totally bankrupt us. Most of us are also old enough that we're likely to not be able to recover in time before we hit old age which comes with it's own costs. He probably truly felt that his family would be better off with his life insurance rather than having him around constantly dragging them under. Which goes back to Thyme's point that I agree with, we need to stop demonizing people like the guy in the OP over finances and flippantly telling them if they'd just work 2-3 jobs their "temporary" problem would be fixed. It's a lot more complicated than that. Fortunately I've never been at a point where I considered my family would be better off with me dead but I certainly understand how you can get there. I balanced on that fine line while I was unemployed. We got by but it was hard constantly hearing what a "bad" person I was from the way people in the UE office talked to me, to the people at the medicaid office when I applied for the kids, to just every day people who spout off about all those "unemployed losers" sitting on their asses collecting benefits rather than working a McJob. I got laid off because there was literally no money left to keep me employed, but that's not acceptable in this country. I should have picked a different job, I should have picked a different career, I should not have had kids, I should have gotten a different degree. .. you get the idea. You can only absorb so much negativity and hate before it starts to re-wire your brain and you believe what people are saying.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on May 11, 2017 16:59:59 GMT -5
As someone whose son was devastated by his grandmother's suicide, it has huge and long term effects on survivors.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2017 17:34:32 GMT -5
Well, i have a first-hand perspective on suicide. I was five when my father died. His brother had gotten him involved in some scheme involving 500k worth of bearer bonds. This was 1959. My father was going to jail . . . maybe for a long time. He had a 5 year-old and a 9-year-old. My mother was on furlough from the state mental hospital.
So how do you support those two kids exactly? He chose suicide, maybe because he didn't want to go to jail or maybe for my sister and me. Who knows.
What I do know is that a trust fund was set up with some of the insurance proceeds that allowed my sister and me to go to college. We lived with an aunt (his sister) for most of our childhood. We got SS and VA payments until we graduated from college.
I wonder what would have happened to us if he had lived and gone to jail?
I won't call it a heroic action because I don't really know his motives. But I know my sister and I would have been much worse off.
But the guy in my original post wasn't going to jail. I've learned a bit more since then. He was injured when a load of bricks fell on his foot, crushing it. Coincidentally, Alabama is examining its Workman's Compensation system. Currently, the maximum is $220 a week. That's not even $1000 a month.
A poignant update on his original GoFundMe page was about the generosity of his friends in donating food. They had been trying to scrape up a dollar to buy 2 cans of veggies to feed 4 people. He splurged one night and cooked a "feast" with the donated food He said they couldn't do it again, but for one night it was rather glorious. His only negative was that his wife threw it up (must be chemo).
I know there are holes, etc. in this story , but it makes me cry to just type it.
At least the funeral was relatively cheap. He was a veteran so buried at the local national cemetery after cremation.
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countrygirl2
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Post by countrygirl2 on May 11, 2017 18:22:49 GMT -5
MPL if I were those folks facing $450k for treatment a year I would not be having a child. Adding the stress of that him not working, etc, that is really creating a problem. No way.
If my husband got something that would bankrupt us I know what he would do, he would not seek treatment. He has already said so, how sad is that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2017 19:19:12 GMT -5
MPL if I were those folks facing $450k for treatment a year I would not be having a child. Adding the stress of that him not working, etc, that is really creating a problem. No way.
If my husband got something that would bankrupt us I know what he would do, he would not seek treatment. He has already said so, how sad is that. They're not looking to have a child now, only to either store sperm or embryos until later since the treatment will make him infertile. A bone marrow transplant has a good chance of "curing" him (I put that in quotes because I'm sure thats not the correct term...maybe more like remission?) but, until they find a donor match the meds it is. Apparently it has the honor of most expensive drug out there.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on May 11, 2017 19:51:31 GMT -5
Not to speak ill of the dead, but if you're a husband and father to kids, you don't take your own life. Suicide is an inherantly selfish decision and you do your family and especially the kids a great disservice by taking the easy way out.
I've never been in that situation, where you have a family you can't provide for. It must be heartbreaking and soul crushing. But killing yourself doesn't help anyone in that situation. But the person committing suicide doesn't feel that way. You have a terminally ill spouse and have lost everything. Sorry but working 2-3 jobs isn't going to cut it. Hardly any of us are in a position where having a terminally ill spouse wouldn't totally bankrupt us. Most of us are also old enough that we're likely to not be able to recover in time before we hit old age which comes with it's own costs. He probably truly felt that his family would be better off with his life insurance rather than having him around constantly dragging them under. Which goes back to Thyme's point that I agree with, we need to stop demonizing people like the guy in the OP over finances and flippantly telling them if they'd just work 2-3 jobs their "temporary" problem would be fixed. It's a lot more complicated than that. Fortunately I've never been at a point where I considered my family would be better off with me dead but I certainly understand how you can get there. I balanced on that fine line while I was unemployed. We got by but it was hard constantly hearing what a "bad" person I was from the way people in the UE office talked to me, to the people at the medicaid office when I applied for the kids, to just every day people who spout off about all those "unemployed losers" sitting on their asses collecting benefits rather than working a McJob. I got laid off because there was literally no money left to keep me employed, but that's not acceptable in this country. I should have picked a different job, I should have picked a different career, I should not have had kids, I should have gotten a different degree. .. you get the idea. You can only absorb so much negativity and hate before it starts to re-wire your brain and you believe what people are saying. Are you suggesting suicide is the right decision? I get depression reprograms your brain and what's logical to a normal brain is not logical to a depressed one. And solving depression isn't as simple as just "snapping out of it." I've been unemployed too and have had to deal with the humiliation of unemployment and well meaning levtures. I've even had depression and suicidal thoughts. But that doesn't change the fact that suicide isn't the answer.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on May 11, 2017 19:55:25 GMT -5
Not to speak ill of the dead, but if you're a husband and father to kids, you don't take your own life. Suicide is an inherantly selfish decision and you do your family and especially the kids a great disservice by taking the easy way out.
I've never been in that situation, where you have a family you can't provide for. It must be heartbreaking and soul crushing. But killing yourself doesn't help anyone in that situation. But the person committing suicide doesn't feel that way. You have a terminally ill spouse and have lost everything. Sorry but working 2-3 jobs isn't going to cut it. Hardly any of us are in a position where having a terminally ill spouse wouldn't totally bankrupt us. Most of us are also old enough that we're likely to not be able to recover in time before we hit old age which comes with it's own costs. He probably truly felt that his family would be better off with his life insurance rather than having him around constantly dragging them under. Which goes back to Thyme's point that I agree with, we need to stop demonizing people like the guy in the OP over finances and flippantly telling them if they'd just work 2-3 jobs their "temporary" problem would be fixed. It's a lot more complicated than that. Fortunately I've never been at a point where I considered my family would be better off with me dead but I certainly understand how you can get there. I balanced on that fine line while I was unemployed. We got by but it was hard constantly hearing what a "bad" person I was from the way people in the UE office talked to me, to the people at the medicaid office when I applied for the kids, to just every day people who spout off about all those "unemployed losers" sitting on their asses collecting benefits rather than working a McJob. I got laid off because there was literally no money left to keep me employed, but that's not acceptable in this country. I should have picked a different job, I should have picked a different career, I should not have had kids, I should have gotten a different degree. .. you get the idea. You can only absorb so much negativity and hate before it starts to re-wire your brain and you believe what people are saying. I think forentally healthy people it boils down to personality. I had many of people in my teen years tell me I was going to be a loser. Odds were stacked against me. But instead of believing them I used it as fuel to motivate me to prove those assholes wrong. I've never been poor in my adult life but I'm sure my personality hasn't changed. Someone looks down on me it just motivates me to succeed so I can rub my success in their face
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on May 11, 2017 20:10:31 GMT -5
I won't do it but would someone else please give shooby a hug. Or send her to a safe place. Can I hug you instead? Hugging by proxy could be fun
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on May 11, 2017 20:15:58 GMT -5
I won't do it but would someone else please give shooby a hug. Or send her to a safe place. Can I hug you instead? Hugging by proxy could be fun I'll take it.
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