weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Mar 30, 2017 18:05:55 GMT -5
You have a problem with old people getting medical care? How about the disabled having enough to eat? Pensioners having a roof over their heads? rural electric. child labor laws. the list is endless. I guess it's every man for himself and screw everyone else. |
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 30, 2017 18:07:36 GMT -5
You use extreme examples of course
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 30, 2017 18:09:05 GMT -5
You use extreme examples of course yes. but we also use logic.  |
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Mar 30, 2017 18:16:05 GMT -5
One can easily hate the breadth and depth of the various safety nets (which in some cases are more akin to safety limousines) without hating the fundamental concept.
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 30, 2017 18:21:07 GMT -5
One can easily hate the breadth and depth of the various safety nets (which in some cases are more akin to safety limousines) without hating the fundamental concept. yes. and one can easily hide their hatred in an accounting ledger. |
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Mar 30, 2017 18:31:42 GMT -5
One can easily hate the breadth and depth of the various safety nets (which in some cases are more akin to safety limousines) without hating the fundamental concept. yes. and one can easily hide their hatred in an accounting ledger. This appears to me to be you none-too-subtly accusing Zib of hating the poor and disabled. But given how often I misinterpret your posts, it bears asking: Was this indeed the intended meaning? |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 30, 2017 18:38:09 GMT -5
yes. and one can easily hide their hatred in an accounting ledger. This appears to me to be you none-too-subtly accusing Zib of hating the poor and disabled. But given how often I misinterpret your posts, it bears asking: Was this indeed the intended meaning? nope. i know that zib supports limited welfare. this salvo is for the assholes that don't support any. edit: i can address posters if i wish to do so, Virgil. so can you. |
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Mar 30, 2017 18:46:17 GMT -5
This appears to me to be you none-too-subtly accusing Zib of hating the poor and disabled. But given how often I misinterpret your posts, it bears asking: Was this indeed the intended meaning? nope. i know that zib supports limited welfare. this salvo is for the assholes that don't support any. edit: i can address posters if i wish to do so, Virgil. so can you. I'd prefer a welfare system entirely based on private donation/action to the unsustainable, doomed-to-failure mess we've built up over the past century, hence count me among the assholes. |
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 30, 2017 18:53:19 GMT -5
This appears to me to be you none-too-subtly accusing Zib of hating the poor and disabled. But given how often I misinterpret your posts, it bears asking: Was this indeed the intended meaning? nope. i know that zib supports limited welfare. this salvo is for the assholes that don't support any. edit: i can address posters if i wish to do so, Virgil. so can you. You are correct. I have no issues with helping people temporarily for say a period of two years while they get a degree or certification to support themselves and their offspring if any. I also don't have an issue with the disabled or elderly. I do have an issue with able bodied people not supporting themselves. |
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countrygirl2
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Post by countrygirl2 on Mar 30, 2017 19:38:44 GMT -5
Many of them used to till the jobs left. There may be jobs available with education but what if they aren't smart enough to get it or do it? I see lots of them around, what are they supposed to do?
Here in this rural area no car, no job. Walking 12 miles to town isn't really an option.
In the city maybe they can, but then how do they afford housing. I would like to see people working too, and maybe some of them would like to be working. Sure there are lazy people, always will be, but some that can't work for one reason or another.
Tell me what the gal can do that lives up town near me in a , just had a set of twins and had a young child, husband back in jail again. He has some kind of issue from birth, why she married him I don't know. He is on so many meds he can't afford to get off Medicaid, works under the table some. I think he finally just gave up. Now we will have to support them. Oh and with no planned parenthood, no abortion, no prenatal care, no infant care, no wellness visits, we will be breeding and keeping more and more sick babies from this group. That should really help. Biased against this president, I would love to tell you what I really think of he and the republicans in congress in general. They think by creating more people in this category they will work harder? Seems that must be the answer. I will stop now, makes me so angry I could spit.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Mar 30, 2017 19:44:04 GMT -5
I think most of us have an issue with able-bodied and mentally capable people milking the welfare system. It is done. It's certainly not the majority of recipients who are doing it, but there are definitely some malingerers out there taking advantage. That's the issue that needs to be addressed, IMO. Taking the whole system down is equivalent to throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
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Rob Base 2.0
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Post by Rob Base 2.0 on Mar 30, 2017 19:44:23 GMT -5
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Mar 30, 2017 19:47:12 GMT -5
No. You're thinking of an add hominy attack. Proportions then come into play.  |
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 30, 2017 19:57:42 GMT -5
Many of them used to till the jobs left. There may be jobs available with education but what if they aren't smart enough to get it or do it? I see lots of them around, what are they supposed to do?
Here in this rural area no car, no job. Walking 12 miles to town isn't really an option.
In the city maybe they can, but then how do they afford housing. I would like to see people working too, and maybe some of them would like to be working. Sure there are lazy people, always will be, but some that can't work for one reason or another.
Tell me what the gal can do that lives up town near me in a , just had a set of twins and had a young child, husband back in jail again. He has some kind of issue from birth, why she married him I don't know. He is on so many meds he can't afford to get off Medicaid, works under the table some. I think he finally just gave up. Now we will have to support them. Oh and with no planned parenthood, no abortion, no prenatal care, no infant care, no wellness visits, we will be breeding and keeping more and more sick babies from this group. That should really help. Biased against this president, I would love to tell you what I really think of he and the republicans in congress in general. They think by creating more people in this category they will work harder? Seems that must be the answer. I will stop now, makes me so angry I could spit.
Of course she's not responsible for having children she couldn't support is she? She's not responsible for marrying someone mentally ill either? She was forced to do both those things. What a terrible world that forced her to do these things. |
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countrygirl2
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Post by countrygirl2 on Mar 30, 2017 21:37:40 GMT -5
So you just ignore the kids she produced? Of course she should not have them, I doubt she had a way to get birth control, they haven't had a car in forever and are estranged from her family. I honestly wonder how she ate. No one in our small town knows anything about the twins, saw one picture and I'm not so sure they are ok. So now what? More mouths for someone to feed.
Of course people should be responsible but we are making it harder and harder for them to be at all. So producing more and more like this is going to help? By depriving them of more, healthcare, food, or anything is going to make it better for these kids? Then if they die from neglect, oh well put her in jail, that will help also. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2017 21:43:13 GMT -5
No. You're thinking of an add hominy attack. Proportions then come into play. I thought that was when you were throwing grits at the person... you know... to add hominy to them.  |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 30, 2017 23:02:25 GMT -5
if it came after the ad-hominem, i might have missed it.  for the record, i was referring to that SPECIFIC POLL, and i already surveyed how many places reported it. so, your statement was false, in terms of this SPECIFIC piece, as far as i can tell. but i am happy to hear that it is generally being reported. though i wouldn't know. i have been traveling. which is about as far as i could get from being under a rock, i would imagine.
Sorry, I didn't know a sarcastic "living under a rock" was such a terrible ad hominem attack
i didn't say terrible. living under a rock is the very essence of an ad hominem attack however, in the argumentative sense. an ad hominem attack seeks to undermine the authority of a poster by asserting something personal about them that would impact their authority to argue. saying that i am living under a rock is a way of saying that i have no authority from which to argue because i am woefully uninformed, is it not? just to let you know, i don't take ad hominem argumentative personally. in fact, i rejoice in it, because it generally means i have won the argument. if someone chooses to attack me rather than my logic, then it follows that my logic is concrete and impenetrable. much like your sarcasm. PS- two of your citations are the same, and one is one i mentioned. but thanks for the effort. |
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 31, 2017 5:21:09 GMT -5
So you just ignore the kids she produced? Of course she should not have them, I doubt she had a way to get birth control, they haven't had a car in forever and are estranged from her family. I honestly wonder how she ate. No one in our small town knows anything about the twins, saw one picture and I'm not so sure they are ok. So now what? More mouths for someone to feed.
Of course people should be responsible but we are making it harder and harder for them to be at all. So producing more and more like this is going to help? By depriving them of more, healthcare, food, or anything is going to make it better for these kids? Then if they die from neglect, oh well put her in jail, that will help also. Nope. She already had a child and then proceeded to have more. She's proven she's unfit and stupid. Removing those children and giving them a chance to grow up away from her influence is the best thing for them. Perhaps she'd get off her ass and get a job then. Making babies to get benefits is not a career. Those "jobs" you speak of have been gone from these areas for decades now. Time to move to where there are jobs. No one wants to live in Dakota, I get that, but if it was Dakota or starve, you'd move. |
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Rob Base 2.0
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Post by Rob Base 2.0 on Mar 31, 2017 7:11:57 GMT -5
Sorry, I didn't know a sarcastic "living under a rock" was such a terrible ad hominem attack
i didn't say terrible. living under a rock is the very essence of an ad hominem attack however, in the argumentative sense. an ad hominem attack seeks to undermine the authority of a poster by asserting something personal about them that would impact their authority to argue. saying that i am living under a rock is a way of saying that i have no authority from which to argue because i am woefully uninformed, is it not? just to let you know, i don't take ad hominem argumentative personally. in fact, i rejoice in it, because it generally means i have won the argument. if someone chooses to attack me rather than my logic, then it follows that my logic is concrete and impenetrable. much like your sarcasm. PS- two of your citations are the same, and one is one i mentioned. but thanks for the effort. I changed he one poll to the CNN poll. It was a mistake and easy to find many o article on the poll numbers (I got tired of copying ) Glad u won the argument :-) |
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Mar 31, 2017 7:15:09 GMT -5
When I brought up this issue under the Obama administration I was told by those on this message board that the secret service and local police protect the president and his family wherever they go, so don't worry about it.
So there you go.
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Mar 31, 2017 7:19:09 GMT -5
As for bias: I have noticed that many news articles about Trump use unflattering photographs of him. No, he really looks like that. Can you imagine the blow back and moral outrage if these comments were directed at a female politician? But I guess it's ok because Trump is a white male and republican. The double standard is alive and well. |
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Mar 31, 2017 9:37:58 GMT -5
Of course people should be responsible but we are making it harder and harder for them to be at all. So producing more and more like this is going to help? By depriving them of more, healthcare, food, or anything is going to make it better for these kids? Then if they die from neglect, oh well put her in jail, that will help also. Seeing her suffering and that of her family will influence the decisions of others. It's not a sure thing, but if the suffering is profound enough that it scares or disturbs people, they will go to considerable lengths to avoid winding up in similar circumstances. If the suffering is tolerable--if it's merely the difference between a comfortable lifestyle and an uncomfortable one--the fear and discomfort aren't there. The difference has no power as an incentive. This isn't to say people necessarily have to be starving to become a byword. If they're forced into begging for charity from neighbours, churches, the community, etc., that kind of humiliation will also scare anyone who witnesses it. It's a fact of human nature: we can drift for a long time, tolerate immense discomfort, adapt to accept an extremely menial state of existence. It's only when we behold true suffering and humiliation--enough to scare us--that we change course. Hence any welfare system that hopes to dissuade people as well as care for them must admit a considerable bit of suffering. There's also a lot to be said for the prevention side of things: educating people on wise and unwise choices, drilling certain attitudes about risks into them, properly preparing them for lifelong work, etc., but such is a separate discussion. |
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Mar 31, 2017 9:57:21 GMT -5
When I brought up this issue under the Obama administration I was told by those on this message board that the secret service and local police protect the president and his family wherever they go, so don't worry about it. So there you go. I have no problem with the SS protecting any First family. But Obama's family did not live in Chicago and Washington full time at the same time Obama's kids moved to Washington with their parents. The Obama kids moved and started at a new school just like most kids do across the country when a child's parent starts a new job somewhere else in the country. Tax payers are currently paying for SS protection for trump's wife and son in NYC until the end of the school year (two more months away). SS is also protecting trump almost every weekend when he heads to his commercial property in Florida along with protecting him at the White House. The SS is also protecting his adult children while they travel around the world on trump corporation business which makes money for president trump. Can all that be said about Obama and his family? The answer is no. |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 31, 2017 10:43:58 GMT -5
i didn't say terrible. living under a rock is the very essence of an ad hominem attack however, in the argumentative sense. an ad hominem attack seeks to undermine the authority of a poster by asserting something personal about them that would impact their authority to argue. saying that i am living under a rock is a way of saying that i have no authority from which to argue because i am woefully uninformed, is it not? just to let you know, i don't take ad hominem argumentative personally. in fact, i rejoice in it, because it generally means i have won the argument. if someone chooses to attack me rather than my logic, then it follows that my logic is concrete and impenetrable. much like your sarcasm. PS- two of your citations are the same, and one is one i mentioned. but thanks for the effort. I changed he one poll to the CNN poll. It was a mistake and easy to find many o article on the poll numbers (I got tired of copying ) Glad u won the argument :-) i wasn't arguing. i was just pointing out what i posted. well, until the rock comment, anyway.  |
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Mar 31, 2017 10:47:50 GMT -5
No, he really looks like that. Can you imagine the blow back and moral outrage if these comments were directed at a female politician? But I guess it's ok because Trump is a white male and republican. The double standard is alive and well. of course. but women are constantly judged for their looks. it doesn't matter if the president is as bloated as a dead body at sea for a week. it doesn't matter if he has the complexion of an expired citrus. it doesn't matter if his hair looks like a lifetime supply of shark fin cartalege. he can still do whatever the hell he wants, with credibility and a sense of power. if a woman fails to look like a 23 year old prostitute, however, her social mobility is hamstrung. but don't take my word for it. ask the women on this board. just ask them. don't assume anything. i think you will find that the double standard is NOT being perpetuated by women, and those that defend them. |
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Mar 31, 2017 11:06:51 GMT -5
Women of YMAM:
Do you look like a 23-year-old prostitute?
If not, do you feel your social mobility is hamstrung?
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Mar 31, 2017 11:27:41 GMT -5
Women of YMAM: Do you look like a 23-year-old prostitute? If not, do you feel your social mobility is hamstrung? LOL! At my age? Are you kidding me? I will say, however, I've never kidded myself that my appearance didn't help me a good deal during my working/productive years. It did. There's no question about that. Men's appearance can help them, as well; however, their looks don't have as strong an effect on their success as do those of a woman. There's no question about that, either. At least, there's no question in my mind based on what I witnessed over the years. |
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Mar 31, 2017 11:48:47 GMT -5
No, he really looks like that. Can you imagine the blow back and moral outrage if these comments were directed at a female politician? But I guess it's ok because Trump is a white male and republican. The double standard is alive and well. LMAO!! How is saying he really looks like that (he does) making fun of a "white male and republican". Is it a full moon out? Stop projecting your issues with what others have said onto me. What you perceive my post to have said does not exist. Seek help and keep your issues away from me. Your lack of comprehension along with your projection of your issues onto other's is alive and well. I know we liberals "all look alike" to you but we all are different and I'd appreciate you calling out the one's that have done what you are accusing me of doing and leave me out of it. |
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Mar 31, 2017 12:18:18 GMT -5
Can you imagine the blow back and moral outrage if these comments were directed at a female politician? But I guess it's ok because Trump is a white male and republican. The double standard is alive and well. LMAO!! How is saying he really looks like that (he does) making fun of a "white male and republican". Is it a full moon out? Stop projecting your issues with what others have said onto me. What you perceive my post to have said does not exist. Seek help and keep your issues away from me. Your lack of comprehension along with your projection of your issues onto other's is alive and well. I know we liberals "all look alike" to you but we all are different and I'd appreciate you calling out the one's that have done what you are accusing me of doing and leave me out of it. So what exactly are my "issues?" You seem to be knowledgeable on the subject. |
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Mar 31, 2017 12:19:01 GMT -5
LMAO!! How is saying he really looks like that (he does) making fun of a "white male and republican". Is it a full moon out? Stop projecting your issues with what others have said onto me. What you perceive my post to have said does not exist. Seek help and keep your issues away from me. Your lack of comprehension along with your projection of your issues onto other's is alive and well. I know we liberals "all look alike" to you but we all are different and I'd appreciate you calling out the one's that have done what you are accusing me of doing and leave me out of it. So what exactly are my "issues?" You seem to be knowledgeable on the subject. How much time do you have? |
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