zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 22, 2017 20:00:36 GMT -5
Thanks, Swamp. Always good to have help.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Mar 22, 2017 20:02:26 GMT -5
You really need to check for liens and get the payoff amount from the morTgage. She may not get money from the sale if the credit cards went to judgement. Youre wasting your time. How do I do that? I don't have her social security number, and she will not willingly share that informafion with me. I really don't know how to coax her into pulling her own credit report and showing it to you. Refusing to help her stage the house or to pay for any of the moving and storage might knock some sense into her. If the house goes into foreclosure, the net proceeds from selling it drop precipitously and she could lose all of her possessions.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Mar 22, 2017 20:06:37 GMT -5
How do I do that? I don't have her social security number, and she will not willingly share that informafion with me. I really don't know how to coax her into pulling her own credit report and showing it to you. Refusing to help her stage the house or to pay for any of the moving and storage might knock some sense into her. If the house goes into foreclosure, the net proceeds from selling it drop precipitously and she could lose all of her possessions. I'm going to follow swamps advice and check to see what she owes and if there are any liens. If that all checks out then all I can do is try and get a storage unit. Even if she does have a lien, I just need to hope that it doesn't eat into her equity too much. But, either way getting her out sooner rather than later is better for me, and for her.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Mar 22, 2017 20:38:17 GMT -5
I think that you should be worried about the defaulted credit cards too. If the legal liability for the owed amount has not been extinguished by bankruptcy, you might have creditors (or the bottom-feeders that they have sold the debt to) moving against her when she sells the house.
In short, you need to know what kind of money you'll be working with after a sale and what kind of timeline you have to work with. You need to know whether you can afford to chuck everything into a fairly large and expensive storage unit or whether you should be jettisoning stuff so that you can hold onto it for long enough for a senior/disabled housing spot to open up.
FWIW, the exemption amounts in bankruptcy are set by the state and vary quite a bit but some of them are large enough that any sale of the house is likely to leave her with something greater than what she would get by going the the foreclosure and eviction route.
Can you tell by now that the paralyzed person that I moved out of their house had to file for BK after the sale? I may be transferring a bit, but I also know that how you play the last few lousy cards that you hold can make quite a difference.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Mar 22, 2017 20:56:40 GMT -5
Holy sh*t. Here I was thinking about how to help an old person and you deal with this, only to find out the "old person" is four years younger than I am. Now I've got nothing... The storage unit for her stuff may be your only option but it doesn't look like she is willing to do anything like that, or move for that matter... Oh crap I missed that, her age that is, I'm with you I don't understand this. My mom is in her early 70's and just thinking about retirement because she doesn't know that she's ready to be not working (no financial issues, just very not into being a homebody retired person). I couldn't imagine making decisions like this for her. My Grandma was 92 when we had 'the talk' about moving her from her house to an apartment. It's sad when my dad and I have conversations about dealing with the stress of aging parents and he's talking about my 89 year old grandmother, and I'm talking about his ex-wife who is 8 years younger than him. However, some of this is part of the manipulation and control she exerts. Acting helpless is what she does. It's one of the many reasons I've tried to disengage with her as much as possible. I'm only getting involved now, because it's in my best interest to do so. I know her, and I know if I don't get involved that I'll pay for it far more later.
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mamasita99
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Post by mamasita99 on Mar 23, 2017 5:04:08 GMT -5
I think that you should be worried about the defaulted credit cards too. If the legal liability for the owed amount has not been extinguished by bankruptcy, you might have creditors (or the bottom-feeders that they have sold the debt to) moving against her when she sells the house. In short, you need to know what kind of money you'll be working with after a sale and what kind of timeline you have to work with. You need to know whether you can afford to chuck everything into a fairly large and expensive storage unit or whether you should be jettisoning stuff so that you can hold onto it for long enough for a senior/disabled housing spot to open up. FWIW, the exemption amounts in bankruptcy are set by the state and vary quite a bit but some of them are large enough that any sale of the house is likely to leave her with something greater than what she would get by going the the foreclosure and eviction route. Can you tell by now that the paralyzed person that I moved out of their house had to file for BK after the sale? I may be transferring a bit, but I also know that how you play the last few lousy cards that you hold can make quite a difference. Haapai brought up some very good points. If I were in this situation I would get her name on a list for senior housing, so that she doesn't end up homeless. I would suggest researching the financial obligations in the meantime, but since she is only 61, and of sound mind, it's not your battle. If your mom doesn't want to divulge information all you can do is offer to help move stuff to storage, and remind her that she will not be moving in with you.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Mar 23, 2017 5:51:51 GMT -5
She can't get a rental due to her poor credit so buying a house outright is the only way. She can afford taxes and utilities on her income. I'd be a bit worried that there might be maintenance on a house she can't afford or that since it's free and clear, she'll remortgage it to buy more stuff or whatever but you can only do so much. Rent the pod and put the stuff in it that clutters the house and good luck. You're going to have to be the one to do it I'm afraid. If she has the money to buy a home outright, then that money could be banked for rent. I think that a home has much more upkeep and costs then most people consider. But, she can do whatever she chooses. Just offering some options.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 23, 2017 6:10:42 GMT -5
Yes, but it seems she is unable to manage her money so her rent money would "disappear."
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Mar 23, 2017 7:08:29 GMT -5
Yes, but it seems she is unable to manage her money so her rent money would "disappear." That's exactly what would happen. She'd have a new car, new furniture, and she'd rent a large luxury home. The equity would be gone in less than five years and I think that is a generous timeline. if she buys another home the equity is tied up. And her credit is poor enough and her income is low enough that I would be surprised if she could get any sort of mortgage. So while she might struggle with other things, at least she'd have a roof over her head.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 23, 2017 7:13:49 GMT -5
You'll still find lenders who will lend to her unfortunately because there's equity in the house. I'm afraid this won't solve the problem long term
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973beachbum
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Post by 973beachbum on Mar 23, 2017 7:15:05 GMT -5
And there are places where rentals are pretty expensive compared to buying a home. Where my DD goes to college is one of them. A one bedroom apartment is about $1000 a month plus utilities. On the other hand down town row home type places can be had for under $40K. I have seen some for less than $20K.
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Mar 23, 2017 7:55:23 GMT -5
My grandma died in 2012. She lived to 91. Her husband died in 1978. She lived in the same 3 bedroom 1 ba house for 60 years all the way until the end...by herself those last 35 years.
Like most people of her generation, she kept every magazine, t.v. guide, jars, containers, etc. Her house wasn't cluttered at all, but my parents knew she had too much stuff. So they cleaned all that stuff out when she was around 80. When she died, there was a lot less to get rid of.
i would do exactly what crone suggested. Pack it all up without labeling and sorting and take it straight to a donation center. Save that $200/month because it doesn't sound like there will be room for all the extra crap in a smaller condo. Lie if you have to. Only keep essential stuff and down the line, replace anything that got tossed if it is missed. Essential stuff should easily fit in the drawers and cabinets in her home without needing to be in a box somewhere. I assume you have your own life and don't have time to be sorting, labeling and selling. And like someone else said, if she gets foreclosed, it all goes on the curb anyway.
good luck, sucks that you have to deal with this.
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Mar 23, 2017 8:18:02 GMT -5
My grandma died in 2012. She lived to 91. Her husband died in 1978. She lived in the same 3 bedroom 1 ba house for 60 years all the way until the end...by herself those last 35 years. Like most people of her generation, she kept every magazine, t.v. guide, jars, containers, etc. Her house wasn't cluttered at all, but my parents knew she had too much stuff. So they cleaned all that stuff out when she was around 80. When she died, there was a lot less to get rid of. i would do exactly what crone suggested. Pack it all up without labeling and sorting and take it straight to a donation center. Save that $200/month because it doesn't sound like there will be room for all the extra crap in a smaller condo. Lie if you have to. Only keep essential stuff and down the line, replace anything that got tossed if it is missed. Essential stuff should easily fit in the drawers and cabinets in her home without needing to be in a box somewhere. I assume you have your own life and don't have time to be sorting, labeling and selling. And like someone else said, if she gets foreclosed, it all goes on the curb anyway. good luck, sucks that you have to deal with this. I still think this is a bad idea. The mother is mentally sound and an adult. What you are suggesting is theft. It is not ok to throw away someone else's stuff. An 80-90 yo being moved into a nursing home or other facility is an entirely different story than a fully functioning 61 yo adult. She can't afford to stay in the house and can't afford storage. Either her daughter steps in and is able to help her keep the stuff she needs or she loses everything. My sister is homeless and lost everything, so I get the severity.
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Mar 23, 2017 8:19:27 GMT -5
Also, she is not fully functioning. She can't even lift a box on her own.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Mar 23, 2017 8:49:59 GMT -5
My grandma died in 2012. She lived to 91. Her husband died in 1978. She lived in the same 3 bedroom 1 ba house for 60 years all the way until the end...by herself those last 35 years. Like most people of her generation, she kept every magazine, t.v. guide, jars, containers, etc. Her house wasn't cluttered at all, but my parents knew she had too much stuff. So they cleaned all that stuff out when she was around 80. When she died, there was a lot less to get rid of. i would do exactly what crone suggested. Pack it all up without labeling and sorting and take it straight to a donation center. Save that $200/month because it doesn't sound like there will be room for all the extra crap in a smaller condo. Lie if you have to. Only keep essential stuff and down the line, replace anything that got tossed if it is missed. Essential stuff should easily fit in the drawers and cabinets in her home without needing to be in a box somewhere. I assume you have your own life and don't have time to be sorting, labeling and selling. And like someone else said, if she gets foreclosed, it all goes on the curb anyway. good luck, sucks that you have to deal with this. I still think this is a bad idea. The mother is mentally sound and an adult. What you are suggesting is theft. It is not ok to throw away someone else's stuff. An 80-90 yo being moved into a nursing home or other facility is an entirely different story than a fully functioning 61 yo adult. I think that is the big issue here. My mother is 61. Not 91. And while she's physically not in great shape and is unable to do heavy lifting etc., she's not mentally infirm. No court in the world would determine she's of diminished mental capacity. And while I think she's batshit crazy I don't think she's mentally diminished. I'm trying to step in now and deal with this situation so that I'm not spending the next 5-10 years dealing with foreclosures, evictions, and lack of money. I may run into those situations anyway, but I'm hoping to delay that as much as possible. So right now, I think (well provided that I don't find out that she's got 17 liens on the house that will leave her destitute), the plan is to rent a POD have it taken to her current house to fill up, and then have it moved to her new place for her to go through. I'll let her know how many months I'm willing to pay for, and put the unit under her name, so it's clear that if she needs or wants more time to go through it she will need to cover that herself. At least then she will have had adequate time to decide what to keep and what to toss, and we can still get her house on the market ASAP.
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gs11rmb
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Post by gs11rmb on Mar 23, 2017 8:54:49 GMT -5
I'm also in the 'rent the storage unit' camp. Your mother may be manipulative but she is not incompetent so you can't just throw away her things without permission.
Good luck to you!
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janee
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Post by janee on Mar 23, 2017 9:16:36 GMT -5
I still think this is a bad idea. The mother is mentally sound and an adult. What you are suggesting is theft. It is not ok to throw away someone else's stuff. An 80-90 yo being moved into a nursing home or other facility is an entirely different story than a fully functioning 61 yo adult. I think that is the big issue here. My mother is 61. Not 91. And while she's physically not in great shape and is unable to do heavy lifting etc., she's not mentally infirm. No court in the world would determine she's of diminished mental capacity. And while I think she's batshit crazy I don't think she's mentally diminished. I'm trying to step in now and deal with this situation so that I'm not spending the next 5-10 years dealing with foreclosures, evictions, and lack of money. I may run into those situations anyway, but I'm hoping to delay that as much as possible. So right now, I think (well provided that I don't find out that she's got 17 liens on the house that will leave her destitute), the plan is to rent a POD have it taken to her current house to fill up, and then have it moved to her new place for her to go through. I'll let her know how many months I'm willing to pay for, and put the unit under her name, so it's clear that if she needs or wants more time to go through it she will need to cover that herself. At least then she will have had adequate time to decide what to keep and what to toss, and we can still get her house on the market ASAP. Good plan! The important thing you are doing is getting the house presentable to sell. It will help Mom if she thinks she doesn't have to make decisions now. Sell the house then the timeline is up to her on how much she moves into the new place.
I'm sorry you're faced with this, but I truly think this is your best option--provided there are no liens. Good luck!
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Mar 23, 2017 11:28:00 GMT -5
I don't think I would go with the POD. Things in a storage unit would be out of sight, out of mind ........ and hopefully a lot forgotten about. But definitely in her name with a time limit for what you are willing to pay for.
At the end of storage unit lease, she either renews or defaults. Choice is hers.
I think the POD would just sit at her new residence 'forever' and never opened. A huge box in the driveway.
Good luck
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 23, 2017 11:34:01 GMT -5
I'd go with a storage unit as well. If she defaults then it will be auctioned, there will be nothing for you to have to deal with.
If she defaults on the POD you are going to have problems when they come to take it back. She may also use it as an excuse to cram her new house with new crap because the old stuff can be put in that handy storage container in the driveway.
A storage unit would have to be driven to. I am assuming you have no intention of driving around moving her junk for her. I think the less visible space she feels she has for stuff the better.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Mar 23, 2017 12:25:32 GMT -5
Oh crap I missed that, her age that is, I'm with you I don't understand this. My mom is in her early 70's and just thinking about retirement because she doesn't know that she's ready to be not working (no financial issues, just very not into being a homebody retired person). I couldn't imagine making decisions like this for her. My Grandma was 92 when we had 'the talk' about moving her from her house to an apartment. It's sad when my dad and I have conversations about dealing with the stress of aging parents and he's talking about my 89 year old grandmother, and I'm talking about his ex-wife who is 8 years younger than him. However, some of this is part of the manipulation and control she exerts. Acting helpless is what she does. It's one of the many reasons I've tried to disengage with her as much as possible. I'm only getting involved now, because it's in my best interest to do so. I know her, and I know if I don't get involved that I'll pay for it far more later. Can you expand on "in your best interest to do so"? I was expecting to see in the initial post that your finances were comingled in with hers, or that you jointly owned the house or something. What is the benefit here for your intervention (other than not having to deal with her issues later, which is always going to be there and has existed in one form of another always if you're going to be guilted into doing something to help eventually). Maybe I missed it, but this doesn't seem like anything "new" in this situation.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Mar 23, 2017 13:44:05 GMT -5
Also, she is not fully functioning. She can't even lift a box on her own. Just because she cannot lift a box does not mean that she is stupid. I can't lift a box either, and I think that I'd be really pissed if someone did to me what you are suggesting that the OP do.
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hoops902
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Post by hoops902 on Mar 23, 2017 13:48:09 GMT -5
Also, she is not fully functioning. She can't even lift a box on her own. Just because she cannot lift a box does not mean that she is stupid. I can't lift a box either, and I think that I'd be really pissed if someone did to me what you are suggesting that the OP do. Agreed, stealing everyone's things "for their own good" isn't a very good answer to any problem...particularly when you have an option to simply stay out of it. Getting involved only to commit a crime against someone is a worse option than just minding your own business in the first place.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Mar 23, 2017 14:23:27 GMT -5
It's sad when my dad and I have conversations about dealing with the stress of aging parents and he's talking about my 89 year old grandmother, and I'm talking about his ex-wife who is 8 years younger than him. However, some of this is part of the manipulation and control she exerts. Acting helpless is what she does. It's one of the many reasons I've tried to disengage with her as much as possible. I'm only getting involved now, because it's in my best interest to do so. I know her, and I know if I don't get involved that I'll pay for it far more later. Can you expand on "in your best interest to do so"? I was expecting to see in the initial post that your finances were comingled in with hers, or that you jointly owned the house or something. What is the benefit here for your intervention (other than not having to deal with her issues later, which is always going to be there and has existed in one form of another always if you're going to be guilted into doing something to help eventually). Maybe I missed it, but this doesn't seem like anything "new" in this situation. By best interest, I mean my mental health and long-term financial health. The situation right now is manageable from a financial and mental health perspective. It's a sucky situation, but one that is temporary and that I can handle. But, this isn't a new situation. You are correct about that. And to be honest, I'd like to hold onto the relationships with my aunt and other few family members this side of the pond for as long as I can. Because if I walk away from my mother and let her go homeless, they will walk away from me.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 23, 2017 14:29:47 GMT -5
Can they take her in?
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Mar 23, 2017 14:40:50 GMT -5
They won't. No one can tolerate her long-term. Most people get the way she is, but, there also seems to be consensus that as I'm her only child in the area that taking care of my mother is my responsibility. Probably because it's easier for them if they can blame me if she gets evicted. To be honest, I'll have to pull the band-aid off at some point, I'd just prefer to delay it as much as possible!
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 23, 2017 14:57:58 GMT -5
I always enjoy others who have opinions but no help. Not.
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naughtybear
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Post by naughtybear on Mar 23, 2017 19:01:53 GMT -5
I'm a little surprised that a poster can't see that it is the OP best interest to try to deal with it now or telling her to mind her own business, who wants to see their mother homeless. The OP is trying to intervene just a little to get a desired outcome for the both of them. Family is family and we don't always like them but they are our family and sometimes we have to help.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Mar 24, 2017 7:31:26 GMT -5
Family is family and we don't always like them but they are our family and sometimes we have to help. I don't know if this directed at me. Yes, sometimes we have to help. It's not reasonable to sacrifice ourselves to do it. It's not the job of family to shield others from the consequences of their behavior or be fixers. And you don't know what one must deal with while "helping" family.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Mar 24, 2017 7:55:47 GMT -5
Family is family and we don't always like them but they are our family and sometimes we have to help. I don't know if this directed at me. Yes, sometimes we have to help. It's not reasonable to sacrifice ourselves to do it. It's not the job of family to shield others from the consequences of their behavior or be fixers. And you don't know what one must deal with while "helping" family. Agreed. And I also don't think that because someone is related to you that you are obligated to help them. However I think that the situation is often more complex. At some point I think I'll need to walk away completely for my own mental health, But, I'm not there yet. Anyway, the POD has been ordered and will be delivered this afternoon.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Mar 24, 2017 8:11:03 GMT -5
I guess since this is going to all fall on you, the least those "helpful" family members could do is babysit her while you and I hope a helper start moving stuff into it" but unlikely. I'm afraid you'll have to deal with her while you're doing this. I'm so sorry.
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