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Jul 30, 2016 16:28:56 GMT -5
Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 30, 2016 16:28:56 GMT -5
It depends upon what they have managed to do with that English degree. I have a friend who has one, and probably makes close to $200K/year with it. English degrees CAN be valuable in the right person, at the right time and in the right profession. Like being a medical editor. Cough*personalexperience*cough Close......
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jul 30, 2016 16:32:05 GMT -5
Maybe not but I know plenty of lawyers who got into law school with English majors. I know plenty of engineers who struggled with student loans for years, but all the lawyers seemed to pay theirs just fine. So which undergrad was really worth more? Except an engineering degree isn't ab advanced degree. You aren't comparing apples to apples. How valuable would an English degree be if they didn't then go to law school? Every single one of my college friends, most of whom have liberal arts degrees, are doing just fine.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 30, 2016 16:49:47 GMT -5
the secretary at my old firm had an English degree. She was awesome at what she did and made lots of grammatical fixes to everyone's letters, reports, etc. But on the day she retired she made $40k. Counter that with out fresh out of college new hires (4 year accounting degree) that made $41k (this was 7 years ago and I live in a lcola). So Im not saying that they aren't valuable but I don't see English degrees bringing in big bucks without getting an advanced degree. Therefore I can't imagine spending 4 years and a lot of money on a degree that won't make some decent bank
But I guess that depends on what a person wants out of life. My boss' wife has a teaching degree but has worked at a preschool for 25 years. She makes $30k a year but loves the hours and the lack of stress (compared to get husband). But he brings in over $200k a year plus car allowance and bonus so it isn't like she has ever had to worry about making money
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 30, 2016 16:50:52 GMT -5
Except an engineering degree isn't ab advanced degree. You aren't comparing apples to apples. How valuable would an English degree be if they didn't then go to law school? Every single one of my college friends, most of whom have liberal arts degrees, are doing just fine. I know a lot of people that are doing fine without degrees, too. I just question whether some liberal arts degrees are monetarily worth it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2016 16:56:46 GMT -5
Well, I make less than 40K/year with a STEM degree, so...
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S T E M
Jul 30, 2016 17:20:36 GMT -5
Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 30, 2016 17:20:36 GMT -5
With my STEM degree back in 1981, I made $11,000/year. When I stepped out of the workforce in 2012, with a MS and ABD of a PhD, I made a whopping $64,000, and I was well paid for the position I was in. I loved what I did, and was willing to take the pay hit to do what I wanted to do.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jul 30, 2016 17:33:03 GMT -5
Why is the aim to make a ton of money?
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 30, 2016 17:39:00 GMT -5
With my STEM degree back in 1981, I made $11,000/year. When I stepped out of the workforce in 2012, with a MS and ABD of a PhD, I made a whopping $64,000, and I was well paid for the position I was in. I loved what I did, and was willing to take the pay hit to do what I wanted to do. [m We got the wrong STEM degrees. br]
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S T E M
Jul 30, 2016 17:40:35 GMT -5
Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Jul 30, 2016 17:40:35 GMT -5
Why is the aim to make a ton of money? I didn't want to make a ton of money. However, I also wanted to be able to support myself comfortably. It took me 30 years to get there. And I had only myself to support.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jul 30, 2016 17:42:26 GMT -5
I imagine the intent of this goes beyond straight science, technology, engineering, and medicine. Accounting, finance, business, and management would be included, as would agriculture, military, and other 'useful' pursuits. But political science, archaeology, and philosophy majors would probably have to go into the 'B' ark. Actually, I've read that the social sciences count as science. Where would those business subjects fall into STEM? I think you're reaching there. If you're going to count those, you'd need to add a letter. At my school everyone that graduated the business college graduates with a BS. Technically our school was a BSBA (bachelors of science in business administration) because there are core business courses every major takes. I would think any major that results in a BS would be considered STEM, but maybe I'm wrong? I consider mine to be - I took damn differential equations!!!
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 30, 2016 17:42:59 GMT -5
Why is the aim to make a ton of money? Hi you must be new here.
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cyanne
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Jul 30, 2016 18:13:29 GMT -5
Post by cyanne on Jul 30, 2016 18:13:29 GMT -5
Every single one of my college friends, most of whom have liberal arts degrees, are doing just fine. I know a lot of people that are doing fine without degrees, too. I just question whether some liberal arts degrees are monetarily worth it. My SIL has an English degree. She has worked in public relations since graduating and makes well over 6 figures now. She did not attend grad school.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 30, 2016 18:52:26 GMT -5
Why is the aim to make a ton of money? I look at it as a return on investment. Why spend $100k and four years of lost wages if there is no upside financially?
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jul 30, 2016 18:59:01 GMT -5
Except an engineering degree isn't ab advanced degree. You aren't comparing apples to apples. How valuable would an English degree be if they didn't then go to law school? Every single one of my college friends, most of whom have liberal arts degrees, are doing just fine. I don't think the point of this thread is that liberal arts degree are worthless. When I went to college, if I took loans for my degree (accounting), I would have graduated with under $20K. Let's say $30K. My starting salary (which, btw, wasn't that great) was $28K. My friend's starting salary (same major, same time frame, same college costs) was $42K/yr That's doable. That makes sense. At that same time our other friend went to private liberal arts school and got some sort of liberal arts degree. Her loans were double. Her salary was $20K/yr. To me that makes a lot less sense. Sure, over the years it might all even out and plenty of people doing just fine. At least they were. I am not so sure if it's still the case bc I think things changed over the years. The general value of college degree changed over the years.
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tskeeter
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Jul 30, 2016 19:00:27 GMT -5
Post by tskeeter on Jul 30, 2016 19:00:27 GMT -5
Sorry Didn't mean to raise a ruckus .......... just trying to weed out the $100K student loans in basket weaving at the university level. Seriously though. No offense but this seems like trolling....If you honestly thing I'm a troll ....... you are not required to answer my legitimate question. We sorta knew what the letters meant but not real sure. I think trade and tech schools are wonderful, the university level should not offer any 'dumb-bell' classes under any circumstances. If such a class is needed after an entrance exam, then the local community college is there. Agree with your comment regarding remedial classes. The local newspaper reports that 40 percent of all students at the local university ( which is recognized as the best school in the state) are taking remedial classes to do college level work. An acquaintance, who used to be a cost accounting professor, retired early because she couldn't deal with students who were not equipped to do the work any more. And, I didn't find cost accounting to be the most difficult accounting class I took. Guess the concept of being college material doesn't apply any more.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jul 30, 2016 19:05:20 GMT -5
Why is the aim to make a ton of money? For many people it's not and that's fine. But do you think they still have the right to complain that they can't afford their life ? the ONLY reason I went to college is bc I didn't know what else I could be doing and still being able to support myself. I couldn't cut hair or do nails, I couldn't watch kids or pets, I couldn't work in anything medical related. I don't have it in me to start a business and I am way too risk averse anyway. I can't sell anything. If I had any talents at all, I would have use those talents to make money and then take college classes for fun. I would have taken a lot more philosophy (I only took one class), I would have taken tons of psych classes and art and music. But I couldn't afford it. I wish I did, bc now I don't have the time
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whoisjohngalt
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Jul 30, 2016 19:08:42 GMT -5
Post by whoisjohngalt on Jul 30, 2016 19:08:42 GMT -5
With my STEM degree back in 1981, I made $11,000/year. When I stepped out of the workforce in 2012, with a MS and ABD of a PhD, I made a whopping $64,000, and I was well paid for the position I was in. I loved what I did, and was willing to take the pay hit to do what I wanted to do. I remember a coworker, who was an actuary and making 6 figures (and she wasn't even 30 yet) telling me about her sister, who had PhD in biology and was making $28K There ya go - STEM degree all the way and VERY little money.
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tskeeter
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Post by tskeeter on Jul 30, 2016 19:15:40 GMT -5
Why is the aim to make a ton of money? I don't think the objective needs to be about money. But, if you make choices that lead to a low paying career, I think you kind of give up the opportunity to fuss about the difficulty paying student loans, or not living the lifestyle you might like. You had the same opportunity to make other choices as other people.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Jul 30, 2016 19:24:42 GMT -5
Actually, I've read that the social sciences count as science. Where would those business subjects fall into STEM? I think you're reaching there. If you're going to count those, you'd need to add a letter. At my school everyone that graduated the business college graduates with a BS. Technically our school was a BSBA (bachelors of science in business administration) because there are core business courses every major takes. I would think any major that results in a BS would be considered STEM, but maybe I'm wrong? I consider mine to be - I took damn differential equations!!! I don't know. My Psych degree was a BS, while the finance degree was a BBA--a category to itself. That just reminded me! Medicine used to be considered an art, so there's that! 😛
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 30, 2016 19:27:04 GMT -5
Why is the aim to make a ton of money? For many people it's not and that's fine. But do you think they still have the right to complain that they can't afford their life ? the ONLY reason I went to college is bc I didn't know what else I could be doing and still being able to support myself. I couldn't cut hair or do nails, I couldn't watch kids or pets, I couldn't work in anything medical related. I don't have it in me to start a business and I am way too risk averse anyway. I can't sell anything. If I had any talents at all, I would have use those talents to make money and then take college classes for fun. I would have taken a lot more philosophy (I only took one class), I would have taken tons of psych classes and art and music. But I couldn't afford it. I wish I did, bc now I don't have the time I grew up poor. My objective was not to struggle as an adult. Perhaps that's why I don't understand spending tens of thousands of dollars on a degree not to mention 4 years of lost wages when it won't give me a better life. My accounts payable position is not a degreed position but it pays $37k. I have had both non degreed people and someone with two years and there was no difference in performance. So why would I spend well over $100k (we can't forget lost wages when we tally the cost of an education) for a position that wouldn't pay me anymore than a position without a degree? It honestly makes no sense to me
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 30, 2016 19:27:51 GMT -5
At my school everyone that graduated the business college graduates with a BS. Technically our school was a BSBA (bachelors of science in business administration) because there are core business courses every major takes. I would think any major that results in a BS would be considered STEM, but maybe I'm wrong? I consider mine to be - I took damn differential equations!!! I don't know. My Psych degree was a BS, while the finance degree was a BBA--a category to itself. That just reminded me! Medicine used to be considered an art, so there's that! 😛 I have a bs in accounting...apparently i majored in bullshit :-p
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 30, 2016 19:30:38 GMT -5
Why is the aim to make a ton of money? I don't think the objective needs to be about money. But, if you make choices that lead to a low paying career, I think you kind of give up the opportunity to fuss about the difficulty paying student loans, or not living the lifestyle you might like. You had the same opportunity to make other choices as other people. So much this. My niece is 29 and still struggling financially because of her choice of degree. I love her but she still refuses to accept that she made poor choices. It is the schools fault.....
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Jul 30, 2016 20:10:50 GMT -5
Hmmmmm...my niece is starting college this fall. Double major of law and forensic chemistry. So that makes her a half-STEM, right? How does one calculate the money she could get for a loan? (FWIW, she does not need a loan; she worked her tail off getting grants and scholarships, plus she worked and her parents saved for her education for years. So she is good for money.) I dislike the idea of keeping loan money just for students in certain majors. Without education of all kinds, this world would be a boring place. And not everyone is a STEM-type person, either. We need people employed in non-STEM jobs, too. The issue of not paying back loans can be handled better than simply denying people the funds. And it has to start long before the application process begins. It has to start by teaching kids early that money does not grown on trees, ready for the taking whenever they run short on their allowance or babysitting money. Money is a tool, not an entitlement. And there is always a trade off: when you accept funds from an outside source, and sign your name to a paper promising to pay it back, that signature is binding. You cannot run and hide from it. It's the post-graduate pressure that is put upon you to get out there and earn a living, even if it is not exactly in your chosen field right off the bat. The money has to be repaid, and the lender could probably care less where it comes from, as long as it is paid back. And paying it back may mean you don't get the nice apartment, fancy car or weekends out partying for awhile. It means denial, and a lot of kids just don't handle that well, because they have not been confronted with it in their lives. Introducing tough financial love at the college level is really pretty late in the game; at that point, young adults who have not learned the value of money are going to have a lot of trouble figuring it out. They are more interested in getting the latest iPhone upgrade or getting out to the newest gastropub in town.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 30, 2016 21:32:12 GMT -5
I got out of college with a teaching degree and no teaching jobs. I got hired in a bank as a manager trainee. No way now would I be able to get that job because there are lots of finance and other business degrees taking those jobs.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jul 30, 2016 21:33:27 GMT -5
People can complain about whatever they want to. If you want to spend $100k on something worthless, knock yourself out! Just pay all that money back if it's a loan. And why does everyone assume the debt is $100k? I had about $20k in loans. My mom took out parent loans - don't know the amount but they are her responsibility. My 1st Bachelor's loans are paid. I am about to take out about $21k this year. If I that amount out each year, I will be at over $100k after I'm done. I plan to pay it all back. It will suck major ass, but I will do it (and hopefully have a better paying job to help with that). Since schools loans can't be discharged, someone's decision to spend $100k on school doesn't affect you in any way and is really not your business no matter how foolish you think it is.
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tskeeter
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Jul 30, 2016 22:20:38 GMT -5
Post by tskeeter on Jul 30, 2016 22:20:38 GMT -5
People can complain about whatever they want to. If you want to spend $100k on something worthless, knock yourself out! Just pay all that money back if it's a loan. And why does everyone assume the debt is $100k? I had about $20k in loans. My mom took out parent loans - don't know the amount but they are her responsibility. My 1st Bachelor's loans are paid. I am about to take out about $21k this year. If I that amount out each year, I will be at over $100k after I'm done. I plan to pay it all back. It will suck major ass, but I will do it (and hopefully have a better paying job to help with that). Since schools loans can't be discharged, someone's decision to spend $100k on school doesn't affect you in any way and is really not your business no matter how foolish you think it is. I disagree with your NOYB position. If people take out loans that they can't or won't repay, it affects all of us. Loans that don't get repaid result in higher interest rates for other borrowers (us). And make it more difficult for other borrowers to get credit. One has only to think back to 2009 - 2014 to see the impact of unpaid loans on the general public.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jul 30, 2016 22:24:16 GMT -5
People can complain about whatever they want to. If you want to spend $100k on something worthless, knock yourself out! Just pay all that money back if it's a loan. And why does everyone assume the debt is $100k? I had about $20k in loans. My mom took out parent loans - don't know the amount but they are her responsibility. My 1st Bachelor's loans are paid. I am about to take out about $21k this year. If I that amount out each year, I will be at over $100k after I'm done. I plan to pay it all back. It will suck major ass, but I will do it (and hopefully have a better paying job to help with that). Since schools loans can't be discharged, someone's decision to spend $100k on school doesn't affect you in any way and is really not your business no matter how foolish you think it is. Im not talking about $100k in loans in my post above. But assuming a person lost four years of full time wages you have to add in the lost compensation. Assuming lost wages of $30k a year you are well over $100k as a cost Nothing we discuss on here is our business but that doesn't mean we don't discuss it. And people can complain about whatever they want. I think his point was that when a person brings on financial difficulties because of their own poor choices who wants to hear it?
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Apple
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Jul 30, 2016 22:30:43 GMT -5
Post by Apple on Jul 30, 2016 22:30:43 GMT -5
I know I'm late to the game, but one of the women I quilt with used to be a doctor. She went to med school in her 40s, about the same time one of her daughters started college. From all accounts, she was an extremely good doctor (retired now). I believe her life before med school, as a mom, wife, employee, etc, was extremely valuable to her career. It gave her a different perspective than doctors who had gone straight from high school, to college, to med school.
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lurkyloo
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Post by lurkyloo on Jul 31, 2016 7:33:23 GMT -5
Don't believe the hype around STEM...particularly the S. I have a hard science degree--several, actually, from top schools. I wouldn't recommend anyone go the S route. They did a survey and found that the money and job growth was all in TEM. The shortage of US science degree holders is a total myth. It sounds good to politicians (and to businesses that want to increase the worker supply and hold wages down)...been debunked many, many times but the idiot speeches just keep coming With my 11 years of post-HS school/training in S, I make roughly a third of what DH does with his E degrees. Same school for the PhD, as to the rest...meh, he has a master's as well; I did a fellowship and a postdoc at an equally well rated school. I'm likely one of the lower earners among my graduating class while he's one of the higher ones in his, but the average holds. I think business/accounting and computer science/programming are good bets from a field stability/growth point of view. However, a psychology BA that you use for marketing and/or sales will likely earn you more than a STEM PhD if you're good at your job. I wouldn't recommend hard and fast rules so much; I'd recommend talking to your kid and making sure (s)he has a plan, an idea of how (insanely) much tuition and other expenses cost, and what the effects of student loans would be on his/her quality of life. Also what a real danger outsourcing to China and India is. Programming can be outsourced without even trying very hard; a plumber or electrician has to be on site.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2016 7:51:31 GMT -5
I disagree with your NOYB position. If people take out loans that they can't or won't repay, it affects all of us. Loans that don't get repaid result in higher interest rates for other borrowers (us). And make it more difficult for other borrowers to get credit. One has only to think back to 2009 - 2014 to see the impact of unpaid loans on the general public. Heavy loan debt can also mean postponing marriage and/or kids. Since formation of new households and a steady entry of younger workers into the workforce are part of a good economy that hurts us all. It also means fewer people in jobs such as social work or early childhood education, where the cost of the degree might not be justified by the income potential. And, finally, some unpaid student loans (maybe only the government-guaranteed ones?) and be garnished from your Social Security payments, so now we've got more old people relying on taxpayer-funded programs to stay alive.
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