quince
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Post by quince on Jun 30, 2016 16:30:45 GMT -5
I don't know who sees a person being pregnant and thinks they aren't suffering much. I want those people's pregnancies.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jun 30, 2016 18:52:07 GMT -5
I know it's not a popular view but it was best for baby and mother. One advantage is it made some of us not want sex before we were adults. I knew if I was pregnant at 16 I didn't get to keep a baby, abortion was illegal so have it and give it away. Birth control wasn't available to me even if it had been invented and I hadn't been told about condoms until I was 17 so sex wasn't something I would risk. Now a girl as young as 12 keeps the baby, everyone helps, parents watch it while she is in school, she gets WIC and some day cares are in schools so you can have a 6 year old when you finish high school without having to drop out, marry the guy or even change many diapers. Some grandparents end up raising the kids so the mother can go to college, start a career. Other girls see she didn't suffer much and don't see the harm in having one too. Other than religion I don't think you will find many 17 year old virgins now. Forced marriages were the worst part of old style knocked up girls. Two people forced to marry without any desire as punishment for pregnancy. My BFF in 1970 was married to someone who didn't want to marry her in the late 50s so oldest kid was 12 and 4 total. Her parents said you made your bed you lay in it and forced the marriage and no way would support her after that even if she was a teen. I am not religious and I was a virgin til 19. It's called "I'm not letting one of these Neanderthals father any of my children."
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taz157
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Post by taz157 on Jun 30, 2016 18:59:24 GMT -5
One advantage is it made some of us not want sex before we were adults. I knew if I was pregnant at 16 I didn't get to keep a baby, abortion was illegal so have it and give it away. Birth control wasn't available to me even if it had been invented and I hadn't been told about condoms until I was 17 so sex wasn't something I would risk. Now a girl as young as 12 keeps the baby, everyone helps, parents watch it while she is in school, she gets WIC and some day cares are in schools so you can have a 6 year old when you finish high school without having to drop out, marry the guy or even change many diapers. Some grandparents end up raising the kids so the mother can go to college, start a career. Other girls see she didn't suffer much and don't see the harm in having one too. Other than religion I don't think you will find many 17 year old virgins now. Forced marriages were the worst part of old style knocked up girls. Two people forced to marry without any desire as punishment for pregnancy. My BFF in 1970 was married to someone who didn't want to marry her in the late 50s so oldest kid was 12 and 4 total. Her parents said you made your bed you lay in it and forced the marriage and no way would support her after that even if she was a teen. I am not religious and I was a virgin til 19. It's called "I'm not letting one of these Neanderthals father any of my children." It was also I was TERRIFIED I would get pregnant in high school, which I knew I didn't want to do. I had things I wanted to do and getting pregnant in high school wasn't one of them.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jun 30, 2016 19:08:05 GMT -5
I was lucky enough to date a guy who was as terrified of getting a girl pregnant as I was of getting pregnant. I knew one girl who wasn't "sent away" or forced to get an abortion. She was made to marry the boy and her family supported them. Only because her family was a "name" in the town was she allowed to stay in school pregnant.
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taz157
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Post by taz157 on Jun 30, 2016 19:17:25 GMT -5
My high school had no worry about me getting pregnant, but I was absolutely TERRIFIED. After we broke up, I saw him with his parents, a girl, and a baby in a car seat. I thanked my lucky stars that wasn't me!!!
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Jun 30, 2016 21:05:25 GMT -5
Most of my high school classmates who got pregnant went to live with an aunt. There were a few who continued with school and had the baby. One of those, who got pregnant when we were sophomores, is still married to that guy from high school.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Jun 30, 2016 21:10:23 GMT -5
My mom figured out that the mother of my best friend from down the street was out cheating on her husband in the evenings once we were old enough for my friend to babysit. Mom figured it out when the other mother told her how she would buy really nice clothes and return them before her husband got home on the weekend. He worked out of town most weeks. Neighborhood kids resented the kid my friend had to babysit. She was just a drag on our fun.
Neighbor across the street was supposedly working as a waitress in the evening. I babysat her kids a lot. One of my dad's single co-workers told my dad she had propositioned him in a bar, so I don't think she worked as a waitress.
The only thing I will say for her is that her husband got Parkinson's and she took care of him at home until he died. She had to pay for what she did. He was an alcoholic and spent the evenings in bars. That is why they needed me to babysit.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jun 30, 2016 23:48:29 GMT -5
I know it's not a popular view but it was best for baby and mother. One advantage is it made some of us not want sex before we were adults. I knew if I was pregnant at 16 I didn't get to keep a baby, abortion was illegal so have it and give it away. Birth control wasn't available to me even if it had been invented and I hadn't been told about condoms until I was 17 so sex wasn't something I would risk. Now a girl as young as 12 keeps the baby, everyone helps, parents watch it while she is in school, she gets WIC and some day cares are in schools so you can have a 6 year old when you finish high school without having to drop out, marry the guy or even change many diapers. Some grandparents end up raising the kids so the mother can go to college, start a career. Other girls see she didn't suffer much and don't see the harm in having one too. Other than religion I don't think you will find many 17 year old virgins now. Forced marriages were the worst part of old style knocked up girls. Two people forced to marry without any desire as punishment for pregnancy. My BFF in 1970 was married to someone who didn't want to marry her in the late 50s so oldest kid was 12 and 4 total. Her parents said you made your bed you lay in it and forced the marriage and no way would support her after that even if she was a teen. A 40 year old grandmother and a 17 year old mother raising a child together seems like an ideal mix. The energy and the patience. The jubilance and the experience. The ability to relate and the rock of stability. I think it makes a lot of sense. Sure, the concept is a little sister wives - but if our society was structured completely different, it would be great. We are an isolated society, and we think anything but a large space bubble around our families is weird, and somehow not the right thing to do. I am not sure that is true.
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Jul 1, 2016 5:15:54 GMT -5
One advantage is it made some of us not want sex before we were adults. I knew if I was pregnant at 16 I didn't get to keep a baby, abortion was illegal so have it and give it away. Birth control wasn't available to me even if it had been invented and I hadn't been told about condoms until I was 17 so sex wasn't something I would risk. Now a girl as young as 12 keeps the baby, everyone helps, parents watch it while she is in school, she gets WIC and some day cares are in schools so you can have a 6 year old when you finish high school without having to drop out, marry the guy or even change many diapers. Some grandparents end up raising the kids so the mother can go to college, start a career. Other girls see she didn't suffer much and don't see the harm in having one too. Other than religion I don't think you will find many 17 year old virgins now. Forced marriages were the worst part of old style knocked up girls. Two people forced to marry without any desire as punishment for pregnancy. My BFF in 1970 was married to someone who didn't want to marry her in the late 50s so oldest kid was 12 and 4 total. Her parents said you made your bed you lay in it and forced the marriage and no way would support her after that even if she was a teen. A 40 year old grandmother and a 17 year old mother raising a child together seems like an ideal mix. The energy and the patience. The jubilance and the experience. The ability to relate and the rock of stability. I think it makes a lot of sense. Sure, the concept is a little sister wives - but if our society was structured completely different, it would be great. We are an isolated society, and we think anything but a large space bubble around our families is weird, and somehow not the right thing to do. I am not sure that is true. Not if the 40 year old was a single mother and this is her oldest while she hasn't had any money to save for retirement and still has others as preteens. Working all day and taking care of your own kids then your grand kids can keep you poor for life. This would only work if the grandmother was a SAHM on welfare or with a husband to support them. When I was 17 mom was 38 and didn't start her career until she was 40. Being saddled with helping raise grandkids would have meant no career at all. She got grandkids starting at 42 but her sons were married and supported their own children.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2016 7:31:36 GMT -5
Yeah I can see both sides of that one.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2016 7:42:33 GMT -5
I knew if I was pregnant at 16 I didn't get to keep a baby, abortion was illegal so have it and give it away. Birth control wasn't available to me even if it had been invented and I hadn't been told about condoms until I was 17 so sex wasn't something I would risk. Now a girl as young as 12 keeps the baby, everyone helps, parents watch it while she is in school, she gets WIC and some day cares are in schools so you can have a 6 year old when you finish high school without having to drop out, marry the guy or even change many diapers. Some grandparents end up raising the kids so the mother can go to college, start a career. Other girls see she didn't suffer much and don't see the harm in having one too. Other than religion I don't think you will find many 17 year old virgins now. It's a fine balance. The "good old days" of shaming, forced marriages, having to give the baby up and being expected to forget it happened, weren't so good. The impact of an out-of-wedlock pregnancy, of course, fell mostly on the girl unless the guy got forced into marrying her or paying CS. And yet... I feel that it's too easy now to just neglect contraception because all your friends are having babies and they're so cute and your parents and the government will help you out. It still makes it darn hard to continue your education and be able to support yourself. Not impossible, I know; a niece had a baby at 19 and with SIGNIFICANT help from parents finished her education and eventually married a good guy, had another child and got advanced training. She's now an Interventional Radiologist. But how often does that happen?
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Jul 1, 2016 12:47:36 GMT -5
Reminds me of "Make America Great Again". When were the good old days and what was good about them for anyone who wasn't a white male?
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jul 1, 2016 12:58:11 GMT -5
The statistics show that teen pregnancy is at an all time low for the United States www.cdc.gov/teenpregnancy/about/So are there REALLY more pregnant teens out there or are we just seeing "more" because now it's no longer swept under the rug? We're hardwired to decide first, seek evidence later. It's why when you looking to buy something (say a car) you'll start seeing more and more of the car you're looking at on the road and start to think it must be a pretty popular brand. Your brain is backing up the decision you've already made.
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Jul 1, 2016 14:06:40 GMT -5
The statistics show that teen pregnancy is at an all time low for the United States www.cdc.gov/teenpregnancy/about/So are there REALLY more pregnant teens out there or are we just seeing "more" because now it's no longer swept under the rug? We're hardwired to decide first, seek evidence later. It's why when you looking to buy something (say a car) you'll start seeing more and more of the car you're looking at on the road and start to think it must be a pretty popular brand. Your brain is backing up the decision you've already made. I don't see it as an all time low on that just looks like since 1991. Our family and many others have/had it normal to marry at 18 and have your first baby at 19 so teen births aren't all unplanned or unwanted. Mom married at 18 first born at 19 her mom too. My brother married a 17 year old and she was 19 when they had a baby, I married at 19 but started trying to conceive at 19 and fertility drugs at 19. Seems like about 1/3 of the girls in high school were engaged by graduation in a small town, married and pregnant the first year out of high school.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Jul 1, 2016 14:13:50 GMT -5
Reminds me of "Make America Great Again". When were the good old days and what was good about them for anyone who wasn't a white male? POTD!!!!!
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 2, 2016 7:05:00 GMT -5
Yes and no. Some women and their children were very happy and lucky to be born into stable families where one income was enough to raise your family in a decent neighborhood in a decent school district. Yes, they had one car but most did. My aunts and cousins consider themselves blessed to have had that life and wish they could provide it for their own families.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2016 7:46:18 GMT -5
Reminds me of "Make America Great Again". When were the good old days and what was good about them for anyone who wasn't a white male? POTD!!!!! I agree. Did you see the movie "Suffragette"? It took place in England but was a vivid portrayal of life among those who weren't rich white males.
The 1950s"Dad makes the money, Mom takes care of the kids" model can work very well. IF Dad has a good job, Dad isn't abusive, you're not a single woman trying to support yourself, Dad stays alive and employed, Dad has life or disability insurance if something bad happens, Dad doesn't leave you for a younger woman....No, I don't wanna go back to those days.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Jul 2, 2016 8:39:09 GMT -5
My parents were teenagers in a suburban area of a large city. They were part of a "church youth group" that they are still friends with now in their mid 70s. They all pretty much got married and had kids around the same time. The kids group ( I would be part of, now mostly in our 50s) grew up together and I am still friends with a lot of them, although I moved away. Divorces in my parents group were rare - I don't know of any.
In one family, both the husband and wife died fairly young. A couple of years ago the kids were surprised to learn they had an older half brother. It was a pretty big shock to all and I guess it happened before the mom was part of the " group".
Of course nothing was perfect. I was a 9 1/2 lb baby born 5 months after my parents marriage. Growing up we celebrated my parents anniversary but just never knew how many years. When I was a teen, my brother and I figured out the wedding date, but never really talked to our parents. Then we just set up their 25th wedding anniversary party.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 2, 2016 9:59:41 GMT -5
Yes, but I still see the value of what thyme noted. Close families and human connections. We are a very materialistic society, and what we consider "poor" in a material sense need not be so in an inter-familial relations sense. Which, in the end, is more important?
I am not saying it would be for me- I am materialistic, with my space and my lawn, and most of my family at arms length. Just sayin'. If you were raised differently, you might find your space, and lawn and family at arms length lonely. I know some people need more space than others, but I think we have created a normal of a minimum amount of space that is not necessarily natural or necessary had we always done it differently. As far as being a single mother and broke and needing to save for retirement - if the norm was shared housing (maybe even duplex situations) then the financial burden of all stages of life could be shared a little. Maybe the young single mother doesn't have any rent or utility expenses, so when she becomes the Grandma she was okay when she was younger, and now she can foot the bill. I'm not saying multi-generational living is a perfect solution. I just think that is only as flawed as what we are doing now - just flawed in a totally different way.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Jul 2, 2016 10:14:52 GMT -5
Yes, but I still see the value of what thyme noted. Close families and human connections. We are a very materialistic society, and what we consider "poor" in a material sense need not be so in an inter-familial relations sense. Which, in the end, is more important?
I am not saying it would be for me- I am materialistic, with my space and my lawn, and most of my family at arms length. Just sayin'. If you were raised differently, you might find your space, and lawn and family at arms length lonely. I know some people need more space than others, but I think we have created a normal of a minimum amount of space that is not necessarily natural or necessary had we always done it differently. As far as being a single mother and broke and needing to save for retirement - if the norm was shared housing (maybe even duplex situations) then the financial burden of all stages of life could be shared a little. Maybe the young single mother doesn't have any rent or utility expenses, so when she becomes the Grandma she was okay when she was younger, and now she can foot the bill. I'm not saying multi-generational living is a perfect solution. I just think that is only as flawed as what we are doing now - just flawed in a totally different way. It could be awesome if everyone contributed their share, but I don't see that happening much. I see a lot of taking advantage of instead, usually grandparents taking over most childcare duties while their children feel little of the burden of raising their own kids.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jul 2, 2016 10:47:38 GMT -5
An uncle of a friend of mine from high school was really her cousin. My friend's maternal aunt had a baby in her mid teens back in the early 1940s. To avoid raining shame upon her family, my friend's grandmother claimed she had a late-in-life baby and the child was raised and presented as the grandmother's son.
It was't a secret or lie within the family. Just a lie told to society.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2016 10:54:02 GMT -5
One of my friends also found out her sister was actually her mom later in life.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jul 2, 2016 10:57:18 GMT -5
One of my friends also found out her sister was actually her mom later in life. Yikes.
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dannylion
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Post by dannylion on Jul 2, 2016 11:26:00 GMT -5
One of my friends also found out her sister was actually her mom later in life. Yikes. Same thing happened to a high-school classmate. She got pregnant in her junior year, married the older brother of her boyfriend (I never did figure out why that happened), but her parents adopted the baby and raised it as her sister, and she came back senior year and graduated with the class. I assume at some point someone told the girl that her "older sister" was really her mother because everyone knew, and there is always someone who can't wait to make someone else feel bad, or maybe the family told her when they thought she was old enough to understand. In any event, I'm sure something like that wouldn't stay a secret forever since it was really only a secret from the one person who was most affected.
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cronewitch
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Post by cronewitch on Jul 2, 2016 12:09:45 GMT -5
Same thing happened to a high-school classmate. She got pregnant in her junior year, married the older brother of her boyfriend (I never did figure out why that happened), but her parents adopted the baby and raised it as her sister, and she came back senior year and graduated with the class. I assume at some point someone told the girl that her "older sister" was really her mother because everyone knew, and there is always someone who can't wait to make someone else feel bad, or maybe the family told her when they thought she was old enough to understand. In any event, I'm sure something like that wouldn't stay a secret forever since it was really only a secret from the one person who was most affected. Should you tell the person who the secret is about? My cousin is adopted, I know who her birth mom is, cousin is 60 her mom is dead. I don't know if she knows but she played with her half sisters as a child so knew the birth mother. My niece's son doesn't have the father he thinks he does, his dad signed his birth certificate and gave him his name but wasn't there for the conception does the 25 year old son have a right to know? I figure not my job to tell people even if I would want to know.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Jul 2, 2016 12:31:14 GMT -5
Same thing happened to a high-school classmate. She got pregnant in her junior year, married the older brother of her boyfriend (I never did figure out why that happened), but her parents adopted the baby and raised it as her sister, and she came back senior year and graduated with the class. I assume at some point someone told the girl that her "older sister" was really her mother because everyone knew, and there is always someone who can't wait to make someone else feel bad, or maybe the family told her when they thought she was old enough to understand. In any event, I'm sure something like that wouldn't stay a secret forever since it was really only a secret from the one person who was most affected. That's messed up.
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dannylion
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Post by dannylion on Jul 2, 2016 12:35:51 GMT -5
Same thing happened to a high-school classmate. She got pregnant in her junior year, married the older brother of her boyfriend (I never did figure out why that happened), but her parents adopted the baby and raised it as her sister, and she came back senior year and graduated with the class. I assume at some point someone told the girl that her "older sister" was really her mother because everyone knew, and there is always someone who can't wait to make someone else feel bad, or maybe the family told her when they thought she was old enough to understand. In any event, I'm sure something like that wouldn't stay a secret forever since it was really only a secret from the one person who was most affected. Should you tell the person who the secret is about? My cousin is adopted, I know who her birth mom is, cousin is 60 her mom is dead. I don't know if she knows but she played with her half sisters as a child so knew the birth mother. My niece's son doesn't have the father he thinks he does, his dad signed his birth certificate and gave him his name but wasn't there for the conception does the 25 year old son have a right to know? I figure not my job to tell people even if I would want to know. I guess it probably depends on the person and the circumstances. Just speaking for myself, I prefer to know the truth, whatever it is. I don't want it sugarcoated or dressed up to make anything look better. Just tell me the truth and I'll deal with it.
It's hard to maintain a lie in perpetuity, and when it has gone on for a very long time, it is hard to explain what the true story is without creating feelings of shock and betrayal. I understand that the fiction is often maintained out of a desire to protect the person affected, but I think people have a right to know their origins and to make their own decisions about how to deal with their lives.
I agree that even though I'd want to know the truth myself, I don't think it would be appropriate just to blurt out the truth, but if I were close to any of the parties to the lie, I think I would urge them to come clean. At some point, it is very likely that someone who may have ulterior motives or for no reason other than to cause pain will expose the lie, and that could cause more hurt than hearing the truth from caring and supportive family.
I'm just glad I am not privy to any dark family secrets. I think it would make me miserable, and I'd probably manage to get confused and let the cat out of the bag inadvertently anyway.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Jul 2, 2016 12:43:33 GMT -5
Same thing happened to a high-school classmate. She got pregnant in her junior year, married the older brother of her boyfriend (I never did figure out why that happened), but her parents adopted the baby and raised it as her sister, and she came back senior year and graduated with the class. I assume at some point someone told the girl that her "older sister" was really her mother because everyone knew, and there is always someone who can't wait to make someone else feel bad, or maybe the family told her when they thought she was old enough to understand. In any event, I'm sure something like that wouldn't stay a secret forever since it was really only a secret from the one person who was most affected. Should you tell the person who the secret is about? My cousin is adopted, I know who her birth mom is, cousin is 60 her mom is dead. I don't know if she knows but she played with her half sisters as a child so knew the birth mother. My niece's son doesn't have the father he thinks he does, his dad signed his birth certificate and gave him his name but wasn't there for the conception does the 25 year old son have a right to know? I figure not my job to tell people even if I would want to know. I would ask your cousin if she would like to know if she could find out easily.
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thyme4change
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Post by thyme4change on Jul 2, 2016 21:10:46 GMT -5
An uncle of a friend of mine from high school was really her cousin. My friend's maternal aunt had a baby in her mid teens back in the early 1940s. To avoid raining shame upon her family, my friend's grandmother claimed she had a late-in-life baby and the child was raised and presented as the grandmother's son. It was't a secret or lie within the family. Just a lie told to society. Again, that is current society. If we were all raised in multi-generational homes, we would understand the roles better and most likely play our part.
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milee
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Post by milee on Jul 2, 2016 21:37:57 GMT -5
An uncle of a friend of mine from high school was really her cousin. My friend's maternal aunt had a baby in her mid teens back in the early 1940s. To avoid raining shame upon her family, my friend's grandmother claimed she had a late-in-life baby and the child was raised and presented as the grandmother's son. It was't a secret or lie within the family. Just a lie told to society. Again, that is current society. If we were all raised in multi-generational homes, we would understand the roles better and most likely play our part. I like the idea of multi-generation homes. As a woman, though, I'd be concerned that the reality would be to reinforce gender stereotypes and equality would take a step backwards. Even talking about "roles" and "our part" is reminiscent of the not so distant past where the role of women was the default family caregiver. Bless anyone - man or woman - who likes and willingly takes on a caregiver role, but I'm totally and completely over that role being assigned to me by society, along with the associated judgment when I don't perform it as expected.
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