MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jun 11, 2016 13:02:00 GMT -5
It's not a matter of age. Although, if one raises rational objections to hugging a particular relative (e.g. Uncle Pete smells bad, Aunt May hugs too hard, etc.) or, by teenagehood, avers that one doesn't like being hugged by relatives and has never liked it (based on at least 13 years of experience), exceptions can be made. Children are self-centered, timid, unwise, and generally not as concerned with courtesy as they ought to be. They're irrational and sheltered. Parents sometimes have to establish firm expectations and push kids to do things they don't want to do. By teenagehood, a child is transitioning from being parentally motivated to being self-motivated and has an established history on which to base the claim "I've never liked being hugged, and this isn't going to change", hence if hugging is still a big issue, it can be revisited at that point. As for "teaching girls to smile and take it", I don't know what world you live in where factors like context, type of touch, circumstances, etc. can't factor into the determination of "Is this permissible or not?", but it's not my world. My parents were quite explicit with their teaching. Hugging and kissing Aunt May on the cheek: OK. Kissing Aunt May on the lips: not OK. Holding a girl's hand I liked: OK. Kissing girl briefly in the doorway: OK. Taking girl into my room or her room, even without the intention of having sex: not OK. Fondling, groping, or "making out" with a girl: not OK. Friend slapping me on the back: OK. Friend stroking my face or side: not OK. And so on. This was coupled with the very serious admonition that if something was "not OK", it was not only my right but also my obligation to protest. Tactfully, if possible (e.g. "Whoa. Hey! Don't go there, buddy."); aggressively, when necessary (e.g. "Do that again and you'll lose your hand."). I was taught and expected to proactively avoid situations where I'd have to take a stand or others would have to take a stand against me, whenever possible. This involved strict but reasonable rules when dating, hanging out with friends, etc. And of course it went without saying that I wasn't to have sex with any woman besides my wife and soul mate, which simplified things considerably. I consider it a great blessing to be a part of a family where everybody hugs, kisses, pats each other on the back without incessantly asking for permission. I appreciate that my 3-year-old nephew can run up to me and hug my leg without me having to scold him about the rules of consent lest he become a rapist 15 years from now. YMMV. Wow!! I certainly hope that if you have children you don't convey that sentiment to them. What a horrible opinion you have of them What he's describing is kids being fucking kids. Cuz God forbid they don't have the expectations and weight of the world thrust upon them immediately upon leaving the womb.
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Kolt!
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Post by Kolt! on Jun 11, 2016 13:11:36 GMT -5
I feel like if my mom hadn't forced me to hug anyone growing up I'd never had hugged literally anyone including her. No offense but to me that says more about you than it does about her. Me not wanting to be hugged by every person claiming to be family doesn't mean I don't welcome hugs and kisses from close friends and family members. I posted about this a few years ago but I worked with a chronic toucher (she retired in January). She would fix my shirt tag, put her hand on my back and rub it sometimes, hug me.... She could tell I didn't like it but she did it anyway. I shouldn't have had to deal with that but I did because what? I'd go to my boss and say "X keeps touching me and I don't want her to?" she grew up in that "everybody hugs" environment so I guess that excuses it. But I personally feel like it's important to welcome some touches every now and again like hugs. Not from strangers but family and loved ones. I just don't think it's good if a person refuses to ever be hugged by anyone, ever. But I know not everyone agrees with that. But I think it just comes off as really cold. It's just something I grew up with. Hugs that is. And only hugs. Not like rubbing shoulders, or rubbing someone's back, just brief hugs. And I know people out there that would refuse every. single. person. hugging them. I was that way. I'm not anymore but I had been. And if my mom had allowed me to be that way I don't think I'd know how to be touched (hugs) or be affectionate with my girlfriend because I'd be so closed off. I feel like I wouldn't even know how to be in a relationship...that's how bad it was for me. I didn't want anyone in my "personal space"
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Kolt!
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Post by Kolt! on Jun 11, 2016 13:18:28 GMT -5
I mean if a child is refusing to hug someone and they don't normally do that, I'd personally respect it. I'd also wonder why.
But if it's something where they go "Don't touch me!" to every single person, or "No, not hugging them" to every single person every day. Yes, I'm going to want to try to change that and figure out if it's just them being shy, or just "I'm too cool for hugs" because I know kids that do that too.
As some kids think they're to cool for hugs. But I also know hugs are important in children growing up and I'd be worried if they never let anyone hug them or touch them. As it is IMPORTANT. I can't stress that enough.
Not one specific person. Or just one day they don't wanna be hugged. But if it was something happening every day where they never wanted to be hugged...I'd be concerned.
I think it's important to have hugs and closeness to people. Not everyone but some people. And if they refused that with every single person I'd need to find out if they're just being brats or if there's an under lying issue. But I personally can't see myself letting my children get away with NEVER hugging anyone every day.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jun 11, 2016 13:41:01 GMT -5
No offense but to me that says more about you than it does about her. Me not wanting to be hugged by every person claiming to be family doesn't mean I don't welcome hugs and kisses from close friends and family members. I posted about this a few years ago but I worked with a chronic toucher (she retired in January). She would fix my shirt tag, put her hand on my back and rub it sometimes, hug me.... She could tell I didn't like it but she did it anyway. I shouldn't have had to deal with that but I did because what? I'd go to my boss and say "X keeps touching me and I don't want her to?" she grew up in that "everybody hugs" environment so I guess that excuses it. But I personally feel like it's important to welcome some touches every now and again like hugs. Not from strangers but family and loved ones. I just don't think it's good if a person refuses to ever be hugged by anyone, ever. But I know not everyone agrees with that. But I think it just comes off as really cold. It's just something I grew up with. Hugs that is. And only hugs. Not like rubbing shoulders, or rubbing someone's back, just brief hugs. And I know people out there that would refuse every. single. person. hugging them. I was that way. I'm not anymore but I had been. And if my mom had allowed me to be that way I don't think I'd know how to be touched (hugs) or be affectionate with my girlfriend because I'd be so closed off. I feel like I wouldn't even know how to be in a relationship...that's how bad it was for me. I didn't want anyone in my "personal space" Why is it either "accept hugs from everyone" or "accept them from no one ever"? Those aren't the only options for normal people.
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Kolt!
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Post by Kolt! on Jun 11, 2016 13:58:52 GMT -5
But I personally feel like it's important to welcome some touches every now and again like hugs. Not from strangers but family and loved ones. I just don't think it's good if a person refuses to ever be hugged by anyone, ever. But I know not everyone agrees with that. But I think it just comes off as really cold. It's just something I grew up with. Hugs that is. And only hugs. Not like rubbing shoulders, or rubbing someone's back, just brief hugs. And I know people out there that would refuse every. single. person. hugging them. I was that way. I'm not anymore but I had been. And if my mom had allowed me to be that way I don't think I'd know how to be touched (hugs) or be affectionate with my girlfriend because I'd be so closed off. I feel like I wouldn't even know how to be in a relationship...that's how bad it was for me. I didn't want anyone in my "personal space" Why is it either "accept hugs from everyone" or "accept them from no one ever"? Those aren't the only options for normal people. No, it isn't. I'm saying some people would never hug anyone, I know as a kid I'd hug nobody if my mom hadn't made me hug family members. It's acceptable to hug some people and not others. My only point was that some kids, some teenagers would refuse to hug every single person and never hug anyone, ever.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 11, 2016 13:59:56 GMT -5
We are a family of huggers. I can't imagine not hugging my relatives. It's just instinct to me. Luckily my kids aren't anti-huggers because that's completely foreign to me. I've always said "go give nanny a hug, we are leaving". I see nothing wrong with that.
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ken a.k.a OMK
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Post by ken a.k.a OMK on Jun 11, 2016 14:14:58 GMT -5
Male to male hugs in my family usually are with one arm going over your shoulder with a hard pat, unlike hugs with females which are both arms around the body and a little squeeze.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Jun 11, 2016 14:21:17 GMT -5
Male to male hugs in my family usually are with one arm going over your shoulder with a hard pat, unlike hugs with females which are both arms around the body and a little squeeze. And don't forget body contact between male-to-male hugs. From the mid-chest down, the distance between the two male huggers is like 20 feet.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jun 11, 2016 15:26:51 GMT -5
We are a family of huggers. I can't imagine not hugging my relatives. It's just instinct to me. Luckily my kids aren't anti-huggers because that's completely foreign to me. I've always said "go give nanny a hug, we are leaving". I see nothing wrong with that. If they say no, do you make them? I tell my kids to go give a relative a huh, but if they don't want to, meh no biggie. I do require that they exchange polite greetings. I hated being squeezed by my creepy relatives. I welcomed hugs from gramma. Thank we aren't huggers. This just hasn't been an issue.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 11, 2016 15:50:38 GMT -5
We are a family of huggers. I can't imagine not hugging my relatives. It's just instinct to me. Luckily my kids aren't anti-huggers because that's completely foreign to me. I've always said "go give nanny a hug, we are leaving". I see nothing wrong with that. If they say no, do you make them? I tell my kids to go give a relative a huh, but if they don't want to, meh no biggie. I do require that they exchange polite greetings. I hated being squeezed by my creepy relatives. I welcomed hugs from gramma. Thank we aren't huggers. This just hasn't been an issue. They have never refused to hug our relatives. I'm nor sure what I would do if they had refused to hug my mom or one of my aunts/uncles.
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jun 11, 2016 16:03:30 GMT -5
It's not a matter of age. Although, if one raises rational objections to hugging a particular relative (e.g. Uncle Pete smells bad, Aunt May hugs too hard, etc.) or, by teenagehood, avers that one doesn't like being hugged by relatives and has never liked it (based on at least 13 years of experience), exceptions can be made. Children are self-centered, timid, unwise, and generally not as concerned with courtesy as they ought to be. They're irrational and sheltered. Parents sometimes have to establish firm expectations and push kids to do things they don't want to do. By teenagehood, a child is transitioning from being parentally motivated to being self-motivated and has an established history on which to base the claim "I've never liked being hugged, and this isn't going to change", hence if hugging is still a big issue, it can be revisited at that point. As for "teaching girls to smile and take it", I don't know what world you live in where factors like context, type of touch, circumstances, etc. can't factor into the determination of "Is this permissible or not?", but it's not my world. My parents were quite explicit with their teaching. Hugging and kissing Aunt May on the cheek: OK. Kissing Aunt May on the lips: not OK. Holding a girl's hand I liked: OK. Kissing girl briefly in the doorway: OK. Taking girl into my room or her room, even without the intention of having sex: not OK. Fondling, groping, or "making out" with a girl: not OK. Friend slapping me on the back: OK. Friend stroking my face or side: not OK. And so on. This was coupled with the very serious admonition that if something was "not OK", it was not only my right but also my obligation to protest. Tactfully, if possible (e.g. "Whoa. Hey! Don't go there, buddy."); aggressively, when necessary (e.g. "Do that again and you'll lose your hand."). I was taught and expected to proactively avoid situations where I'd have to take a stand or others would have to take a stand against me, whenever possible. This involved strict but reasonable rules when dating, hanging out with friends, etc. And of course it went without saying that I wasn't to have sex with any woman besides my wife and soul mate, which simplified things considerably. I consider it a great blessing to be a part of a family where everybody hugs, kisses, pats each other on the back without incessantly asking for permission. I appreciate that my 3-year-old nephew can run up to me and hug my leg without me having to scold him about the rules of consent lest he become a rapist 15 years from now. YMMV. No one is saying you shouldn't accept hugs given freely from your nephew. But if you were engaged in something else, and said "not right now buddy" I assume you would also want him to respect that. All I'm saying is that in my house, a kid gets to say "not right now" too. I followed the rules growing up, I didn't establish them. It's how I learned courtesy, respect for my elders, and respect for custom and tradition. For the things that really bothered me--persistently--my parents realized that my objections were more than simple childhood phobias and they stopped applying pressure. For example, they claim I was three years old the first time I refused to go out trick-or-treating on Halloween, claiming I felt "humiliated". Although I don't remember it, I have no trouble believing it because I've never dressed up or costumed since. Likewise, I have an intense aversion to face paints, sun lotion, or any product that makes contact with my skin. I had to learn to live with applying sun lotion, but my parents eventually saw how greatly I detested things like face paints, stickers on my skin, etc., and they didn't force the issue. In short: if a phobia was intense, persistent, and tolerable, my parents tolerated it, and I plan on doing the same with my kids. For countless other issues (hundreds, easily), the phobia either wasn't intense, or it was intense but not persistent, or it was persistent but not tolerable (such as an aversion to sun lotion), and my parents forced me to do things I didn't want to do. I'm glad they did. I'd have missed out some of the best things life has to offer, including being comfortable with hugs. In any case, the idea that being required to hug relatives at a young age undermines everything that's subsequently taught about appropriate and inappropriate touch... it's absurd. Maybe if parents turn kids into huggers and then are totally remiss in teaching them about etiquette, dating guidelines, consent, etc., the kids might go too far, but i) I still have a really hard time believing rape is correlated with hugging, and ii) establishing firm guidelines and educating kids on right and wrong, permissible and forbidden, remedies the problem. That's presumably what this thread is about.
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Jun 11, 2016 17:16:58 GMT -5
We are a family of huggers. I can't imagine not hugging my relatives. It's just instinct to me. Luckily my kids aren't anti-huggers because that's completely foreign to me. I've always said "go give nanny a hug, we are leaving". I see nothing wrong with that. Nanny I hope doesn't grub him by the balls and kissed him on the lips... otherwise you would say 'we are leaving...you run, I am waiving to her and run after you, meeting outside'!
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Jun 11, 2016 17:20:07 GMT -5
We are a family of huggers. I can't imagine not hugging my relatives. It's just instinct to me. Luckily my kids aren't anti-huggers because that's completely foreign to me. I've always said "go give nanny a hug, we are leaving". I see nothing wrong with that. If they say no, do you make them? I tell my kids to go give a relative a huh, but if they don't want to, meh no biggie. I do require that they exchange polite greetings. I hated being squeezed by my creepy relatives. I welcomed hugs from gramma. Thank we aren't huggers. This just hasn't been an issue. Time for thread 'How do we stop our relatives to nasty-hug our children'
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mroped
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Post by mroped on Jun 11, 2016 17:38:44 GMT -5
Growing up I wasn't much of a hugger. Now on the other hand, hugs go to all family and friends too! Man, women, doesn't matter! Hugging time!
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mroped
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Post by mroped on Jun 11, 2016 18:10:42 GMT -5
I recommend that in order to stop anybody from committing rape, a firm punishment should be in place. I consider rape to be the most horrific thing that someone can do to another human being. To that end, I believe that a punishment such as castration- chemical or surgical- should be instituted. If one is found guilty of rape beyond reasonable doubt then castration and then incarceration for the crime.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Jun 11, 2016 18:14:14 GMT -5
Well, here we go again - me being on a different planet from everyone else.
I don't consider my kids "self-centered, timid, unwise, unconcerned with courtesy, irrational and sheltered"
I consider them people who have their own feelings, their own good and bad days, people who are learning about the world, relationships and interactions on a daily basis.
I view it as my job to teach them to be kind and courteous and polite, to allow them to discover who they are, what they like and dislike. And as part of that, I think it's important to establish a healthy balance between being kind to others while not ignoring their own comfort level.
What is so hard to understand ??
And yes, I do think that those message that we send to children from day one get ingrained in them and shape how they interact with others later. And while I don't think forcing my oldest kid to hug his grandparents when he clearly didn't want will make him a rapist, I do think that it sends a subliminal message that it's OK to use force to physically interact with another person. That is NOT a message I ever want him to get from me.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 11, 2016 18:28:39 GMT -5
They have never refused to hug our relatives. I'm nor sure what I would do if they had refused to hug my mom or one of my aunts/uncles. Oh my gawd I just typed out a whole response to her post and then clicked "back" instead of post. Can we not make the internet childproof or something? I'll start all over. So when I was a kid we would always visit relatives on a weekend in the summer each year. We would go see my great-grandparents (dad's grandparents) for lunch and everybody would hug and laugh and show off the kids, and then go to dad's uncles house for dinner. One year when we were visiting the uncles house we were all doing the hugging and greeting and he went to hug my mom, and she said very clearly "I'm not hugging you" and grabbed his arms to stop him - which was kind of like a record screeching to a halt and it got quiet for a second...then everybody but them went back to hugging and saying "hi" but it was awkward. I was probably 8 or 9 at the time, and was actually embarrassed that my mom did that - I thought she was rude to him and I didn't understand why she would be, but I knew everybody was uncomfortable afterwards and that it was kind of an insult to him. So that was forgotten and we all visited and then the "men" went downstairs, which was my dad, his uncle, and his seedy cousins who were adults around his age - and I talked my way into joining them because he had really neat stuff downstairs. So we're all looking at the indian arrowheads he found in his fields, and these signs from gas stations, and probably guns or civil war things or whatever...guy stuff you know. And we come around a corner and he clicks on a light - and there's a pinup of a topless woman like from playboy or something. BAM! So my dad's uncle kind of nudges him and says "Look at those tits...you sure you wouldn't rather go to bed with a black woman?!?" and my dad was like <cough> "what? huh? what's going on?" That's paraphrasing because it was 35 years ago, but he was basically speechless about the comment or situation. It was so freakin' surreal - wrong on so many levels like letting a little kid see porn even if it is a "classy" pinup, overt racism, sexism, etc. The first thing that hit me was why would my dad even want to see a woman naked - because at that age you don't understand sex, you just know people are only naked in their bedroom and to see somebody else naked or naked outside of their bedroom would be weird. And there is no reason for an adult to see another one naked just because...why? And then the racism of the comment hit me - to my parents credit they were un-racist growing up in a rural environment that was very racist (even when I was growing up 20-25 years later). I actually understood that part of it at the time - or at least understood that it was wrong. And then it hit me that standing there looking at the picture was wrong. Basically because your mom is the female role model in your life so that's how you perceive women - you don't have a concept of sex but you wouldn't want people to see your mom naked because it's embarrassing, so you shouldn't be looking at this mom naked. I think we left pretty quickly - I don't remember how that all went down, maybe I was in shock or maybe just not included in the discussion - actually I don't think I saw the uncle after that until his funeral. But it shaped my opinion on a lot of things very early. A lot of stuff instantly clicked even at that young age - like how men can view women, how older men can view younger women, racism - not racism like "I hate these people" but like "these people are hot/attractive/etc," how men sometimes talk to each other when women aren't around, how women can be an object - not a woman but "tits," how to talk to other men to be perceived as a man and not a kid...all this stuff. Even without understanding sex, I understood instantly why my mom didn't hug him and it all made sense. I think that actually shaped a lot of my thinking towards women today - in a positive way - by seeing such a bad example, and also seeing that my dad's reaction was shocked or "this is not ok" reinforced that reaction I had to the situation. Anyway, I don't feel uncomfortable hugging family or friends, but if somebody did - my wife or daughters for instance - I wouldn't try to force them too or anything like that. Maybe it's a vibe they get like my mom got - this person is a creeper so I don't want to be close to them. And that's a very valid point. If the creep monitor is going off then we should trust our instinct (and kids).
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Kolt!
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Post by Kolt! on Jun 11, 2016 18:47:51 GMT -5
I mean I think it's important that children aren't forced to hug everyone under the sun.
I just also think it's equally important that they DO in fact hug some people and just dont flat out refuse to NEVER hug anyone.
-- But I guess I grew up in a different kind of community. I was at a family/family friends party today and everyone was hugging everyone hello and goodbye. It's just something I guess we've always done. It's second nature from my upbringing. It also has always made me feel more welcomed into a place.
For me when someone hugs me I guess it just makes me feel like they accept me. If someone's just standing there arms crossed over themselves...it just feels less welcoming. I feel less accepted and I feel like they're stand offish.
When someone greets me with a hug I automatically feel more welcomed into that place. I know that's how a lot of my family and friends feel as well. It's a way to let someone know they're appreciated, and that they're welcomed into this environment.
If I walked into a family function and nobody was hugging anybody it'd be weird for me. I've been to parties where it's like that...and they're just less cozy and everyone's more timid and there's a lot less smiles in my experience.
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beergut
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Post by beergut on Jun 11, 2016 19:40:01 GMT -5
The current message being sent by the media and our government is that all college-age males have potential rapists lurking inside them just waiting to get out. I think this contention is ridiculous, as is the idea that if two drunk people consent to sex, it is the male's fault if the female decides afterward that she regrets it.
Modern feminism has swung so far out of whack that a woman who is equal to a man is somehow not at fault for her own actions when it comes to sex, it is all in the control of the man.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 11, 2016 20:13:18 GMT -5
The current message being sent by the media and our government is that all college-age males have potential rapists lurking inside them just waiting to get out. I think this contention is ridiculous, as is the idea that if two drunk people consent to sex, it is the male's fault if the female decides afterward that she regrets it. Modern feminism has swung so far out of whack that a woman who is equal to a man is somehow not at fault for her own actions when it comes to sex, it is all in the control of the man. Im a female and I agree with you. And I see this attitude setting women back. Feminists are fighting to get women in combat because we are just as good as men....unless we have fuck regret...then we need the men held responsible. I don't think we can have it both ways
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jun 11, 2016 20:14:37 GMT -5
I mean I think it's important that children aren't forced to hug everyone under the sun. I just also think it's equally important that they DO in fact hug some people and just dont flat out refuse to NEVER hug anyone. -- But I guess I grew up in a different kind of community. I was at a family/family friends party today and everyone was hugging everyone hello and goodbye. It's just something I guess we've always done. It's second nature from my upbringing. It also has always made me feel more welcomed into a place. For me when someone hugs me I guess it just makes me feel like they accept me. If someone's just standing there arms crossed over themselves...it just feels less welcoming. I feel less accepted and I feel like they're stand offish. When someone greets me with a hug I automatically feel more welcomed into that place. I know that's how a lot of my family and friends feel as well. It's a way to let someone know they're appreciated, and that they're welcomed into this environment. If I walked into a family function and nobody was hugging anybody it'd be weird for me. I've been to parties where it's like that...and they're just less cozy and everyone's more timid and there's a lot less smiles in my experience. I feel the same as you. My exes family weren't huggers and it seemed bizarre to me. That's just not how my family is
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quince
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Post by quince on Jun 11, 2016 20:26:01 GMT -5
I'm from a culture where hugging and even kisses on the cheek is a big thing. (Hawaii. ack.) Hugs from my brother's fiancee the first time I met her. That kind of thing. Dear lord, I hate hugs. Probably because I'm not too fond of closeness to other humans. My kids won't be forced to hug anyone. They will be encouraged to hug, and provided alternatives if they don't want to. Me giving them autonomy to choose how they show affection has nothing to do with me growing up in a cold remote family culture. (despite being Japanese. ) I do think as much as is possible it is important to respect a child's authority over their own body. I need to intervene for safety and health and hygiene, but my job is to do the best I can to be able to step back and let them take care of it- when developmentally appropriate, even if they do it poorly. (I probably shouldn't sit on my 13 year old's chest and force him to floss his teeth, for example, even if he doesn't do it every day.) I'm trying to teach them to be awesome adults, not good kids. Asserting ownership over their own bodies as adults is something I want them to be able to do.
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Jun 11, 2016 23:42:37 GMT -5
The current message being sent by the media and our government is that all college-age males have potential rapists lurking inside them just waiting to get out. I think this contention is ridiculous, as is the idea that if two drunk people consent to sex, it is the male's fault if the female decides afterward that she regrets it. Modern feminism has swung so far out of whack that a woman who is equal to a man is somehow not at fault for her own actions when it comes to sex, it is all in the control of the man. Im a female and I agree with you. And I see this attitude setting women back. Feminists are fighting to get women in combat because we are just as good as men....unless we have fuck regret...then we need the men held responsible. I don't think we can have it both ways do men ever have that? Sure if it is STD caught...otherwise...
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Jun 11, 2016 23:44:41 GMT -5
How did we ever got it downplayed from rape to hugs? Only at YM! Welcome people. We are here different and weird to the core!
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jun 12, 2016 4:48:07 GMT -5
I don't consider my kids "self-centered, timid, unwise, unconcerned with courtesy, irrational and sheltered" I consider them people who have their own feelings, their own good and bad days, people who are learning about the world, relationships and interactions on a daily basis. I view it as my job to teach them to be kind and courteous and polite, to allow them to discover who they are, what they like and dislike. And as part of that, I think it's important to establish a healthy balance between being kind to others while not ignoring their own comfort level. If your children are none of the above, you have no purpose as a parent. They're selfless, so you don't need to teach them about giving or sharing. You've apparently never corrected them for hoarding, causing harm to others, ignoring others' feelings, having an unrealistic sense of entitlement. They're bold, so you've never had to get them to step outside their comfort zone and try something new. They volunteered to go to school and flew out of your arms the first day they got there. They scarfed down any new vegetable they saw. They're wise, so there's no need to educate them. You discussed the merits of the Hegelian dialectic in 20th Century Armenian politics around the dinner table when little Andy was 6. They're courteous, so loud taking, sass, poor driving, foul language, pushing, lack of table manners, etc. aren't a problem and never were. They're completely rational. No "Everybody in my class hates me". No "There's a monster under my bed". No "I'm way too fat". No "I'm going to be a world-famous rock star". No "Ms. Grunger is out to get me". They're totally unsheltered. No G Ratings, allowances, boxed lunches, or parent-teacher interviews for them. They were out of the womb, they got hit with 18-A, taxes, 9-5 jobs, raging bosses, and cold, hard reality. I'll bet your children aren't immature either. They were born fully mature. Nor were they ever childish. In fact, we should abolish "childish" from the dictionary because of the horrible, horrible things it implies about our young people. Or... could it be that children actually are self-centered, timid, unwise, unconcerned with courtesy, irrational, sheltered, immature, and yes, childish, and that the principle responsibility of parents is to patiently, systematically teach them to become individuals who are selfless, ambitious, wise, courteous, rational, experienced, mature, and adult? Apparently not your kids, hence my hat's off to you. Mine I expect will need a bit of instruction, including instruction on valuing courtesy over personal reservations when it comes to hugging relatives. They might even learn to like it. If they subconsciously pick up the message that it's OK to elicit hugs from their relatives, I can live with that.
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Jun 12, 2016 8:47:15 GMT -5
I don't consider my kids "self-centered, timid, unwise, unconcerned with courtesy, irrational and sheltered" I consider them people who have their own feelings, their own good and bad days, people who are learning about the world, relationships and interactions on a daily basis. I view it as my job to teach them to be kind and courteous and polite, to allow them to discover who they are, what they like and dislike. And as part of that, I think it's important to establish a healthy balance between being kind to others while not ignoring their own comfort level. If your children are none of the above, you have no purpose as a parent. I'll bet your children aren't immature either. They were born fully mature. Nor were they ever childish. In fact, we should abolish "childish" from the dictionary because of the horrible, horrible things it implies about our young people. VS, isn't childish child is like watery water? Children ARE supposed to be childish - not adultish. It is weird when they are responding 'let me think about it'...
I think (I haven't looked at dictionary yet) childish is bad when applied to an adult. Not children. When adult is acting childish it is baaaaaaad. In most cases. If they are happy as children its another thing. Am I wrong?
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Virgil Showlion
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Post by Virgil Showlion on Jun 12, 2016 9:26:56 GMT -5
If your children are none of the above, you have no purpose as a parent. I'll bet your children aren't immature either. They were born fully mature. Nor were they ever childish. In fact, we should abolish "childish" from the dictionary because of the horrible, horrible things it implies about our young people. VS, isn't childish child is like watery water? Children ARE supposed to be childish - not adultish. It is weird when they are responding 'let me think about it'...
I think (I haven't looked at dictionary yet) childish is bad when applied to an adult. Not children. When adult is acting childish it is baaaaaaad. In most cases. If they are happy as children its another thing. Am I wrong?
Of course children act childishly. A child doesn't mature overnight. Is it a bad thing? It may be something parents are willing to forbear the child, but generally speaking, the parent's role is to correct, instruct, and discipline in a loving way. No even halfway successful parent starts out with the mantra "Whatever my kids will consent to is right. Whatever they won't consent to is wrong." If they do, they wind up with a slovenly 30-something with no ambition, no accomplishments, and no personality or redeeming qualities to speak of living in the basement (which unfortunately isn't all that uncommon) because he was never forced outside of his comfort zone. Part of being a parent is "I'm right; you're wrong; and you're going to do this whether you want to or not." We can disagree on whether this should pertain to hugging relatives, at least up until the point where it's established that the phobia is intense, persistent, and tolerable, as I qualified earlier.
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Jun 12, 2016 9:33:46 GMT -5
VS, isn't childish child is like watery water? Children ARE supposed to be childish - not adultish. It is weird when they are responding 'let me think about it'...
I think (I haven't looked at dictionary yet) childish is bad when applied to an adult. Not children. When adult is acting childish it is baaaaaaad. In most cases. If they are happy as children its another thing. Am I wrong?
Of course children act childishly. A child doesn't mature overnight. Is it a bad thing? It may be something parents are willing to forbear the child, but generally speaking, the parent's role is to correct, instruct, and discipline in a loving way. No even halfway successful parent starts out with the mantra "Whatever my kids will consent to is right. Whatever they won't consent to is wrong." If they do, they wind up with a slovenly 30-something with no ambition, no accomplishments, and no personality or redeeming qualities to speak of living in the basement (which unfortunately isn't all that uncommon) because he was never forced outside of his comfort zone. Part of being a parent is "I'm right; you're wrong; and you're going to do this whether you want to or not." We can disagree on whether this should pertain to hugging relatives, at least up until the point where it's established that the phobia is intense, persistent, and tolerable, as I qualified earlier. Agree. With my DD - she never wanted to do things like gymnastics for example. When I made her go - she said thanks for insisting. I didn't know its so much fun! And with everything else. They say no. But what do they know?
My parents made me to play piano because my Mom always wanted to play. I hated it from day first and came down only after piano left my house. They should had seen how much I hate it. But it was their pride and dream. If I saw in first month my DD hates something still I wouldn't drag her to it. But maybe it is because I KNEW how it feels. Thanks to my parents
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jun 12, 2016 9:42:07 GMT -5
VS, isn't childish child is like watery water? Children ARE supposed to be childish - not adultish. It is weird when they are responding 'let me think about it'...
I think (I haven't looked at dictionary yet) childish is bad when applied to an adult. Not children. When adult is acting childish it is baaaaaaad. In most cases. If they are happy as children its another thing. Am I wrong?
Of course children act childishly. A child doesn't mature overnight. Is it a bad thing? It may be something parents are willing to forbear the child, but generally speaking, the parent's role is to correct, instruct, and discipline in a loving way. No even halfway successful parent starts out with the mantra "Whatever my kids will consent to is right. Whatever they won't consent to is wrong." If they do, they wind up with a slovenly 30-something with no ambition, no accomplishments, and no personality or redeeming qualities to speak of living in the basement (which unfortunately isn't all that uncommon) because he was never forced outside of his comfort zone. Part of being a parent is "I'm right; you're wrong; and you're going to do this whether you want to or not." We can disagree on whether this should pertain to hugging relatives, at least up until the point where it's established that the phobia is intense, persistent, and tolerable, as I qualified earlier. You should be able to explain why you're right and they're wrong as well. "Because I said so" is not sufficient for any child with half a brain.
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tloonya
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Post by tloonya on Jun 12, 2016 10:16:27 GMT -5
Of course children act childishly. A child doesn't mature overnight. Is it a bad thing? It may be something parents are willing to forbear the child, but generally speaking, the parent's role is to correct, instruct, and discipline in a loving way. No even halfway successful parent starts out with the mantra "Whatever my kids will consent to is right. Whatever they won't consent to is wrong." If they do, they wind up with a slovenly 30-something with no ambition, no accomplishments, and no personality or redeeming qualities to speak of living in the basement (which unfortunately isn't all that uncommon) because he was never forced outside of his comfort zone. Part of being a parent is "I'm right; you're wrong; and you're going to do this whether you want to or not." We can disagree on whether this should pertain to hugging relatives, at least up until the point where it's established that the phobia is intense, persistent, and tolerable, as I qualified earlier. You should be able to explain why you're right and they're wrong as well. "Because I said so" is not sufficient for any child with half a brain. Because...mom is stubborn to stupidity adult who like to show you her power over you and she has no idea why she is not letting you wash your hands right now but it sure feels good to be superior to at least YOU! Lol I agree to some point. But there is not always possible to explain why not. You don't tell them Santa isn't real (well I did but don't go by me) - so there are things that kids must accept like because mom said so!
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