Here is a reason to actually know our immigrants

[weltschmerz]

The last thing we need is your criminals, your illegals and truckloads of your guns pouring into Canada.

How about all your welfare mamas moving here for better benefits?

What about those Americans who can't afford insurance clogging up our health systems?

Seniors moving here in droves so they don't have to worry about paying a king's ransom for nursing homes?

We have everything you want.

You have nothing we want.

[weltschmerz]

Apr 23, 2016 5:35:23 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

I'm sorry that you feel that way.

For many years the borders between our two countries were wide open. Many smaller crossings between Maine, New Brunswick and Quebec were not even manned, and people crossed without a thought to shop and work, visit and play. Even at the big crossings from the Atlantic to the Pacific only a drivers license for ID was needed to cross the border.  Our 9-11 changed a lot of that.

I don't agree that you have everything we want, or visa versa.  I know Canadians who vacation down here, and Americans who have summer homes up in Nova Scotia.  Irving Oil (lumber) has many business interests in Maine and northern New England.  We outfitted their corporate offices in Portsmouth.  Many families are divided by the border.  I think each country benefits from the other. 

We share the longest non-militarized border in the world.  That is a very good thing.

We can still visit each other on vacation. But completely open borders, like the EU? No.

We don't want your have-nots pouring in for our much more generous social benefits.

We're already seizing trunk-loads of hand guns and semi-automatic weapons at the borders we do check.

We don't want your gun problems.  Canada will cease to exist as we know it. Good fences make good neighbours. Thanks anyway.

[dondub]

We'll just invade and take you over when necessary.

[weltschmerz]

Apr 23, 2016 12:55:16 GMT -5 dondub said:

We'll just invade and take you over when necessary.

Of course you will.

It's what you do best. 

[dondub]

We're #1!!!

[Opti]

Apr 23, 2016 11:15:37 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Apr 23, 2016 5:35:23 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

I'm sorry that you feel that way.

For many years the borders between our two countries were wide open. Many smaller crossings between Maine, New Brunswick and Quebec were not even manned, and people crossed without a thought to shop and work, visit and play. Even at the big crossings from the Atlantic to the Pacific only a drivers license for ID was needed to cross the border.  Our 9-11 changed a lot of that.

I don't agree that you have everything we want, or visa versa.  I know Canadians who vacation down here, and Americans who have summer homes up in Nova Scotia.  Irving Oil (lumber) has many business interests in Maine and northern New England.  We outfitted their corporate offices in Portsmouth.  Many families are divided by the border.  I think each country benefits from the other. 

We share the longest non-militarized border in the world.  That is a very good thing.

We can still visit each other on vacation. But completely open borders, like the EU? No.

We don't want your have-nots pouring in for our much more generous social benefits.

We're already seizing trunk-loads of hand guns and semi-automatic weapons at the borders we do check.

We don't want your gun problems.  Canada will cease to exist as we know it. Good fences make good neighbours. Thanks anyway.

But but ... I'm a cute have-not.

[weltschmerz]

Apr 24, 2016 13:52:38 GMT -5 Opti said:

Apr 23, 2016 11:15:37 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

We can still visit each other on vacation. But completely open borders, like the EU? No.

We don't want your have-nots pouring in for our much more generous social benefits.

We're already seizing trunk-loads of hand guns and semi-automatic weapons at the borders we do check.

We don't want your gun problems.  Canada will cease to exist as we know it. Good fences make good neighbours. Thanks anyway.

But but ... I'm a cute have-not.

I'm sure you are.

However, we can't have families moving here to take advantage of our really inexpensive government-subsidized daycares and universities. Taking advantage of our generous Child Benefits.

Bringing their elderly parents here to take advantage of our really inexpensive government-subsidized nursing homes.

Canadians have been paying into it via taxes their entire lives.

"Sure, come on in! We're really rich and have money to burn!! Oh, and bring all your guns! We don't have enough gun violence!"

See the problem?

[weltschmerz]

We don't want your gun nuts, your religious fanatics and your pro-lifers mucking about in our country.

Thanks, anyway. We'll pass.

[happyhoix]

Apr 22, 2016 20:49:06 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

It is amazing to me that having a person entering Canada or the USA under false pretenses, is fine with so many people.
I do not think it is fine.

I'm not ok with it.

I just don't think he's some child molester trying to infiltrate a HS so he can prey on young girls, I think he's someone desperate to escape the shit storm that is his home country, hoping he would get a better chance if he pretended to be a teen, and I have some sympathy for refugees.  

So he got arrested, probably will get booted from the country for lying. I think that's appropriate.

But I think he's an anomaly. Of all the refugees Canada took in over the decades, he's the only one I ever heard of that tried to pull this kind of thing. People shouldn't be blowing it up into some 'immigrants are all evil and they want to prey on our kids' kind of thing.

[Value Buy]

Apr 25, 2016 6:35:40 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Apr 22, 2016 20:49:06 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

It is amazing to me that having a person entering Canada or the USA under false pretenses, is fine with so many people.
I do not think it is fine.

I'm not ok with it.

I just don't think he's some child molester trying to infiltrate a HS so he can prey on young girls, I think he's someone desperate to escape the shit storm that is his home country, hoping he would get a better chance if he pretended to be a teen, and I have some sympathy for refugees.  

So he got arrested, probably will get booted from the country for lying. I think that's appropriate.

But I think he's an anomaly. Of all the refugees Canada took in over the decades, he's the only one I ever heard of that tried to pull this kind of thing. People shouldn't be blowing it up into some 'immigrants are all evil and they want to prey on our kids' kind of thing.

The problem is we have to fully admit, we do not know who is coming here from the ME and north Africa nations.
If we as a nation can come to publicly admitting this, we can work on the proper solution to solve the issue. To say, "it's ok, most are honest people", is simply unacceptable.
I think it is so hilarious that all governments were able to sell to it's citizens that all major countries had sovereign protected borders, from the fifties through the year 2000 when in reality we all had pourous borders where anyone can come through, and not be caught for years, or even decades. We are lucky to even find the ones who come on visas and decide to just stay here. Our central government infrastructure and procedures are totally broken.

[happyhoix]

Apr 25, 2016 7:12:33 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Apr 25, 2016 6:35:40 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

I'm not ok with it.

I just don't think he's some child molester trying to infiltrate a HS so he can prey on young girls, I think he's someone desperate to escape the shit storm that is his home country, hoping he would get a better chance if he pretended to be a teen, and I have some sympathy for refugees.  

So he got arrested, probably will get booted from the country for lying. I think that's appropriate.

But I think he's an anomaly. Of all the refugees Canada took in over the decades, he's the only one I ever heard of that tried to pull this kind of thing. People shouldn't be blowing it up into some 'immigrants are all evil and they want to prey on our kids' kind of thing.

The problem is we have to fully admit, we do not know who is coming here from the ME and north Africa nations.
If we as a nation can come to publicly admitting this, we can work on the proper solution to solve the issue. To say, "it's ok, most are honest people", is simply unacceptable.
I think it is so hilarious that all governments were able to sell to it's citizens that all major countries had sovereign protected borders, from the fifties through the year 2000 when in reality we all had pourous borders where anyone can come through, and not be caught for years, or even decades. We are lucky to even find the ones who come on visas and decide to just stay here. Our central government infrastructure and procedures are totally broken.

As you point out, a lot of the illegal immigrants come here on vacation or to go to school and then just stay. Unless you're on the no-fly list, you can still come here for a visit.

We could limit that by refusing to allow anyone to visit us, for any reason. What would that to do our tourist industry, and to business in general? (I'll give you a hint, my company is owned by a European company and routinely sends Europeans over here to our facilities, and some of them stay here for a few years at a time. In the small city where I work, three of the biggest employers are European owned - and that's just my small city).

So what is the 'proper solution?' We know a small minority of the people coming here from overseas want to do us harm - what would you propose would work to keep them out while not hampering business and tourist travel?

[Value Buy]

If I had an answer for most of our country's problems, I would be running for the Presidency.
I admit I do not have all the answers.
Look at Bernie. He seems to know the problems we face, but he cannot give a coherent plan to solve them.

[djAdvocate]

Apr 25, 2016 8:29:39 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

If I had an answer for most of our country's problems, I would be running for the Presidency.
I admit I do not have all the answers.
Look at Bernie. He seems to know the problems we face, but he cannot give a coherent plan to solve them.

“We have a new type of rule now. Not one-man rule, or rule of aristocracy or plutocracy, but of small groups elevated to positions of absolute power by random pressures, and subject to political and economic factors that leave little room for decision. They are representatives of abstract forces who have reached power through surrender of self. The iron-willed dictator is a thing of the past. There will be no more Stalins, no more Hitlers. The rulers of this most insecure of all worlds are rulers by accident; inept, frightened pilots at the controls of a vast machine they cannot understand, calling in experts to tell them which buttons to push.”

-WS Burroughs

[Value Buy]

Apr 25, 2016 10:43:51 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Apr 25, 2016 8:29:39 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

If I had an answer for most of our country's problems, I would be running for the Presidency.
I admit I do not have all the answers.
Look at Bernie. He seems to know the problems we face, but he cannot give a coherent plan to solve them.

“We have a new type of rule now. Not one-man rule, or rule of aristocracy or plutocracy, but of small groups elevated to positions of absolute power by random pressures, and subject to political and economic factors that leave little room for decision. They are representatives of abstract forces who have reached power through surrender of self. The iron-willed dictator is a thing of the past. There will be no more Stalins, no more Hitlers. The rulers of this most insecure of all worlds are rulers by accident; inept, frightened pilots at the controls of a vast machine they cannot understand, calling in experts to tell them which buttons to push.”

-WS Burroughs

Describing 98% of the Democratic party insiders and 100% of the Republican insiders..

[Artemis Windsong]

This weekend was an intercultural festival at one of the malls.  There were food booths with international foods for tasting and buying the product.  Cultural dancing and fashion show.  My state is just two generations from immigrants.

I was raised by a bigot.  I have mostly overcome that wrong thinking but I do have boundaries.

[Value Buy]

Apr 25, 2016 20:18:45 GMT -5 Artemis Windsong said:

This weekend was an intercultural festival at one of the malls.  There were food booths with international foods for tasting and buying the product.  Cultural dancing and fashion show.  My state is just two generations from immigrants.

I was raised by a bigot.  I have mostly overcome that wrong thinking but I do have boundaries.

I was raised in northwest Indiana which, outside of NYC having 11 million more people than we did, could barely match our various immigrant population groups. Okay, maybe exaggerating slightly but we were a dynamic melting pot due to the steel mills and refineries.
Everyone had their own neighborhoods, probably starting through segregation, but still they all had amazing shops and restaurants catering to everyone.

[djAdvocate]

Apr 25, 2016 20:10:19 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Apr 25, 2016 10:43:51 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

“We have a new type of rule now. Not one-man rule, or rule of aristocracy or plutocracy, but of small groups elevated to positions of absolute power by random pressures, and subject to political and economic factors that leave little room for decision. They are representatives of abstract forces who have reached power through surrender of self. The iron-willed dictator is a thing of the past. There will be no more Stalins, no more Hitlers. The rulers of this most insecure of all worlds are rulers by accident; inept, frightened pilots at the controls of a vast machine they cannot understand, calling in experts to tell them which buttons to push.”

-WS Burroughs

Describing 98% of the Democratic party insiders and 100% of the Republican insiders..

i love the "inept, frightened pilots" part.  i think about it frequently.

[happyhoix]

Apr 25, 2016 23:24:37 GMT -5 djAdvocate said:

Apr 25, 2016 20:10:19 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Describing 98% of the Democratic party insiders and 100% of the Republican insiders..

i love the "inept, frightened pilots" part.  i think about it frequently.

That makes me think of Trump especially. The man blusters arrogantly, but I think that's a façade. I don't think he ever meant for this campaign to be anything more than cheap publicity for his TV show. I wonder if he hasn't purposely said some of the more crass and wrong footed things he said as a subtle attempt to sabotage his campaign. I wonder if he isn't terrified at the prospect that he might actually become the POTUS, knowing how much he doesn't know about politics, international affairs, etc. and the massive potential downside if he screws something up.

[Deleted]

Apr 21, 2016 21:32:19 GMT -5 ken a.k.a OMK said:

Apr 21, 2016 21:18:30 GMT -5 gregintenn said:

If you aren't saying that, and you aren't saying illegal immigrants are better than American citizens, what does your post mean?

You really have an imagination. I was saying I think Americans have killed more of us then immigrants have, but it's my opinion since I didn't research it. Has nothing to do with the issue of immigration. Good people are good to everyone. 

You would have to come up with the percentage killed by illegal immigrants versus the general population of citizens for that to mean any thing. The Jim Jones cult only killed 900 people,  American citizens have killed way more.  By your standard, you would of been better off in his cult because it has killed less people.

[Opti]

Apr 27, 2016 11:59:11 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

Apr 21, 2016 21:32:19 GMT -5 ken a.k.a OMK said:

You really have an imagination. I was saying I think Americans have killed more of us then immigrants have, but it's my opinion since I didn't research it. Has nothing to do with the issue of immigration. Good people are good to everyone. 

You would have to come up with the percentage killed by illegal immigrants versus the general population of citizens for that to mean any thing. The Jim Jones cult only killed 900 people,  American citizens have killed way more.  By your standard, you would of been better off in his cult because it has killed less people.

He doesn't have to come up with anything.

You are at least the second poster trying to read in stuff that isn't there. His standard? No. You are arguing against a false standard you made up. Perhaps you can post what that is since I am not privy to what your thoughts are.

Ken posted about immigrants. You posted about illegal immigrants. You might not even be talking about the same set of immigrants.

[Deleted]

Apr 27, 2016 12:48:38 GMT -5 Opti said:

Apr 27, 2016 11:59:11 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

You would have to come up with the percentage killed by illegal immigrants versus the general population of citizens for that to mean any thing. The Jim Jones cult only killed 900 people,  American citizens have killed way more.  By your standard, you would of been better off in his cult because it has killed less people.

He doesn't have to come up with anything.

You are at least the second poster trying to read in stuff that isn't there. His standard? No. You are arguing against a false standard you made up. Perhaps you can post what that is since I am not privy to what your thoughts are.

Ken posted about immigrants. You posted about illegal immigrants. You might not even be talking about the same set of immigrants.

If that's the standard, he doesn't even have to log onto the forum. He can sit on the back porch and have a beer.   Any size group or type of group is applicable when talking about being killed.  You just need to apply the percentage doing the killing.  Seemed simple enough.  That's all I applied to his group type example.

[movingforward]

Apr 24, 2016 23:13:14 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

We don't want your gun nuts, your religious fanatics and your pro-lifers mucking about in our country.

Thanks, anyway. We'll pass.

I don't want any of those things either.  Can I come - wouldn't you trade me for Virgil

[Deleted]

Apr 24, 2016 14:14:17 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Apr 24, 2016 13:52:38 GMT -5 Opti said:

But but ... I'm a cute have-not.

I'm sure you are.

However, we can't have families moving here to take advantage of our really inexpensive government-subsidized daycares and universities. Taking advantage of our generous Child Benefits.

Bringing their elderly parents here to take advantage of our really inexpensive government-subsidized nursing homes.

Canadians have been paying into it via taxes their entire lives.

"Sure, come on in! We're really rich and have money to burn!! Oh, and bring all your guns! We don't have enough gun violence!"

See the problem?

I don't see any problem. Gun toting rednecks need a comfy place to retire after working their whole lives to pay for, and support the gargantuan US military. Just don't do things that piss them off after they settle in with our wonderful neighbors to the north. They tend to shoot first, and ask questions later, when accosted. Gun problems tend to reduce in frequency, once all the problem causing citizens are eliminated.

[Opti]

Apr 27, 2016 12:58:26 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

Apr 27, 2016 12:48:38 GMT -5 Opti said:

He doesn't have to come up with anything.

You are at least the second poster trying to read in stuff that isn't there. His standard? No. You are arguing against a false standard you made up. Perhaps you can post what that is since I am not privy to what your thoughts are.

Ken posted about immigrants. You posted about illegal immigrants. You might not even be talking about the same set of immigrants.

If that's the standard, he doesn't even have to log onto the forum. He can sit on the back porch and have a beer.   Any size group or type of group is applicable when talking about being killed.  You just need to apply the percentage doing the killing.  Seemed simple enough.  That's all I applied to his group type example.

No, that's not what you did. You came up with an example that had nothing to do with his statement, to prove some idea in your head you assigned to him about immigrants killing Americans. YOU did not give percentages for who killed whom, yet you think he owes the board what you won't provide? WTE?

Truth is, you don't know the percentages. I don't know the percentages. And, the 911 pilots & muscle weren't even immigrants. They were visa holders. At this time, I know of no major terrorism attack on Americans from illegal immigrants. There are two, with legal ones. The couple in California and the Boston massacre brothers.

In light of the above, I guess your Jim Jones argument shows Americans do kill each other more than illegal immigrants.

[Deleted]

Apr 27, 2016 13:21:40 GMT -5 Opti said:

Apr 27, 2016 12:58:26 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

If that's the standard, he doesn't even have to log onto the forum. He can sit on the back porch and have a beer.   Any size group or type of group is applicable when talking about being killed.  You just need to apply the percentage doing the killing.  Seemed simple enough.  That's all I applied to his group type example.

No, that's not what you did. You came up with an example that had nothing to do with his statement, to prove some idea in your head you assigned to him about immigrants killing Americans. YOU did not give percentages for who killed whom, yet you think he owes the board what you won't provide? WTE?

Truth is, you don't know the percentages. I don't know the percentages. And, the 911 pilots & muscle weren't even immigrants. They were visa holders. At this time, I know of no major terrorism attack on Americans from illegal immigrants. There are two, with legal ones. The couple in California and the Boston massacre brothers.

In light of the above, I guess your Jim Jones argument shows Americans do kill each other more than illegal immigrants.

So 100% of Americans self eliminated ? Edit;   You are going to tell me what idea I need to prove in my head ?   Percentage of a certain group that will kill is really not that hard of a concept.  Saying a total number from a small group is the same as a number from a very large group is misleading.

[Opti]

Apr 27, 2016 13:25:09 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

Apr 27, 2016 13:21:40 GMT -5 Opti said:

No, that's not what you did. You came up with an example that had nothing to do with his statement, to prove some idea in your head you assigned to him about immigrants killing Americans. YOU did not give percentages for who killed whom, yet you think he owes the board what you won't provide? WTE?

Truth is, you don't know the percentages. I don't know the percentages. And, the 911 pilots & muscle weren't even immigrants. They were visa holders. At this time, I know of no major terrorism attack on Americans from illegal immigrants. There are two, with legal ones. The couple in California and the Boston massacre brothers.

In light of the above, I guess your Jim Jones argument shows Americans do kill each other more than illegal immigrants.

So 100% of Americans self eliminated ?

From the outside, it feels like you are arguing another position back and forth in your head, and then posting the last argument regular Diogenes used against opposite Diogenes.

[Deleted]

Apr 27, 2016 13:34:37 GMT -5 Opti said:

Apr 27, 2016 13:25:09 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

So 100% of Americans self eliminated ?

From the outside, it feels like you are arguing another position back and forth in your head, and then posting the last argument regular Diogenes used against opposite Diogenes.

I edited that post.

[weltschmerz]

Apr 27, 2016 13:02:20 GMT -5 movingforward said:

Apr 24, 2016 23:13:14 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

We don't want your gun nuts, your religious fanatics and your pro-lifers mucking about in our country.

Thanks, anyway. We'll pass.

I don't want any of those things either.  Can I come - wouldn't you trade me for Virgil

In a heartbeat!

[Opti]

Apr 27, 2016 13:36:04 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

Apr 27, 2016 13:34:37 GMT -5 Opti said:

From the outside, it feels like you are arguing another position back and forth in your head, and then posting the last argument regular Diogenes used against opposite Diogenes.

I edited that post.

It still seems scattered and not following logically from what I posted.

[Opti]

Apr 24, 2016 14:14:17 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Apr 24, 2016 13:52:38 GMT -5 Opti said:

But but ... I'm a cute have-not.

I'm sure you are.

However, we can't have families moving here to take advantage of our really inexpensive government-subsidized daycares and universities. Taking advantage of our generous Child Benefits.

Bringing their elderly parents here to take advantage of our really inexpensive government-subsidized nursing homes.

Canadians have been paying into it via taxes their entire lives.

"Sure, come on in! We're really rich and have money to burn!! Oh, and bring all your guns! We don't have enough gun violence!"

See the problem?

I know there are issues. I was just kidding you a little. I am single, gun free, and cute. Since Moving is swapping with Virgil, maybe I can be swapped with someone else.