Here is a reason to actually know our immigrants

[gregintenn]

Apr 21, 2016 21:33:22 GMT -5 @hickle said:

Apr 21, 2016 21:23:58 GMT -5 gregintenn said:

I understand where you're coming from, but what would that look like. Anarchy? One World Government?

Would you be cool with Chiver and I coming over and tromping through your home without your knowledge or consent?

Private property rights are different from government laws.

You'd have to elaborate on that a bit for me to see the distinction.

Your home is yours. This country is mine and yours. It doesn't belong to Muhammad or Pedro swimming across the Rio Grande. I believe they are both worth protecting.

[ken a.k.a OMK]

I know we need a way to insure the immigrants are safe to enter our country. I don't know how to do that or how long it should take. I also know some people who are here by birth that scare me. We all came from immigrants and should remember that. Being born here gave us a privilege we should not take for granted. 

[Deleted]

Apr 21, 2016 21:35:14 GMT -5 gregintenn said:

Apr 21, 2016 21:33:22 GMT -5 @hickle said:

Private property rights are different from government laws.

You'd have to elaborate on that a bit for me to see the distinction.

Your home is yours. This country is mine and yours. It doesn't belong to Muhammad or Pedro swimming across the Rio Grande. I believe they are both worth protecting.

I believe it belongs to Muhammed or Pedro if they want to come here. I think they have as much right to it as I do. It is an accident of birth that I am here. If there is a life after this I want to be able to do for my family then,  what I think they want to do for theirs now. If that means taking some minimum risks with terrorists then okay.

[chiver78]

Apr 21, 2016 21:30:18 GMT -5 gregintenn said:

Apr 21, 2016 21:26:55 GMT -5 chiver78 said:

I'll choose welcoming immigrant neighbors who are productive members of society, even if it means adding to the list of potential criminals and terrorists. this country was built on immigrants, and it won't continue to survive without more.

I'm good with that after the proper vetting process. We've a way to legally become a citizen here. One could make the argument it needs a bit of tweaking.

It's the ILLEGAL immigrant I have a problem with. This is an invasion and a violation of our law.

what is interesting here is that you and I are in complete agreement with the post of yours that I've quoted here. where I feel that you're missing the mark is that in previous posts, you are painting an entire group of people with a wide brush that you don't wield here in this quoted post. (see my prior post in this thread about a British family with a valid visa who was turned away from a flight to the US b/c they had an Arabic family name and was later discovered to be Muslim)

what might surprise you, since you haven't been here all that long and we tend to butt heads on things - I am the daughter of a legal immigrant, my father still does and always has carried a valid green card. I have been called such vile things as an anchor baby in political discussion with ignorant people, while nothing could be further from the truth.  what might surprise you is that I am probably one of the most conservative people on this board when it comes to immgration - LEGAL immigration. and in regards to this particular thread, LEGAL immigration involves following the procedures that the US has set forth. yes, those are flawed. yes, those allow undiscovered terrorists to come in. but that doesn't preclude terrorists born/converted here from doing harm.....while it does prevent good, hardworking people from coming here and building a life like my father also legally did. I don't and will never agree with something that prevents the latter.

[Deleted]

How are vetted refugees illegal immigrants?

[chiver78]

Apr 21, 2016 21:38:42 GMT -5 ken a.k.a OMK said:

I know we need a way to insure the immigrants are safe to enter our country. I don't know how to do that or how long it should take. I also know some people who are here by birth that scare me. We all came from immigrants and should remember that. Being born here gave us a privilege we should not take for granted. 

I wish we had a "love" button like FB does now.

[ken a.k.a OMK]

chiver78 hey we need to keep that secret.       

[Deleted]

for the record, i have little to no problem with illegal immigration, as long as the non aggression principle is followed.

[mroped]

If all immigrants HAVE to come here on a legal path, what happens to those that are forced by things beyond their control to leave their country and have no other alternative than to seek asylum?
IE: Chinese individual speaks against the government, against their ways of controlling the economy, poverty, etc. Chinese government keeps close tabs on the individual and even interferes with him applying for a legal entry or residency in another country- US for this argument. Somehow, embarking illegaly on a ship(in a container to be more exact) becomes possible and the individual ends up in US where he seeks asylum.
Technicaly, he is an illegal immigrant but once on US soil he has the same rights as any citizen except voting. 
What then? Are we to condemn this individual for seeking a beter life, for a place where he doesn't have to look over his shoulder every time he turns a corner.
Violence or destruction has never been on this individual's mind but acording to some he shouldn't be here because what if...?

Put yourself into their shoes and try to figure what would you do if you would be in their place? How would you feel if someone told you that you can't stay because they don't feel confortable?
Does anyone think that is easy to uproot yourself and move half way across the world and start from scratch? No friends, no family, nothing! I'm not even gonna mention the language barrier or the differences in customs, traditions and so on.

But yeah, go ahead and feel uneasy! That piece of paper that equates with Made in USA gives you the right to that!

[ken a.k.a OMK]

For the record, illegal immigrants who have lived here, work here and are paying taxes, raising children should have a quick method of citizenship. Children born here, educated here, working and paying taxes should be citizens. Let's differentiate between unwanted and productive immigrants. 

[weltschmerz]

Apr 21, 2016 21:14:59 GMT -5 @hickle said:

Apr 21, 2016 21:09:59 GMT -5 gregintenn said:

So just open the gates and let them in? Great logic!

The closer we get to open borders the freer we are. . Big government is wrong and government telling people where they can and cannot live is big government.  Don't hate on freedom. Our rights are given to us by our creator, not by government. Government only denies them or protects them.

Open borders? Between Canada and the US?

Not just no, but HELL NO!!!

[mroped]

Ok then, let's ask the question a diferent way:
How many of the illegal immigrants wish/want to stay illegal?

[Shooby]

Who doesn't want their 14 yr old daughters in school with 30 yr old men?  And, how is the Obama adminstration vetting refuges in our country when we don't even know when or where they were born, the most basic of information?  Then again, Obama took his sweet time with his birth certificate but I was unable to even sign up my 5 yr old for soccer without hers.  Funny how the laws and rules apply to some and not others.

[happyhoix]

Apr 22, 2016 6:54:26 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Who doesn't want their 14 yr old daughters in school with 30 yr old men?  And, how is the Obama adminstration vetting refuges in our country when we don't even know when or where they were born, the most basic of information?  Then again, Obama took his sweet time with his birth certificate but I was unable to even sign up my 5 yr old for soccer without hers.  Funny how the laws and rules apply to some and not others.

So say that you're from Sudan and 2 million of your fellow countrymen have died from civil war or famine since 1983 and some 200,000 have been taken into slavery during the second Sudatan Civil War. You take what you can carry and flee across the border to a crowded refugee camp to try to find a better life for yourself.

What are the chances you took a copy of your birth certificate with you when you left? Or the chances that the hospital that stored it is still standing or still functioning as a hospital - or that the records are still intact?

Should Canada refuse entry to every refugee who isn't carrying certified documents - knowing what a crap fest Sudan is right now?

I think in the immigration discussion we tend to forget that some of these people are refugees, and what it means to be a refugee. It's been a long time since we had famines, civil wars and slavery in this country.

[swamp]

Apr 22, 2016 5:36:43 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

I know you're kidding Welts, (or I think you are ) but we used to have open borders with Canada. I really miss that. The people that live along the border REALLY miss that.  For them it is a major PITA.

I miss it.

[Deleted]

Apr 21, 2016 23:28:23 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Apr 21, 2016 21:14:59 GMT -5 @hickle said:

The closer we get to open borders the freer we are. . Big government is wrong and government telling people where they can and cannot live is big government.  Don't hate on freedom. Our rights are given to us by our creator, not by government. Government only denies them or protects them.

Open borders? Between Canada and the US?

Not just no, but HELL NO!!!

Gun toting US citizens are already freely moving over the border with their off road vehicles sagging with the weight of all the guns loaded in the back.  We hear it's easy pick'ins with the mostly disarmed society that lives over our northern border.  BWUUUUHAHAHAHAHAHA !   

[gregintenn]

Apr 22, 2016 11:59:14 GMT -5 @jma23 said:

Apr 21, 2016 23:28:23 GMT -5 weltschmerz said:

Open borders? Between Canada and the US?

Not just no, but HELL NO!!!

Gun toting US citizens are already freely moving over the border with their off road vehicles sagging with the weight of all the guns loaded in the back.  We hear it's easy pick'ins with the mostly disarmed society that lives over our northern border.  BWUUUUHAHAHAHAHAHA !   

They're liable to bring some bibles with them too!!!

[Tennesseer]

Apr 22, 2016 11:10:38 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

Apr 22, 2016 6:54:26 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Who doesn't want their 14 yr old daughters in school with 30 yr old men?  And, how is the Obama adminstration vetting refuges in our country when we don't even know when or where they were born, the most basic of information?  Then again, Obama took his sweet time with his birth certificate but I was unable to even sign up my 5 yr old for soccer without hers.  Funny how the laws and rules apply to some and not others.

So say that you're from Sudan and 2 million of your fellow countrymen have died from civil war or famine since 1983 and some 200,000 have been taken into slavery during the second Sudatan Civil War. You take what you can carry and flee across the border to a crowded refugee camp to try to find a better life for yourself.

What are the chances you took a copy of your birth certificate with you when you left? Or the chances that the hospital that stored it is still standing or still functioning as a hospital - or that the records are still intact?

Should Canada refuse entry to every refugee who isn't carrying certified documents - knowing what a crap fest Sudan is right now?

I think in the immigration discussion we tend to forget that some of these people are refugees, and what it means to be a refugee. It's been a long time since we had famines, civil wars and slavery in this country.

You should expect a "Tough taters" reply to your question.

[djAdvocate]

Apr 21, 2016 21:32:19 GMT -5 ken a.k.a OMK said:

Apr 21, 2016 21:18:30 GMT -5 gregintenn said:

If you aren't saying that, and you aren't saying illegal immigrants are better than American citizens, what does your post mean?

You really have an imagination. I was saying I think Americans have killed more of us then immigrants have, but it's my opinion since I didn't research it. Has nothing to do with the issue of immigration.

oh thank goodness.  i thought it was just me. 

[billisonboard]

Apr 22, 2016 6:54:26 GMT -5 Shooby said:

... Then again, Obama took his sweet time with his birth certificate but I was unable to even sign up my 5 yr old for soccer without hers.  Funny how the laws and rules apply to some and not others.

Obama took his sweet time when he was signing up for soccer? You can't be comparing it to him running for president because there is no law or rule that a candidate must publish their birth certificate.

[djAdvocate]

Apr 22, 2016 16:15:56 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Apr 22, 2016 11:10:38 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

So say that you're from Sudan and 2 million of your fellow countrymen have died from civil war or famine since 1983 and some 200,000 have been taken into slavery during the second Sudatan Civil War. You take what you can carry and flee across the border to a crowded refugee camp to try to find a better life for yourself.

What are the chances you took a copy of your birth certificate with you when you left? Or the chances that the hospital that stored it is still standing or still functioning as a hospital - or that the records are still intact?

Should Canada refuse entry to every refugee who isn't carrying certified documents - knowing what a crap fest Sudan is right now?

I think in the immigration discussion we tend to forget that some of these people are refugees, and what it means to be a refugee. It's been a long time since we had famines, civil wars and slavery in this country.

You should expect a "Tough taters" reply to your question.

or, as Bad Religion once put it "hooray for me, and f(*k you"

[djAdvocate]

Apr 22, 2016 6:54:26 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Who doesn't want their 14 yr old daughters in school with 30 yr old men?  And, how is the Obama adminstration vetting refuges in our country when we don't even know when or where they were born, the most basic of information? 

setnum = 0

[Value Buy]

Apr 22, 2016 16:15:56 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

Apr 22, 2016 11:10:38 GMT -5 happyhoix said:

So say that you're from Sudan and 2 million of your fellow countrymen have died from civil war or famine since 1983 and some 200,000 have been taken into slavery during the second Sudatan Civil War. You take what you can carry and flee across the border to a crowded refugee camp to try to find a better life for yourself.

What are the chances you took a copy of your birth certificate with you when you left? Or the chances that the hospital that stored it is still standing or still functioning as a hospital - or that the records are still intact?

Should Canada refuse entry to every refugee who isn't carrying certified documents - knowing what a crap fest Sudan is right now?

I think in the immigration discussion we tend to forget that some of these people are refugees, and what it means to be a refugee. It's been a long time since we had famines, civil wars and slavery in this country.

You should expect a "Tough taters" reply to your question.

If he lied and is 30 years old, maybe he should have picked up an AK47 and defended the homeland. Instead of running like a scared jack rabbit fight for your home.
Another reason to have a well armed citizenry.

[Value Buy]

It is amazing to me that having a person entering Canada or the USA under false pretenses, is fine with so many people.
I do not think it is fine.

[Tennesseer]

Apr 22, 2016 20:47:23 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

Apr 22, 2016 16:15:56 GMT -5 Tennesseer said:

You should expect a "Tough taters" reply to your question.

If he lied and is 30 years old, maybe he should have picked up an AK47 and defended the homeland. Instead of running like a scared jack rabbit fight for your home.
Another reason to have a well armed citizenry.

And maybe if they had AK47s available to them, he just might have fought for the homeland. I doubt there are any Bass Pro Shops where this guy came from.

[Opti]

Apr 22, 2016 20:49:06 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

It is amazing to me that having a person entering Canada or the USA under false pretenses, is fine with so many people.
I do not think it is fine.

I think you aren't seeing the big picture. Posters who disagree with you aren't saying its great if people entering Canada or the US lie about who they are. Some of us are just less concerned with the potential issues in this particular instance.

Should Canada be educating 30 year olds from other countries with a free HS educations? No. They arrested him. It doesn't sound like a epidemic or a sign of the apocalypse.

[OldCoyote]

Apr 21, 2016 16:40:39 GMT -5 ken a.k.a OMK said:

I'd like to know more about American citizens. The ones with illegal guns committing crimes. They scare me more. 

They are called criminals!  If they have illegal guns just arrest them.

[djAdvocate]

Apr 22, 2016 20:49:06 GMT -5 Value Buy said:

It is amazing to me that having a person entering Canada or the USA under false pretenses, is fine with so many people.
I do not think it is fine.

just out of curiosity, who said it was fine?

[Opti]

Apr 22, 2016 6:54:26 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Who doesn't want their 14 yr old daughters in school with 30 yr old men?  And, how is the Obama adminstration vetting refuges in our country when we don't even know when or where they were born, the most basic of information?  Then again, Obama took his sweet time with his birth certificate but I was unable to even sign up my 5 yr old for soccer without hers.  Funny how the laws and rules unrelated rules and double standards apply to some and not others.

Funny, but not in a hahahaha way.

So when is Trump publishing his birth certificate? Where's all the images of Cruz's birth certificate so we can whine about how it was scanned in and pretend various layers map to nefarious intentions.

Not sure what that has to do with your child playing soccer. Did you need to publish it on the internet after you used it to sign up for soccer? Did parents complain your child wasn't legit because they couldn't read his birth certificate on FB? How irresponsible! How are they going to have proof he's not 7, 13 or even 17 years old.

[weltschmerz]

Apr 22, 2016 5:36:43 GMT -5 deminmaine said:

I know you're kidding Welts, (or I think you are ) but we used to have open borders with Canada. I really miss that. The people that live along the border REALLY miss that.  For them it is a major PITA.

I'm not kidding at all. I think open borders with Canada is a terrible idea.