kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Apr 8, 2016 15:42:24 GMT -5
I assume the trust is or will in the future (once the house and business are sold or converted to cash) get funded since the OP said......"everything is going into the trust". Based on this statement I dont believe anything passed by beneficiary designations or by joint ownership. And I know without seeing the trust and regardless of how crappy the drafting job, that the trust provides for the care, comfort, support, etc, etc, of the OP for LIFE. There is nothing posted by OP to indicate that the terms of the trust are not being followed by the trustee or the children. It is the OP that is asking for the trust to be violated by wanting the trustee to give her the painting, which I assume has value and is a trust asset. My view of this entire situation is colored by OP wanting to be given the painting outright rather than enjoy her right to have it for "life". That tells me there is something else going on here. Yes, I know the OP is posting for support and sympathy.........BUT the real issues here are all about money, the law, and the rights and obligations of the trustee and the beneficiaries. I have read nothing here that the OP is being treated contrary to what the documents provide. In spite of how people react to these issues it is not about.....FEELINGS. I assume she had an attorney at the time of signing the pre-nup, most people do. You are overlooking one important thing: she has stated her prenup addressed DIVORCE.
She is not divorced; she is widowed. She was his lawful wife when he died unexpectedly/untimely.
BIG difference.
The prenup is void UNLESS it happened to address issues of inheritance or support not covered by the Will. And she has not said anything about that.
At best, speculation here is fraught with filling-a-void-of-information with assumptions and conjecture.
And as a Trustee myself, I can assure you that absent written instructions otherwise (which again: we don't know), there is NOTHING wrong or in violation of a Trust in negotiating assets with beneficiaries. It's done all the time.
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whoami
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Post by whoami on Apr 8, 2016 15:48:42 GMT -5
I assume the trust is or will in the future (once the house and business are sold or converted to cash) get funded since the OP said......"everything is going into the trust". Based on this statement I dont believe anything passed by beneficiary designations or by joint ownership. And I know without seeing the trust and regardless of how crappy the drafting job, that the trust provides for the care, comfort, support, etc, etc, of the OP for LIFE. There is nothing posted by OP to indicate that the terms of the trust are not being followed by the trustee or the children. It is the OP that is asking for the trust to be violated by wanting the trustee to give her the painting, which I assume has value and is a trust asset. My view of this entire situation is colored by OP wanting to be given the painting outright rather than enjoy her right to have it for "life". That tells me there is something else going on here. Yes, I know the OP is posting for support and sympathy.........BUT the real issues here are all about money, the law, and the rights and obligations of the trustee and the beneficiaries. I have read nothing here that the OP is being treated contrary to what the documents provide. In spite of how people react to these issues it is not about.....FEELINGS. I assume she had an attorney at the time of signing the pre-nup, most people do. You are overlooking one important thing: she has stated her prenup addressed DIVORCE.
She is not divorced; she is widowed. She was his lawful wife when he died unexpectedly/untimely.
BIG difference.
The prenup is void UNLESS it happened to address issues of inheritance or support not covered by the Will. And she has not said anything about that.
At best, speculation here is fraught with filling-a-void-of-information with assumptions and conjecture.
And as a Trustee myself, I can assure you that absent written instructions otherwise (which again: we don't know), there is NOTHING wrong or in violation of a Trust in negotiating assets with beneficiaries. It's done all the time.
Yeah I don't get the constant harping on the prenup either. DH and I have a prenup which among other things, involves a pension if we divorce. Has absolutely positively nothing to do with a death or our will or trust or anything other than a divorce.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2016 15:49:59 GMT -5
OH, ok, I see from the above that the trust was set up in 2013, two years before the marriage, so the duration of the marriage was about one year. I strongly doubt that this situation is the "mess" or "clusterf*ck" that people think it is in this thread. I personally dont see any big "mess" other than the fact that OP does not like the fact that she can not access various of her husbands assets to the extent she wants to immediately, rather than being supported for life by the trust. Obviously, I dont personally see anything here that is even close to "no good deed goes unpunished". Yes, not a popular view, with all the ladies that are posting in this thread, I am sure. But that is my personal view based on the limited and one sided information that we have here. I think the "no good deed goes unpunished" is because she felt like if she's ok with the jewelry being given to the "kids", it would be nice if she received the same treatment in regards to the painting. That's what I think it's about anyway, zib can clarify for herself if she wants to.
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justme
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Post by justme on Apr 8, 2016 16:20:14 GMT -5
OH, ok, I see from the above that the trust was set up in 2013, two years before the marriage, so the duration of the marriage was about one year. I strongly doubt that this situation is the "mess" or "clusterf*ck" that people think it is in this thread. I personally dont see any big "mess" other than the fact that OP does not like the fact that she can not access various of her husbands assets to the extent she wants to immediately, rather than being supported for life by the trust. Obviously, I dont personally see anything here that is even close to "no good deed goes unpunished". Yes, not a popular view, with all the ladies that are posting in this thread, I am sure. But that is my personal view based on the limited and one sided information that we have here. This seems to be your first thread you've read on the subject. Those of us calling it a clusterfuck have been reading since this mess started, and really it is. And while the thread is speaking of something else, in some ways the wedding was a good deed. Not to say she didn't love him or ANYTHING like that, but he was the one pushing for marriage and she spent their entire marriage caring for him as he was very sick and while he told her how he'd make sure she was taken care of for the rest of her days with the way this trust is it's making her life difficult. Especially because he could have fixed it but he seemed to think he had all the time in the world to do that, which he unfortunately didn't. Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
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CCL
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Post by CCL on Apr 8, 2016 16:52:34 GMT -5
On the one hand, dealing with this helped a lot during the grieving process. I'll always miss him and our life together but ending so badly has made me think more and grieve less. I'm so sorry that you are going through all of this. What a difficult time made so much worse by all the conflict. Your thread prompted me to have this conversation with DH last night about just this thing; He has a pension that he claimed after his divorce from ex, so her name was never on that paperwork; He has a life insurance policy through his last place of employment....he BELIEVES his ex is off of that, he TOLD them to remove her (been divorced almost 10 years) BUT he contacted them to sort out some insurance issues with his youngest child (who has been on his insurance for 21 years...but they managed to leave him off this last year)...and found out that his ex was STILL on his health insurance policy. He was not required to cover her at all because miraculously she found a job the day he said he was divorcing her. So I suggested that he contact them on Monday (out of town right now) and MAKE SURE she is NOT ON his life insurance policy!! She already has 1/3 of his pension (refused to work during marriage/almost bankrupted him/told him she absolutely wanted nothing from his in the divorce/grabbed the pension as soon as she could) and she would NEVER let go of that money if it came to her even by mistake. SO yeah, he's going to be on the phone on Monday making sure she's completely out of the picture as she was supposed to be 10 years ago. We do have wills that leave everything to each other, other than specific items (land/tools/jewelry etc) to our respective children and MY children know that they need to be involved right away if anything happens to us because his children might very well loot the house immediately upon being notified that he/I have passed. It could very well turn into a CF so I feel anxious about it knowing what you've been dealing with all of these years. Again, sorry that you were placed in this situation and I hope you and your attorneys can sort it out so that you get what you were promised. While I know it was not your intention, thank you for making me take a long look at my own situation. Fidelity lets us manage everything over the website. You might look into that option with your benefits administrator. I check everything periodically to verify it's all still correct.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 8, 2016 17:12:28 GMT -5
It's always a good thing when someone learns from another's mistake. Yes, I'm sure if I want the painting that no one else wants, I'll be expected to buy it. Perhaps that's fair. Of course I should have made sure the jewelry was purchased as well but that's not what DH wanted so I didn't do it. Depending on how the painting gets valued, will determine whether I buy it from estate or not. Funny enough, I'll leave it, if I get it, to bio daughters husband.
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Apr 8, 2016 18:48:38 GMT -5
No DH again, ever. I refuse to let my heart be destroyed again. This one almost killed me. I am so sorry, Zib.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 8, 2016 18:51:02 GMT -5
So am I.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Apr 9, 2016 9:27:47 GMT -5
I thought "no good deed goes unpunished" meant that Zib took care of her very sick DH for most of their marriage and now has found out the things he promised BEFORE he got sick are not actually in place legally/on paper.
I watched my grandmother take care of my grandfather in his final months. That is not something I would wish on my worst enemy. Of course my grandmother did it out of a sense of love/duty to her husband but it's still not a task for the faint hearted.
If it was discovered my grandfather then didn't provide for my grandma after his death, IMO that would be a slap in the face.
It shouldn't be measured in how long they were married or the fact that Zib didn't intially want to get married. I am not sure why they should be a factor in anything. I don't see where she is after anything of the bio children's or the ex, so I am not sure where the gold digger accusations come from.
She just wants what she was promised long before DH got sick. Instead of making sure it was put down in paper he seems to have assumed that people would honor his word or maybe he felt he had the time to get around to putting it down on paper but didn't.
I'd like to think he didn't do it on purpose.
My parents dealt with a mess when my grandmother died. Lucky for my mother she is an only child so that solved a lot of the headaches. It's a slap in the face when someone leaves you to deal with things they could have very easily taken care of BEFORE they died.
My grandma's estate was upside down so it's not like I had anything to be pissed off about in regards to "getting something". I was pissed off at the mess she left my parents to deal with. It took them years to get it all sorted out.
It could have taken my grandmother a couple of hours with a lawyer while she was alive but she didn't want to do that because she felt that if she did my mother would stick her in a home and take all her stuff/money.
Even if you don't agree with Zib, this is a good reminder to people to make sure your affairs are in order before death. If you want X to go to someone make sure it's on paper somewhere. Don't assume that people will honor your word once you're gone.
I've been having that discussion with DH. His dad has verbally promised him the house when they die. I said it needs to be on paper somewhere otherwise it doesn't mean anything. I would not count on his siblings handing over their shares in the house because "dad would have wanted it". Dad is dead which means all bets are off.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 9, 2016 9:46:00 GMT -5
I thought "no good deed goes unpunished" meant that Zib took care of her very sick DH for most of their marriage and now has found out the things he promised BEFORE he got sick are not actually in place legally/on paper. I watched my grandmother take care of my grandfather in his final months. That is not something I would wish on my worst enemy. Of course my grandmother did it out of a sense of love/duty to her husband but it's still not a task for the faint hearted. If it was discovered my grandfather then didn't provide for my grandma after his death, IMO that would be a slap in the face. It shouldn't be measured in how long they were married or the fact that Zib didn't intially want to get married. I am not sure why they should be a factor in anything. I don't see where she is after anything of the bio children's or the ex, so I am not sure where the gold digger accusations come from. She just wants what she was promised long before DH got sick. Instead of making sure it was put down in paper he seems to have assumed that people would honor his word or maybe he felt he had the time to get around to putting it down on paper but didn't. I'd like to think he didn't do it on purpose. My parents dealt with a mess when my grandmother died. Lucky for my mother she is an only child so that solved a lot of the headaches. It's a slap in the face when someone leaves you to deal with things they could have very easily taken care of BEFORE they died. My grandma's estate was upside down so it's not like I had anything to be pissed off about in regards to "getting something". I was pissed off at the mess she left my parents to deal with. It took them years to get it all sorted out. It could have taken my grandmother a couple of hours with a lawyer while she was alive but she didn't want to do that because she felt that if she did my mother would stick her in a home and take all her stuff/money. Even if you don't agree with Zib, this is a good reminder to people to make sure your affairs are in order before death. If you want X to go to someone make sure it's on paper somewhere. Don't assume that people will honor your word once you're gone. I've been having that discussion with DH. His dad has verbally promised him the house when they die. I said it needs to be on paper somewhere otherwise it doesn't mean anything. I would not count on his siblings handing over their shares in the house because "dad would have wanted it". Dad is dead which means all bets are off. Absolutely. I honored DH's wishes by giving the stuff he wanted the kids to have even though he left nothing but verbal wishes. I didn't have to.
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Works4me
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Post by Works4me on Apr 9, 2016 16:51:33 GMT -5
Zib - kudos to you for doing the right thing and seeing that your late DH's wishes are honored. It takes a lot of integrity to do the right thing in a situation like you are in. When one person chooses to marry another, that decision needs to be respected and honored.
Until a person has provided care for another person, 24/7/365, even with hired help, there is just no understanding of the exhaustion, fatigue and burn out involved.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 9, 2016 17:19:36 GMT -5
Blonde Granny, Mmhmm, and others do know. I was so exhausted the only way out with any dignity seemed to be an "accidental" death of myself. That's how bad I got. My grandma basically did it to herself to get rid of caring for my grandfather because she wouldn't put him in a nursing home where he belonged.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 9, 2016 17:20:10 GMT -5
DH never lost his mind, thank GOD
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Nazgul Girl
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Post by Nazgul Girl on Nov 30, 2016 0:20:39 GMT -5
Hello from the future ( small joke - meaning that I haven't been on the board in forever ). Hey Zib, I'm very sorry to read of your DH's death and your subsequent difficulties with the trust. Love you forever and hope that things are going well, or at least better, for you now. I'll post an update at a future time but right now many changes in our lives, and keeping us on our toes. Hugs. Naz.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Nov 30, 2016 5:36:53 GMT -5
I'm glad you're back. I'm sorry we didn't get together before all hell broke loose in my life.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2016 7:40:06 GMT -5
Blonde Granny, Mmhmm, and others do know. I was so exhausted the only way out with any dignity seemed to be an "accidental" death of myself. That's how bad I got. My grandma basically did it to herself to get rid of caring for my grandfather because she wouldn't put him in a nursing home where he belonged. That's really sad. I have an aunt who just put her husband in a nursing home after nearly two decades of a slow descent into Alzheimer's. (Mom told me that before my Grandma, his mother, died in 1997 she said, "Something's not right with Kenny".) I don't know how she survived. She did end up with colon cancer but it was apparently treated successfully. It's one of the reasons I couldn't whine about my situation with DH. We had 13 years of a wonderful marriage, his slide downhill was swift and he was sweet and mellow to the end. I'm also not getting married again- not for the same reasons as Zib, but just because I don't want the legal entanglements of marriage again and I sure don't want to be "a nurse or a purse" for someone. If I married someone near my age (63) the "nurse" part could happen sooner rather than later.
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naughtybear
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Post by naughtybear on Nov 30, 2016 8:06:28 GMT -5
She already has 1/3 of his pension (refused to work during marriage/almost bankrupted him/told him she absolutely wanted nothing from his in the divorce/grabbed the pension as soon as she could)
This is why I have a dislike of people. Ok its not the only reason but it seems we only want to hear what we want. I really hope that is not ALL my ex says about me. Absolutely no-one knows what exactly goes on a marriage and why it broke down. I have met a few men that absolutely just rake the ex's over the coals and it is just horrible. My ex was a generous, kind, giving man. I reliably don't trust anyone that has bad words to say about an ex. Remarkably thinking back the people I do know I like and respect those that are kind of word. You loved them at one point, you married them for a reason (or dated) they rarely turn into monsters just because.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2016 8:27:18 GMT -5
She already has 1/3 of his pension (refused to work during marriage/almost bankrupted him/told him she absolutely wanted nothing from his in the divorce/grabbed the pension as soon as she could)
This is why I have a dislike of people. Ok its not the only reason but it seems we only want to hear what we want. I really hope that is not ALL my ex says about me. Absolutely no-one knows what exactly goes on a marriage and why it broke down. I have met a few men that absolutely just rake the ex's over the coals and it is just horrible. My ex was a generous, kind, giving man. I reliably don't trust anyone that has bad words to say about an ex. Remarkably thinking back the people I do know I like and respect those that are kind of word. You loved them at one point, you married them for a reason (or dated) they rarely turn into monsters just because. No. But people do change (or reveal their true selves). I know I am not the same person I was 20 years ago. Not by a long shot. There's a reason they say the person you divorce is not the person you married. Otherwise why would you divorce in the first place?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2016 14:49:44 GMT -5
I reliably don't trust anyone that has bad words to say about an ex. Remarkably thinking back the people I do know I like and respect those that are kind of word. You loved them at one point, you married them for a reason (or dated) they rarely turn into monsters just because. My Ex was an alcoholic. He was unemployed the last 5 years of the marriage. He maxed out his credit cards and fraudulently used mine and then hid the bills from me (back before on-line billing). In the end I had a Restraining Order against him.
You don't want to trust me- that's your prerogative. As MPL says, people change. He was difficult when I married him but not that difficult. Losing a job he'd had for 16 years and then having 2 lucrative consulting gigs run out with no other prospects definitely made him worse.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Nov 30, 2016 15:01:14 GMT -5
I reliably don't trust anyone that has bad words to say about an ex. Remarkably thinking back the people I do know I like and respect those that are kind of word. You loved them at one point, you married them for a reason (or dated) they rarely turn into monsters just because. My Ex was an alcoholic. He was unemployed the last 5 years of the marriage. He maxed out his credit cards and fraudulently used mine and then hid the bills from me (back before on-line billing). In the end I had a Restraining Order against him.
You don't want to trust me- that's your prerogative. As MPL says, people change. He was difficult when I married him but not that difficult. Losing a job he'd had for 16 years and then having 2 lucrative consulting gigs run out with no other prospects definitely made him worse.
I almost married that person. In my early 20's I was engaged to someone very similar to your Ex. Thankfully, we lived together prior to getting married and I saw his true self. In college, I chalked up his drinking to just that...being young and in college. Once we were out of school, had full-time jobs and were living together 24/7 I saw he had a real problem. I can honestly say that my current self (20 years older) wouldn't even give this man the time of day. I count my lucky stars that I never married him because my 20 something self was pretty stupid sometimes.
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naughtybear
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Post by naughtybear on Nov 30, 2016 15:16:08 GMT -5
This is going to sound so sexist but I believe when woman say things like that but distrust the men. Women tend to give more detail, as well as are more sympathetic to their exes, and seem more forgiving when talking about it. Also woman only seem to talk about it when prompted. It's like we know that not many people want to hear that shit. Men seem to say things like "damn greedy bitch took all my money" and they are still so ANGRY sounding even if it was 10 years ago. Men don't seem to list any good qualities when spewing stuff women seem to temper the bad things by saying the good things too.
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movingforward
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Post by movingforward on Nov 30, 2016 15:22:02 GMT -5
This is going to sound so sexist but I believe when woman say things like that but distrust the men. Women tend to give more detail, as well as are more sympathetic to their exes, and seem more forgiving when talking about it. Also woman only seem to talk about it when prompted. It's like we know that not many people want to hear that shit. Men seem to say things like "damn greedy bitch took all my money" and they are still so ANGRY sounding even if it was 10 years ago. Men don't seem to list any good qualities when spewing stuff women seem to temper the bad things by saying the good things too. I actually have no idea what you just said - LOL!
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Nov 30, 2016 15:36:42 GMT -5
This is going to sound so sexist but I believe when woman say things like that but distrust the men. Women tend to give more detail, as well as are more sympathetic to their exes, and seem more forgiving when talking about it. Also woman only seem to talk about it when prompted. It's like we know that not many people want to hear that shit. Men seem to say things like "damn greedy bitch took all my money" and they are still so ANGRY sounding even if it was 10 years ago. Men don't seem to list any good qualities when spewing stuff women seem to temper the bad things by saying the good things too. I think that is because it is more likely than no that the man had to pay the woman (either thorugh support, alimony, his pension, etc). I have known many people that have gotten divorced and very rarely is it the woman paying the man. If I had to pay that asshole ex of mine I would be livid, too.
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naughtybear
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Post by naughtybear on Nov 30, 2016 15:40:03 GMT -5
Ah forget it. LOL
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naughtybear
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Post by naughtybear on Nov 30, 2016 15:41:25 GMT -5
But we just don't know any one's intimate knowledge of the relationship. It is hard to discern the truth from anyone so I just distrust everyone LOL
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milee
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Post by milee on Nov 30, 2016 15:43:14 GMT -5
This is going to sound so sexist but I believe when woman say things like that but distrust the men. Women tend to give more detail, as well as are more sympathetic to their exes, and seem more forgiving when talking about it. Also woman only seem to talk about it when prompted. It's like we know that not many people want to hear that shit. Men seem to say things like "damn greedy bitch took all my money" and they are still so ANGRY sounding even if it was 10 years ago. Men don't seem to list any good qualities when spewing stuff women seem to temper the bad things by saying the good things too. I think that is because it is more likely than no that the man had to pay the woman (either thorugh support, alimony, his pension, etc). I have known many people that have gotten divorced and very rarely is it the woman paying the man. If I had to pay that asshole ex of mine I would be livid, too. I suspect you're right. I've known a fair number of women who've had to pay their ex husband and they're just as outraged as men are and talk about the ex in pretty much the same way men do.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Nov 30, 2016 16:19:15 GMT -5
I think that is because it is more likely than no that the man had to pay the woman (either thorugh support, alimony, his pension, etc). I have known many people that have gotten divorced and very rarely is it the woman paying the man. If I had to pay that asshole ex of mine I would be livid, too. I suspect you're right. I've known a fair number of women who've had to pay their ex husband and they're just as outraged as men are and talk about the ex in pretty much the same way men do. Exactly. I can't imagine anyone being happy about paying someone they are no longer married to!
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milee
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Post by milee on Nov 30, 2016 16:30:13 GMT -5
I suspect you're right. I've known a fair number of women who've had to pay their ex husband and they're just as outraged as men are and talk about the ex in pretty much the same way men do. Exactly. I can't imagine anyone being happy about paying someone they are no longer married to!
I have an acquaintance (not a friend), who was so angry at having to pay a huge amount of money to her ex that she fought to the death to keep the sailboat - that she didn't even know how to sail. She just knew it was his passion and his love, so wanted to screw him. Now that's spiteful. Sailboats aren't even a good investment - they require huge amounts of maintenance, monthly dockage and they depreciate worse than cars. So now she has this nice, big sailboat that she doesn't know how to sail. She's always asking me to go out with her and teach her, but I don't want to be friends with someone that bitter and sail on what I think of as a Spite Boat; that's got to be unlucky and even though I'm not superstitious, luck seems to play a big role in sailing.
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naughtybear
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Post by naughtybear on Nov 30, 2016 16:33:22 GMT -5
Maybe I am unlucky enough to meet too many angry men. I will say the bitch took my money is not the thing I hear, just the one I happened to say here. They are just angry and bitter still, maybe the women I come across are resigned or have worked out their emotional anger. Even if it isn't about money they seem so angry still about what ever injustice had occurred to them.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Nov 30, 2016 16:33:25 GMT -5
Exactly. I can't imagine anyone being happy about paying someone they are no longer married to!
I have an acquaintance (not a friend), who was so angry at having to pay a huge amount of money to her ex that she fought to the death to keep the sailboat - that she didn't even know how to sail. She just knew it was his passion and his love, so wanted to screw him. Now that's spiteful. Sailboats aren't even a good investment - they require huge amounts of maintenance, monthly dockage and they depreciate worse than cars. We had separate finances and I make very good money so there was no child support, alimony or him giving me any money (I was just happy I didn't have to give HIM anything!).
There was some furniture in the house that I bought and he wanted me to leave the one set of living room furniture. The furniture it totally man cave black leather that I despise but there was no freaking way I was leaving it for him! Just knowing that he had to go out and rebuy the ugly stuff made me happy
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