zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 7, 2016 19:14:10 GMT -5
Our lawyers told us that you can draw up wonderful trusts, pre-nups, and other legal documents but if you don't stay on top of it they become meaningless or add to the confusion. From what I can tell Zib's DH had a very complex situation (businesses, settlement with ex-wife, pre-nup with Zib, trust for kids & Zib) and he didn't follow through with things, either because he was too ill, too busy, or just didn't want to think about it. Add in a ton of verbal promises (which tend to arise naturally in conversation) and you have a mess. It's easy to get behind on paperwork, especially when it's unpleasant. If DH and I died tomorrow DS would go to the wrong guardian, our house and one partnership are not titled into the trust, we haven't updated our will in 6 years, etc. both my lawyer and the trustee who is a lawyer says this is the worst excuse for a trust they've ever seen. If DH had lived long enough to get down here my lawyer would have talked to both of us and explained what a mess it was. If DH chose to leave it a mess, at least I'd have known what was coming.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2016 19:27:44 GMT -5
I'm almost 61. Who would even hire me? Actually, Miss Tequila might. I don't think you will be going out on maternity leave.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 7, 2016 19:59:40 GMT -5
I'm almost 61. Who would even hire me? Actually, Miss Tequila might. I don't think you will be going out on maternity leave. I can guarantee that. Even if I had a sex life. Damn, I miss that with DH.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2016 20:02:27 GMT -5
Lots of places would hire you. Try Wal-Mart.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Apr 7, 2016 20:15:31 GMT -5
I'm almost 61. Who would even hire me? Check my age. I was offered a job last year and another one just last week. Both part time which is all I would consider. And, @hickle neither were at WM.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Apr 7, 2016 20:49:34 GMT -5
I'm almost 61. Who would even hire me? Check my age. I was offered a job last year and another one just last week. Both part time which is all I would consider. And, @hickle ineither were at WM. . Where? I'm 56 and need a job now that my kids are launching.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Apr 7, 2016 21:24:09 GMT -5
The prenup AGAIN was only in case of divorce. His will and trust were drawn up in 2013. Way before our marriage. Then you should have a right of election against the estate to get the statutory spousal,share. A subsequent marriage can invalidate parts of a will/trust. But, does the prenup have a waiver of this right of election? You've jumped into a really complicated and fact driven area of law. You can't get any good,legal advice from a message board on this.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 7, 2016 21:28:34 GMT -5
The prenup AGAIN was only in case of divorce. His will and trust were drawn up in 2013. Way before our marriage. Then you should have a right of election against the estate to get the statutory spousal,share. A subsequent marriage can invalidate parts of a will/trust. But, does the prenup have a waiver of this right of election? You've jumped into a really complicated and fact driven area of law. You can't get any good,legal advice from a message board on this. Yup. Anyway, I was just venting about stuff.
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bean29
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Post by bean29 on Apr 8, 2016 5:02:58 GMT -5
I think something was very wrong. I don't like to think Zib's DH did this intentionally, so I choose to think the lawyer set the estate up to benefit who she chose, how she chose...what he wanted didn't matter to her. I hope they can overturn the prenup.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Apr 8, 2016 6:33:49 GMT -5
It's not that uncommon to have an unfunded trust. Half assed lawyering or lazy client.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Apr 8, 2016 6:37:02 GMT -5
Im not being nasty by pointing out the truth. You were married a very short time. If you didn't marry before he died you wouldn't be entitled to anything. You didn't even want to marry him so I have no clue why you want to bust the prenup to go after his assets. Again: he verbally promised her some of his assets. That is all she is asking for - to be cared for in the manner he promised. I don't AT ALL see her trying to take an inheritance away from his kids.
Sensitive much?? A personal hot button, perhaps?? Projection is a tricky thing . . .
[ Lol! Why would I be sensitive about this? My ex wasn't money hungry who came after my assets once we divorxed. Not projecting anything and certainly not sensitice as I've never married someone that said they didn't want my money only to later hire an attorney to go after my money
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Apr 8, 2016 6:38:56 GMT -5
But she said over and over that she didn't need or wanf his money. Not sure why she needs to be taken care of. Um . . . because she's an older middle-age woman who gave up a career to take care of him, and now cannot return to that career? And he promised she would have support so she would not have to worry about her old age?
I don't see her doing any more than trying to get the trust to make good on his promises. She has my sympathies.
She did not give up a career to take care of him! Good lord.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Apr 8, 2016 6:54:17 GMT -5
I'm almost 61. Who would even hire me? You have said many of times on this board that you didn't need his money. In fact you bash other women for relying on a man financially. Why do you suddenly need his money? If it is the car and the apartnemt, turn them over to the estate. They aren't your bills to pay Im not tryig to pick on you I just truly don't understand. You have said for years that your were financially independent but it appears that you aren't. Which is ok if he was supporting you but at least be honest about it. That would be like me, the one who verbally claims pride in not needing a penny from a man, going after a man for his money. It would make me a hypocrite.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 8, 2016 6:58:56 GMT -5
I understand where you're coming from. I get that you don't understand where I'm coming from.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 8, 2016 7:16:20 GMT -5
It's not that uncommon to have an unfunded trust. Half assed lawyering or lazy client. Or both. Sigh
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 8, 2016 7:18:27 GMT -5
Lots of places would hire you. Try Wal-Mart. I hope you're joking. It's one thing to shop there, it's another to work there. I've done more than my share of retail jobs. My hat is off to those who can do it. I'm Not one of them.
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janee
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Post by janee on Apr 8, 2016 7:45:43 GMT -5
Zib, I'm sorry this has happened. It's hard when you're grieving to have to deal with this mess. I would want what was fair to me too. Hopefully it will get resolved in a friendly, fair way. Good luck!
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 8, 2016 8:17:47 GMT -5
On the one hand, dealing with this helped a lot during the grieving process. I'll always miss him and our life together but ending so badly has made me think more and grieve less.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Apr 8, 2016 10:09:02 GMT -5
Because I'm supposed to have use or control of everything until I died. DH left nothing specifically to anyone, all to the trust. But I'm supposed to be beneficiary of the trust. Except the trust has nothing in it, yet. I would be responsible until I died for jewelry that means nothing to me and a lot to DH. The kids wouldn't pay for them so I'm allowed to give it to them. So I did. But in return I want that picture. The trustee needs to show me the good faith I showed in giving the watches and rings by giving me the painting. In my opinion. No one else wants it but me. I get the prenup issue and I agree it's not right but I was supposed to be taken care of until I died then the rest to the kids and until that happens, I'm not backing off. Neither is my lawyer. You are nicer than me. I would have held onto everything until I had that picture and everything else I am entitled to. Sorry you have to go through all this. IME, these "take care of you till you die" and "life estates" never work out. Either the other family members are too greedy or the beneficiary can't hold up their end of the bargain (not meaning you in any way, just in general). In our case the beneficiary of the life estate couldn't afford to pay (mortgage + taxes) on the SECOND home DFIL owned nor could she maintain it. DFIL wrote in an amendment to his Trust that DH was effectively to support DFIL's 3rd wife "from his own funds". DFIL never consulted with DH on this provision and DH adamantly refused. 3rd wife had two able bodied sons approaching 40 who could take care of their own mother.
We were able to unwind the life estate without too much expense. Keep in mind that this was a home DFIL owned before marrying wife #3. If she had not cooperated we would have had to follow through a foreclosure.
Needless to say everybody was unhappy with the outcome. Her older son said some horrible things to DH and no one has spoken to each other in over 10 years. And probably never will.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2016 10:18:25 GMT -5
Back to OP, if she does not want to mess with any asset like the apartment or the car, as was said, she can disclaim her life interest under the trust and be free of it. For that matter, if the whole situation is too much trouble, she could disclaim her entire interest under the trust and everything would go to the kids immediately. It's not your fault, but you are late to the conversation. There wasn't a life interest in an apartment or a car. What there was was a leased situation leaving Zib in a bad situation. Anything else, you'll have to get Zib to tell you personally. As Swamp said, this message board isn't a source of legal advice. It is, however, a good place to vent. That's all she was doing.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Apr 8, 2016 10:20:32 GMT -5
I would sure think long and hard about it.
We don't have kids but I don't want to end up as a "Nurse with a purse". Made a mistake like that with my first. Never again!
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Apr 8, 2016 10:32:44 GMT -5
I wish I had the ability to help folks find heart. And compassion. And a sensitivity chip for others . Clearly posting on an anonymous board doesn't cut it!!
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daisy
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Post by daisy on Apr 8, 2016 11:56:37 GMT -5
On the one hand, dealing with this helped a lot during the grieving process. I'll always miss him and our life together but ending so badly has made me think more and grieve less. I'm so sorry that you are going through all of this. What a difficult time made so much worse by all the conflict. Your thread prompted me to have this conversation with DH last night about just this thing; He has a pension that he claimed after his divorce from ex, so her name was never on that paperwork; He has a life insurance policy through his last place of employment....he BELIEVES his ex is off of that, he TOLD them to remove her (been divorced almost 10 years) BUT he contacted them to sort out some insurance issues with his youngest child (who has been on his insurance for 21 years...but they managed to leave him off this last year)...and found out that his ex was STILL on his health insurance policy. He was not required to cover her at all because miraculously she found a job the day he said he was divorcing her. So I suggested that he contact them on Monday (out of town right now) and MAKE SURE she is NOT ON his life insurance policy!! She already has 1/3 of his pension (refused to work during marriage/almost bankrupted him/told him she absolutely wanted nothing from his in the divorce/grabbed the pension as soon as she could) and she would NEVER let go of that money if it came to her even by mistake. SO yeah, he's going to be on the phone on Monday making sure she's completely out of the picture as she was supposed to be 10 years ago. We do have wills that leave everything to each other, other than specific items (land/tools/jewelry etc) to our respective children and MY children know that they need to be involved right away if anything happens to us because his children might very well loot the house immediately upon being notified that he/I have passed. It could very well turn into a CF so I feel anxious about it knowing what you've been dealing with all of these years. Again, sorry that you were placed in this situation and I hope you and your attorneys can sort it out so that you get what you were promised. While I know it was not your intention, thank you for making me take a long look at my own situation.
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Blonde Granny
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Post by Blonde Granny on Apr 8, 2016 12:06:59 GMT -5
I don't have enough money to find a boy toy, but I certainly have enough to not become a nurse with a purse. I'm having quite a good time taking care of myself and buying what I want when I want it.
Another DH in my future? I'd rather die first. Like Zib, I took care of one for a few years before he died, I'm not going to do that again.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Apr 8, 2016 12:14:28 GMT -5
No DH again, ever. I refuse to let my heart be destroyed again. This one almost killed me.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Apr 8, 2016 13:39:20 GMT -5
Well the trust is NOT unfunded. Since she said EVERYTHING is going into the trust. She also has the right to the use of that painting for life. But apparently she wants to OWN it. I cant see any reason why she would want to own it since she already has the right to keep it on her wall in her home for life, (unless she wants to sell it for the money it is worth). Since she is going to get lawyers involved and fight the trust and estate, there must be liquid assets in addition to the personal property in the trust. (otherwise hiring lawyers is a waste of time and money) I have NEVER seen a trust for the benefit of a spouse that DID NOT provide for the care and support of the spouse for life. Apparently, if this is the case, she is NOT satisfied with being taken care of by the trust for life, to whatever extent there are assets to do so in the trust. Was this marriage more than a year or two? Apparently OP did not give up a job according to one poster. This situation, regardless of why or how it is happening, is a BIG LESSON, to anyone that wants to leave their assets to their children and is considering a later in life marriage. It is amazing to me how no one is ever interested in the other persons money, but after the person dies, that is exactly what happens. (this is a general comment NOT directed at the OP) As others have said, this is the reason I will NEVER remarry if something happens to my wife. Back to OP, if she does not want to mess with any asset like the apartment or the car, as was said, she can disclaim her life interest under the trust and be free of it. For that matter, if the whole situation is too much trouble, she could disclaim her entire interest under the trust and everything would go to the kids immediately. No, it's not funded until the assets are turned over into the trust. If everything was Jointly owned or had beneficiaries there would be no assets to pass to the trust.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Apr 8, 2016 13:53:52 GMT -5
Was this marriage more than a year or two? Apparently OP did not give up a job according to one poster. This situation, regardless of why or how it is happening, is a BIG LESSON, to anyone that wants to leave their assets to their children and is considering a later in life marriage. It is amazing to me how no one is ever interested in the other persons money, but after the person dies, that is exactly what happens. (this is a general comment NOT directed at the OP) As others have said, this is the reason I will NEVER remarry if something happens to my wife. This thread has sealed my thoughts on remarrying. I was young and poor when I married the first time so I had nothing to protect. It saddens me to think that I can marry someone and they can agree with me (that my assets go to my children) but if I die first they can get an attorney and bust up whatever plans I had in place. If it is my money and my assets I had better damn well being the one to decide who inherits them.
Ironically, she didn't want to marry him and only did so at the end of his life...if not for that last minute marriage she wouldn't be entitled to anything. I guess by pointing that out makes me heartless. But it really just makes me sad in our legal system.
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dannylion
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Post by dannylion on Apr 8, 2016 13:54:46 GMT -5
No DH again, ever. I refuse to let my heart be destroyed again. This one almost killed me. Hugs for zib. Thinking of you and hoping there is joy and peace in your future.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2016 14:53:24 GMT -5
Was this marriage more than a year or two? Apparently OP did not give up a job according to one poster. This situation, regardless of why or how it is happening, is a BIG LESSON, to anyone that wants to leave their assets to their children and is considering a later in life marriage. It is amazing to me how no one is ever interested in the other persons money, but after the person dies, that is exactly what happens. (this is a general comment NOT directed at the OP) As others have said, this is the reason I will NEVER remarry if something happens to my wife. This thread has sealed my thoughts on remarrying. I was young and poor when I married the first time so I had nothing to protect. It saddens me to think that I can marry someone and they can agree with me (that my assets go to my children) but if I die first they can get an attorney and bust up whatever plans I had in place. If it is my money and my assets I had better damn well being the one to decide who inherits them.
Ironically, she didn't want to marry him and only did so at the end of his life...if not for that last minute marriage she wouldn't be entitled to anything. I guess by pointing that out makes me heartless. But it really just makes me sad in our legal system.
I understand what you are saying, that a person's wishes should be followed after their death. I agree with that. The things is, as far as I understand it, zib isn't overreaching what was promised to her. She hasn't said anything about trying to keep the house or the business, both of which I assume are valuable. I haven't seen her say anything about whatever bank accounts or investments he had and I have the impression her husband was wealthy. I think earlier in this thread she said the prenup including something about her being the beneficiary of his life insurance, but the ex-wife got the life insurance when it was all said and done. I may not remember that part correctly, so forgive me if I'm mistaken. The issue is the trust, which was suppose to be set up so that zib would have whatever money the trust generated, up to a certain yearly amount, for life. If that was what he said he wanted her to have, I don't see a problem with her trying to get it. From what I can tell, that WAS the plan that was suppose to be in place, his children and whoever else get almost everything eventually and zib would not receive anything directly, but would be able to live off of the trust. I haven't seen her say she wants anything that was intended for someone else. His kids want the jewelry, she's ok with them being given the jewelry, even though technically I guess they should have to buy them and the proceeds go to the trust, which (guessing again) could indirectly benefit zib once everything is straightened out. I don't really know what marrying him or not or the timing of the marriage has to do with this. They didn't have to be married for him to want to take care of her if/when he passed. I don't think it's a failure of the legal system, I think it's because he failed to set everything up properly. I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think this situation is exactly like what you're describing.
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justme
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Post by justme on Apr 8, 2016 15:19:45 GMT -5
Was this marriage more than a year or two? Apparently OP did not give up a job according to one poster. This situation, regardless of why or how it is happening, is a BIG LESSON, to anyone that wants to leave their assets to their children and is considering a later in life marriage. It is amazing to me how no one is ever interested in the other persons money, but after the person dies, that is exactly what happens. (this is a general comment NOT directed at the OP) As others have said, this is the reason I will NEVER remarry if something happens to my wife. This thread has sealed my thoughts on remarrying. I was young and poor when I married the first time so I had nothing to protect. It saddens me to think that I can marry someone and they can agree with me (that my assets go to my children) but if I die first they can get an attorney and bust up whatever plans I had in place. If it is my money and my assets I had better damn well being the one to decide who inherits them.
Ironically, she didn't want to marry him and only did so at the end of his life...if not for that last minute marriage she wouldn't be entitled to anything. I guess by pointing that out makes me heartless. But it really just makes me sad in our legal system.
For cripes sake! Are you being belligerently obtuse as you ignore the fact that the trust was set up in 2013? Around two years before they married? So he was planning on leaving this clusterfuck (though hopefully he didn't think it was) way before they married.
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