weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Mar 30, 2016 12:17:40 GMT -5
And let's not forget that often, herbal supplements have nothing in them. Nothing beneficial, anyway. Rice powders and fillers.
On Monday, New York State’s Attorney General Eric Schneiderman instructed Target, GNC, Walgreens and Walmart to immediately cease selling a number of scam herbal supplements. An investigation revealed that best-selling supplements not only didn’t work, but were potentially dangerous, with four out of five of the products not even listing any herbs in their ingredients–instead, the supplements contained fillers including powdered rice, houseplants and asparagus. Fraudulent products include echinacea, ginseng, St. John’s wort, garlic, ginkgo biloba and saw palmetto.
In total, only 21 percent of store brand herbal supplements contained plants listed on the labels.
www.salon.com/2015/02/03/walmart_target_walgreens_gnc_accused_of_selling_scam_herbal_supplements/
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Mar 30, 2016 12:30:53 GMT -5
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Mar 30, 2016 12:34:30 GMT -5
I have a friend studying to become a Reiki Master. We're fine as long the subject doesn't come up.
Reiki is one of several nonsensical methods commonly referred to as "energy healing." These methods are based on the idea that the body is surrounded or permeated by an energy field that is not measurable by ordinary scientific instrumentation. The alleged force, said to support life, is known as ki in Japan, as chi or qi in China, and as prana in India. Reiki practitioners claim to facilitate healing by strengthening or "balancing" it [1].
In a traditional reiki session, the client lies down or sits fully clothed. The practitioner's hands are placed lightly on or just above the client's body, palms down, using a series of 12-15 positions. Each position is held for about 2 to 5 minutes, or until the practitioner feels that the flow of energy—said to be experienced as sensations such as heat or tingling in the hands—has slowed or stopped. Typically, the practitioner delivers at least four sessions of 30 to 90 minutes each. The techniques include "centering," "clearing," "beaming," "extracting harmful energies," "infusing," and "smoothing and raking the aura," all of which are claimed to influence the imaginary "energy" that Reiki advocates postulate.
Reiki can also be self-administered or administered to others at distant locations. Some practitioners say that "spirit guides" help them produce the proper flow of energy.
www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/reiki.html
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Mar 30, 2016 12:41:36 GMT -5
I mix naturopathic and homopathic medicine up although I know they aren't the same. My former deadbeat brother-in-law was a "doctor" of one or the other and sold the stuff from his basement. Because they are mixed up in my mind, I am skeptical of both. Homeopathic is a narrower focus than naturopathic... I believe that is what I have read. I certainly wouldn't take anything that wasn't suggested to me by someone with a medical degree. My doctor is a chiropractor with about a billion other certifications. In Illinois Dr of chiro are recognized as general physicians.
She does intense research and goes over my blood work with a fine tooth comb. My endocrinologist spent about 5 minutes giving things a cursory glance and saying "well nothing got worse, so the meds are working" Nothing got worse, but nothing got better. That wasn't good enough for me! Sent from my SM-G920T using proboards that's pretty scary.
I worked for a guy who was Type I diabetic. He went to a chiro for a back issue. The chiro told him that with regular spinal manipulations and herbs, he wouldn't need insulin anymore.
That is unconscionable for a medical professional to say something like that.
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Mar 30, 2016 12:43:56 GMT -5
I advise talking to a pharmacist. A doctor doesn't spend as much time as you'd think or like learning about all the drugs on the market and their various interactions. Pharmacists spend four Six YEARS learning nothing but that. Also last time I heard here they are adding a class about 'natural' supplements since it's becoming so popular. Pharmacists need to be able to tell people what these things are and what they interact with. Of course that depends on the people making these natural supplements to be upfront with what is in their products and depends on people being honest about what they are taking. That's the tricky part. fixed.
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imawino
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Post by imawino on Mar 30, 2016 12:54:42 GMT -5
I have a friend studying to become a Reiki Master. We're fine as long the subject doesn't come up.
Reiki is one of several nonsensical methods commonly referred to as "energy healing." These methods are based on the idea that the body is surrounded or permeated by an energy field that is not measurable by ordinary scientific instrumentation. The alleged force, said to support life, is known as ki in Japan, as chi or qi in China, and as prana in India. Reiki practitioners claim to facilitate healing by strengthening or "balancing" it [1].
In a traditional reiki session, the client lies down or sits fully clothed. The practitioner's hands are placed lightly on or just above the client's body, palms down, using a series of 12-15 positions. Each position is held for about 2 to 5 minutes, or until the practitioner feels that the flow of energy—said to be experienced as sensations such as heat or tingling in the hands—has slowed or stopped. Typically, the practitioner delivers at least four sessions of 30 to 90 minutes each. The techniques include "centering," "clearing," "beaming," "extracting harmful energies," "infusing," and "smoothing and raking the aura," all of which are claimed to influence the imaginary "energy" that Reiki advocates postulate.
Reiki can also be self-administered or administered to others at distant locations. Some practitioners say that "spirit guides" help them produce the proper flow of energy.
www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/reiki.html
Good grief! You know, I'm all about everybody doing what makes them happy, as long as nobody is getting hurt, but that does not prevent me from thinking certain things are just. fucking. crazy!
That description made me think of scientologists. Like Reiki masters think they're removing your Thetans?
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on Mar 30, 2016 13:29:50 GMT -5
Homeopathic is a narrower focus than naturopathic... I believe that is what I have read. I certainly wouldn't take anything that wasn't suggested to me by someone with a medical degree. My doctor is a chiropractor with about a billion other certifications. In Illinois Dr of chiro are recognized as general physicians.
She does intense research and goes over my blood work with a fine tooth comb. My endocrinologist spent about 5 minutes giving things a cursory glance and saying "well nothing got worse, so the meds are working" Nothing got worse, but nothing got better. That wasn't good enough for me! Sent from my SM-G920T using proboards that's pretty scary.
I worked for a guy who was Type I diabetic. He went to a chiro for a back issue. The chiro told him that with regular spinal manipulations and herbs, he wouldn't need insulin anymore.
That is unconscionable for a medical professional to say something like that.
Very scary. And, as someone with first-hand, intimate knowledge of the licensure process in this country, chiropractors and NDs are nowhere close to the level of professional assessment necessary for an MD or DO. Let's not kid ourselves. I love my chiropractor, my DO actually encouraged me to see one, but I'm not turning to her for internal medicine needs.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 30, 2016 13:59:25 GMT -5
In Illinois Dr of chiro are recognized as general physicians.
Seriously?! Chiropractors go to Chiropractor school which is not remotely the same thing as medical school. That would scare the crap out of me to know that the doctor I am seeing may never have attended medical school.
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sarcasticgirl
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Post by sarcasticgirl on Mar 30, 2016 14:19:14 GMT -5
Homeopathic is a narrower focus than naturopathic... I believe that is what I have read. I certainly wouldn't take anything that wasn't suggested to me by someone with a medical degree. My doctor is a chiropractor with about a billion other certifications. In Illinois Dr of chiro are recognized as general physicians.
She does intense research and goes over my blood work with a fine tooth comb. My endocrinologist spent about 5 minutes giving things a cursory glance and saying "well nothing got worse, so the meds are working" Nothing got worse, but nothing got better. That wasn't good enough for me! Sent from my SM-G920T using proboards that's pretty scary.
I worked for a guy who was Type I diabetic. He went to a chiro for a back issue. The chiro told him that with regular spinal manipulations and herbs, he wouldn't need insulin anymore.
That is unconscionable for a medical professional to say something like that.
as I said in another post here, there are a lot of shitty chiros out there. There are a lot of MDs that throw drugs and surgery at the problem when neither is necessary.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Mar 30, 2016 14:19:36 GMT -5
that's pretty scary.
I worked for a guy who was Type I diabetic. He went to a chiro for a back issue. The chiro told him that with regular spinal manipulations and herbs, he wouldn't need insulin anymore.
That is unconscionable for a medical professional to say something like that.
Very scary. And, as someone with first-hand, intimate knowledge of the licensure process in this country, chiropractors and NDs are nowhere close to the level of professional assessment necessary for an MD or DO. Let's not kid ourselves. I love my chiropractor, my DO actually encouraged me to see one, but I'm not turning to her for internal medicine needs. Highlighted portion of sentence = not correct. ND's have the same four-year book learning, laboratory requirements and clinical rotations as MDs. At least in my State, they have the same licensing scope of practice as a GP or Family Medicine MD. My ND is fully licensed to diagnose and treat internal medicine issues.
ND's actually have MORE overall training hours than MD's because they have a couple of hundred hours of training in clinical nutrition - something MD's don't get. If you don't believe me, check out the curriculum at your closest regional medical school and compare it to the curriculum at Bastyr University (Seattle) or Southwest NMS (Scottsdale).
The rest of your post - - I agree.
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sarcasticgirl
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Post by sarcasticgirl on Mar 30, 2016 14:22:19 GMT -5
Sorry- I meant "primary care physicians" not general physicians.
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sarcasticgirl
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Post by sarcasticgirl on Mar 30, 2016 14:37:58 GMT -5
My chiro has been the only doctor I've been to that has been able to "fix me" my blood work has improved and she's helped me solve mysteries that led to a lifestyle adjustment that has changed my health dramatically. She also doesn't SHUN all medicine and she will never tell a patient to stop taking a particular drug. In fact, last week I was discussing allergies with her while I was getting my physical and she asked if my allergist had prescribed a nasal spray for me because from the redness in pressure i had in my nose and ears I could benefit from it. (He had prescribed one, i just hadn't been using it because GROSS- he says the same thing to me) In the past, she has recommended that I go see a DR. for antibiotics when my cold progressed too far and gave me suggestions on how to restore my gut from the round of antibiotics I took.
Perhaps I have found a needle in a haystack- perhaps no one believes or cares. That's fine. She has fixed so much internally and externally. I wish I could kiss her. lol
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Mar 30, 2016 14:46:09 GMT -5
And let's not forget that often, herbal supplements have nothing in them. Nothing beneficial, anyway. Rice powders and fillers.
On Monday, New York State’s Attorney General Eric Schneiderman instructed Target, GNC, Walgreens and Walmart to immediately cease selling a number of scam herbal supplements. An investigation revealed that best-selling supplements not only didn’t work, but were potentially dangerous, with four out of five of the products not even listing any herbs in their ingredients–instead, the supplements contained fillers including powdered rice, houseplants and asparagus. Fraudulent products include echinacea, ginseng, St. John’s wort, garlic, ginkgo biloba and saw palmetto.
In total, only 21 percent of store brand herbal supplements contained plants listed on the labels.
www.salon.com/2015/02/03/walmart_target_walgreens_gnc_accused_of_selling_scam_herbal_supplements/
This is why I wish these supplements were regulated somehow. Even with prescription drugs, there are knock offs with nothing useful in them that get into US pharmacies and doled out.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Mar 30, 2016 14:54:01 GMT -5
My chiro has been the only doctor I've been to that has been able to "fix me" my blood work has improved and she's helped me solve mysteries that led to a lifestyle adjustment that has changed my health dramatically. She also doesn't SHUN all medicine and she will never tell a patient to stop taking a particular drug. In fact, last week I was discussing allergies with her while I was getting my physical and she asked if my allergist had prescribed a nasal spray for me because from the redness in pressure i had in my nose and ears I could benefit from it. (He had prescribed one, i just hadn't been using it because GROSS- he says the same thing to me) In the past, she has recommended that I go see a DR. for antibiotics when my cold progressed too far and gave me suggestions on how to restore my gut from the round of antibiotics I took. Perhaps I have found a needle in a haystack- perhaps no one believes or cares. That's fine. She has fixed so much internally and externally. I wish I could kiss her. lol The problem is knowing when you can be helped by non conventional means and when you cannot. Unfortunately, too many people feel like this is a 'one size fits all' - and some non conventional practitioners are just as happy to take your money whether they can help you or not. It sounds like you have a good balance in your life, but you are not the norm. Again, with the example of the child that recently died of meningitis in Canada, whose parents bought 100% into the naturopath's treatment and the child died of an illness that could have been prevented in the first place with a vaccine. Not only that, when the illness went so far that the child could no longer sit in a car seat due to the stiffening of his neck, they still thought that the naturopath was still the way to go. Lifestyle changes can help, but in some cases they cannot override genetics. I had an aunt who died in her early 50s. She had hypertension and she was going to control it with diet and lifestyle changes. But dammit, she was not going to go to those &%$# doctors, when her local quack could give her an herb to allow her to lose even more weight. She stroked out on my parents sofa, and during the process she kept a journal of her BP, that she had taken along with the food she ate that day and weight. Regardless of how well she ate, how skinny she got, her BP kept climbing and her last journal entry it was 250/120. Unfortunately, in my family the hypertension has a genetic base and you cannot lifestyle change it to normal. Lord knows, I tried myself and likely hastened the demise of my hips in the process.
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on Mar 30, 2016 14:56:16 GMT -5
Very scary. And, as someone with first-hand, intimate knowledge of the licensure process in this country, chiropractors and NDs are nowhere close to the level of professional assessment necessary for an MD or DO. Let's not kid ourselves. I love my chiropractor, my DO actually encouraged me to see one, but I'm not turning to her for internal medicine needs. Highlighted portion of sentence = not correct. ND's have the same four-year book learning, laboratory requirements and clinical rotations as MDs. At least in my State, they have the same licensing scope of practice as a GP or Family Medicine MD. My ND is fully licensed to diagnose and treat internal medicine issues.
ND's actually have MORE overall training hours than MD's because they have a couple of hundred hours of training in clinical nutrition - something MD's don't get. If you don't believe me, check out the curriculum at your closest regional medical school and compare it to the curriculum at Bastyr University (Seattle) or Southwest NMS (Scottsdale).
The rest of your post - - I agree.
I know what I'm talking about. The NPLEX is a 19 hour exam and you can take it even if you are five years removed from your program of study (according to the link you posted yesterday). The USMLE is a 41 hour exam and you must be a current medical student and medical graduate in a residency program in order to complete the licensing exam. There is no national residency program for an ND, only Utah requires residency. Nevermind that MDs and DOs are also required to earn CE credits, have post-licensure assessments, and go through recertification. Med schools are introducing more nutrition programs. MD programs have more clinical hours than a naturopathic physician program. Med students have their clerkship rotations, residency (3-5year programs, depending on specialty), and then fellowship. I think it's great that you found someone who has successfully managed your fibromyalgia. I agree with a lot of alternative approaches (like I said previously, I love my chiropractor and my primary care physician is a DO), but it's not all the same. I just can't get behind a field that only has licensing in 17 states being comparable to an MD or DO.
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Mar 30, 2016 15:03:30 GMT -5
Agree to disagree.
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on Mar 30, 2016 15:06:27 GMT -5
I agree.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2016 15:14:52 GMT -5
I advise talking to a pharmacist. A doctor doesn't spend as much time as you'd think or like learning about all the drugs on the market and their various interactions. Pharmacists spend four Six YEARS learning nothing but that. Also last time I heard here they are adding a class about 'natural' supplements since it's becoming so popular. Pharmacists need to be able to tell people what these things are and what they interact with. Of course that depends on the people making these natural supplements to be upfront with what is in their products and depends on people being honest about what they are taking. That's the tricky part. fixed.
Different states have different licensing procedures. My daughter went to two years of undergraduate. At that point, she was eligible to apply to the school of pharmacy without actually graduating from college first. She was accepted and did four years of pharmacy school. So she did do six years of college, but two years were general studies although very science-intensive. And, yes, she is a PharmD. When she goes to the doctor, she prepares a list of the medicines that she wants prescribed based on what she thinks the diagnosis may be. I told her that her doctor probably thinks of her as a PITA. She stuck her tongue out at me and said her doctor always thanks her for the information. The fact that her doctor is polite does not negate the PITA part.
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sarcasticgirl
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Post by sarcasticgirl on Mar 30, 2016 15:18:26 GMT -5
My chiro has been the only doctor I've been to that has been able to "fix me" my blood work has improved and she's helped me solve mysteries that led to a lifestyle adjustment that has changed my health dramatically. She also doesn't SHUN all medicine and she will never tell a patient to stop taking a particular drug. In fact, last week I was discussing allergies with her while I was getting my physical and she asked if my allergist had prescribed a nasal spray for me because from the redness in pressure i had in my nose and ears I could benefit from it. (He had prescribed one, i just hadn't been using it because GROSS- he says the same thing to me) In the past, she has recommended that I go see a DR. for antibiotics when my cold progressed too far and gave me suggestions on how to restore my gut from the round of antibiotics I took. Perhaps I have found a needle in a haystack- perhaps no one believes or cares. That's fine. She has fixed so much internally and externally. I wish I could kiss her. lol The problem is knowing when you can be helped by non conventional means and when you cannot. Unfortunately, too many people feel like this is a 'one size fits all' - and some non conventional practitioners are just as happy to take your money whether they can help you or not. It sounds like you have a good balance in your life, but you are not the norm. Again, with the example of the child that recently died of meningitis in Canada, whose parents bought 100% into the naturopath's treatment and the child died of an illness that could have been prevented in the first place with a vaccine. Not only that, when the illness went so far that the child could no longer sit in a car seat due to the stiffening of his neck, they still thought that the naturopath was still the way to go. Lifestyle changes can help, but in some cases they cannot override genetics. I had an aunt who died in her early 50s. She had hypertension and she was going to control it with diet and lifestyle changes. But dammit, she was not going to go to those &%$# doctors, when her local quack could give her an herb to allow her to lose even more weight. She stroked out on my parents sofa, and during the process she kept a journal of her BP, that she had taken along with the food she ate that day and weight. Regardless of how well she ate, how skinny she got, her BP kept climbing and her last journal entry it was 250/120. Unfortunately, in my family the hypertension has a genetic base and you cannot lifestyle change it to normal. Lord knows, I tried myself and likely hastened the demise of my hips in the process. I agree
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Mar 30, 2016 15:21:03 GMT -5
The problem is knowing when you can be helped by non conventional means and when you cannot. Unfortunately, too many people feel like this is a 'one size fits all' - and some non conventional practitioners are just as happy to take your money whether they can help you or not.
I'd say for the most part those of us here are of average intelligence and do our homework a lot more than the average population. The issue I have is the automatic assumption that these people are somehow better than doctors or traditional medicine b/c they deal with "natural" treatments and medicines. They can be quacks and shysters with finanicial conflicts of interest just as much as a regular MD. People also seem to forget that nature can kill you just as easily. Nightshade is all natural but it's going to kill me if I eat it. There is no regulation what so ever of natural supplements and other "holistic" treatments which means they can say whatever they want and prescribe them for whatever they want. The danger is there is no way for you to check for yourself if what they are saying is true because they aren't required to provide that information. Regular doctors aren't perfect and yes there are shitty doctors. At least when my doctor gives me X prescription I can at the very least go to drugs.com to find out exactly what I am taking. Then I can make an informed decision whether or not to take it. I can't do that with what I buy at the natural foods store. If it works I am not going to slap a supplement out of a person's hand and tell them they are being an idiot. I respect DH's cousin who is a chiropractor b/c she understands the limits of her education and works WITH people's GPs to find a balance as opposed to taking it upon herself to play doctor. However you are never going to get me to agree that since it's "natural" it's automatically better and safer for you than traditional medicine. Nor am I "part of the problem" for advocating that people do some actual research outside of Dr. Google.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Mar 30, 2016 15:51:33 GMT -5
My chiro has been the only doctor I've been to that has been able to "fix me" my blood work has improved and she's helped me solve mysteries that led to a lifestyle adjustment that has changed my health dramatically. She also doesn't SHUN all medicine and she will never tell a patient to stop taking a particular drug. In fact, last week I was discussing allergies with her while I was getting my physical and she asked if my allergist had prescribed a nasal spray for me because from the redness in pressure i had in my nose and ears I could benefit from it. (He had prescribed one, i just hadn't been using it because GROSS- he says the same thing to me) In the past, she has recommended that I go see a DR. for antibiotics when my cold progressed too far and gave me suggestions on how to restore my gut from the round of antibiotics I took. Perhaps I have found a needle in a haystack- perhaps no one believes or cares. That's fine. She has fixed so much internally and externally. I wish I could kiss her. lol The problem is knowing when you can be helped by non conventional means and when you cannot. Unfortunately, too many people feel like this is a 'one size fits all' - and some non conventional practitioners are just as happy to take your money whether they can help you or not. It sounds like you have a good balance in your life, but you are not the norm. Again, with the example of the child that recently died of meningitis in Canada, whose parents bought 100% into the naturopath's treatment and the child died of an illness that could have been prevented in the first place with a vaccine. Not only that, when the illness went so far that the child could no longer sit in a car seat due to the stiffening of his neck, they still thought that the naturopath was still the way to go. Lifestyle changes can help, but in some cases they cannot override genetics. I had an aunt who died in her early 50s. She had hypertension and she was going to control it with diet and lifestyle changes. But dammit, she was not going to go to those &%$# doctors, when her local quack could give her an herb to allow her to lose even more weight. She stroked out on my parents sofa, and during the process she kept a journal of her BP, that she had taken along with the food she ate that day and weight. Regardless of how well she ate, how skinny she got, her BP kept climbing and her last journal entry it was 250/120. Unfortunately, in my family the hypertension has a genetic base and you cannot lifestyle change it to normal. Lord knows, I tried myself and likely hastened the demise of my hips in the process. I love Mich's first paragraph, but disagree with the second. I think there are many people who do know how to balance conventional and unconventional treatments. I'm not sure that anyone even knows what the norm is when it comes to most therapies, even conventional.
Some people don't use conventional medicine because of religious beliefs. People do stupid things and believe things that are unreasonable often whether their doctor or practioner advocates it. There are quacks in both conventional and unconventional therapies. There are probably even more bad patients like your aunt who want something to be true so that's what they do.
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sarcasticgirl
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Post by sarcasticgirl on Mar 30, 2016 15:55:51 GMT -5
I can Google everything I take, actually... it gives me very specific info and side effects etc. Much like a regular medicine. But I am not buying random stuff from a natural foods storw, so maybe that is the difference?
At this point, my supplements are all for basic vitamins and a digestive enzyme.
Sent from my SM-G920T using proboards
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Mar 30, 2016 15:56:29 GMT -5
I have a friend studying to become a Reiki Master. We're fine as long the subject doesn't come up.
Reiki is one of several nonsensical methods commonly referred to as "energy healing." These methods are based on the idea that the body is surrounded or permeated by an energy field that is not measurable by ordinary scientific instrumentation. The alleged force, said to support life, is known as ki in Japan, as chi or qi in China, and as prana in India. Reiki practitioners claim to facilitate healing by strengthening or "balancing" it [1].
In a traditional reiki session, the client lies down or sits fully clothed. The practitioner's hands are placed lightly on or just above the client's body, palms down, using a series of 12-15 positions. Each position is held for about 2 to 5 minutes, or until the practitioner feels that the flow of energy—said to be experienced as sensations such as heat or tingling in the hands—has slowed or stopped. Typically, the practitioner delivers at least four sessions of 30 to 90 minutes each. The techniques include "centering," "clearing," "beaming," "extracting harmful energies," "infusing," and "smoothing and raking the aura," all of which are claimed to influence the imaginary "energy" that Reiki advocates postulate.
Reiki can also be self-administered or administered to others at distant locations. Some practitioners say that "spirit guides" help them produce the proper flow of energy.
www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/reiki.html
Good grief! You know, I'm all about everybody doing what makes them happy, as long as nobody is getting hurt, but that does not prevent me from thinking certain things are just. fucking. crazy!
That description made me think of scientologists. Like Reiki masters think they're removing your Thetans?
WTE are Thetans? I don't think Reiki has any connection to that.
That quack watch article wasn't that well written and kind of weird too. The belief that the body is energy and one's energy goes past the skin barrier has been around for probably thousands of years. Energy healing is at least as old as the laying of hands written about in the Bible.
Did gravity not exist until we could measure it? IMO the energy is real. That said, I'm not sure I'd recommend Reiki the modality for anything in general. A good practitioner is very important and I hope that "traditional" treatment is no longer popular.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Mar 30, 2016 16:05:13 GMT -5
My aunt fought the establishment all her life, regardless of establishment. There are a lot of people out there like this....too many.
I've gotten in on a hip group recently where there are far too many people like this, and are so far anti establishment at this point that they do not listen to reason. I had a huge argument with one woman who was convinced that another's prosthesis infection was a sham because her surgeon wanted to do more surgery. Regardless of explaining to her that this was the only way of getting rid of the infection, why it was the only way of getting rid of it, and how it was identified with discrete, non subjective parameters, I was wrong.
In the meantime, I'm seeing a lot of suggestions for supplements that do absolutely nothing that people swear by. I looked into a few of them, and there is no biological action/plausibility for the product, they likely won't harm anything but the patient's wallet. Some are on disability, where finances are slim, but are still willing to spend their last $ on something that will do nothing to help.
It is hard to watch, hard enough that I'm backing out. But yeah....there are a lot out there.
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milee
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Post by milee on Mar 30, 2016 16:29:28 GMT -5
My aunt fought the establishment all her life, regardless of establishment. There are a lot of people out there like this....too many. I've gotten in on a hip group recently where there are far too many people like this, and are so far anti establishment at this point that they do not listen to reason. I had a huge argument with one woman who was convinced that another's prosthesis infection was a sham because her surgeon wanted to do more surgery. Regardless of explaining to her that this was the only way of getting rid of the infection, why it was the only way of getting rid of it, and how it was identified with discrete, non subjective parameters, I was wrong. In the meantime, I'm seeing a lot of suggestions for supplements that do absolutely nothing that people swear by. I looked into a few of them, and there is no biological action/plausibility for the product, they likely won't harm anything but the patient's wallet. Some are on disability, where finances are slim, but are still willing to spend their last $ on something that will do nothing to help. It is hard to watch, hard enough that I'm backing out. But yeah....there are a lot out there. Agree. But I have mixed feelings about that, too. There definitely are quacks out there preying on people or just unknowingly recommending things they don't understand. But there are also caring alternative healthcare providers who might be able to help and reach some people that a conventional doc couldn't or wouldn't.
I'll use my sister as an example. She's a Neurologist. And a huge bitch. She can be really snotty when she talks about Fibromyalgia. She believes Fibromyalgia is real, but she also thinks that the majority of people who think they have Fibromyalgia are either whiners, hypochondriacs or people with undiagnosed mental issues that really need mental care instead of a physical cure. From the disparaging way she talks about patients, rolling her eyes and getting her long-suffering-Deity tone, I am guessing that she's probably a truly awful doc to anyone who goes to see her concerning Fibromyalgia. She probably doesn't even try to hide her disbelief or impatience and if she does, I'm sure the patients can sense it. So she's a board certified, traditional Neurologist with excellent training and credentials and is probably extremely unhelpful when it comes to anybody who goes to see her about Fibromyalgia, whether they have it or not.
On the other hand, if there's an alternative provider who would listen respectfully to a patient who comes in for Fibromyalgia treatment, even if it's just placebo effect, that patient is more likely to get a better outcome because the patient feels respected and cared for. The ones that my sister has the most disdain for - the ones that don't really have Fibromyalgia and instead just need some extra hand holding, counseling, whatever - are the very ones that might benefit most from an alternative provider who would spend time with them.
And before we scoff at placebo effect - who cares how the problem is fixed? If placebo effect fixes the issue and makes the patient feel better, then that seems like a pretty good solution and not one we should disparage.
Before anyone writes to tell me how wrong my info is about Fibromyalgia, remember this is my sister talking, not me. No need to flame me, I don't know enough about the issue to weigh in, just using her as an example because every time she talks about this I think about how much better off her patients would be if they went to a nice Witch doctor than had to sit through her condescending lectures. I'm a believer in Western medicine. But I also think there are plenty of things it doesn't do well and if alternative care fills in for the things Western isn't good at, then we are silly to discount it.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Mar 30, 2016 16:34:39 GMT -5
My aunt fought the establishment all her life, regardless of establishment. There are a lot of people out there like this....too many. I've gotten in on a hip group recently where there are far too many people like this, and are so far anti establishment at this point that they do not listen to reason. I had a huge argument with one woman who was convinced that another's prosthesis infection was a sham because her surgeon wanted to do more surgery. Regardless of explaining to her that this was the only way of getting rid of the infection, why it was the only way of getting rid of it, and how it was identified with discrete, non subjective parameters, I was wrong. In the meantime, I'm seeing a lot of suggestions for supplements that do absolutely nothing that people swear by. I looked into a few of them, and there is no biological action/plausibility for the product, they likely won't harm anything but the patient's wallet. Some are on disability, where finances are slim, but are still willing to spend their last $ on something that will do nothing to help. It is hard to watch, hard enough that I'm backing out. But yeah....there are a lot out there. Remember how you like to remind the board that correlation does not equal causation? Likewise, your personal experience, is just your personal experience. It isn't a scientific poll, no measuring is going on in a large enough group to draw conclusions.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Mar 30, 2016 16:43:28 GMT -5
My aunt fought the establishment all her life, regardless of establishment. There are a lot of people out there like this....too many. I've gotten in on a hip group recently where there are far too many people like this, and are so far anti establishment at this point that they do not listen to reason. I had a huge argument with one woman who was convinced that another's prosthesis infection was a sham because her surgeon wanted to do more surgery. Regardless of explaining to her that this was the only way of getting rid of the infection, why it was the only way of getting rid of it, and how it was identified with discrete, non subjective parameters, I was wrong. In the meantime, I'm seeing a lot of suggestions for supplements that do absolutely nothing that people swear by. I looked into a few of them, and there is no biological action/plausibility for the product, they likely won't harm anything but the patient's wallet. Some are on disability, where finances are slim, but are still willing to spend their last $ on something that will do nothing to help. It is hard to watch, hard enough that I'm backing out. But yeah....there are a lot out there. Remember how you like to remind the board that correlation does not equal causation? Likewise, your personal experience, is just your personal experience. It isn't a scientific poll, no measuring is going on in a large enough group to draw conclusions.
Huh? That is not what I am doing. I think in some situations that it works. But I also think that too many grab onto non conventional treatment as the holy grail at the expense of their health. Knowing when it can help, and knowing when it won't is the difference. I never, ever said that this is a scientific study, just observations. Please point out where I said otherwise.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Mar 30, 2016 16:58:38 GMT -5
Naturopathy is not covered by our health care, RAMQ. (Régie de l'assurance maladie du Québec) You can buy extended and expensive coverage that MAY cover some of it, but it also covers massages and private rooms. RAMQ doesn't cover things that are unproven or unnecessary.
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Opti
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Post by Opti on Mar 30, 2016 17:20:38 GMT -5
Remember how you like to remind the board that correlation does not equal causation? Likewise, your personal experience, is just your personal experience. It isn't a scientific poll, no measuring is going on in a large enough group to draw conclusions.
Huh? That is not what I am doing. I think in some situations that it works. But I also think that too many grab onto non conventional treatment as the holy grail at the expense of their health. Knowing when it can help, and knowing when it won't is the difference. I never, ever said that this is a scientific study, just observations. Please point out where I said otherwise. Sorry if I was confusing Mich. I was still commenting on this -
"It sounds like you have a good balance in your life, but you are not the norm. "
given you had more observations with people who distrusted conventional medicine. So maybe I took your comment wrong, and you aren't posting more examples to tell us that the average user of unconventional medicine has unrealistic expectations.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2016 17:31:08 GMT -5
What about my friend that is convinced she has colon cancer even though the colonoscopy came back fine?
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