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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2016 8:28:08 GMT -5
What are your thoughts on naturopathy? Do you go to a naturopathic doctor?
I find naturopathic medicine very interesting. I try herbs and supplements before prescription medicine.
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milee
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Post by milee on Mar 29, 2016 8:43:57 GMT -5
Mixed reaction.
On one hand I agree with the assertion that Western medicine focuses too little on prevention and lifestyle changes and too much on potentially dangerous drugs and surgical interventions. So an alternate where a healthcare provider takes time to understand what lifestyle issues may be causing health issues, and that healthcare provider working with a patient on gentle changes in diet, exercise and even mental health to improve health is very appealing and should be explored and supported.
On the other hand, there is no evidence to support many of the "legends" or "myths" about many of the herbal supplements and few people understand that herbal supplements may actually be harmful. The industry is not well regulated, is rife with adulterated products, outright fraud and the tendency to believe in unproven miracle type hoodoo.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Mar 29, 2016 9:44:32 GMT -5
Like milee I think we need to make lifestyle changes before turning to medication, but I am skeptical of trusting herbs and supplements as magical cures for stuff.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Mar 29, 2016 10:01:46 GMT -5
I would only do it after I have exhausted Western style proven and scientific based medical approaches.
That said, I have done acupuncture and have seen a chiro, etc.
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Sharon
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Post by Sharon on Mar 29, 2016 10:03:19 GMT -5
I mix the two. For a while I was having an issue with my Thyroid medication stabilizing. The tests were on a roller coaster and we were adjusting the dosage every 6 weeks. I showed the test results to my chiropractor/naturopath and he added a supplement and the test results leveled right off. We did not need to change the dosage of my medication for 5 or 6 years. He would have be bring in a copy of the test results from my MD and he would review it.
The combination of the two worked great for me. I just wish my MD would be as supportive of the naturopath as he is of the MD. The MD just dismisses the supplements and they aren't even noted in the chart.
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alabamagal
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Post by alabamagal on Mar 29, 2016 10:05:41 GMT -5
Again, what miler said.
I think a lot of health issues can be attributed to diet. I'm not into anything extreme, but I think sticking to a diet of less processed, fake foods will do you good. Also living an active lifestyle, not necessarily just exercise but moving during the day, is good for you.
I do take a vitamin D supplement, but that is per my endocrinologist and is based on blood testing showing I am deficient.
Naturopathy has many parts to it other than herbs and supplements, it is also about healing the whole body, which sounds good but can lead to many unproven treatments.
I have a wacky relative who believes all diseases are caused by bad thoughts. If you have a cold you just need to change your attitude. She had a son who was diagnosed with schizophrenia (had to be taken to Doctor by his grandmother) and is in serious need of psychotic drugs. I think she is finally seeing how much the drugs help him despite first objecting.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Mar 29, 2016 10:23:08 GMT -5
I think it can harm more than help.
There was recently a child in the news that died from meningitis, despite the fact that a nurse friend told the parents that they needed to take the child to a doctor. Instead, they took him to a naturopath, who prescribed something (garlic, to enhance the immune system) that didn't touch the infection.
Unless you have the ability to discriminate between what can be helped vs what can cause injury death, then I don't think it should be used as a sole treatment.
Like with supplements, there is no regulation of quality and very little information on interactions with other drugs, so it becomes difficult for any mainstream health practioner to endorse them because they just don't know if they can harm or help. So most will fall on the side of 'don't use'.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2016 10:31:49 GMT -5
My friend had a naturopathic doctor tell her she has colon cancer. Friend proceeded to tell people she has cancer.
Then my friend went to a medical doctor for a colonoscopy. They did not find cancer.
My friend is still convinced she has cancer. She knows the naturopathic doctor was right. She is treating "it" with essential oils. She will not eat any sugar (including fruit) because "it" feeds on sugar. She sits in a infrared sauna because "it" hates heat. Oh yeah, "it" has tentacles too.
I don't know if she gave "it" a name yet.
I hate to say she doesn't have cancer, but I have to wonder.
Is my friend going a little bonkers? She used to be normal.
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justme
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Post by justme on Mar 29, 2016 10:45:14 GMT -5
I do some naturopath stuff, but not to the exclusion of western medicine. So like I have hypothyroidism, I'm still going to take my synthroid but I might try some naturopath stuff too. (Though that's a bad example because I don't lol)
Oh, here's a good example. I have asthma. I take my meds and have my rescue inhaler. My sil gave me an oil blend that's supposed to help. When I had an attack, after I used my inhaler, I used some oils and felt way better quicker than if I didn't. And another time after that when I could feel I prob wasn't going to have a good asthma day I used the oils and didn't have to use my rescue inhaler. Am I throwing away my inhaler? No. But I also bought more of the oils because they make me feel better. And it probably wasn't placebo because I laughed when my mom gave it to me and was like WTF this is supposed to be better than my inhaler and she just asked me to try and see.
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milee
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Post by milee on Mar 29, 2016 10:54:07 GMT -5
I do some naturopath stuff, but not to the exclusion of western medicine. So like I have hypothyroidism, I'm still going to take my synthroid but I might try some naturopath stuff too. (Though that's a bad example because I don't lol) Oh, here's a good example. I have asthma. I take my meds and have my rescue inhaler. My sil gave me an oil blend that's supposed to help. When I had an attack, after I used my inhaler, I used some oils and felt way better quicker than if I didn't. And another time after that when I could feel I prob wasn't going to have a good asthma day I used the oils and didn't have to use my rescue inhaler. Am I throwing away my inhaler? No. But I also bought more of the oils because they make me feel better. Hm. Guess I am similar in that I take a blended approach and will try ideas from Western or alternative sources. But I differ in that I'm skeptical to the recommendations of either source, so pick and choose what to try.
For my asthma, I still have a rescue inhaler, but declined the prescribed maintenance inhaled meds after reading the studies and cautions. From the alternative side, I wouldn't take any oils without first seeing some very sound studies (not that oils themselves are a particular problem, just that right now they seem to be the new, trendy "natural cure" and I've seen some very irresponsible claims for oils that might actually cause harm), but I've tried some of the natural diet recommendations. For example, many naturopathic sources will claim a diet high in oatmeal and antioxidants can cure asthma. I haven't seen any well-designed studies to support this, but the theory sounds plausible and there's very little risk or downside to trying it, so I eat a lot of (and feed my oldest son who has asthma) oatmeal and antioxidants.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Mar 29, 2016 10:58:44 GMT -5
I do some naturopath stuff, but not to the exclusion of western medicine. So like I have hypothyroidism, I'm still going to take my synthroid but I might try some naturopath stuff too. (Though that's a bad example because I don't lol) Oh, here's a good example. I have asthma. I take my meds and have my rescue inhaler. My sil gave me an oil blend that's supposed to help. When I had an attack, after I used my inhaler, I used some oils and felt way better quicker than if I didn't. And another time after that when I could feel I prob wasn't going to have a good asthma day I used the oils and didn't have to use my rescue inhaler. Am I throwing away my inhaler? No. But I also bought more of the oils because they make me feel better. And it probably wasn't placebo because I laughed when my mom gave it to me and was like WTF this is supposed to be better than my inhaler and she just asked me to try and see. So how much of this could be considered a placebo effect? While asthma is a very real, physiological condition, the intensity can vary considerably due to a lot of outside factors....some psychological. Does you believing the oils help make you perceive them helping?
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dannylion
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Post by dannylion on Mar 29, 2016 11:09:48 GMT -5
My friend had a naturopathic doctor tell her she has colon cancer. Friend proceeded to tell people she has cancer.
Then my friend went to a medical doctor for a colonoscopy. They did not find cancer.
My friend is still convinced she has cancer. She knows the naturopathic doctor was right. She is treating "it" with essential oils. She will not eat any sugar (including fruit) because "it" feeds on sugar. She sits in a infrared sauna because "it" hates heat. Oh yeah, "it" has tentacles too.
I don't know if she gave "it" a name yet.
I hate to say she doesn't have cancer, but I have to wonder.
Is my friend going a little bonkers? She used to be normal.
Is your friend paying that naturopathic "doctor" for "treatments" for her "cancer?"
If she is, it is in the "doctor's" financial interest to make her believe she is ill, then string her along with bogus "treatments" and maybe eventually declare her "cured" to convince her the "doctor" is a miracle worker and keep her coming back.
As Mich pointed out, it's all sweetness and light until you try to cure your infant's (very real) meningitis with garlic and maple syrup. That's not going to end well.
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milee
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Post by milee on Mar 29, 2016 11:14:57 GMT -5
BTW, as much as I think it's a really bad idea to try to cure meningitis with garlic and maple syrup, I can think of other examples of it being a really bad idea to pursue a purely Western style treatment for things as well. People who want to believe in alternative treatments seem to often fall into the trap of wanting to believe in hope without data. On the other hand, people who want to rely solely on Western style treatment seem to often fall into the trap of wanting to believe in easy fixes and that a pill or surgery will cure any problem.
It would be nice if we were to be able to have a blended approach that values both science and also focuses more on examining lifestyle and how small lifestyle factors can and should be structured for optimum health.
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happyhoix
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Post by happyhoix on Mar 29, 2016 11:29:58 GMT -5
My friend had a naturopathic doctor tell her she has colon cancer. Friend proceeded to tell people she has cancer.
Then my friend went to a medical doctor for a colonoscopy. They did not find cancer.
My friend is still convinced she has cancer. She knows the naturopathic doctor was right. She is treating "it" with essential oils. She will not eat any sugar (including fruit) because "it" feeds on sugar. She sits in a infrared sauna because "it" hates heat. Oh yeah, "it" has tentacles too.
I don't know if she gave "it" a name yet.
I hate to say she doesn't have cancer, but I have to wonder.
Is my friend going a little bonkers? She used to be normal.
Yes, she might be going bonkers.
We had a family friend that went to one of those 'faith healers.' Did the whole pyramid and crystal power thing, believed electricity was evil and wouldn't have an electrical appliance in the house.
While she spent big bucks traveling to various natural healing centers in north and south America, she never had a colonoscopy and ended up dying from colon cancer.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Mar 29, 2016 11:39:36 GMT -5
BTW, as much as I think it's a really bad idea to try to cure meningitis with garlic and maple syrup, I can think of other examples of it being a really bad idea to pursue a purely Western style treatment for things as well. People who want to believe in alternative treatments seem to often fall into the trap of wanting to believe in hope without data. On the other hand, people who want to rely solely on Western style treatment seem to often fall into the trap of wanting to believe in easy fixes and that a pill or surgery will cure any problem.
It would be nice if we were to be able to have a blended approach that values both science and also focuses more on examining lifestyle and how small lifestyle factors can and should be structured for optimum health. But half the problem is knowing what the problem is. Naturopaths are not diagnosticians, so while most of the time they won't do no harm, you will get the occasional case where using them as a sole source of treatment can be fatal. This is the whole crux of the matter. Most of the stuff that is prescribed by naturopaths won't hurt, unless the person is in a place where they truly do need medical help. And by then, it might be too late.
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milee
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Post by milee on Mar 29, 2016 11:52:48 GMT -5
BTW, as much as I think it's a really bad idea to try to cure meningitis with garlic and maple syrup, I can think of other examples of it being a really bad idea to pursue a purely Western style treatment for things as well. People who want to believe in alternative treatments seem to often fall into the trap of wanting to believe in hope without data. On the other hand, people who want to rely solely on Western style treatment seem to often fall into the trap of wanting to believe in easy fixes and that a pill or surgery will cure any problem.
It would be nice if we were to be able to have a blended approach that values both science and also focuses more on examining lifestyle and how small lifestyle factors can and should be structured for optimum health. But half the problem is knowing what the problem is. Naturopaths are not diagnosticians, so while most of the time they won't do no harm, you will get the occasional case where using them as a sole source of treatment can be fatal. From the trends I'm seeing in traditional Western medicine, I think there's a risk that using it as the sole source of treatment can be fatal as well. Not only are many Osteopathic docs poor diagnosticians, the system that forces docs into very short examinations with little time for discussion or extensive examination makes it increasingly likely that diagnoses will be missed or that treatment will be inaccurate or incomplete.
Again, I think neither Osteo or Allo branches is the be-all-end-all. Room for improvement and sampling of both sides. It's best to view both with healthy skepticism and be your own best advocate. Which is part of the problem because in our current system often when you most need to be your best advocate you're too sick or scared to do a good job of it... part of why we could use some reform.
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sarcasticgirl
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Post by sarcasticgirl on Mar 29, 2016 12:09:06 GMT -5
I do a combo of both... I have a doctor that I love. She has helped me get off some chemical meds by using Natural supplements that gave me no side effect (the prescription stuff gave me horrible side effects) the natural stuff helped me make better progress. My blood work improved by leaps and bounds and I don't have to take any supplements for that issue any more.
My dr. also says "if I think you need chemicals, I will tell you!" And she has told me that my allergy meds are my best bet (she takes some too) but she also has helped me with diet and occasional acupuncture when things are really bad to help alleviate the pain.
I was anemic for years and my old dr. Never believed that I was taking my iron pills even though I was. My current doctor studied and researched my blood work and after 6 months figured out that my body wasn't processing fat solluable vitamins, change me to a different iron pill that was water solluable and BAM 3 months later I wasn't anemic anymore. I had a similar issue with vitamin D. Which my levels are now ideal and I am on a regimene.to start lowering doses to see if my levels stay stable without the aupplements.
Sent from my SM-G920T using proboards
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kittensaver
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Post by kittensaver on Mar 29, 2016 13:17:28 GMT -5
Well I respectfully disagree that naturopathic medicine is a poorly regulated industry.
But I also need to be clear here that there is a HUGE difference between naturopathy and Naturopathic Medicine.
Naturopathic Doctors (ND) are graduates of four year, accredited medical schools; they have the same book-learning and clinical training as MD's who are general practitioners or family medicine doctors. They actually have MORE training hours in their schooling than MD's because they take a couple hundred training hours in clinical nutrition that regular MD's don't get. They are fully licensed by the states that accredit them to operate (currently 17 + DC + Puerto Rico). Canada also licenses them and has a well-regarded school (CCNM).
Anyone who is interested can find out more here: www.naturopathic.org/content.asp?contentid=60
The naturopathic doctor I saw (he moved away a few years ago ) had not only his medical license, but also a furnishing license that allowed him to write prescriptions when necessary. While he was doing his post-degree residency at a well-known national cancer center, he wrote their manual on clinical nutrition and nutritional support for cancer patients. They still use that document today in their integrated treatment regimes. I would not call that a "poorly regulated" doctor.
He was actually the first person to get to the bottom of my "mystery" medical issues, and - gasp - FIXED them. The first time I met him, he spent TWO HOURS with me on an intensive intake, and he really LISTENED to me. It was revolutionary for me to be able to tell him what I wanted, rather than him spend 8 minutes on me and write me a few scrips.
The guy basically saved my life - when I first landed in his office, I'd been carrying disability papers around for about 6 weeks, trying to decide whether or not to file them. He pulled me back from the brink and gave me my life back. And no, that's not too dramatic of a statement. He helped me with a variety of interventions over the course of about 18 months. Along the way, I also had to take a hard look at how I was living (and not taking care of myself) and make some major lifestyle changes.
I had to jump in here and make this distinction because it's something that's near and dear to my heart (obviously).
"Naturopathy" cuts a wide swath across anything that is not formally sanctioned by the AMA (and don't get me started about them!!!), and while some therapies like chiropractic and acupuncture are licensed and have proven benefits, anyone with a piece of paper from an online program and a stash of herb bottles can call themselves a Naturopath. THAT is an unregulated industry and I agree that the buyer should beware.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Mar 29, 2016 13:20:38 GMT -5
I would only do it after I have exhausted Western style proven and scientific based medical approaches. That said, I have done acupuncture and have seen a chiro, etc. For some reason I was surprised to read this coming from you. I thought of you as more "crunchy" Damn it, this is the second time this week that I've been wrong!
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Mar 29, 2016 13:28:40 GMT -5
To answer OP - I do a combo of both
The "problem" with more natural approach that it usually takes longer to work and in some instances there is no time to wait.
As an example - while I wouldn't treat an existing infection with garlic, I would use garlic (among other things) to try prevent infections by building better immune system.
Another example - my Harvard trained OBFYN sent me to an acupuncturist to turn my baby when he was breached for the entire pregnancy. I will never know if that's what did the trick, but he turned at 40 wks which is usually unheard of as babies will settle in their positions by 36-37th week at the latest.
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milee
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Post by milee on Mar 29, 2016 13:34:53 GMT -5
Well I respectfully disagree that naturopathic medicine is a poorly regulated industry.
Not sure if you're responding to my post since I used the phrase "the industry is not well regulated", but if you are... re-read. That phrase refers to my description of herbal supplements and the herbal supplement manufacturers; there's nothing in that paragraph that refers to naturopaths. The comment related to herbal supplements.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Mar 29, 2016 14:31:43 GMT -5
To answer OP - I do a combo of both The "problem" with more natural approach that it usually takes longer to work and in some instances there is no time to wait. As an example - while I wouldn't treat an existing infection with garlic, I would use garlic (among other things) to try prevent infections by building better immune system. Another example - my Harvard trained OBFYN sent me to an acupuncturist to turn my baby when he was breached for the entire pregnancy. I will never know if that's what did the trick, but he turned at 40 wks which is usually unheard of as babies will settle in their positions by 36-37th week at the latest. So you eat garlic? That is not exactly witchcraft....
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Mar 29, 2016 14:37:03 GMT -5
I've tried several naturopathic cures, including lots of acupuncture. Homeopathy and healing herbs. Faith healing. It's all hokum. I suspect it's a lot like voodoo. If you think you can die, you can actually die. If you think it will cure, you'll feel better. For a little while. Placebo effect, nothing more.
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quince
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Post by quince on Mar 29, 2016 14:45:14 GMT -5
Placebo effect is awesome for some things, though. Pain management comes to mind. Not a substitute for diagnosis and treatment, but can be awesome.
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dannylion
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Post by dannylion on Mar 29, 2016 14:56:03 GMT -5
Many nonlethal ailments tend to get better on their own. It is probably for those ailments that naturopathy is most effective.
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sarcasticgirl
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Post by sarcasticgirl on Mar 29, 2016 14:58:44 GMT -5
I've tried several naturopathic cures, including lots of acupuncture. Homeopathy and healing herbs. Faith healing. It's all hokum. I suspect it's a lot like voodoo. If you think you can die, you can actually die. If you think it will cure, you'll feel better. For a little while. Placebo effect, nothing more. My blood work begs to differ... but believe what you will. Sent from my SM-G920T using proboards
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Tiny
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Post by Tiny on Mar 29, 2016 15:01:06 GMT -5
I've tried several naturopathic cures, including lots of acupuncture. Homeopathy and healing herbs. Faith healing. It's all hokum. I suspect it's a lot like voodoo. If you think you can die, you can actually die. If you think it will cure, you'll feel better. For a little while. Placebo effect, nothing more. To that effect - the movie An Honest Liar about James Randi was on TV last night. The part that struck me were the followers of the Peter Popoff (the Faith Healer) and Uri Geller (Psychic). Even with explanations of how the two guys did what they did - their followers wouldn't accept it. The refrain: You have to have "faith" or it won't work! was thrown back at Randi - of course the Healing/metal bending didn't work - Randi had no FAITH!
This struck me because the only other time I have heard I (or anyone) needed 'faith' to believe/feel/see/experience something was in discussions about my lack of belief in god(s). So, yes, God's still playing hide and seek with me... I gave up 'looking' along time ago - so if there is a god - He's gonna be hiding someplace for a very long time while he waits for me to find him. I hope he's got snacks and a magazine.
Sometimes people just get themselves to an altered state of mind (<-- I assume this) - where casting out the devil inflicting cancer on you is enough to get rid of the cancer - and that's how it works. end of discussion. Either that - or it's pure desperation...
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 29, 2016 15:01:34 GMT -5
I have a herniated disc, it was so bad at one point my leg was numb and I had foot flop. I was given a choice of surgery or chiro/PT/yoga/stretching.
I picked the chiro/PT/stretching. So far, so good. No more numbness, slight residual weakness, and some lingering pain. However, the surgery wasn't a sure thing either.
If I have a cold, I'm willing to try some herbs/supplements, or whatever. If I have cancer, give me the chemo and radiation.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Mar 29, 2016 15:02:00 GMT -5
Many nonlethal ailments tend to get better on their own. It is probably for those ailments that naturopathy is most effective. because they would have gotten better anyway............
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dannylion
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Post by dannylion on Mar 29, 2016 15:07:01 GMT -5
Many nonlethal ailments tend to get better on their own. It is probably for those ailments that naturopathy is most effective. because they would have gotten better anyway............ Um, yeah. That's what I was going for there. I probably should have stuck a smiley on there to identify it as sarcasm. The tone of voice I used in my head as I was composing it made the underlying meaning clear. I just didn't manage to get it onto the screen.
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