milee
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Post by milee on Feb 14, 2016 17:54:10 GMT -5
Well going along with that theory, we'd have to go back to post $27 and #29 where Ava mentions that it's against the law to name a child Hitler in her birth country and then Laterbloomer replies that she agrees but that the names being discussed are nowhere as bad as Hitler. Guess Ava and Laterbloomer lose, then.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2016 18:00:54 GMT -5
Little Hitler is a white male he literally cannot be discriminated against when applying for jobs, (assuming he is straight and not old at the time of application) I'm not sure who else can claim that. He's a perfect what if scenario for this discussion. Edit, changed was to is. The boy should be around 10ish now. according to some people (and some posters here) a white heterosexual male most definitely be discriminated against when applying for a job. It's called reverse discrimination, I believe.
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milee
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Post by milee on Feb 14, 2016 18:09:58 GMT -5
So, you don't approve of companies with "dark suit" dress codes? Do you not approve of places like McDonald's, Best Buy, and assorted really nice restaurants that require their employees to wear uniforms?? Or were you just disapproving of companies that opt to not hire the best qualified person because they feel that person isn't a good fit for the job? 2 points. 1. McDonalds, Best Buy and the assorted restaurants have their uniforms and dress codes so that the staff that will serve you is easily identifiable for the customer. 2. Yes, I disapprove of companies that opt to not hire the best qualified person because that person has not buckled under enough to follow their rules. Wearing colour does not make a person a bad fit, unless bad fit is code for not subservient enough. 1. And professional firms have dress codes so that the staff that will serve the customer is identifiable as a professional of that firm and that the firm isn't exposed (bit of a play on words) to ridicule should an employee wear an outfit that would be considered unprofessional. The firm wants to project an image and a suit is part of that image.
2. Why the concern and harping about an employee being "subservient" or a "stooge"? Most work environments have rules that correspond to the environment. The employees that work in labs are expected to follow the OSHA safety rules (even though some of them appear to be stupid and nonsensical). The employees that work at McDonalds are expected to follow the McDonald's dress and appearance rules (even though some of them appear to be stupid and nonsensical). And the employees that work in a corporate environment are expected to follow the rules of that company (even though...) It's OK if you don't like them. You can either not work at a place like that or you can get hired and be successful enough to work to change the system from within. When I started at a Big 6 firm in Phoenix back in the Ice Ages the dress code required women to wear suits with a skirt (no pants allowed) and hose. I followed that dress code until I had earned the respect of the managing partner and then worked with him to change those rules. Was it dumb to have to wear hose when it was 120 degrees? Yep. But I did it until I got the rules changed. No idea how it would have gone if I'd lobbied for pink tube tops to be allowed. Someone else will need to fight that good fight.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2016 19:57:35 GMT -5
Why are you obsessed with tube tops?
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milee
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Post by milee on Feb 14, 2016 19:58:51 GMT -5
Why are you obsessed with tube tops? Why are you obsessed with making this into an issue of racial discrimination?
Answer for both of us: it's a dramatic way for us to make a point.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2016 20:01:19 GMT -5
What point are you making about tube tops?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2016 20:05:24 GMT -5
Seriously, who isn't obsessed with tube tops?
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milee
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Post by milee on Feb 14, 2016 20:20:05 GMT -5
What point are you making about tube tops? That you agree that certain things are not professional. My point is that we both think certain things are not professional, we just disagree about what they are.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2016 20:22:32 GMT -5
What point are you making about tube tops? That you agree that certain things are not professional. My point is that we both think certain things are not professional, we just disagree about what they are. And? How does that address that what you are classifying as unprofessional is actually prejudice?
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milee
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Post by milee on Feb 14, 2016 20:22:36 GMT -5
Like the fallacy that this about race even though I keep explaining how it's not, providing many examples of how it's not (for what I'm describing anyway) and consistently citing descriptions of how this applies to a mindset not a race?
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milee
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Post by milee on Feb 14, 2016 20:23:12 GMT -5
That you agree that certain things are not professional. My point is that we both think certain things are not professional, we just disagree about what they are. And? How does that address that what you are classifying as unprofessional is actually prejudice? How is it more prejudice than deciding a tube top is not professional?
It's OK to think a tube top is not professional but you're a racist if you want your employee to wear a suit?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2016 20:26:29 GMT -5
And? How does that address that what you are classifying as unprofessional is actually prejudice? How is it more prejudice than deciding a tube top is not professional? Really? You can't understand how insisting that women and others mimic the behaviours and dress code of middle aged white men is a product of prejudice that is different than having a dress code that says don't wear beach wear to the office? ETA - and let's not forget to only use the approved list of names
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milee
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Post by milee on Feb 14, 2016 20:30:29 GMT -5
How is it more prejudice than deciding a tube top is not professional? Really? You can't understand how insisting that women and others mimic the behaviours and dress code of middle aged white men is a product of prejudice that is different than having a dress code that says don't wear beach wear to the office? Having worn a lot of each - suits and beach wear - no, I don't.
The reason certain corporations want their employees to wear suits is that a suit conveys a certain appearance for their professional employees. The exact same reason McDonald's wants its employees to wear a uniform - it creates a certain appearance for their employees. It is not prejudice and you're being really silly to read racism into this.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2016 20:35:41 GMT -5
I know. The appearance of cloning middle aged white men as closely as possible. The funny thing is that you have already agreed that saris, and turbans and wearing colour is not unprofessional. So why are you defending the dark coloured business suit so passionately? And also defending your prejudice of the mindset that you assume the names Hershey and Sparkle indicate, though you have no proof of that other than the names Hershey and Sparkle.
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milee
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Post by milee on Feb 14, 2016 20:36:14 GMT -5
ETA - and let's not forget to only use the approved list of names Another straw man... nobody's talked about an "approved" list of names but you.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2016 20:36:49 GMT -5
ETA - and let's not forget to only use the approved list of names Another straw man... nobody's talked about an "approved" list of names but you. THAT'S how the whole thread started!
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milee
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Post by milee on Feb 14, 2016 20:40:30 GMT -5
I know. The appearance of cloning middle aged white men as closely as possible. The funny thing is that you have already agreed that saris, and turbans and wearing colour is not unprofessional. So why are you defending the dark coloured business suit so passionately? And also defending your prejudice of the mindset that you assume the names Hershey and Sparkle indicate, though you have no proof of that other than the names Hershey and Sparkle. I'm defending the right of employers to require certain clothing. There's a difference in what I believe is acceptable attire and what some corporations believe is acceptable attire, but unlike you I do not declare my opinions to be correct and any that disagree with me to be incorrect and prejudiced. Overall, I believe as long as a company allows exceptions for religious attire and follows all safety and legal regulations, it's entirely within their right to require employees to wear certain clothes. Does that mean I'd wear those clothes or require the same dress code if I ran that company? Maybe not, but that doesn't make their decision wrong, improper or racist.
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milee
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Post by milee on Feb 14, 2016 20:44:00 GMT -5
Another straw man... nobody's talked about an "approved" list of names but you. THAT'S how the whole thread started! It is not. Nobody cited any list but you. Because it's not about the racist idea that only certain names are acceptable. My point is about the idea that certain names fall so outside norms that they are an indicator of the environment the kid was raised and steeped in for the first couple of decades of their life, which is a red flag for some employers.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2016 20:44:54 GMT -5
In some situations it does.
I get it. I got it 11 pages ago. Don't challenge the status quo.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2016 20:51:12 GMT -5
Yes. I grew up in the hood. I went to HS with a girl named Sparkle. Another one named Kamara (pronounced camera). Another one was named Dahomey. I'm sure I'll think of more later. Fair enough. But there is a difference between young/modern and ghetto. There's a long standing tradition of ghetto parents naming their kids socially inappropriate names. The only differences happen regionally; in your ghetto area was "Dahomey" and "Kamara", in a rural Southern setting it's names like "Misty" and "Bobbi Jo". Sorry, you were referring to a list of unacceptable names. Anyway, I'm really done with this conversation. When it gets to the point that people are not taking ownership of what they said the conversation is past the point of ridiculous. And when you repeatedly tell me that a preconceived idea of the mindset that a certain name indicates without a glimmer of recognising it as prejudice I'm not going to get anywhere. Good night
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milee
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Post by milee on Feb 14, 2016 20:52:46 GMT -5
I get it. I got it 11 pages ago. Don't challenge the status quo. Give me a break. Challenging the status quo is a lot different than accusing an employer of being racist for wanting a lawyer to wear a suit. I'm not especially PC or skilled at gentle debate, but trust me, when I went about changing the dress code of my stuffy CPA firm, I didn't start by accusing the managing partner of being a misogynist pig. I asked him why he was concerned about women wearing pant suits or wearing skirts without hose, listened to what he was worried about and crafted new rules that didn't prohibit pants or require hose, but kept the professional decorum that he was looking for. He wasn't a racist or misogynist, he just didn't have the language to craft an alternative and - not being the one to have to wear the stuff - didn't really care enough to take it on without some prodding.
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milee
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Post by milee on Feb 14, 2016 20:55:34 GMT -5
Fair enough. But there is a difference between young/modern and ghetto. There's a long standing tradition of ghetto parents naming their kids socially inappropriate names. The only differences happen regionally; in your ghetto area was "Dahomey" and "Kamara", in a rural Southern setting it's names like "Misty" and "Bobbi Jo". Sorry, you were referring to a list of unacceptable names. Anyway, I'm really done with this conversation. When it gets to the point that people are not taking ownership of what they said the conversation is past the point of ridiculous. And when you repeatedly tell me that a preconceived idea of the mindset that a certain name indicates without a glimmer of recognising it as prejudice I'm not going to get anywhere. Show me where I refer to a "list of unacceptable names". And while you're at it, show me where I refer to any sort of list of acceptable names (which you keep bringing up as a straw man to make it appear like a racist thing.)
What is ridiculous here is how you continue to make up, misquote and imply things that I have not said, which I have clearly refuted and which only come up because you want to advance your agenda.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Feb 14, 2016 21:26:01 GMT -5
I worked in a public accounting firm where peep toe heels was trailblazing. If you work in certain industries then people have certain expectations of how you will appear. I saved the pushing the envelope stuff for days in the office with no clients. Even today what I wear on meeting days, to training with outside groups, to audits and most certainly to court is different from some things I'll wear to the office. When one of my directors goes to testify before Congress they wear a suit and a tie not jeans and a T-shirt. I don't understand the hatred for a professional appearance.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2016 21:28:37 GMT -5
You don't wear your tube top to court? Sell out.
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wvugurl26
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Post by wvugurl26 on Feb 14, 2016 22:26:05 GMT -5
A well paid sell out. Seriously I wear whatever I want after hours. Most days I don't need a suit. Some days I do so I wear it then. They expect professional not hot pink bra under a white shirt.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Feb 15, 2016 9:53:54 GMT -5
...:::"They expect professional not hot pink bra under a white shirt.":::...
I wondered why I felt the sudden urge to sign on. Almost like I was being called!
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Feb 15, 2016 9:57:58 GMT -5
You don't wear your tube top to court? Sell out. I do.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Feb 15, 2016 10:01:22 GMT -5
...:::"What law is it that tells you when to pull out memes and dictionary definitions when you are faced with loosing an Internet argument, Rukh?":::...
Also, @sroo4 loses 2 points for use of "loosing".
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Feb 15, 2016 10:02:57 GMT -5
I see where Milee is coming from.
I spend a lot of time in Family Court. There are certain names that appear regularly on the abuse/neglect caseload that are not as widespread in the middle class population. Most of the families dragged into court on abuse/neglect are poor. They are also white, as my area is overwhelmingly white. It's not a racial issue, it's a socio-economic issue. And sadly, many of the kids raised in that socio-economic situation do not have the appropriate personal and social skills to be a good employee.
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8 Bit WWBG
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Post by 8 Bit WWBG on Feb 15, 2016 10:10:09 GMT -5
One of my relatives works in a health system and says the same, swamp. So far her favorite name has been "Krescent".
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