Ava
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 30, 2011 12:23:55 GMT -5
Posts: 4,176
|
Post by Ava on Feb 22, 2020 11:27:02 GMT -5
In the past 6 months my manager's been aggressive towards me I would say in 4 different occasions. The last 2 occurrences happened in the month since I've been back from vacation. So it's becoming more frequent. What generally happens is that he disagrees with me, has an explosive reaction, and then it blows over and he's normal with me again the next day.
I talked to him about it after the second occurrence, he apologized, and all was good for awhile.
This last Thursday, though, we were discussing a request at my cube, in the middle of an office filled with cubes, where you can hear everything. He disagreed with something I said, and then the worst happened. He started yelling really loud, saying how I drive him nuts, how he can't stand me when I argue, etc. He was very disrespectful, insulting even, and everybody heard him. I know that because a couple of people came over later to tell me what they thought of his reaction.
So yesterday he wasn't there, took a day off. On Monday I plan to go into his office and have a very serious conversation with him. He's getting into the habit of doing this to me, but he doesn't do it to any of my team members. I am not going to accept this sort of behavior. What I plan to tell him is exactly that, this isn't acceptable and I wont' have it. I'll tell him one more time he raises his voice at me and insults me, I'm going to HR with a discrimination complaint. Not empty threats, I mean it. I will do it if he continues.
I have already put two applications for internal jobs, and I plan to look for jobs outside the company this weekend.
I am so angry. I had a good thing going; I work independently, take all my vacation time together, work from home on snow days. It took me years to obtain all those perks.
Seven more years till I can take my 401k withdrawals without penalty and then I would move either to Miami or back home. I had it all planned out. And now someone behaves like that and ruins it for me. We used to get along great and I didn't ever suspect he was even capable of treating someone the way he treated me the other day. I know he's been through a lot in his personal life, but why take it on me? What makes him believe this is ok?
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Apr 26, 2024 9:58:09 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2020 12:08:23 GMT -5
Ava Wow. Sounds like there's something going on with him that really has nothing to do with you, but that he sees you as a place he can unload without consequences. Could that be it? When you talk to him maybe bring up that others in the office came to you after the fact and mentioned his behavior toward you. Good luck in your conversation with him. Is this an occasion where the magic wand needs to be employed? I was surprised to see that you have only seven years before you can take 401k withdrawals without penalty. I honestly thought that you hadn't even turned 40 yet.
|
|
Ava
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 30, 2011 12:23:55 GMT -5
Posts: 4,176
|
Post by Ava on Feb 22, 2020 12:52:53 GMT -5
Ava Wow. Sounds like there's something going on with him that really has nothing to do with you, but that he sees you as a place he can unload without consequences. Could that be it? When you talk to him maybe bring up that others in the office came to you after the fact and mentioned his behavior toward you. Good luck in your conversation with him. Is this an occasion where the magic wand needs to be employed? I was surprised to see that you have only seven years before you can take 401k withdrawals without penalty. I honestly thought that you hadn't even turned 40 yet. There are several things going on with him, but none of them has anything to do with me. Even if there was some relation with his problem, that doesn't give him the right to insult and raise his voice. Somehow, for some reason, he sees me as an easy target. But I refuse to become a victim. I'm going to have very stern words with him on Monday. There are witnesses, his behavior is inappropriate and discriminatory, and if it happens again there will be consequences. I am not bluffing, if he does it again there will be consequences. I'm too old and I have made many sacrifices in my life to end up as someone's punching bag. When a manager suddenly starts acting as a bully, you have to stop them. I'm not going to put up with this behavior. I am 47 right now, and my birthday is at the end of November. So, since it's possible to take money from a 401k the year the person turns 55, I'm eligible on January 1, 2027. On that year, I plan to move out of here, either to Miami and keep working a few years, or outright back home for good.
|
|
Ava
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 30, 2011 12:23:55 GMT -5
Posts: 4,176
|
Post by Ava on Feb 22, 2020 13:09:20 GMT -5
Ava Wow. Sounds like there's something going on with him that really has nothing to do with you, but that he sees you as a place he can unload without consequences. Could that be it? When you talk to him maybe bring up that others in the office came to you after the fact and mentioned his behavior toward you. Good luck in your conversation with him. Is this an occasion where the magic wand needs to be employed? I was surprised to see that you have only seven years before you can take 401k withdrawals without penalty. I honestly thought that you hadn't even turned 40 yet. Yes, I think the magic wand should be employed on Monday
|
|
Rukh O'Rorke
Senior Associate
Joined: Jul 4, 2016 13:31:15 GMT -5
Posts: 10,030
|
Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Feb 22, 2020 14:20:43 GMT -5
Sorry Ava!!
|
|
TheOtherMe
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 14:40:52 GMT -5
Posts: 27,167
Mini-Profile Name Color: e619e6
|
Post by TheOtherMe on Feb 22, 2020 15:10:03 GMT -5
Think carefully before filing a discrimination complaint. It will most likely be the end of your career there.
|
|
seriousthistime
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 20:27:07 GMT -5
Posts: 4,707
|
Post by seriousthistime on Feb 22, 2020 15:16:37 GMT -5
Ava, does your company have rules or standards of conduct that require people to treat others with courtesy and respect?
|
|
Ava
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 30, 2011 12:23:55 GMT -5
Posts: 4,176
|
Post by Ava on Feb 22, 2020 15:23:24 GMT -5
|
|
Ava
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 30, 2011 12:23:55 GMT -5
Posts: 4,176
|
Post by Ava on Feb 22, 2020 15:26:18 GMT -5
Think carefully before filing a discrimination complaint. It will most likely be the end of your career there. It's not something I would take lightly. And I really hope I never have to do it, either because he changes his behavior after our conversation, or because I find another job before he snaps again. But see, it shouldn't be this way. On top of all that, you have to worry about career prospects if a manager is harassing you? How am I in the wrong when someone suddenly starts yelling and insulting?
|
|
Ava
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 30, 2011 12:23:55 GMT -5
Posts: 4,176
|
Post by Ava on Feb 22, 2020 15:27:23 GMT -5
Ava , does your company have rules or standards of conduct that require people to treat others with courtesy and respect? I don't know what you mean. Isn't it expected that you treat other human beings with courtesy and respect?
|
|
Ava
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 30, 2011 12:23:55 GMT -5
Posts: 4,176
|
Post by Ava on Feb 22, 2020 15:32:02 GMT -5
If he did this to everyone in the team, is a one thing, a bad one.
But it's a completely different situation when the manager starts to single out a particular employee and taking their rage on that person.
That's what's happening to me. And it will continue if I don't stop it.
At first I was sad and in tears, but now my self respect is taking over. I don't have to put up with that, and I won't.
|
|
Rukh O'Rorke
Senior Associate
Joined: Jul 4, 2016 13:31:15 GMT -5
Posts: 10,030
|
Post by Rukh O'Rorke on Feb 22, 2020 15:36:36 GMT -5
There’s already a pattern. You have witnesses for this one.
Maybe time for HR.
|
|
plugginaway22
Well-Known Member
Joined: Jan 2, 2011 10:18:42 GMT -5
Posts: 1,655
|
Post by plugginaway22 on Feb 22, 2020 15:39:33 GMT -5
I agree, with witnesses and it being more than one time, I would file a complaint.
|
|
Ava
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 30, 2011 12:23:55 GMT -5
Posts: 4,176
|
Post by Ava on Feb 22, 2020 15:45:58 GMT -5
Yes, I have witnesses. Three of them told me. I know of other two who must have heard it because of where their desks are. There's no way they didn't hear.
Anyway, going through a formal complaint process is the last thing I want to do. My next action is let him know Monday where we stand, and to explain the next episode will have consequences. Hopefully that stops it.
|
|
swamp
Community Leader
Don't be a fool. Call me!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,309
|
Post by swamp on Feb 22, 2020 16:17:30 GMT -5
Ava Wow. Sounds like there's something going on with him that really has nothing to do with you, but that he sees you as a place he can unload without consequences. Could that be it? When you talk to him maybe bring up that others in the office came to you after the fact and mentioned his behavior toward you. Good luck in your conversation with him. Is this an occasion where the magic wand needs to be employed? I was surprised to see that you have only seven years before you can take 401k withdrawals without penalty. I honestly thought that you hadn't even turned 40 yet. Yes, I think the magic wand should be employed on Monday screw the magic wand. You want a magic baseball bat upside his head.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Apr 26, 2024 9:58:09 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2020 16:21:11 GMT -5
swamp Hey, wait just a damn minute! Are you casting aspersions upon the effectiveness of my magic wand? What? It's a perfectly good magic wand, dammit.
|
|
TheOtherMe
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 24, 2010 14:40:52 GMT -5
Posts: 27,167
Mini-Profile Name Color: e619e6
|
Post by TheOtherMe on Feb 22, 2020 16:27:51 GMT -5
Think carefully before filing a discrimination complaint. It will most likely be the end of your career there. It's not something I would take lightly. And I really hope I never have to do it, either because he changes his behavior after our conversation, or because I find another job before he snaps again. But see, it shouldn't be this way. On top of all that, you have to worry about career prospects if a manager is harassing you? How am I in the wrong when someone suddenly starts yelling and insulting? It shouldn't be the way you have described. I have worked for managers who yelled. I hated it. You have witnesses, but will they be willing to put their career on the line? Where I've worked, people decide they can't risk their career to sign anything or tell HR anything because HR is not their friend and they know it.
|
|
seriousthistime
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 20:27:07 GMT -5
Posts: 4,707
|
Post by seriousthistime on Feb 22, 2020 17:48:15 GMT -5
Ava , does your company have rules or standards of conduct that require people to treat others with courtesy and respect? I don't know what you mean. Isn't it expected that you treat other human beings with courtesy and respect? Sure, it's expected. But is there something in writing to reinforce it so that when someone yells at you, you can show the person is violating a written workplace rule? At my workplace, we have such a rule. It doesn't stop supervisors from yelling at their subordinates, but does usually stop them from doing it within earshot of others. I say "usually" because sometimes they get out of control and completely lose it.
|
|
Ava
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 30, 2011 12:23:55 GMT -5
Posts: 4,176
|
Post by Ava on Feb 22, 2020 19:16:55 GMT -5
Yes, I think the magic wand should be employed on Monday screw the magic wand. You want a magic baseball bat upside his head. Too funny!!!
|
|
Ava
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 30, 2011 12:23:55 GMT -5
Posts: 4,176
|
Post by Ava on Feb 22, 2020 19:19:43 GMT -5
It's not something I would take lightly. And I really hope I never have to do it, either because he changes his behavior after our conversation, or because I find another job before he snaps again. But see, it shouldn't be this way. On top of all that, you have to worry about career prospects if a manager is harassing you? How am I in the wrong when someone suddenly starts yelling and insulting? It shouldn't be the way you have described. I have worked for managers who yelled. I hated it. You have witnesses, but will they be willing to put their career on the line? Where I've worked, people decide they can't risk their career to sign anything or tell HR anything because HR is not their friend and they know it. HR is never your friend. We all know it. And I don't want to put any of my co workers in a difficult position. My hope is that this situation doesn't escalate any more.
|
|
Ava
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 30, 2011 12:23:55 GMT -5
Posts: 4,176
|
Post by Ava on Feb 22, 2020 19:21:02 GMT -5
I don't know what you mean. Isn't it expected that you treat other human beings with courtesy and respect? Sure, it's expected. But is there something in writing to reinforce it so that when someone yells at you, you can show the person is violating a written workplace rule? At my workplace, we have such a rule. It doesn't stop supervisors from yelling at their subordinates, but does usually stop them from doing it within earshot of others. I say "usually" because sometimes they get out of control and completely lose it. I don't know if there's any written statement. Wow, supervisors regularly yell at subordinates? I must work in a charmed place, because what happened to my this week is extremely infrequent here.
|
|
Ava
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 30, 2011 12:23:55 GMT -5
Posts: 4,176
|
Post by Ava on Feb 22, 2020 19:24:54 GMT -5
Anyway, I talked to a friend from back home
She told me to look at it in perspective.
After all, I only plan to stay in this area 7 more years and then I'm gone.
So, he either changes his tune after our conversation, or he doesn't and I have to find another job at the same company or somewhere else. It's only 7 years, less than that by the time I find a job and start working. Yes, I'll have to say goodbye to my perks but it would be for a limited time. Do I want to start over at a new job? No. Can I do it? Yes.
What I can't do is let someone mistreat me.
I'll let you guys know how it goes on Monday.
|
|
andi9899
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 6, 2011 10:22:29 GMT -5
Posts: 30,379
|
Post by andi9899 on Feb 22, 2020 20:26:09 GMT -5
Think carefully before filing a discrimination complaint. It will most likely be the end of your career there. It's not something I would take lightly. And I really hope I never have to do it, either because he changes his behavior after our conversation, or because I find another job before he snaps again. But see, it shouldn't be this way. On top of all that, you have to worry about career prospects if a manager is harassing you? How am I in the wrong when someone suddenly starts yelling and insulting? Yes, you have to worry about your job if you complain. I complained about a horrible manager I had once. She targeted me and made my life hell for the next year and eventually I was fired. Her manager was well aware as was HR. The best time to complain about your manager is in your exit interview.
|
|
seriousthistime
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 22, 2010 20:27:07 GMT -5
Posts: 4,707
|
Post by seriousthistime on Feb 22, 2020 20:26:33 GMT -5
Sure, it's expected. But is there something in writing to reinforce it so that when someone yells at you, you can show the person is violating a written workplace rule? At my workplace, we have such a rule. It doesn't stop supervisors from yelling at their subordinates, but does usually stop them from doing it within earshot of others. I say "usually" because sometimes they get out of control and completely lose it. I don't know if there's any written statement. Wow, supervisors regularly yell at subordinates? I must work in a charmed place, because what happened to my this week is extremely infrequent here. Yeah, out of about 20 people I supervise, 10% of them are known to have hollered at their subordinates more than once in recent history. Out of the supervisors that are not in my line of supervision, I'd say the odds are about the same.
|
|
Works4me
Senior Member
Someone responded to your personal ad - a German Shepherd named Tara wants to have you for dinner...
Joined: May 5, 2012 12:11:37 GMT -5
Posts: 2,522
|
Post by Works4me on Feb 22, 2020 20:43:46 GMT -5
Sure, it's expected. But is there something in writing to reinforce it so that when someone yells at you, you can show the person is violating a written workplace rule? At my workplace, we have such a rule. It doesn't stop supervisors from yelling at their subordinates, but does usually stop them from doing it within earshot of others. I say "usually" because sometimes they get out of control and completely lose it. I don't know if there's any written statement. Wow, supervisors regularly yell at subordinates? I must work in a charmed place, because what happened to my this week is extremely infrequent here. It would be in the Employee Handbook which are normally handed out at New Hire Orientation and they even have you sign that you received one. It might also be posted on their Intranet. Good Luck!
|
|
gs11rmb
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 21, 2010 12:43:39 GMT -5
Posts: 3,303
|
Post by gs11rmb on Feb 24, 2020 8:45:50 GMT -5
Ava either before or immediately after your meeting I'd put everything in an email to your boss. I get that you don't want to go to HR right now but I think it's important that you establish a paper trail and document what he said and did. Why is his behaviour discriminatory and not just that of an obnoxious asshole?
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,226
Member is Online
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 24, 2020 8:52:07 GMT -5
Why is his behaviour discriminatory and not just that of an obnoxious asshole? To be able to claim it is discriminatory you are going to have to provide evidence that the reason he is treating you the way he is is related to you being a member of a protected class. Be aware discrimination cases are very difficult to prove and I would have one foot out the door already if you plan on filing one.
|
|
Wisconsin Beth
Distinguished Associate
No, we don't walk away. But when we're holding on to something precious, we run.
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 11:59:36 GMT -5
Posts: 30,626
|
Post by Wisconsin Beth on Feb 24, 2020 8:52:23 GMT -5
Ava either before or immediately after your meeting I'd put everything in an email to your boss. I get that you don't want to go to HR right now but I think it's important that you establish a paper trail and document what he said and did. Why is his behaviour discriminatory and not just that of an obnoxious asshole? I'm wondering if it's more harassment vs. discriminatory myself.
|
|
NomoreDramaQ1015
Community Leader
Joined: Dec 20, 2010 14:26:32 GMT -5
Posts: 47,226
Member is Online
|
Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Feb 24, 2020 10:07:47 GMT -5
DH starts his new job today. Of course that means he's sick and Gwen projectile vomited last night. He doped himself up with Dayquil and off to my mom's she went.
I told him take lots of notes and ask questions. Glad I remembered to get a check from the bank last weekend. I don't order large amounts of checks because pretty much the only time we use them anymore is if we switch jobs.
Hope he likes it. While the situation sucked and did cause us a lot of strife maritally I think in the end he is better off away from the old place. Here he can start fresh with nobody knowing his history and hopefully won't be quite as at risk of relapse since many of his triggers were related to that job in particular.
|
|
shanendoah
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 19:44:48 GMT -5
Posts: 10,096
Mini-Profile Name Color: 0c3563
|
Post by shanendoah on Feb 24, 2020 13:06:37 GMT -5
Ava - Honestly, I am not certain your boss should get one more chance. You have already talked to him once, and it did not work. However, if you did not document that meeting (an email to your boss right after going over what you discussed is best, but even if you wrote a document on your computer - something that has a timestamp, that would work), then you probably are not going to get very far with HR, even with witnesses, because this could still be painted as a "one time" thing. So now is the time to start documenting. You've likely already had your meeting with your boss today (due to our time difference). Send him a follow-up email going over exactly what you discussed. Send it. Write a document on your computer that describes what happened last week. Note the names of the witnesses, both those who came to talk to you and those who you think heard, as well. You do not deserve to be treated like this, and documentation is your friend when it comes to dealing with HR.
Now, I am going to add in my thoughts about it being a discrimination complaint. Unless his remarks to you during these blow-ups have been discriminatory, I don't think this is a case of discrimination. It is one of harassment.
And going back to one of the first comments about the reason you are being "targeted". I do not think it has anything to do with you, but it could very well have a lot to do with your relationship with your boss. You have mentioned in the past that he has been a friend to you, and that the two of you have a very good working relationship. Please note, this is not a bad thing. But that exact closeness could be the reason he is blowing up at you and not someone else on the team. A level of comfort with people makes us more likely to behave badly toward them. This is the same idea that we behave differently at work, or even out with co-workers, than we do when we are out with our close friends. Or the idea that young kids, after having been very good at school all day come home and melt down. In a sense, you are the "safe space" for your boss. Your relationship is established enough that he feels has has more leeway in the way he treats you. So, you have become the outlet for his stress at work. And that is a bad thing.
As for being worried about retaliation if you go to HR, please remember that retaliation in harassment complaints is against the law. If you go to HR and later feel your boss or HR are treating you poorly because of it, you could have a retaliation complaint, which could lead to a lawsuit against the whole company. It is not what I would want or hope for you, but it is a thing to remember.
Depending on HR's response to your complaint, you might want to start looking at employment law attorneys in your area. Like it or not, sometimes simply having an attorney's card to hand to an HR person and saying "You'll be hearing from my lawyer" can have a major impact on how things are handled.
|
|