The Job Hunt Thread

[azucena]

Drama - there's no way you're a problem employee. You know that. Even with some concessions for the life events you've been dealing with, you're not one to take advantage. Your manager is just completely inept and likely overcompensating for her own insecurities. Try to tune her out as much as possible.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Maybe. She throws coworkers under the bus saying they told her X and Y. So I grabbed the bull by the horns on that one and asked them directly do they have a problem with my work? Am I causing issues?

Because I want to know and feel it should be talked about to my face not dumped on me out of the blue by my manager.

I already knew the answer. If I was as shifty as she says my coworkers wouldn't circle the wagon every time she does it.

Cause speaking again of the coworker who is a train wreck how people interact with him is quite different compared to me. Nobody is happy with him and his work.

I debate on the value of going to HR. There has been a big culture push to not talk to HR you need to talk to your manager and seems enforced by HR given the last time I tried.

Same with going to my manager's manager.

I'll wait to see if the other company calls me here, see what they say and go from there.

I have really really tried to reflect on my performance all night and can't draw the same conclusions. I'm pretty decent at owning my mistakes so I don't think I'm in denial or mentally ill enough I can't see reality.

I need to see how much we have in the HSA I might reactivate my therapist sessions. This has really sent me into a spiral.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Because it is my nature and I had a lot of free time in the basement I obsessed some more.

It seems any time I get this lecture it's right after something good happens.

The first time I was told I was a walking disaster was right after the director and a few other higher ups recommended me for the associate micro position.

Two weeks later I'm the biggest POS ever.

This one follows me completing my first big project. I actually got a shout out during the big departmental meeting that's lead by our head honcho.

Two weeks later...

It's like if I get any shred of recognition she has to remind me I'm an idiot.

Maybe I should talk to her manager. I don't have to make it about her but I would like to hear if I'm actually three steps away from a PIP or termination from someone else.

Because I don't like this. I deserve to have procedure followed even if I suck. I get different messages about me from everyone I work with. She's the only one who claims I'm a crappy employee who can't listen or change.

So which is it?

Then even if she just has a stick up her ass DH and my dad are right this is not something I want to be stuck under long term. She's not going anywhere or changing so unless I can get myself moved out from under her to someone else, which I'd unlikely, then I need to move.

I calmed down some. DH carries our benefits now so that's a huge weight off my shoulders. I could probably very easily go back to waiting tables. Pizza king is desperate for servers right now.

I did apply for the associate scientist at the other company too. Since it involves immunology/histology products I think I'm pretty well suited.

It wouldn't be fun but we will survive it's not like last time. DH has his shit together and is even working towards a promotion himself.

Sorry for the multiple monologs I'm using these as my sounding board. DH is staying with FIL tonight so he's not around to talk his ear off. I need to get my thoughts organized.

[azucena]

Drama - that's a telling, completely sucky pattern.

[giramomma]

I would just let it be, Drama. I wouldn't go talking to other managers. 

I get the cognitive dissonance that is driving you crazy. I get the obsessing thing. And I do it too when things don't make sense, because I need them to make sense. That's when I need to figure out how to have radical acceptance of the situation. If I'm going to survive, I have to change my response because that's the only thing I have control over. 

I don't get into trouble for keeping my head down and engaging with exactly 0 people. Nor do I get into trouble when I keep remembering that my supervisor does not want to be in a relationship with me. 

When I fail to be vigilant about these things is when stuff happens. And it doesn't matter if it's literally the only mistake I make a year. 

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

Apr 27, 2024 6:58:13 GMT -5 giramomma said:

I would just let it be, Drama. I wouldn't go talking to other managers. 

I get the cognitive dissonance that is driving you crazy. I get the obsessing thing. And I do it too when things don't make sense, because I need them to make sense. That's when I need to figure out how to have radical acceptance of the situation. If I'm going to survive, I have to change my response because that's the only thing I have control over. 

I don't get into trouble for keeping my head down and engaging with exactly 0 people. Nor do I get into trouble when I keep remembering that my supervisor does want to be in a relationship with me. 

When I fail to be vigilant about these things is when stuff happens. And it doesn't matter if it's literally the only mistake I make a year. 

That's good advice. Who needs to pay for therapy? 😉

[giramomma]

Actually, I've been thinking about looking into coaching as a field to retrain into.

[NomoreDramaQ1015]

I'm going to take the advice and be a good little micromanaged worker bee.

At least thru review time because she's threatening to give me a really bad one if I don't behave.

Then I'm going to use the energy I planned on putting into "going above and beyond" and trying to get promoted into looking elsewhere.

IF I an still there I may try for the associate positions if they ever open and see what happens.

She wouldn't be my direct manager anymore for either of those unless they restructure.

Either way I'm at least at the moment done caring again. I'll go through the motions and let her eat it up.

And they bitch about people not being motivated to go above and beyond. Why are people leaving? Why are you all unhappy? Why are our survey results the worst in the entire company?

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Wanted to follow up with you all about the promotion I applied for late 23/early24. Recap - my mother's health took a bad turn and it was very difficult for me to complete the interviews, etc. and I didn't do so well in the second round, although nothing to be too ashamed about. Just not my usual sparkling and witty self  .

And I did not get the promotion. However, I have a 2-part follow up.

Part 1: I am very glad that I saw the process through and did the best I could, because otherwise I would wonder about it now that I am not too thrilled with my new boss. He is sweeping in and acting like we are a bunch of dumb slackers he needs to whip into shape to tackle all the stuff we haven't gotten to - rather than the realization that we have been understaffed for years and only keeping out heads above water due to a high degree of talent and good work ethics. There are no kudos to what we've accomplished with a shoestring staff and it is ticking me off a bit, to be honest. He does bring a lot of industry experience and knowledge and I think has a lot to offer us. But the path he is on to do that leaves something to be desired.

Part 2: in an interesting twist, my former boss mentioned in passing at our last 1-1 meeting that maybe once new boss moves on in 2 years that I would then step up to the role if I was still interested. I said I was! So something about this new boss being something of a short term change manager and then I learn a few things and take over? Kind of weird, but who knows? If I am still needing to work it will be an interesting move to make. Not sure if this was her plan all along, or if she is seeing some flaws in his proposed path like I am?

At any rate, new boss wants some time in the office so I will not be fully remote any more. I'm not thrilled about that, but it won't be too frequently and hopefully I won't hate it too much.

[Ava]

I got a job offer on Friday.

The job is a 15% salary increase. It's hybrid with the expectation of being in the office 2 to 3 days a week. Commute time is 12 minutes.

Bonus is minimal. They told me it depends on company performance, but I think is around 5% of salary.
Current job has a bonus target of 10% but I've been getting 8%.

Insurance is double the premium than current job. They have several plans, but they have a narrow network. My doctor is not in any of them. They also have a PPO which would allow me to see her, but probably the visit will be more expensive.

HSA employer contribution is $800 versus $400 current job.

PTO is 16 days a year versus 30 days current job.
I told them about the vacation I already scheduled for December/January and they had no issue with it.

Honestly, I would love to stay at current company but in a different group.
I put in an application for an internal job at the end of April. I went through the interview process and I was told they had more candidates to interview and then they would make a decision.
That was on May 7th. So Friday I sent an email to the HR rep and told her I am very interested in that job but I received an external offer and would like an update before making a decision.

My job has become so toxic that I have to leave.
The latest one is two weeks ago I was working at the office, and both my manager and the new manager were there. My manager approached me and said they needed to have a talk with me in the conference room. I thought I was going to be let go.

But when we got to the conference room, both of them were there, and they started asking me questions. Why didn't you accept the demotion, etc. It went really bad really fast. They started screaming. My manager kept asking me "why do you think I'm a bad manager" and I told him, you're aggressive and get angry when someone doesn't agree with you. He got angry (of course). They both continued screaming.
When I left the conference room several of my coworkers were right outside the door and asked me if I was ok. I told them that I was ok.

It rubs me the wrong way that our higher ups were in office that day and not one of them stopped them. The screaming could be heard from outside the conference room.

It took all I have to not collapse in a panic attack when I got out of the room. I went out a walk, then I went to the cafeteria, drank a coffee and sat down for a while. I went back to my desk and continued working. I haven't crossed any words with either of them since that day.

Whatever they think of me as an employee, I'm a human being and I don't deserve to be treated like that. 
And if they wanted a serious conversation and solutions, they should have included an HR rep in the meeting.
Looking back, it feels like an ambush and pure bulling.

Things have deteriorated even more since this person became a manager. They both feed off each other and bring out the worst of themselves.
Last week, a team member approached me and said he's having anxiety just thinking about the job responsibilities and the endless list of tasks. He's only 23, and I told him please don't get anxiety over this job. It's not worth it. Do the best you can and enjoy the rest of your time.

Sorry for the long post, but I needed this.

I'm sad I'll probably wont have a chance to wait around for the internal job. But I need to leave current work environment, so I'm thinking of accepting the external job offer.

[finnime]

I'm glad for you that you have this choice, Ava. It sounds good.

[resolution]

Jun 2, 2024 9:35:13 GMT -5 Ava said:

But when we got to the conference room, both of them were there, and they started asking me questions. Why didn't you accept the demotion, etc. It went really bad really fast. They started screaming. My manager kept asking me "why do you think I'm a bad manager" and I told him, you're aggressive and get angry when someone doesn't agree with you. He got angry (of course). They both continued screaming.
When I left the conference room several of my coworkers were right outside the door and asked me if I was ok. I told them that I was ok.

It rubs me the wrong way that our higher ups were in office that day and not one of them stopped them. The screaming could be heard from outside the conference room.

I know you would prefer to stay with this company, but those managers weren't accidental hires that happen to be bullies. Your employer is somehow selecting for these traits when they hire managers. I am so glad that you have a good offer from another company.

[jerseygirl]

Ava, So happy you will be out of that very toxic company
Just so terrible what they did to you - screaming so loud others heard - outrageous

[azucena]

Ava - chances are your toxic managers will find a way to sabotage internal job, so pls accept the external one. After that, I wouldn't sit with either manager without HR present.

I've been in professional jobs since 2001 and have never once heard someone getting screamed at. It's so far out of line that I can't even picture it. But I realize I might just have had luck on my side.

[seriousthistime]

Having supervised high-level supervisors, I would absolutely not tolerate that situation.  If I had been around and the yelling could be heard through the closed door, I would have knocked on the door and then entered, and ended the meeting, excused the employee, and had a serious disciplinary talk with the managers.  The fact that their higher-ups could hear it and did nothing tells me this is the MO for the company and they are fine with it.  Best to get out ASAP.

FYI, I actually did handle something similar at my last job, ended a meeting a supervisor was having with a team member.  They were in the supervisor's office and the supervisor was yelling -- with the door open, disrupting 12 people in cubicles right outside the office. The male employee was near tears.  Not only did I have a stern talking-to with the supervisor on the spot, I initiated disciplinary proceedings.  

There is simply no excuse for that, especially in a professional environment. 

The employer may or may not be selecting for these traits, as resolution says.  Sometimes it's impossible to tell how people run when you hire them.  I worked with the nicest, most helpful and extremely competent person for some years.  You would never have guessed he was a hot head. I didn't realize until I spoke to someone on his team.  She made a comment about how everything was great until S started yelling. I was shocked.  

In your exit interview, I would be sure to mention this and even bring a letter of complaint that they may or may not choose to follow up on. 

People are always complaining about how people don't want to work anymore (since the pandemic).  I disagree.  People don't want to be treated like crap.  There is no loyalty toward an employer that treats employees like crap.

[Ava]

I'm going to sign the offer letter today.

I'm happy I have a good offer. Above all I'm relieved.

I told new company I can start in 3 weeks.
Putting my notice Monday morning.
Will continue to work 2 more weeks and then take off before starting new job.

I don't feel like working for them 2 more weeks, but I want to remain professional and help as much as I can with the transition.

I'm the 3rd employee in à group of 8 to leave in the past 7 month. They still have an empty position from the last person who left in April.

[ken a.k.a OMK]

Ava Their actions are inexcusable. BTW don't be surprised if they let you go when you resign. Be prepared to walk out. The new job sounds like a good start over for your mental state.

[steph08]

Good for you, Ava. I'm glad you are getting out of that toxic environment.

Eventually leadership will catch on (hopefully). We had a new manager come in and four people left within six months from a small group. They finally fired her after multiple HR complaints, but you could tell that the rest of us left forced their hand. There were layoffs after that that didn't seem coincidental.

I'm glad for your mental health that you are getting out of there.

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Jun 2, 2024 9:35:13 GMT -5 Ava said:

I got a job offer on Friday.

The job is a 15% salary increase. It's hybrid with the expectation of being in the office 2 to 3 days a week. Commute time is 12 minutes.

Bonus is minimal. They told me it depends on company performance, but I think is around 5% of salary.
Current job has a bonus target of 10% but I've been getting 8%.

Insurance is double the premium than current job. They have several plans, but they have a narrow network. My doctor is not in any of them. They also have a PPO which would allow me to see her, but probably the visit will be more expensive.

HSA employer contribution is $800 versus $400 current job.

PTO is 16 days a year versus 30 days current job.
I told them about the vacation I already scheduled for December/January and they had no issue with it.

Honestly, I would love to stay at current company but in a different group.
I put in an application for an internal job at the end of April. I went through the interview process and I was told they had more candidates to interview and then they would make a decision.
That was on May 7th. So Friday I sent an email to the HR rep and told her I am very interested in that job but I received an external offer and would like an update before making a decision.

My job has become so toxic that I have to leave.
The latest one is two weeks ago I was working at the office, and both my manager and the new manager were there. My manager approached me and said they needed to have a talk with me in the conference room. I thought I was going to be let go.

But when we got to the conference room, both of them were there, and they started asking me questions. Why didn't you accept the demotion, etc. It went really bad really fast. They started screaming. My manager kept asking me "why do you think I'm a bad manager" and I told him, you're aggressive and get angry when someone doesn't agree with you. He got angry (of course). They both continued screaming.
When I left the conference room several of my coworkers were right outside the door and asked me if I was ok. I told them that I was ok.

It rubs me the wrong way that our higher ups were in office that day and not one of them stopped them. The screaming could be heard from outside the conference room.

It took all I have to not collapse in a panic attack when I got out of the room. I went out a walk, then I went to the cafeteria, drank a coffee and sat down for a while. I went back to my desk and continued working. I haven't crossed any words with either of them since that day.

Whatever they think of me as an employee, I'm a human being and I don't deserve to be treated like that. 
And if they wanted a serious conversation and solutions, they should have included an HR rep in the meeting.
Looking back, it feels like an ambush and pure bulling.

Things have deteriorated even more since this person became a manager. They both feed off each other and bring out the worst of themselves.
Last week, a team member approached me and said he's having anxiety just thinking about the job responsibilities and the endless list of tasks. He's only 23, and I told him please don't get anxiety over this job. It's not worth it. Do the best you can and enjoy the rest of your time.

Sorry for the long post, but I needed this.

I'm sad I'll probably wont have a chance to wait around for the internal job. But I need to leave current work environment, so I'm thinking of accepting the external job offer.

AVA!!!!!

Have you accepted the job offer?? Do it now!

Maybe counter with an extra week of vacation time and see what they say.

Get out of the place you are in!! 

[daisylu]

Jun 2, 2024 10:55:23 GMT -5 Ava said:

I'm going to sign the offer letter today.

I'm happy I have a good offer. Above all I'm relieved.

I told new company I can start in 3 weeks.
Putting my notice Monday morning.
Will continue to work 2 more weeks and then take off before starting new job.

I don't feel like working for them 2 more weeks, but I want to remain professional and help as much as I can with the transition.

I'm the 3rd employee in à group of 8 to leave in the past 7 month. They still have an empty position from the last person who left in April.

I'd be prepared - many times in office profession positions they will walk you out as soon as put in notice. 

Happy that you are moving on though! 

[Rukh O'Rorke]

Jun 2, 2024 10:55:23 GMT -5 Ava said:

I'm going to sign the offer letter today.

I'm happy I have a good offer. Above all I'm relieved.

I told new company I can start in 3 weeks.
Putting my notice Monday morning.
Will continue to work 2 more weeks and then take off before starting new job.

I don't feel like working for them 2 more weeks, but I want to remain professional and help as much as I can with the transition.

I'm the 3rd employee in à group of 8 to leave in the past 7 month. They still have an empty position from the last person who left in April.

Whew!!

Get out of there!!

[debthaven]

I'm just thrilled for you Ava !!! Good riddance to them!

I think they were hoping to bully you enough so that you leave of your own accord.

And you got a significant raise, and a much shorter commute! That's wonderful! Maybe LATER you can ask about working remotely one week when you're in Uruguay, but of course you shouldn't bring it up now. 

PS If they walk you out you can take those two weeks off and offer to start the new job a week earlier. 
Onwards and upwards! 

[flamingo]

Congratulations Ava! This new job sounds great! I’m so relieved for you that you are getting out of this company. This job will be a fresh start, and hopefully much better for your mental health. 

[ners]

Ava The new job sounds like just what you need for a new start.  Good luck.

[debthaven]

Personally I don't think they will walk Ava out. I DO however think they will be nasty and try to make her feel even worse ... we were so good to you, you're letting us down, etc etc etc. Remember IT'S ALL BULL!!!

Ava I don't know if you read the Ask a Manager blog. I know Rukh O'Rorke is a big fan too.

Alison (the blog owner) recommends giving two weeks if you can. But she ALSO says that if you're courteous enough to give them two weeks, and in exchange they give you two weeks of hell, you can change your mind. She says (and I agree) that you can tell them that you had intended to give them two weeks' notice, but since they're being so difficult, tomorrow will be your last day.

Remember, YOU are now in the position of strength! So don't let them bring you down!!!

[Knee Deep in Water Chloe]

I'm really happy for you, Ava. 

[Works4me]

Congratulations, Ava

[taz157]

Congratulations Ava!! 🎉🎊

[Ava]

Thanks, everyone.

I had a conference call with the two managers and they asked me to complete some tasks in the next few days.

They wished me luck and that was it.

When I signed the offer letter it said 20 PTO days a year. The HR rep had said 16 when we talked on the phone. So this is even better

I will work here two more weeks and then take a week off before starting new job

[Rukh O'Rorke]

yay!!!