MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jan 20, 2016 11:48:45 GMT -5
First off - everyone can stop worrying about "the kids" - there are no kids. There used to be goat kids when they owned a goat farm, but there are no human kids and have never been any plans (or even hopes, as far as I know) for human kids.
raeoflyte - Thank you for chiming in. I've missed you. I would describe this as a fairly strong marriage with two people who love each other very much, but the wife does come from a much more conservative family and is herself a little more conservative than the rest of our group. I would be sad if their marriage ended, but also understand that my feelings about that matter less than 0. I care about them both as people and want to see them both happy. Will try to find time to spend with her soon. (We just both have schedules that often make that very difficult.)
whoisjohngalt - The wife disappearing would be hard, in that our friend group relocated to where we are from elsewhere. She has very few friends outside out established friend group up here, partly because prior to this year, she worked as a nanny, and so didn't meet new friends at work. If she decides this ends the marriage, I do expect her to either move back to NV where we are all from, or at least down to Portland where her sister is now.
Believe it or not, Virgil Showlion is right about something in this - gender dysphoria is a serious mental illness and needs to remain classified as such. Because if it is not classified as an illness, then health insurance is not require to pay for treatment. And it is an illness for which there is a treatment, almost a cure even, and that is for the person to transition to the gender they intellectually and emotionally identify with, instead of leaving them trapped in the body they were born in.
zibazinski - I feel awful for the family you know. I do know this can be handled well, though, as I had a good friend in college whose biological father transitioned into a woman while that friend and her sister were in high school. Their parents were already divorced, and it was not the easiest thing for the two daughters to grasp at first, but the family managed it well and both daughters had a great relationship with "Carrie". In my friends case, I do not think this was something he was able to consciously admit to himself until very recently. He started going to counseling for his anger issues, and this turned out to lie at the heart of it. As I said, since simply admitting it, his anger issues are very obviously diminished, and so I would guess that in itself is making him easier to live with.
The wife is stressed. She has been stressed for a while. She is a teacher who is burned out. She tried being a nanny, but not only did that pay terrible, turned out it was worse than being a teacher for her. She is back to teaching, but they do have a plan for her to go back to school and get another degree in a few years. They are on rocky ground financially and have been for a number of years, which also adds stress. Even if everything else in their life was perfect, I would totally understand if this ended their marriage. Everything else is not perfect, and I could also easily see this as the straw that breaks the camels back, so to speak.
As MJ2.0 said, we see a lot about supporting the person who is transitioning (which I am going to do), but less about supporting their families, and I want to make sure I support both of my friends through this. I love how you've remained logical and polite in your responses. I wish we were all more like you. Ooookay, back to the topic: my female cousin is (I think) transitioning to male. She now uses a male name and she dresses more masculine, although IMO she doesn't carry it that well. She just looks like a really butch lesbian to me - which I have zero problem with. I just haven't really addressed her as her male name. Maybe as she starts looking more male I'll have less trouble with it. I know her dad (my mother's brother) is very religious and conservative, and he's in complete denial. He still calls her by her name all the time.... BUT you can tell that he still loves her very much. I don't think he will ever be 100% okay with it, but I think it will get a bit easier with time.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jan 20, 2016 11:52:43 GMT -5
yes, but it was posted by a moderator in a formal format. Almost like a friendly warning. If it wasn't meant to be that way, I apologize for misunderstanding. That is why I put FORUM MEMBER instead of M in my tag. I am sorry it was not more clear. okay. Sorry for misunderstanding.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 20, 2016 12:31:41 GMT -5
I will say based on my experience of being the first one some of my friends came out as gay to, the best thing you can do is not say anything at all. Just be available to listen. Having someone non-judgmental (or at least keeps it to themselves) you can talk to at anytime is a blessing.
Especially since I am betting if she is as conservative as you say she doesn't have a lot of people to turn to.
Basically be Switzerland for the both of them.
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flamingo
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Post by flamingo on Jan 20, 2016 12:58:29 GMT -5
Just be available to listen.This is key. As my family is dealing with something very similar right now (family member transitioning from male to female), being there to listen is one of the most helpful things you can do. I can't talk to my mom about it, who is the person I usually turn to when I need to talk, because she's dealing with her own feelings about it. Which is to say she's in a permanent state of denial that it's happening and won't talk to anyone about it. My DH will listen to me talk/vent/whatever about it, but he can only make it so long before he says something snarky which pisses me off then we end up fighting. So I try not to say much about it. And, most of my feelings/thoughts/etc are about how the rest of my family is handling things vs the family member going through the transition. I have friends who I could talk to and I'm sure they'd listen and be supportive, but this family member lives 1900 miles away from me and while it's a close family member, it's not someone I spend a lot of time with (such as a spouse). And, my friends in my current town don't know this person and probably will never meet them, so it's not something I feel the need to share in minute detail with them. This is only tangentially affecting my life, so I'm not feeling the need to reach out and be supported myself. So, all that to say, be available to listen, but only if she wants to talk. Take your cues from her. When all this started in my family, there were days that the last thing I wanted was to talk about it. I really appreciated that my DH didn't bring it up until I did, or if he had a question and he could tell I didn't want to talk about it, he'd let it drop for awhile. Wanting to be supportive, even if you aren't always sure how to accomplish that, goes a long way.
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gregintenn
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Post by gregintenn on Jan 20, 2016 13:00:13 GMT -5
Can the people questioning the viability and ethics of trans-gender stuff please leave and start their own thread?
This is clearly a thread for the support of the wife of someone going through it, started by her friend, a member of this forum, asking for advice from her friends on this message board.
jmo
dem - forum member. How can one post such a bizarre thing on a PUBLIC FORUM and expect people not to react.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 20, 2016 13:05:03 GMT -5
I will say based on my experience of being the first one some of my friends came out as gay to, the best thing you can do is not say anything at all. Just be available to listen. Having someone non-judgmental (or at least keeps it to themselves) you can talk to at anytime is a blessing. Especially since I am betting if she is as conservative as you say she doesn't have a lot of people to turn to. Basically be Switzerland for the both of them. I'm thinking if she's conservative she will have a lot of people she can turn to for support unless she decides to stay married. Then she will lose their support.
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quince
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Post by quince on Jan 20, 2016 13:23:46 GMT -5
A lot of people are fixed on genitals. Bleh. A lot of people who transition are transitioning their presentation, not their sex organs, because there is something to be said about the functionality of the factory installed equipment. I imagine that less people would transition their sex organs if less people were convinced that the sex organs determine gender.
It would be AWESOME if we were really a gender neutral society. I actually DO have a bit of a mental block regarding people who transition genders, because I get angry at the idea that hair/dress/make-up/bodytype/interests/aptitudes make a woman/man, but I have the privilege of being obviously a woman despite not conforming to many feminine grooming and behavior standards. Hell, if I had a different body type, maybe I would wear make-up, style my hair, wax my legs, and wear feminine garments 24/7 to lock down how others perceive my gender.
If people were less quick to sort people on a binary scale, the extremity of many transitions might be lessened, because people would be a more comfortable fit in the world around them. Unfortunately, the fact that in many countries discriminating by gender is illegal doesn't change that people get sorted into "man" and "woman" boxes and expectations applied based on that.
Sex and gender are complicated. I can imagine there existing people who transitioned to a male identity, but sometimes still wear dresses, like fancy underwear, whatever. Why the fuck not? Cis men wear dresses and enjoy it. I KNOW there are people who routinely switch the gender they identify with, or just...don't identify as any gender.
/rant
I think you are awesome friends for thinking to pay attention to the needs of the person who isn't at the center of the hurricane, but rather just being tossed around by it. That is probably as good as you can get, after that, it is all taking cues from your friends.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Jan 20, 2016 13:29:26 GMT -5
A lot of people are fixed on genitals. Bleh. A lot of people who transition are transitioning their presentation, not their sex organs, because there is something to be said about the functionality of the factory installed equipment. I imagine that less people would transition their sex organs if less people were convinced that the sex organs determine gender. It would be AWESOME if we were really a gender neutral society. I actually DO have a bit of a mental block regarding people who transition genders, because I get angry at the idea that hair/dress/make-up/bodytype/interests/aptitudes make a woman/man, but I have the privilege of being obviously a woman despite not conforming to many feminine grooming and behavior standards. Hell, if I had a different body type, maybe I would wear make-up, style my hair, wax my legs, and wear feminine garments 24/7 to lock down how others perceive my gender. If people were less quick to sort people on a binary scale, the extremity of many transitions might be lessened, because people would be a more comfortable fit in the world around them. Unfortunately, the fact that in many countries discriminating by gender is illegal doesn't change that people get sorted into "man" and "woman" boxes and expectations applied based on that. Sex and gender are complicated. I can imagine there existing people who transitioned to a male identity, but sometimes still wear dresses, like fancy underwear, whatever. Why the fuck not? Cis men wear dresses and enjoy it. I KNOW there are people who routinely switch the gender they identify with, or just...don't identify as any gender. /rant I think you are awesome friends for thinking to pay attention to the needs of the person who isn't at the center of the hurricane, but rather just being tossed around by it. That is probably as good as you can get, after that, it is all taking cues from your friends. Loved your last paragraph.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2016 13:38:01 GMT -5
That's what I mean when I talk about mutilating their bodies.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Jan 20, 2016 13:45:51 GMT -5
. A lot of people who transition are transitioning their presentation, not their sex organs, because there is something to be said about the functionality of the factory installed equipment
I attended a lecture from a transgender person (male to female). Part of the debate about sex organs is there are not a lot of certified licensed experienced surgeons that can do gender reassignment surgery in this country and insurance doesn't cover it. That leaves a lot of people going to places like Mexico to get the surgery with horrible results. I don't recall all the stats but apparently going from penis to vagina if your surgeon meets all of the above is fairly "straightforward". While they cannot obviously bear children everything else is functional and most can even achieve orgasm. However going the opposite direction is extremely risky b/c the pool of experienced surgeons is even smaller than for the above. I watched Taboo on the subject and there is an Olympic athlete (not Bruce Jenner!) that went from female to male. She's a fully functioning penis. However she had the money to be able to afford the best of the best surgeons. I would never in a million years guess he had been born female if it had not been disclosed on the show. He was HOOOOOT too.
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honeysalt
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Post by honeysalt on Jan 20, 2016 14:01:31 GMT -5
Yes, that is true for you, because you identify as male and are attracted to women /heterosexual. That is not true for everyone, however. And to call someone who feels they are trapped in the wrong physical body a freak, or make no effort to see their perspective is wrong. Not saying you have said those things..just making a general statement. Just as it takes more than just biology to make a mom or dad, it takes more than a penis or vagina to truly be one gender or another. Actually, scientifically, it does not. Also, you are correct. I don't believe I called anyone anything other than calling the friend's husband a guy. I was born with ambiguous genitalia, not a penis nor a vagina, something in between, caused by incomplete masculanization in utero. Fortunately, my parents had the good sense to wait until just before I hit puberty for me to have a medically necessary genital surgery. Given your binary and genital based definition of sexuality, how would you classify me? Not trying to be snarky, it is just an opportunity for me to understand the thought process of someone whose experiences are so different from my own.
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Jan 20, 2016 14:04:30 GMT -5
Actually, scientifically, it does not. Also, you are correct. I don't believe I called anyone anything other than calling the friend's husband a guy. I was born with ambiguous genitalia, not a penis nor a vagina, something in between, caused by incomplete masculanization in utero. Fortunately, my parents had the good sense to wait until just before I hit puberty for me to have a medically necessary genital surgery. Given your binary and genital based definition of sexuality, how would you classify me? Not trying to be snarky, it is just an opportunity for me to understand the thought process of someone whose experiences are so different from my own. very cool of you to post on this thread. just curious how you classify yourself?
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Jan 20, 2016 14:09:41 GMT -5
I was born with ambiguous genitalia, not a penis nor a vagina, something in between, caused by incomplete masculanization in utero. Fortunately, my parents had the good sense to wait until just before I hit puberty for me to have a medically necessary genital surgery. Given your binary and genital based definition of sexuality, how would you classify me? Not trying to be snarky, it is just an opportunity for me to understand the thought process of someone whose experiences are so different from my own. very cool of you to post on this thread. just curious how you classify yourself? That's what I was curious about too. Especially when growing as I can't imagine that's something classmates or most friends would know about.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2016 14:11:46 GMT -5
Actually, scientifically, it does not. Also, you are correct. I don't believe I called anyone anything other than calling the friend's husband a guy. I was born with ambiguous genitalia, not a penis nor a vagina, something in between, caused by incomplete masculanization in utero. Fortunately, my parents had the good sense to wait until just before I hit puberty for me to have a medically necessary genital surgery. Given your binary and genital based definition of sexuality, how would you classify me? Not trying to be snarky, it is just an opportunity for me to understand the thought process of someone whose experiences are so different from my own. Your situation is a lot easier for me to understand, a clear cut physical birth defect that you got corrected. I would classify you as whatever you got corrected to.
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honeysalt
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Post by honeysalt on Jan 20, 2016 14:16:24 GMT -5
I was born with ambiguous genitalia, not a penis nor a vagina, something in between, caused by incomplete masculanization in utero. Fortunately, my parents had the good sense to wait until just before I hit puberty for me to have a medically necessary genital surgery. Given your binary and genital based definition of sexuality, how would you classify me? Not trying to be snarky, it is just an opportunity for me to understand the thought process of someone whose experiences are so different from my own. very cool of you to post on this thread. just curious how you classify yourself? I live my life culturally as a woman. I look like a woman. I consider myself to be an intersexed person. It isn't just my junk that is in between. My chromosomes and hormone levels are as well, which makes me think and act in a very different way than most women, and most men. I am only an out intersexed person to my closest friends. When I told them, they didn't know, but they weren't shocked. They all just kind of said, that makes a lot of sense.
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souldoubt
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Post by souldoubt on Jan 20, 2016 14:18:47 GMT -5
Like Archie said thanks for sharing. That's the kind of perspective most of us don't have because we didn't grow up like that or know anyone (or at least someone that told us) like that.
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honeysalt
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Post by honeysalt on Jan 20, 2016 14:21:46 GMT -5
OP, I would just listen without judgement. Your friend might feel a lot of anger, grief and shock. She might also feel guilty about feeling those things, which are all normal responses to her situation. She is in an even more difficult spot because one of her biggest supporter systems, her transitioning spouse, is probably going through so much of her own stuff, that neither of them can fully support the other. The transitioning partner might also feel judged by her wife's emotions.
On the other hand, if they want to work this out and choose to accept each other, the resulting relationship could be very rewarding. Completely fair if either of them decides they don't want to work through this.
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honeysalt
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Post by honeysalt on Jan 20, 2016 14:33:07 GMT -5
I was born with ambiguous genitalia, not a penis nor a vagina, something in between, caused by incomplete masculanization in utero. Fortunately, my parents had the good sense to wait until just before I hit puberty for me to have a medically necessary genital surgery. Given your binary and genital based definition of sexuality, how would you classify me? Not trying to be snarky, it is just an opportunity for me to understand the thought process of someone whose experiences are so different from my own. Your situation is a lot easier for me to understand, a clear cut physical birth defect that you got corrected. I would classify you as whatever you got corrected to. My genitals were surgically altered. My congenital birth defect also involves hormones and chromosomes, so I didn't really have my birth defect corrected. In addition to intersexed, I classify myself as lucky to have a sexual/gender difference that scientists and people in general today can understand. Years ago, people like me sometimes got put into mental hospitals because people and scientists didn't understand. Many years ago, in war base cultures, we were killed at birth. Also, ambiguous genitals often can't be corrected by surgery. Attempts to make them look normal often result in decreased sexual functioning and can also result in urinary problems. I was also lucky that my surgeons and parents had the good sense to stick to the medically necessary side of corrections.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2016 15:48:45 GMT -5
Your situation is a lot easier for me to understand, a clear cut physical birth defect that you got corrected. I would classify you as whatever you got corrected to. My genitals were surgically altered. My congenital birth defect also involves hormones and chromosomes, so I didn't really have my birth defect corrected. In addition to intersexed, I classify myself as lucky to have a sexual/gender difference that scientists and people in general today can understand. Years ago, people like me sometimes got put into mental hospitals because people and scientists didn't understand. Many years ago, in war base cultures, we were killed at birth. Also, ambiguous genitals often can't be corrected by surgery. Attempts to make them look normal often result in decreased sexual functioning and can also result in urinary problems. I was also lucky that my surgeons and parents had the good sense to stick to the medically necessary side of corrections. If you don't mind my asking, how are your reproductive organs affected?
It never occurs me to question how a person presents themselves, I tend to accept it at face value. It's never come up as an issue in my dating life either. No one ever gave it as a reason for not going out with me so I have no clue if I ever interacted with anyone affected by these things.
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Wisconsin Beth
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Post by Wisconsin Beth on Jan 20, 2016 16:06:58 GMT -5
Me neither. It'd be nice to take credit for being open minded and all but really it's being oblivious to other people around me. I'd make a lousy witness.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jan 20, 2016 16:21:16 GMT -5
My genitals were surgically altered. My congenital birth defect also involves hormones and chromosomes, so I didn't really have my birth defect corrected. In addition to intersexed, I classify myself as lucky to have a sexual/gender difference that scientists and people in general today can understand. Years ago, people like me sometimes got put into mental hospitals because people and scientists didn't understand. Many years ago, in war base cultures, we were killed at birth. Also, ambiguous genitals often can't be corrected by surgery. Attempts to make them look normal often result in decreased sexual functioning and can also result in urinary problems. I was also lucky that my surgeons and parents had the good sense to stick to the medically necessary side of corrections. If you don't mind my asking, how are your reproductive organs affected?
It never occurs me to question how a person presents themselves, I tend to accept it at face value. It's never come up as an issue in my dating life either. No one ever gave it as a reason for not going out with me so I have no clue if I ever interacted with anyone affected by these things.
Dumb question but don't you think you would know a man you were out with wasn't really a man? I think it is easier for a feminine guy to look like a woman than for a woman to look lole a man. I look at Chaz Bono..he just looks like a butch lesbian
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justme
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Post by justme on Jan 20, 2016 16:23:09 GMT -5
So being intersexed can be a birth defect, well maybe being transgendered is too. It was a couple years ago that I read the article, but they've done studies on those identified as females born into male bodies and found that their brains are feminized. Parts of their brains are larger/smaller in accordance to how a female's brain is not a males. I don't know if they've done studies on female to males - I was interested enough to read the article and surprised enough to have it stick with me, but it hasn't been anything I've followed. So what if it was a birth defect that gave the person's brains different hormones than what the rest of their body got during gestation or early development?
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Jan 20, 2016 16:25:46 GMT -5
Also, ambiguous genitals often can't be corrected by surgery. Attempts to make them look normal often result in decreased sexual functioning and can also result in urinary problems. I was also lucky that my surgeons and parents had the good sense to stick to the medically necessary side of corrections. Let's hope that the good decisions and judgement displayed by your parents and surgeons become the norm.
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justme
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Post by justme on Jan 20, 2016 16:28:04 GMT -5
If you don't mind my asking, how are your reproductive organs affected?
It never occurs me to question how a person presents themselves, I tend to accept it at face value. It's never come up as an issue in my dating life either. No one ever gave it as a reason for not going out with me so I have no clue if I ever interacted with anyone affected by these things.
Dumb question but don't you think you would know a man you were out with wasn't really a man? I think it is easier for a feminine guy to look like a woman than for a woman to look lole a man. I look at Chaz Bono..he just looks like a butch lesbian Other photos here www.lgbtqnation.com/2015/10/handsome-transgender-model-takes-instagram-by-storm/ I don't think I would be able to guess if I passed him on the street. I think a lot of it might have to be with how young they are when they start hormones?
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Jan 20, 2016 16:29:46 GMT -5
Dumb question but don't you think you would know a man you were out with wasn't really a man? I think it is easier for a feminine guy to look like a woman than for a woman to look lole a man. I look at Chaz Bono..he just looks like a butch lesbian Other photos here www.lgbtqnation.com/2015/10/handsome-transgender-model-takes-instagram-by-storm/ I don't think I would be able to guess if I passed him on the street. I think a lot of it might have to be with how young they are when they start hormones? i would be gay for that dude.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Jan 20, 2016 16:33:58 GMT -5
i would be gay for that dude. Holy shit...that was a woman?? I might have just changed my mind on all of this because I would turn for that person!!lol
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honeysalt
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Post by honeysalt on Jan 20, 2016 16:40:41 GMT -5
My genitals were surgically altered. My congenital birth defect also involves hormones and chromosomes, so I didn't really have my birth defect corrected. In addition to intersexed, I classify myself as lucky to have a sexual/gender difference that scientists and people in general today can understand. Years ago, people like me sometimes got put into mental hospitals because people and scientists didn't understand. Many years ago, in war base cultures, we were killed at birth. Also, ambiguous genitals often can't be corrected by surgery. Attempts to make them look normal often result in decreased sexual functioning and can also result in urinary problems. I was also lucky that my surgeons and parents had the good sense to stick to the medically necessary side of corrections. If you don't mind my asking, how are your reproductive organs affected?
It never occurs me to question how a person presents themselves, I tend to accept it at face value. It's never come up as an issue in my dating life either. No one ever gave it as a reason for not going out with me so I have no clue if I ever interacted with anyone affected by these things.
I don't mind at all. I am infertile. For many reasons. My T levels alone make me infertile. I could get them chemically lowered, but I wouldn't feel like myself any more than you would feel like yourself if you suddenly had my T levels after living with yours all of your life. How many people have you met that have had red hair? Intersexed conditions have a similar rate of occurrence. The thing is often they themselves don't know about their condition until something else comes up medically or they try to have kids (not all intersexed conditions result in infertility, but many do). For example, I watched a documentary on a man who was in the military. He had a health problem and the scan revealed that he had ovaries. He had a fully functional penis as well. He had no idea. There are intersexed people with male chromosomes that look like women, tend to be very attractive, have hairless bodies and they don't sweat, nor do they have a uterus. They often don't find out until they fail to menstruate. I actually didn't find out until I was married and went to an endocrinologist who then sent me to a geneticist. The men I dated always commented that I wasn't like other girls they dated personality wise, but I naturally gravitated towards guys who liked the way I was different. They also commented that my genitals were larger on the outside and smaller on the inside than most women, which was another difference that they actually liked. Ironically, getting along with men and dating have always come easily for me. Because the brain is masculinized before the genitals, understanding and relating to women had a pretty steep learning curve for me, but today some of my best friends are women. I think we will have a scientific explanation for Trans people in 10-20 years also. Living with my condition before I had a name for it was hard. Really hard. I knew I wasn't like men or women, but I didn't know why, so I just felt like a misfit. Living with my condition now that I have a name for it, makes it a blessing. In that sense, I can really empathize with people in the Trans community. I and those around me don't judge me harshly because the scientists were smart enough to figure out what the biological cause of my difference is.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jan 20, 2016 16:42:32 GMT -5
. A lot of people who transition are transitioning their presentation, not their sex organs, because there is something to be said about the functionality of the factory installed equipment
I attended a lecture from a transgender person (male to female). Part of the debate about sex organs is there are not a lot of certified licensed experienced surgeons that can do gender reassignment surgery in this country and insurance doesn't cover it. That leaves a lot of people going to places like Mexico to get the surgery with horrible results. I don't recall all the stats but apparently going from penis to vagina if your surgeon meets all of the above is fairly "straightforward". While they cannot obviously bear children everything else is functional and most can even achieve orgasm. However going the opposite direction is extremely risky b/c the pool of experienced surgeons is even smaller than for the above. I watched Taboo on the subject and there is an Olympic athlete (not Bruce Jenner!) that went from female to male. She's a fully functioning penis. However she had the money to be able to afford the best of the best surgeons. I would never in a million years guess he had been born female if it had not been disclosed on the show. He was HOOOOOT too. that describes many men.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Jan 20, 2016 16:43:56 GMT -5
Dumb question but don't you think you would know a man you were out with wasn't really a man? I think it is easier for a feminine guy to look like a woman than for a woman to look lole a man. I look at Chaz Bono..he just looks like a butch lesbian Other photos here www.lgbtqnation.com/2015/10/handsome-transgender-model-takes-instagram-by-storm/ I don't think I would be able to guess if I passed him on the street. I think a lot of it might have to be with how young they are when they start hormones? Hubba hubba. If you passed this guy on the street, who could blame you for not noticing that softness of cheek? Almost anyone's mind would be elsewhere, no matter what team you think that you play for. What a stunner!
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MJ2.0
Senior Associate
Joined: Jul 24, 2014 10:27:09 GMT -5
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Post by MJ2.0 on Jan 20, 2016 16:45:59 GMT -5
Dumb question but don't you think you would know a man you were out with wasn't really a man? I think it is easier for a feminine guy to look like a woman than for a woman to look lole a man. I look at Chaz Bono..he just looks like a butch lesbian Other photos here www.lgbtqnation.com/2015/10/handsome-transgender-model-takes-instagram-by-storm/ I don't think I would be able to guess if I passed him on the street. I think a lot of it might have to be with how young they are when they start hormones? Damn!!!!
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