honeysalt
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 3, 2015 21:59:46 GMT -5
Posts: 154
|
Post by honeysalt on Jan 21, 2016 23:13:56 GMT -5
Thank you Pink and Taz and all of the other posters who have been so accepting and affirming. It is appreciated!
|
|
justme
Senior Associate
Joined: Feb 10, 2012 13:12:47 GMT -5
Posts: 14,618
|
Post by justme on Jan 22, 2016 0:10:43 GMT -5
Tens of thousands of people get plastic surgery every year to feel better about themselves. I've personally had several laser sessions to improve my complexion, and this makes me happy. Am I mentally unsound because I'm happier with a better complexion? I dunno. Are people mentally unsound if they dye their grey hair? What about botox? Where's the line, because this seems to be an opinion argument vs some universal definition. I take spironolactone (a diuretic) because of its anti-androgen properties. My chin would be full of painful cysts without it. In a very, very small way, my internal and external happiness is dependent on masking what my body does naturally. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/yeahthat.gif) When I was on a higher dose but loosing my hair my mom was freaking out saying I needed to lower it or stop. Told her I'll try lowering it but I'd rather have less hair than the face of a 14 year old. Not to mention all the other stupid crap my body does naturally that's wrong for me.
|
|
Formerly SK
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 27, 2011 14:23:13 GMT -5
Posts: 3,255
|
Post by Formerly SK on Jan 22, 2016 9:50:42 GMT -5
Tens of thousands of people get plastic surgery every year to feel better about themselves. I've personally had several laser sessions to improve my complexion, and this makes me happy. Am I mentally unsound because I'm happier with a better complexion? I dunno. Are people mentally unsound if they dye their grey hair? What about botox? Where's the line, because this seems to be an opinion argument vs some universal definition. Does it make you feel better to know that I do think that people that need to cut up their faces to feel better about themselves have problems? The same with people that inject poison into their face. Hair dying and laser sessions are similar to makeup or clothing, not a permanent alteration to the physical being so it isn't the same. I don't know exactly where the line is, but it's somewhere between dying your hair and going under the knife. My point is that is your definition, obviously it's not the same definition others have. And while you say you draw the line at "cutting up your face," I'm sure if someone was in an accident and crushed their nose you'd support reconstructive surgery. Or someone born with a cleft palate - I'm sure you'd agree surgery is justified. Point is, people have all sorts of reasons for altering their bodies, and thousands of them do it every day. The trans community is no different.
|
|
|
Post by mojothehelpermonkey on Jan 22, 2016 14:50:39 GMT -5
Thank you Pink and Taz and all of the other posters who have been so accepting and affirming. It is appreciated! I clicked on this thread because I thought that at 10+ pages it must have somehow turned into a discussion of what people on welfare buy at the grocery store. Those can be entertaining, but this thread has been fascinating. Thanks for sharing your story.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Jun 24, 2024 8:17:47 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2016 15:49:08 GMT -5
Does it make you feel better to know that I do think that people that need to cut up their faces to feel better about themselves have problems? The same with people that inject poison into their face. Hair dying and laser sessions are similar to makeup or clothing, not a permanent alteration to the physical being so it isn't the same. I don't know exactly where the line is, but it's somewhere between dying your hair and going under the knife. My point is that is your definition, obviously it's not the same definition others have. And while you say you draw the line at "cutting up your face," I'm sure if someone was in an accident and crushed their nose you'd support reconstructive surgery. Or someone born with a cleft palate - I'm sure you'd agree surgery is justified. Point is, people have all sorts of reasons for altering their bodies, and thousands of them do it every day. The trans community is no different. Yes, I understand medically necessary procedures. The argument that lots of people get plastic surgery that isn't medically necessary is not an argument in favour of it. If that had been the topic of the thread I would have said that is a problem. As I said way back in the thread, I don't judge people that do it. But I think it's a problem that they feel the need to.
|
|
Kolt!
Well-Known Member
Joined: Jan 31, 2016 17:45:32 GMT -5
Posts: 1,311
|
Post by Kolt! on Jan 31, 2016 23:13:19 GMT -5
I haven't had a chance to fully look through everything. i'll probably give a long winded reply later. i'm transgender. luckily, i didn't wait so long to come out. i don't think i could have. i however was not honest with my girlfriend about being trans...now i'm upfront. well my ex...we didn't break up when i came out either. i broke up with her and then told her it was because i was trans...and she wanted to get back together...so i was fortunate to find someone that loved me based on personality...but this...this is a completely different story.
But, right now...remember that the friend's spouse and the friend both need support. it's not only going to be a difficult journey for the person transitioning but the spouse that has to go through this. it's going to be a difficult road for the friend that married the person transitioning because truthfully? hopefully it's the personality one loves and not the 'penis.' but ... even so... something this HUGE...not everyone can handle. nobody should force the spouse to stay with the person that is transitioning because it is HUGE. nobody should make the spouse feel guilty for leaving either. <--- be a shoulder to cry on, let them rant, but in NO way ever belittle the spouse...
as for supporting the person transitioning. you may slip sometimes...correct yourself. they're going to appreciate that you're at least trying. that's all someone wants when they transition. they want people to stay their friends, they want people to at least try to accept them and even if they're not... put on a smile, remain their friend, and just...be there and care. Suck up any pride you may have (not saying you do...but some people in here seem to have a pride on them...) suck it up...suck up that you think they're a man...even if you still think that in your head...get over it...call them a 'she' that's what they want to be referred to... not that hard. It's nearly like a nickname...'Hey I hate my name Breanna, please call me Bri" ...People generally go OK. Simple as that. It'll be difficult at first...you may slip but just say sorry...and try again until it sticks in your brain.
It's really not that hard to be there as a friend. You let them rant, you let them cry, and really you just tell them you'll be there for them. It's really as simple as that.
When I transitioned all I wanted was for my family and friends to still be there. Even if it was awkward at first. That's all I wanted. As long as they were trying I didn't care if they slipped up. I had people that listened to me, let me cry, let me talk... and were there. A friendly hand goes a long way.
I'm fortunate to be in a generation of people my age that are more accepting. I didn't lose any friends except one. I didn't have many friends to begin with but man...I kept my three best friends, and I kept my parents. And all they did? All they did was be there for me. My mom and dad didn't agree with it at first...but they loved me, they listened to me...and now they even call me Kolt.
Literally my main advice for you is BE THERE...and just try to call them what they want to be called. You don't have to accept it...it can be weird...but just hold your tongue in certain regards. But...if they talk to you about the spouse...and the spouse can't accept it? That's a difficult one because you can't pit them against one another. You'll have to be honest about it being a difficult road for someone to switch to a same sex marriage...when they were straight to begin with...
I mean personally? The sex life? Sorry if this isn't allowed...but it'd be difficult. I personally have to be the male in the scenario...Ok I can't really explain it on a public forum sorry...but sex just would become different and I could see why a woman wouldn't want to be with another woman...and for the person transitioning into a woman? She's not going to want to probably be the man in the scene? I'm not sure. :/
I'm shutting up.
REALLY ADVICE IS JUST TO BE THERE. It's honestly as simple as that. Don't run away. Don't be crude. Just be a friend.
|
|
Kolt!
Well-Known Member
Joined: Jan 31, 2016 17:45:32 GMT -5
Posts: 1,311
|
Post by Kolt! on Jan 31, 2016 23:20:36 GMT -5
Greg, I know this is probably impossible for you to comprehend, but just because a person is born one gender or another doesn't mean they actually identify as that gender. It's like being gay/lesbian. You can't help who you are attracted to. And all the homophobia etc., in the world isn't going to change that. Maybe you should try to be a little more tolerant? It's not hurting you, or affecting you in any way. It doesn't change the person that they are on the inside, and shouldn't that be the most important thing? You guessed right. Impossible for me to comprehend. You have a penis, you are male. I'm not sure what I'm missing here, but carry on. Dear Greg, I have a penis. I wasn't born with one. Is that alright with you. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png) Is that male enough. Therefore, hey... if she gets rid of her penis...and gets a vagina she is a woman right? HOWEVER... I'm being very sarcastic right now. Gender or sexuality can not be put in a box. I believe that a feminine person...as I once was very feminine...I dressed feminine...people saw me as a female...I wasn't a female. I was always a male rather I had a 'penis' or not...that was MY gender. That was where my head and heart was. My body didn't align with the image I saw in the mirror. Gender is not as simple as a penis or a vagina. There are even people born with both... I can't wait for the day when people begin to see this. I'll be dead by then...but some day...some day just as Jews were frowned upon. Blacks were frowned up. Transgender people will not be frowned upon no more too. What seems unnormal becomes normal. What people dont' understand... hopefully they will some day. Although...let's be realistic sadly..were still having some of those social issues still.
|
|
Kolt!
Well-Known Member
Joined: Jan 31, 2016 17:45:32 GMT -5
Posts: 1,311
|
Post by Kolt! on Jan 31, 2016 23:50:55 GMT -5
mu·ti·late. [ˈmyo͞odlˌāt] VERB 1. (be mutilated) inflict a violent and disfiguring injury on: "the leg was badly mutilated" · synonyms: mangle · maim · disfigure · butcher · dismember · I know what I am saying and it is what I mean to say. Gender reassignment surgery (which is actually a misnomer, it is only a cosmetic change and doesn't change anything of substance) is physically a big deal. And the last statistic I read said that 50% of the people that get it commit suicide. So for many people it's not accomplishing what they hoped it would. To say that we should identify more than 2 genders so that people with these differences don't need to do this to themselves to feel they are "fixed", and to encourage people to be themselves without cutting themselves up, is not an evil and cruel thing. I was more suicidal before my transition. I attempted suicide when I was in a more feminine body. I wanted to conform and be female. I wanted to cope with being transgender. A lot of the reasons behind these suicides as well isn't exactly because they're not happy with their bodies...a lot has to do with society degrading them.. I'm fortunate to have friends that love me for me. I'm fortunate to have friends that remind me I'm a man even if I wasn't born what society deems a man. I'm in a lgbtq community with other people that have transitioned they are all more happy now then they were before they transitioned. A lot has to do with society or age. “First, more research is needed into the timing of suicide attempts in relation to age and gender transition status. In regard to timing of suicide attempts and gender transition, some surveys and clinical studies have found that transgender people are at an elevated risk for suicide attempt during gender transition, while rates of suicide attempts decrease after gender transition.” It's actually older people that transition later in life that are more likely to kill themselves or people kill themselves during transitioning not after. Once a person gets to the point they can pass and they're more comfortable passing...where society starts to accept them... suicide rates start to decrease for these people that are able to pass. Personally, I was depressed when I wasn't passing. When I first started transitioning it was awful. I couldn't pass. People judged me. People called me disgusting. But now..now that I pass in real life...in public life is just so much better. I'm more happy. I don't always tell people i'm trans and nobody questions it. Suicide...in the transgender community generally has NOTHING to do with a person being unhappy with the transition...it's the inbetween moments and it's what society makes them feel like for doing it.
|
|
Kolt!
Well-Known Member
Joined: Jan 31, 2016 17:45:32 GMT -5
Posts: 1,311
|
Post by Kolt! on Feb 1, 2016 0:03:40 GMT -5
It isn't rare Virgil. She said its about as common as having red hair. A poor choice of comparison, since red hair is common in some ethnicities and practically nonexistent in others. If you insist on using analogies rather than percentages, accept that red hair is also notably rare when considering humanity as a whole. Its nice of you guys to give honeysalt 'a pass'. She was able to provide you with an unambiguous (ironically) visible physical manifestation so that you could officially 'approve' of her decisions. It doesn't matter that she was pretty clear that there are many physical issues which are not visibly manifest. It doesn't matter that she gives you examples of people who are in this situation who do not have visible physical manifestations of the condition... who do not know for a long time that they even have the condition.
I approve of her handling because she addressed the situation in a way that made things better rather than worse. So, the people on this board (and in life who you must know, even if you don't realize) who are dealing with transgender, who have a spouse who has transitioned, who have children who are transitioning, who have brothers and sisters and other relatives who are transitioning... they are all just supporting lunacy, and should better just be told/tell their loved ones that they are only the sum total of their genital organs, who should lose the support of their friends if they tolerate the situation, should be ready for people to offer up all kinds of opinions about how bizarre they are and ask them why they would want to mutilate themselves... A person's sex is the sum of their genetics. In the case of intersexed individuals, some latitude exists. Honeysalt's case is one where the ambiguity was resolved swiftly, permanently, and thus appropriately. Gender reflects sex. An individual's thoughts, feelings, brain function does not determine sex, ergo it oughtn't determine manifest gender. I realize there may well be pathologies in the hypothalamus and elsewhere that contribute to the problem of gender dysphoria. There are known chemical factors and brain pathologies that contribute to every mental illness known to man. That's precisely why I characterize gender dysphoria as a mental illness rather than "somebody deciding one day to change gender for the heck of it". I, and you'll find most conservatives, will not divorce gender from sex for the sake of accommodating gender dysphoria. We won't call a man whose brain tells him he's a woman a woman. We won't call a white man whose brain tells him he's black a black. Self-identification is irrelevant. I view gender as an immutable quantity, excepting intersexed individuals (i.e. those with ambiguous genetics) who elect to transition before puberty to correct misassignment at birth. Regardless, once puberty is reached, that's it. You're a man or a woman. You stick with it. You value it and the identity based on it. If your brain tells you down the road you're a woman in a man's body or vice versa: you give the condition no quarter. Talk it over with a therapist if need be. I have no doubt countless individuals do precisely this. They're mindful of families, commitments, an identity, a legacy. They're creatures of higher reasoning. They understand the consequences of their actions. They bring their impulses into subjection, and bear their burden with grace and stoicism. That goes doubly so for those who've taken spouses. Those are the actions I respect. For those who instead elect to make a bad situation worse by "transitioning", I still have some sympathy. Mental illness is an especially hard demon to overcome. My sympathy doesn't extend to countenancing their decision, however. The truly sad thing is that (unless something has changed since the Bruce Jenner thread) there's no compelling evidence to suggest the "transition" is generally of any benefit to the psyche of the individual "transitioning" anyway. That's to say nothing of the lives and relationships violated by the decision. Dear Virgil. It's people like you that make many transgender people want to kill themselves. Dear Virgil OH PLEASE tell me how I can get help and be fixed? After thirteen years of going to therapy not to talk about transitioning but how to cope, how to deal with what I am? Because before I transitioned...Dear Virgil, I tried to kill myself. If I hadn't transitioned...I'd be dead right now. I'm more happy then I have been in all my life because I can look in the mirror and smile. I can take a shower and not be ashamed. I feel amazing. I'm who I'm supposed to be! Was I supposed to suffer my whole life in a body that wasn't mine simply to appease society's view? Was I supposed to hide from the mirror the rest of my life? Was I supposed to let the thought of killing myself appear in my mind every day? I went to many therapists who tried to 'fix' me and make me happy with who I am. I tried to cope and deal with who I was and just hide it. But it became too much. Right now? The only choice I had was to transition...to let me match my mind and my heart and what my body was telling me I should be...to not suffer in a body that wasn't mine. There isnt' medication for it that will fix it...there isn't a technique to fix this... I was in the SECOND grade...that was my earliest memory of feeling this way... the SECOND GRADE. It may be an illness but who cares? WHO CARES. I'm not hurting society. I'm not hurting you. I'm living the life I want to live. I'm happy. And I'm sorry if my 'happiness' irritates you so. But other then being transgender... i'm pretty darn normal. I go to school. I can wipe my own butt. I go to work and make a living. I mentor students because I volunteer at schools. I actually have a book that a Publisher is looking at right now. I volunteer at soup kitchens, I pay my bills, I donate books to a library... I'd say generally I help society. I'd say generally I'm pretty darn normal and my 'illness' doesn't effect the world at all. It doesn't effect you either. So what If I want to be called Kolt? So what if I want to be referred to as he? Does that REALLY harm you? Does that really DESTROY your life like it destroys me to be called she? Look at it as a nickname if you must? I don't care how you look at it..but the least you can do is respect what I like to be referred to because it isn't hurting you any. SORRY FOR MULTIPLE POSTS. OH MY GOSH. I'LL STOP!
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Jun 24, 2024 8:17:47 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2016 0:54:37 GMT -5
I have a penis. I wasn't born with one. Is that alright with you. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png) I Hi Kolt. First I want to say that if you changed yourself and are happier because of that, I am happy for you. Here is what I do not understand. If you were born without a penis, why is it so important to have one? Your gender, if I understand transgender stuff right, is in your head or psychology or whateverer. if you were a male before the penis, then it is just a fact that some males do not have penises. Right? Why couldn't you just be that? What is so important about that little bit of meat? I am always worried on subjects like this to offend. And I fully support your right to do what you feel best for yourself. Also , i think there are several posters here who weren't born with a penis and have had quite a few of them in their time. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png)
|
|
Peace Of Mind
Senior Associate
[font color="#8f2520"]~ Drinks Well With Others ~[/font]
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 16:53:02 GMT -5
Posts: 15,554
Location: Paradise
|
Post by Peace Of Mind on Feb 1, 2016 0:56:49 GMT -5
honeysalt , a while back (I don't remember what thread), I wanted to tell you that I enjoy reading your posts, so I guess this is as good a time as any to say it. You express your opinion in such a thoughtful and graceful way...... I wish you would post more. Your patience and grace with answering the questions in this thread and sharing about yourself and your experiences is awesome. If IRL, you're anything like your posts here read, you're one classy person. Not that an anonymous person on a message board's opinon means anything in the grand scheme of things, those are just my thoughts. So this! I wish many of our posters were as articulate, mature, sensible, intelligent, objective... I can go on and on. I especially wish I was. ETA: I've been avoiding this thread because I know what is said here is similar to throwing noodles on the wall or ceiling. Very little will stick and I'd be wasting my breath and be covered in noodles. And Virgil noodles are just gross.
|
|
Kolt!
Well-Known Member
Joined: Jan 31, 2016 17:45:32 GMT -5
Posts: 1,311
|
Post by Kolt! on Feb 1, 2016 7:10:33 GMT -5
I have a penis. I wasn't born with one. Is that alright with you. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png) I Hi Kolt. First I want to say that if you changed yourself and are happier because of that, I am happy for you. Here is what I do not understand. If you were born without a penis, why is it so important to have one? Your gender, if I understand transgender stuff right, is in your head or psychology or whateverer. if you were a male before the penis, then it is just a fact that some males do not have penises. Right? Why couldn't you just be that? What is so important about that little bit of meat? I am always worried on subjects like this to offend. And I fully support your right to do what you feel best for yourself. Also , i think there are several posters here who weren't born with a penis and have had quite a few of them in their time. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png) Hey. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/smiley.png) It isn't actually important to all transmen to have a penis. Some simply want a penis because of society and they want to blend in and never express they are trans. I know a transgendermale that had surgery to have a penis and now doesn't tell people he's trans. I only know because I knew him before he transitioned. Some transmen do not have surgery nor care to have surgery. Some simply get packers which are similar to penis's or use strap ons when they're in the bedroom to feel more masculine in the bedroom because they want to be the masculine figure in the bedroom compared to a feminine figure. Some like me actually have something similar to people that feel as if they have a missing limb may experience. I felt as if I had a penis even though I was lacking one. It's really hard to understand the feeling or explain it. Along with this I had other reasons as to why I felt male. Ya know some may be more of a wanting to look masculine compared to looking feminine as well. But, when they become to look fully masculine they begin to look male...unless they're unable to pass. Some if it is certainly a society thing of what a male and what's a female. Certain words are associated with each gender. It really depends on the person. I've known transmen that don't care to have surgery or care to wear a packer. But, there's some transmen that do because it bothers them not to have one. --I'm not actually easily offended. I can be sarcastic. I was being sarcastic with that comment actually =P As I personally wear packers and have no desire to get surgery for various reasons. I'm perfectly content with just having a packer. And the girls I'm with are perfectly happy with me in the bedroom ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png) So no sweat off my back. lmao! I get more upset when I know that transgender people out there are more sensitive then me. I got a bit upset about Virgil's comment mainly because the refusing to call someone a he/she...it can really damage a transgender person when someone refuses to refer to them as what they want to be called. People can call me whatever they please But I am protective over my friends in the community. Sidenote- I'm honestly willing to answer all questions about this. I know it's hard to understand. A lot of people don't understand it. Sometimes I don't even understand it fully. All I know is after I transitioned I was more happy then I have been in my entire twenty-four years of life. Every trans person's story is different as well.
|
|
MJ2.0
Senior Associate
Joined: Jul 24, 2014 10:27:09 GMT -5
Posts: 10,987
|
Post by MJ2.0 on Feb 1, 2016 9:48:36 GMT -5
Blacks are still frowned upon, so trans people still have a very long way to go.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Jun 24, 2024 8:17:47 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2016 9:55:37 GMT -5
He has that effect on a lot of people.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Jun 24, 2024 8:17:47 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2016 9:57:13 GMT -5
What I keep trying to express is that society should accept them without them having to go to those extremes.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Jun 24, 2024 8:17:47 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2016 10:10:27 GMT -5
He has that effect on a lot of people. That is a mean thing to say. Virgil is on a message board where people should be encouraged to have honest dialogue. I have a hard time imagining Virgil goes up to strangers and forces his views onto them. Anyway I think it a mean way to talk to people about different opinions. That said, I have a different view then Virgil on this and have not read many of his posts, so maybe I am wrong. idk
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Jun 24, 2024 8:17:47 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2016 10:14:48 GMT -5
I still think it was kinda funny.
|
|
swamp
Community Leader
Don't be a fool. Call me!
Joined: Dec 19, 2010 16:03:22 GMT -5
Posts: 45,397
|
Post by swamp on Feb 1, 2016 10:20:43 GMT -5
honeysalt , a while back (I don't remember what thread), I wanted to tell you that I enjoy reading your posts, so I guess this is as good a time as any to say it. You express your opinion in such a thoughtful and graceful way...... I wish you would post more. Your patience and grace with answering the questions in this thread and sharing about yourself and your experiences is awesome. If IRL, you're anything like your posts here read, you're one classy person. Not that an anonymous person on a message board's opinon means anything in the grand scheme of things, those are just my thoughts. What she said.
|
|
Kolt!
Well-Known Member
Joined: Jan 31, 2016 17:45:32 GMT -5
Posts: 1,311
|
Post by Kolt! on Feb 1, 2016 12:08:47 GMT -5
He has that effect on a lot of people. That is a mean thing to say. Virgil is on a message board where people should be encouraged to have honest dialogue. I have a hard time imagining Virgil goes up to strangers and forces his views onto them. Anyway I think it a mean way to talk to people about different opinions. That said, I have a different view then Virgil on this and have not read many of his posts, so maybe I am wrong. idk In my opinion it was not mean for me to say because it is fact. People that refuse to call someone by the identity that they are...being called she instead of he...makes people depressed its people that refuse to accept people for who they are. It wasnt mean. It is fact. And here is why some trans do have surgery to be accepted...to hide. Society should accept people for who they are rather they transition or not but they do not. I dream of a world where there is no coming out...people can love who they want or dress and be be the way they want but were a long way from that. I think as my generation and younger starts taking over theyll be more hope personally. Each younger generation slowly becomes more liberal in regards to accepting people without judgement. But were so far a long And yes blacks are still treated poorly. A long road it is to be accepted. But ill never quit the fight. Nobody should rather be dead then be who they are if its not effecting someone else. Thats my honest dialogue.
|
|
Kolt!
Well-Known Member
Joined: Jan 31, 2016 17:45:32 GMT -5
Posts: 1,311
|
Post by Kolt! on Feb 1, 2016 12:14:27 GMT -5
But even if society accepted me as male looking femine personally id still want my stubble, my abs, my short hair, my packer. But thats just me not all transmen
|
|
shanendoah
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 19:44:48 GMT -5
Posts: 10,096
Mini-Profile Name Color: 0c3563
|
Post by shanendoah on Feb 1, 2016 12:17:44 GMT -5
Kolt! - Thank you for being willing to share.
|
|
Chocolate Lover
Distinguished Associate
Joined: Dec 17, 2010 15:54:19 GMT -5
Posts: 23,200
|
Post by Chocolate Lover on Feb 1, 2016 12:23:30 GMT -5
Kolt! - Thank you for being willing to share.
|
|
gregintenn
Senior Member
Resident hillbilly
Joined: Dec 28, 2015 17:07:59 GMT -5
Posts: 2,840
|
Post by gregintenn on Feb 1, 2016 12:33:39 GMT -5
O.k. I give up. What's a "packer"? An artificial pecker?
|
|
Deleted
Joined: Jun 24, 2024 8:17:47 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2016 12:34:01 GMT -5
That is a mean thing to say. Virgil is on a message board where people should be encouraged to have honest dialogue. I have a hard time imagining Virgil goes up to strangers and forces his views onto them. Anyway I think it a mean way to talk to people about different opinions. That said, I have a different view then Virgil on this and have not read many of his posts, so maybe I am wrong. idk In my opinion it was not mean for me to say because it is fact. People that refuse to call someone by the identity that they are...being called she instead of he...makes people depressed its people that refuse to accept people for who they are. It wasnt mean. It is fact. And here is why some trans do have surgery to be accepted...to hide. Society should accept people for who they are rather they transition or not but they do not. I dream of a world where there is no coming out...people can love who they want or dress and be be the way they want but were a long way from that. I think as my generation and younger starts taking over theyll be more hope personally. Each younger generation slowly becomes more liberal in regards to accepting people without judgement. But were so far a long And yes blacks are still treated poorly. A long road it is to be accepted. But ill never quit the fight. Nobody should rather be dead then be who they are if its not effecting someone else. Thats my honest dialogue. I do not know what society should do. I think people should search their conscience, reflect on their understanding of facts and morality and make the best choice they can. I have read many of Honeysalt's post and think she is ----- (right or factual or something, idk what word to use here). My view used to be 'live and let live, but I don't really understand what these people are thinking'. Now it is 'live and let live, but I understand a bit more of it'. I am not opposed to people being who they think they are. I had some posters say ugly things about me and it hurt my feeling a lot, and was not a true view of what I think. I think saying "people want to kill themselves because of poster x" is a very ugly thing to say or accuse someone of. My opinion for what its worth
|
|
Kolt!
Well-Known Member
Joined: Jan 31, 2016 17:45:32 GMT -5
Posts: 1,311
|
Post by Kolt! on Feb 1, 2016 12:58:34 GMT -5
Kolt! - Thank you for being willing to share. No problem im pretty open but i can be rather blunt and forward too. I got sidetracked in giving advice but im glad your asking how to deal with this instead of just fully ditching. This is a difficult situation. One cant expect a wife to stay with someone transitioning but one also cant expect someone to suffer forever in the body that doesnt suit their minds either. Its tough. Its sad she waited so long to come out and with this brought a wife into the madness. I feel sorry for the both of them. Ive been fortunate to be surrounded with people that automatically accepted me without a blink of an eye. I was fortunate to be able to be me at an earlier age. Shes strong for staying in a form of her for so long without breaking i dont think i could have. Just remember a little love and acceptance goes a long way.
|
|
Kolt!
Well-Known Member
Joined: Jan 31, 2016 17:45:32 GMT -5
Posts: 1,311
|
Post by Kolt! on Feb 1, 2016 13:05:48 GMT -5
O.k. I give up. What's a "packer"? An artificial pecker? Hahahahaha yes sir. ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ? the best part about it according to some of my exes too is they always get what they want with me ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ? why i dont want surgery..dont like that one on to the next one. They also dont fear getting pregnent ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ?? except i want kids some day so thats kind of a bummer. Im not going to apolozise to virgil for the fact that ive seen his posts. The he/she thing is just one wrong thing and hurtful thing ive seen him say. Its not all him. Its def not all on him but people like him with the refusal to accrpt what someone asks to be referred to does make people hate themselves..it does make them want to die not being accepted. It is fact. Virgil can call me whatever he likes. However ill be a lot more verbal if he were to say it to someone i know cant handle the nonacceptance. That was me being very light. Oh my gosh the question marks are supposed to be laughing faces or a wink >.>
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Feb 1, 2016 13:40:41 GMT -5
O.k. I give up. What's a "packer"? An artificial pecker? Hahahahaha yes sir. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/huh.gif) ? the best part about it according to some of my exes too is they always get what they want with me ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/huh.gif) ? why i dont want surgery..dont like that one on to the next one. They also dont fear getting pregnent ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/huh.gif) ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/huh.gif) ?? except i want kids some day so thats kind of a bummer. Im not going to apolozise to virgil for the fact that ive seen his posts. The he/she thing is just one wrong thing and hurtful thing ive seen him say. Its not all him. Its def not all on him but people like him with the refusal to accrpt what someone asks to be referred to does make people hate themselves..it does make them want to die not being accepted. It is fact. Virgil can call me whatever he likes. However ill be a lot more verbal if he were to say it to someone i know cant handle the nonacceptance. That was me being very light. Oh my gosh the question marks are supposed to be laughing faces or a wink >.> If you look too the right of the quick reply box you'll see the smilies there. The arrow to the right of the smilies will show you all of them. Just click on one to put it into your post. Hope that helps. Don't hesitate to ask if you have other questions as you post. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/smiley.png) mmhmm, Administrator
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Feb 1, 2016 13:45:19 GMT -5
O.k. I give up. What's a "packer"? An artificial pecker? Hahahahaha yes sir. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/huh.gif) ? the best part about it according to some of my exes too is they always get what they want with me ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/huh.gif) ? why i dont want surgery..dont like that one on to the next one. They also dont fear getting pregnent ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/huh.gif) ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/huh.gif) ?? except i want kids some day so thats kind of a bummer. Im not going to apolozise to virgil for the fact that ive seen his posts. The he/she thing is just one wrong thing and hurtful thing ive seen him say. Its not all him. Its def not all on him but people like him with the refusal to accrpt what someone asks to be referred to does make people hate themselves..it does make them want to die not being accepted. It is fact. Virgil can call me whatever he likes. However ill be a lot more verbal if he were to say it to someone i know cant handle the nonacceptance. That was me being very light. Oh my gosh the question marks are supposed to be laughing faces or a wink >.> I'm glad you're here to share with us and I know I'm not the only one who feels that way. The opportunity to learn should never be pushed aside. Even if it doesn't change your view, it will always add to your knowledge base. That can't be a bad thing. Also, don't feel most here will reject you. I've found it to be quite the opposite. Most of our folks are able to adjust and accommodate differences amongst people. Some will not be as accepting, but that's true for all of us in a way. Not everyone is going to be accepted by everyone; yet, all of us are human beings. None of us is better, or worse, than another. It's our actions that define the good and the not-so-good in us more clearly. Here, we have only our words so part of the picture is always going to be missing.
|
|
shanendoah
Senior Associate
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 19:44:48 GMT -5
Posts: 10,096
Mini-Profile Name Color: 0c3563
|
Post by shanendoah on Feb 1, 2016 13:51:49 GMT -5
Kolt! - I am a bit older than you, but I can honestly say that "ditching" either of the friends involved in this was never a consideration for myself, my spouse, or the other friends in our group. The transitioning friend knows she has our support and that we will be there for her, because we have been her friends for 20 years. Her wife has only been part of our group for less than 10 years (they've been married not quite 8), and she is up here without her own personal support group. The vast majority of her friends up here are people who have been friends with her spouse longer, so we all want to make sure she knows we support her, too, no matter what.
At the moment, it seems like they plan on staying together. The transitioning friend is a much happier person now than she ever was before, and that seems to be having a good affect on the marriage. It would be fabulous if they are able to stay together, but we also want both of them to know that we will support both of them if that doesn't happen. Because this is a fundamental change to the relationship.
They join us most weeks for "Sunday Family Dinner", so we do see them on a regular basis.
And now that the wife's cousin has gone back home, C and I need to tell Pop Tart, since she will essentially be watching this transition one week at a time like we will.
|
|
mmhmm
Administrator
It's a great pity the right of free speech isn't based on the obligation to say something sensible.
Joined: Dec 25, 2010 18:13:34 GMT -5
Posts: 31,770
Today's Mood: Saddened by Events
Location: Memory Lane
Favorite Drink: Water
|
Post by mmhmm on Feb 1, 2016 13:57:41 GMT -5
Kolt! - I am a bit older than you, but I can honestly say that "ditching" either of the friends involved in this was never a consideration for myself, my spouse, or the other friends in our group. The transitioning friend knows she has our support and that we will be there for her, because we have been her friends for 20 years. Her wife has only been part of our group for less than 10 years (they've been married not quite 8), and she is up here without her own personal support group. The vast majority of her friends up here are people who have been friends with her spouse longer, so we all want to make sure she knows we support her, too, no matter what.
At the moment, it seems like they plan on staying together. The transitioning friend is a much happier person now than she ever was before, and that seems to be having a good affect on the marriage. It would be fabulous if they are able to stay together, but we also want both of them to know that we will support both of them if that doesn't happen. Because this is a fundamental change to the relationship.
They join us most weeks for "Sunday Family Dinner", so we do see them on a regular basis.
And now that the wife's cousin has gone back home, C and I need to tell Pop Tart, since she will essentially be watching this transition one week at a time like we will. Your family's attitude, and that of your friends, is laudable. These folks are lucky to have you all for support. It might be a bumpy ride but it'll be a lot easier to navigate with the strong support you are all offering. KUDOS!
|
|