Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Dec 4, 2015 15:04:00 GMT -5
Who did she verbally or in writing pledge it to as the morning attack began? Your article does not say. Supposedly to the head of ISIS under a pseudonym account. I read that after. My comment was based solely on what the posted quoted in his post. I then opened the link and read further. So I deleted the post.
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Post by Value Buy on Dec 4, 2015 15:33:04 GMT -5
Still no public photo of this assassin? New police update at 11 pacific time Here you go.
Weltz, although I understand your thoughts on this, please supply a link, as many terrorist deniers here will claim it isn't her Please note: no board members were actually "intentionally emotionally hurt" by this request. ty
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 4, 2015 15:39:18 GMT -5
in that case, i would call this "domestic terrorism", wouldn't you? While working in concert with a non-domestic terrorist. of course! the Ft. Hood shooter has similarities. but here is my point: this is not an issue of "immigration", right? this guy was a US citizen.
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 4, 2015 15:40:19 GMT -5
what more do we know about the shooter, Opti. was he born in the US? He was born in the US. He unfortunately seems to fit the profile of those nice quiet guys who seems to be OK with everything, but apparently are not. Several dating profiles on out the country websites and he wanted her to wear a hijab. precisely. and this has profound implications for American Muslims.
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Post by Value Buy on Dec 4, 2015 15:42:37 GMT -5
I don't understand why the distinction is so important. Is it because some people don't want to acknowledge a terrorist attack happened on Obama's watch? Or is it because an ISS attack doesn't square with the political agendas of accepting Syrian refugees or gun control? i deleted your personal remark. please refrain from making them in the future, or the result will be the same. the distinction is important because we are at war with ISIS (arguably), but we are not at war with abortion clinic bombers and disgruntled employees. nothing more or less. please stop trying to trivialize the distinction. tyia. And how did you take that as a personal remark that you deleted? He remarked about the "left". No names were mentioned. Or were you just offended by it?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2015 15:43:33 GMT -5
dj, I will not be discussing any semantics today. It is obvious what happened here. can i tell you a little story? earlier this year, a friend got called out on FB for touching another friend's breasts. it turned out that he was giving her an innocent hug, and she mistook it. but rather than simply telling him "your hug made me feel uncomfortable", she wrote a 1000 word diatribe on FB calling him a sexual predator. the result was that the entire community had to choose sides in this argument. they either stood with the "predator" or they stood with the "victim". that this split fell along gender lines should be obvious. obvious, is, after all, in the eyes of the beholder. what you are doing here is dividing those of us that want to understand the WHOLE truth about this incident against those who are content knowing one aspect of it. and that is fine. but i would appreciate it if you would not demonize those that want to know the whole truth, call them naiive, or call them unpatriotic. we are just interested in ALL of the facts. that is it. we are not your enemy, VB. ISIS is. stop demonizing and alienating us. TYIA. that goes for you, too, sweets. we are all Americans here, OK? we are ALLIES. if you are thinking otherwise, then ISIS has already won. Sure. Although this is my 1st post and last post in this thread so don't know how I'm demonizing or alienating or making you an enemy, ok?
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djAdvocate
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 4, 2015 15:43:20 GMT -5
many terrorist deniers here there are no terrorist deniers here, VB. please cut this shit out. now.
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 4, 2015 15:44:19 GMT -5
i deleted your personal remark. please refrain from making them in the future, or the result will be the same. the distinction is important because we are at war with ISIS (arguably), but we are not at war with abortion clinic bombers and disgruntled employees. nothing more or less. please stop trying to trivialize the distinction. tyia. And? personal remark deleted. and in this case, there was nothing left to respond to that was NOT personal, other than this: this discussion is not about posters, VB. it is about a terrorist attack in San Bernardino. capice?
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 4, 2015 15:45:37 GMT -5
don't know how I'm demonizing or alienating or making you an enemy, ok? by "liking" the demonizers posts, that's how. oh, and by calling us "f(*King idiots". yeah. that.
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Post by Opti on Dec 4, 2015 15:46:13 GMT -5
While working in concert with a non-domestic terrorist. of course! the Ft. Hood shooter has similarities. but here is my point: this is not an issue of "immigration", right? this guy was a US citizen. Well, she immigrated to become his wife. It is still not clear whether she convinced him to become a crazy shooter, vice versa or it was a mutual decision. Right or wrong, I have a feeling I am not alone in believing she might have started the slide into radical craziness.
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Post by Ombud on Dec 4, 2015 15:48:31 GMT -5
from your link: A count of all attacks since 1970 that took place in United States. A terrorist attack is defined as the threatened or actual use of illegal force and violence by a non‐state actor to attain a political, economic, religious, or social goal through fear, coercion, or intimidation. what goals were sought in this attack? Fear ... mission accomplished
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Post by Value Buy on Dec 4, 2015 15:48:54 GMT -5
oh well....... I guess free discussion is ok as long as it goes exactly one way.
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Post by Tennesseer on Dec 4, 2015 15:49:28 GMT -5
Better intelligence may require more eavesdropping on U.S. citizens and non-citizen, but legally in the U.S. Many folks believe that is a violation of our Constitution. So should we profile potential Islamist terrorists? How about profiling and eavesdropping on potential white nationalists/supremacists and anti-abortion terrorists too? After all, they have a long history of death and destruction in the U.S. Far longer than Islamist terrorists Obviously the Feds have a tough job to do the correct legal thing. It s obvious they blew it on this woman, which should have also brought more attention on her husband who was a citizen. Political correctness allowed this to happen. Once there is legitimate smoke, most federal judges will give the proper ok for advanced surveilance. Valuebuy-do you believe the U.S. senate was correct/wrong in this vote: GOP blocks bill to stop terrorists from buying gunsDecember 4, 2015 Senate Republicans rejected a bill that aims to stop suspected terrorists from legally buying guns, on Thursday. The vote came a day after at least 14 people were killed during the San Bernardino massacre in California by two suspects, including a woman said to have pledged allegiance to ISIS. Forty-five senators voted for the bill and 54 voted against it. One Democrat, Sen. Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota, and one Republican, Sen. Mark Kirk of Illinois, crossed party lines. The measure would have denied people on the terrorist watch list the ability to buy guns. Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), who sponsored the legislation, argued that former President George W. Bush initially proposed the legislation in 2007, and the Obama administration also supports it. The NRA did not respond to a request on Friday for comment. But the gun rights lobby group told MSBC last month it wants to ensure that Americans who are wrongly on the terrorist list are are afforded their constitutional right to due process. However, the bill would allow people to legally challenge a denial by the Justice Department to purchase a firearm, if they believe they were mistakenly placed on the terrorist watchlist. Also on Thursday, the Senate failed to pass another bill that would have expanded background checks to gun show and online firearms sales. The measure would also prevents convicted felons and the mentally ill from having access to weapons. GOP blocks bill to stop terrorists from buying gunsI as you would imagine would have voted for it as those on the watch list could appeal their name being on the watch list. As a side note, I would not have titled the linked article that way. I would have titled the article 'GOP blocks bill to stop people on terrorist watch list from buying guns'. Less inflammatory.
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 4, 2015 15:50:17 GMT -5
from your link: A count of all attacks since 1970 that took place in United States. A terrorist attack is defined as the threatened or actual use of illegal force and violence by a non‐state actor to attain a political, economic, religious, or social goal through fear, coercion, or intimidation. what goals were sought in this attack? Fear ... mission accomplished this one i can go along with completely.
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 4, 2015 15:51:06 GMT -5
Obviously the Feds have a tough job to do the correct legal thing. It s obvious they blew it on this woman, which should have also brought more attention on her husband who was a citizen. Political correctness allowed this to happen. Once there is legitimate smoke, most federal judges will give the proper ok for advanced surveilance. Valuebuy-do you believe the U.S. senate was correct/wrong in this vote: GOP blocks bill to stop terrorists from buying gunsDecember 4, 2015 Senate Republicans rejected a bill that aims to stop suspected terrorists from legally buying guns, on Thursday. The vote came a day after at least 14 people were killed during the San Bernardino massacre in California by two suspects, including a woman said to have pledged allegiance to ISIS. Forty-five senators voted for the bill and 54 voted against it. One Democrat, Sen. Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota, and one Republican, Sen. Mark Kirk of Illinois, crossed party lines. The measure would have denied people on the terrorist watch list the ability to buy guns. Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), who sponsored the legislation, argued that former President George W. Bush initially proposed the legislation in 2007, and the Obama administration also supports it. The NRA did not respond to a request on Friday for comment. But the gun rights lobby group told MSBC last month it wants to ensure that Americans who are wrongly on the terrorist list are are afforded their constitutional right to due process. However, the bill would allow people to legally challenge a denial by the Justice Department to purchase a firearm, if they believe they were mistakenly placed on the terrorist watchlist. Also on Thursday, the Senate failed to pass another bill that would have expanded background checks to gun show and online firearms sales. The measure would also prevents convicted felons and the mentally ill from having access to weapons. GOP blocks bill to stop terrorists from buying gunsI as you would imagine would have voted for it as those on the watch list could appeal their name being on the watch list. As a side note, I would not have titled the linked article that way. I would have titled the article 'GOP blocks bill to stop people on terrorist watch list from buying guns'. Less inflammatory. yeah, wouldn't want to do anything sensible like preventing whackoes from getting AR-15's.
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Post by Ombud on Dec 4, 2015 15:52:40 GMT -5
this is not an issue of "immigration", right? this guy was a US citizen. Wife wasn't vetted .... but women do not pose a threat? Actually I think it's sexist to state that only men are capable of heinous acts and therefore women do not require the same scrutiny on immigration
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Post by Value Buy on Dec 4, 2015 15:54:20 GMT -5
Response to Tennesseer on post 318
Yes I think this was reprehensible, based on the article posted. I do not know whether there was something buried in the bill that would make Republicans feel this is a bad bill, but based on what you posted, yes, they are wrong.
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 4, 2015 15:55:09 GMT -5
this is not an issue of "immigration", right? this guy was a US citizen. Wife wasn't vetted .... but women do not pose a threat? Actually I think it's sexist to state that only men are capable of heinous acts and therefore women do not require the same scrutiny on immigration i hadn't honestly thought about that yet. thanks for bringing it to my attention.
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Tennesseer
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Post by Tennesseer on Dec 4, 2015 15:55:28 GMT -5
Response to Tennesseer on post 318 Yes I think this was reprehensible, based on the article posted. I do not know whether there was something buried in the bill that would make Republicans feel this is a bad bill, but based on what you posted, yes, they are wrong. Government is trying to do something, anything. Yet government stops it. I don't get it.
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 4, 2015 15:57:05 GMT -5
oh well....... I guess free discussion is ok as long as it goes exactly one way. you are free to discuss anything other than me, or other posters that may or may not include me. if you feel compelled to do so, we are going to have some back and forth, and i think you might have some issues with management, as well. but if you disagree, you are "free" to do whatever you like, and see how it goes for you. best wishes.
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 4, 2015 15:58:10 GMT -5
of course! the Ft. Hood shooter has similarities. but here is my point: this is not an issue of "immigration", right? this guy was a US citizen. Well, she immigrated to become his wife. It is still not clear whether she convinced him to become a crazy shooter, vice versa or it was a mutual decision. Right or wrong, I have a feeling I am not alone in believing she might have started the slide into radical craziness. entirely possible, but here is where my guessing ends. i will wait to find out.
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Post by Value Buy on Dec 4, 2015 16:01:39 GMT -5
Response to Tennesseer on post 318 Yes I think this was reprehensible, based on the article posted. I do not know whether there was something buried in the bill that would make Republicans feel this is a bad bill, but based on what you posted, yes, they are wrong. Government is trying to do something, anything. Yet government stops it. I don't get it. When I awoke this morning my wife asked me what the heck was wrong with Congress. She said there were three measures voted down that made actually no sense whatsoever, involving guns and terrorists. She could not tell me specifically, but she had Joe Scarborough on. Evidently Carson confused hummus with Hamas, and Trump said the Jewish community does not back him because he will not accept money from them. I asked her if she recorded it for me, and she said, no, your blood pressure is too high now.
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 4, 2015 16:02:45 GMT -5
so, anyone read "Dying To Win" by Pape, yet? how about "Sleeping With The Devil" by Baer.
anyone?
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Post by Opti on Dec 4, 2015 16:03:01 GMT -5
this is not an issue of "immigration", right? this guy was a US citizen. Wife wasn't vetted .... but women do not pose a threat? Actually I think it's sexist to state that only men are capable of heinous acts and therefore women do not require the same scrutiny on immigration How do you know she was not vetted?
It is quite possible the kind of Visa she was on, is less rigorous on background checks. If that is true, hopefully that will change very quickly. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K-1_visa
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 4, 2015 16:08:48 GMT -5
i have to admit i was worried about it as soon as i learned this dude's name. i don't like myself for it, but there it is.
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Post by Tennesseer on Dec 4, 2015 16:19:51 GMT -5
Government is trying to do something, anything. Yet government stops it. I don't get it. When I awoke this morning my wife asked me what the heck was wrong with Congress. She said there were three measures voted down that made actually no sense whatsoever, involving guns and terrorists. She could not tell me specifically, but she had Joe Scarborough on. Evidently Carson confused hummus with Hamas, and Trump said the Jewish community does not back him because he will not accept money from them. I asked her if she recorded it for me, and she said, no, your blood pressure is too high now. Both Trump and Carson (among a few others) spoke at the Republican Jewish Coalition meeting/conference. Trump said the following to the audience (in case you have not seen the complete quote in an on-line article): "You're not going to support me even though you know I'm the best thing that could happen to Israel," Trump said. "I know why you're not going to support me — because I don't want your money. You want to control your own politician." Trump irks Jewish donors with comments on Mideast peace
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Post by Value Buy on Dec 4, 2015 16:23:06 GMT -5
All the clothing still hanging in the closet on hangars. I would think every piece of clothing would have been removed, checked for any evidence, notes, etc, and removed from the premises. The rooms do not even look like they were torn apart to look for anything hidden away. Amazing Vandals would have torn the place apart better than ATF and FBI Update. MSNBC was showing footage of their apartment. They showed a wastebasket with shredded paper in it. Wouldn't the FBI take shredded papers to rebuild the document for any pertinent evidence or information? Reporter also said there was enough pampers in there to use for two weeks, and wondered if the assassins moved their attack date up in time for some reason.
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Post by djAdvocate on Dec 4, 2015 16:34:38 GMT -5
When I awoke this morning my wife asked me what the heck was wrong with Congress. She said there were three measures voted down that made actually no sense whatsoever, involving guns and terrorists. She could not tell me specifically, but she had Joe Scarborough on. Evidently Carson confused hummus with Hamas, and Trump said the Jewish community does not back him because he will not accept money from them. I asked her if she recorded it for me, and she said, no, your blood pressure is too high now. Both Trump and Carson (among a few others) spoke at the Republican Jewish Coalition meeting/conference. Trump said the following to the audience (in case you have not seen the complete quote in an on-line article): "You're not going to support me even though you know I'm the best thing that could happen to Israel," Trump said. "I know why you're not going to support me — because I don't want your money. You want to control your own politician." Trump irks Jewish donors with comments on Mideast peaceDonald: no, they not going to vote for you because Jews have not voted for a Republican president in over a century. money has nothing to do with it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2015 16:40:46 GMT -5
don't know how I'm demonizing or alienating or making you an enemy, ok? by "liking" the demonizers posts, that's how. oh, and by calling us "f(*King idiots". yeah. that. dj - I have apologized for that , sorry you have not accepted it. I agreed with the comment I liked. You like to decipher words and in this case I see no need to. That's all, no enemy or demon involved.
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Post by billisonboard on Dec 4, 2015 16:42:57 GMT -5
...I find it interesting that now many on the left are debating the semantics of what constitutes "terrorism" now that there was an ISIS inspired attack on U.S soil. I don't understand why the distinction is so important. Is it because some people don't want to acknowledge a terrorist attack happened on Obama's watch? Or is it because an ISS attack doesn't square with the political agendas of accepting Syrian refugees or gun control? Here is someone from the left (me) discussing the issue. Check the date. It is long before this latest attack: I need some clarification. What exactly makes one a "terrorist"? It is easy to define one who has committed an act of terror to label them a terrorist but what of a person who has committed no such act. I would have no problem labeling someone who has engaged in a training program as a suspected terrorist. But if they had attended a recruiting conference and walked away? Read a book? Visited a website? What do you do with one who has done any of these things that are short of being a crime? Lock them up forever? If an occupying force were to take over the US and bring in a civilian population that displaces our native population, I could see myself potentially engaging in acts against them (if I weren't killed in the initial fighting). Is it enough to admit that to declare me a "terrorist"? Terrorism is a strategy employed to attempt to gain certain outcomes, the major one is to create within the general population a feeling of terror which motivates them to demand action from their political leaders. I would contend that the attack in San Bernardino was an attempt to halt Syrian Muslim refugees from finding a safe haven in the US. Anything that we do that is to the benefit of the general Muslim population is to the disadvantage of those who are attempting to create the perception that there is a war by the West against "Islam". Something to think about. if the distinction of terrorist attack/not terrorist attack is unimportant why would it be important to declare it a terrorist attack?
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