NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Nov 9, 2015 19:26:29 GMT -5
cut me a little slack NNP.
I've kept my mouth shut about it for the last 39 years, it's not like i'm nosing into this at the first sign of a question. Ok, slack is coming your way My mother went with a gentlemen for 31 yrs and I guess since we didn't get into each others buiness I just spouted off before thinking. My bad
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quince
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Post by quince on Nov 9, 2015 19:38:55 GMT -5
Can you say that to her? Not "marry the dude", but "Hey, can you work on your plans for the future? It is important to me that you set things up to make sure you're taken care of." (I mean, no throwing your spouse under the bus...)
Now, if she says "I'll just move in with you!" STILL don't throw your spouse under the bus, but I think it is fair to say "We're working our own futures right now...while we will help you as we can, we're not set up to house and support you indefinitely."
I mostly expect adults to have their own lives sorted out, so I'd never think to ask these kind of questions/get involved in this kind of thing.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Nov 9, 2015 19:55:41 GMT -5
Zib and Tloon...it doesn't rhyme. Zib is opinionated, you are almost crazy...but in a fun and good way. You know that. Does POM and ZIB rhymes? Because it seems like they 2 related? And both are very similar in their 'character' I can see no value in jumping into a thread that doesn't concern you for the sole purpose of chunking verbal rocks at other posters, tloonya. Don't do it again. mmhmm, Administrator
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truthbound
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Post by truthbound on Nov 10, 2015 5:55:30 GMT -5
situation:
Mom lives with BF for last 20 years.
She is 64, working PT, will get 1,100 in SS each month.
She has around 50K in an IRA.
Her BF says he will give her the land they live on (5 acres of his 40), that has the mobile home they live in, plus two rented out mobile homes and that the rest of the land will go to his two sons.
There is no will.
I'd like her to get the 5 acres written down in a will so she gets a place to live and some rental income.
OR
I'd like her to marry him, so that she'd get his SS (2,300/month instead of 1,100) plus his pension (probably $1,000/mo) plus she'd have no dispute on keeping the 5 acres with a place to live.
this is a swing of
1,100 and no place to live (worst case)
or
$3,300 plus rent ($600) plus a free place to live
The difference is her being self supporting and really comfortable, or being barely able to live and need help from myself and DW. So the real question is how do I convince my mom to marry for the money.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Nov 10, 2015 7:10:40 GMT -5
How about leaving mom alone and letting her live her life her way?
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Nov 10, 2015 11:42:32 GMT -5
LMAO, so this is another thread about foisting Mom onto a guy so you don't have to support her? I'm pretty sure I'll have to help my mom out. Do I like it? Not really. I'm just hoping that by that point I'll be able to afford a place with a MIL suite so she doesn't drive me nuts.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Nov 10, 2015 11:50:44 GMT -5
How about leaving mom alone and letting her live her life her way? Sure, and then what do i say in 5 years when she's on my doorstep, I have to delay my retirement 3-5 years and my wife hates me? Welcome to real life, it doesn't always go as planned? When you were talking about having to support her and delaying retirement I didn't think you meant that short of a period of time. I thought you meant like wouldn't be able to at all b/c you'd be sandwiched like a lot of baby boomers are. So you want to force your mom to get married even though neither one of them may want it, so you can get a whopping three years extra years of retirement?
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Nov 10, 2015 12:00:36 GMT -5
How about leaving mom alone and letting her live her life her way? Sure, and then what do i say in 5 years when she's on my doorstep, I have to delay my retirement 3-5 years and my wife hates me? I don't think there's anything wrong with having a discussion about the financial implications of her decisions. It's not like he's posting on Craigslist trying to find her a date.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Nov 10, 2015 12:04:06 GMT -5
Sure, and then what do i say in 5 years when she's on my doorstep, I have to delay my retirement 3-5 years and my wife hates me? Welcome to real life, it doesn't always go as planned? When you were talking about having to support her and delaying retirement I didn't think you meant that short of a period of time. I thought you meant like wouldn't be able to b/c you'd be sandwiched like a lot of baby boomers are. So you want to force your mom to get married even though neither one of them may want it, so you can get a whopping three years extra years of retirement? also 3-5 years of not sleeping on the couch.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Nov 10, 2015 12:08:34 GMT -5
I don't think there is anything wrong with having a discussion about long term financial planning, but I don't think it's right to try to pressure someone to get married b/c it's in YOUR best interest that they do so.
Who is to say if they got married things wouldn't end up worse? A lot of widows end up in the poorhouse after exhausting resources to care for a sick spouse. A lot of women also end up finanically worse off when their spouses die b/c they were counting on his assets to protect them. .. only to find out there wasn't as much/none as they thought.
IMO a better idea would be to discuss long term finances without even bringing the boyfriend into the equation. Make sure she can support herself WITHOUT having to marry him.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Nov 10, 2015 13:00:07 GMT -5
How about leaving mom alone and letting her live her life her way? Sure, and then what do i say in 5 years when she's on my doorstep, I have to delay my retirement 3-5 years and my wife hates me? Well, you can hope that you Mom is like me and would rather dumbster dive and live in my car rather than move in with my son and his wife And I love my son/dil and we are close but no way no how. There are options out there other than moving in with you. But I will admit that in the 33 yrs since my divorce I haven't "depended" on anyone but myself. I may not live the lifestyle of the rich and famous but I live the lifestyle that I am comfortable with and a pox on anyone who doesn't like/approve!!! And as NomoreDramaQ1015 said: Who is to say if they got married things wouldn't end up worse? widows end up in the poorhouse after exhausting resources to care for a sick spouse. A lot of women also end up finanically worse off when their spouses die b/c they were counting on his assets to protect them. .. only to find out there wasn't as much/none as they thought.Well, bold and quote are crapping out on me but that's all I have to say for now!!
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Nov 10, 2015 13:09:09 GMT -5
How about leaving mom alone and letting her live her life her way? Sure, and then what do i say in 5 years when she's on my doorstep, I have to delay my retirement 3-5 years and my wife hates me? Either help her or don't. The decision is yours.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Nov 10, 2015 13:23:30 GMT -5
I cared for my mother here at home during her final years. I was happy to do so and so glad I could. She, after all, cared for me when I was helpless, when I was ill, when I just needed my mom! I really can't understand where you're coming from, I'm afraid. I considered it an honor and was glad she had the faith in me to allow me to be her caregiver as well as her daughter.
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steph08
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Post by steph08 on Nov 10, 2015 13:50:05 GMT -5
I don't think it is too much to ask her to consider it, and I think the will is a good idea if that is what they agreed upon. If that is what the BF wants, I don't see hm why getting it written out would be a big deal.
I think it is one thing to take in a sick parent l, it is another to take in a parent who spent beyond their means and didn't protect themselves for their later years.
I save for retirement in the hope that I won't have to rely on my kids for monetary support.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Nov 10, 2015 13:56:29 GMT -5
Either help her or don't. The decision is yours. OK, Yoda.
Or I can get ahead of this. Again, I'm not going in with a shotgun, i just really want to understand and try to help her find a solutions she's happy with, but that is the most logical choice. If she really doesn't want to marry him, I'm totally fine with it, and she doesn't even have to say why (though I bet she will).
I just want her taken care of and also to have the least burden on me, frankly.
So you think your mom is a burden? Please tell me you aren't an only child and she has another child to help her when she's older just like she took care of them for years growing up. Wow. ETA : What makes you think that she's not happy with her life now? Don't you think she would've married him by now if that's what she wanted?
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steph08
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Post by steph08 on Nov 10, 2015 14:12:50 GMT -5
OK, Yoda.
Or I can get ahead of this. Again, I'm not going in with a shotgun, i just really want to understand and try to help her find a solutions she's happy with, but that is the most logical choice. If she really doesn't want to marry him, I'm totally fine with it, and she doesn't even have to say why (though I bet she will).
I just want her taken care of and also to have the least burden on me, frankly.
So you think your mom is a burden? Please tell me you aren't an only child and she has another child to help her when she's older just like she took care of them for years growing up. Wow. ETA : What makes you think that she's not happy with her life now? Don't you think she would've married him by now if that's what she wanted? Perhaps she just doesn't understand the monetary implications of not getting married. On the other side, I know several older couples who don't get married because that would cut their pension benefits. Unfortunately, the whole world doesn't think like YM. haha!
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Nov 10, 2015 14:26:44 GMT -5
So you think your mom is a burden? Please tell me you aren't an only child and she has another child to help her when she's older just like she took care of them for years growing up. Wow. ETA : What makes you think that she's not happy with her life now? Don't you think she would've married him by now if that's what she wanted? Hi Andi, not sure why you're being so pointy about this. If you require help from someone else, you're a burden to them. It doesn't mean they dont' love you, and won't take care of you, but it does make you a burden, that's why I used that word. If i'm cutting a check for $1,000/month for 30 years, I consider that a burden. It doesn't mean mom's not worth it, and it doesn't mean I wouldnt' do it, but it does mean it puts a tremendous tax on me. NPV of $355,000
Is that a trivial amount of money to you? would you at least want to potentially NOT payout $355,000? Just curious, you're awful willing to spend six figures of my money to avoid a conversation.
I wouldn't be willing to pimp my mom out for any amount of money. I'm on the other side of the spectrum and fully intend on moving my parents in with me when they get older and taking care of them like they did me. They don't have to come live with me if they don't want to, but the door is always open.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Nov 10, 2015 14:32:37 GMT -5
So you think your mom is a burden? Please tell me you aren't an only child and she has another child to help her when she's older just like she took care of them for years growing up. Wow. ETA : What makes you think that she's not happy with her life now? Don't you think she would've married him by now if that's what she wanted? Perhaps she just doesn't understand the monetary implications of not getting married. On the other side, I know several older couples who don't get married because that would cut their pension benefits. Unfortunately, the whole world doesn't think like YM. haha! Could be. Or maybe she's happy with the way things are. If the guy has asked her several times and she's refused, maybe she doesn't want to marry him and should be allowed to live life her way. And having a conversation with her about the financial ramifications of getting married or not is way different than trying to convince her to marry a man she clearly does not want to.
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mmhmm
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Post by mmhmm on Nov 10, 2015 14:32:33 GMT -5
I don't consider caring for a parent a burden. Not at all. I consider the opportunity to do so a blessing and a gift. It doesn't matter to me whether that person has money, or not. What matters is the opportunity to give back. I cherish that and will always be thankful to my mother for giving me that chance.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Nov 10, 2015 14:39:21 GMT -5
I don't consider caring for a parent a burden. Not at all. I consider the opportunity to do so a blessing and a gift. It doesn't matter to me whether that person has money, or not. What matters is the opportunity to give back. I cherish that and will always be thankful to my mother for giving me that chance. This. I can't imagine living in a family where a child could consider their parent a burden and put any other commitment before them. I guess I grew up differently. I grew up being taught that family is the most important thing and even though some of my family pisses me off, I would still be there in any way I can.
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quince
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Post by quince on Nov 10, 2015 14:45:49 GMT -5
I consider caring for a parent a burden.
My grandparents are in their 70's, in great shape, and they take care of themselves. They have long since had their financial shit sorted out, and take care of everything else, as well. No kid of theirs has to take care of them, and they have 4 that could theoretically split the load.
I expect my parents to make a good-faith effort to arrange things in a similar fashion. They do NOT want to move in with me, because we don't do the luxuries they enjoy, and my brother is even more frugal, so hopefully that pushes them further toward figuring out their own lives.
I will straight up leave my husband if he tries to move his mom in with us. She is misogynistic, clueless, racist, intrusive, and I will not give up my ability to be comfortable in my own home. My husband knows how I feel and has no plans to move his mom in at any point.
I WOULD be happy to give limited financial assistance to any of our parents, and if they lived nearby, help with errands and appointments and whatnot- but I am never going to be a primary caretaker for a parent. Never. Our parents are also in their 50's, so if they are not making an effort to figure out their lives for themselves, now, I am not going to let that make my life harder, in the future, anymore than I would expect them to rescue me from a series of fuck-ups I make as an adult. If they were doing their best and having trouble, I would be willing to give more help, but I am not willing to make sacrifices for their well being if they don't do it first.
And my CHILD comes first. My HUSBAND comes second. I come third. After that, our parents have some priority
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Nov 10, 2015 14:50:28 GMT -5
Hey, don't get too stressed out about this, she may outlive you This is for the OP!!!!
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quince
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Post by quince on Nov 10, 2015 14:58:38 GMT -5
And as far as other commitments... his major other commitment is his WIFE. So parents are supposed to come before spouse, for life?
Fine...as long as you discussed that with your spouse before hand. "Please marry me, but before you say yes, just know that my parents come first."
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Nov 10, 2015 15:00:49 GMT -5
I feel like trying ot get her married is kicking hte can down the road b/c there are no assurances he would go first and there are no assurance by the time she needs them there would be any assets left for her ot use.
Better to set things up so she is as independent as possible with no need to dependent on having a husband OR her son.
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Lizard Queen
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Post by Lizard Queen on Nov 10, 2015 15:08:36 GMT -5
Taking care of my mom takes me away from taking care of my kids. Is that a burden? Yes, it is. It's preventing me from having a career, and my family has not been able to go on vacation for 4 years. It's a burden physically, financially, and emotionally. I do it anyway because I love my mom, but you better believe it's a burden! And when it comes towards the end, things get a lot more expensive. If I could boost her monthly income by $1000 by doing a little paperwork, you better believe I'd pursue it.
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andi9899
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Post by andi9899 on Nov 10, 2015 15:10:32 GMT -5
This. I can't imagine living in a family where a child could consider their parent a burden and put any other commitment before them. I guess I grew up differently. I grew up being taught that family is the most important thing and even though some of my family pisses me off, I would still be there in any way I can. your spouse and children don't go ahead of your parents?
I think i remember hearing in church something about putting the new family first
I'm not married and refuse to be. I've been asked a few times but always declined. If it came to "marry me or we're done, I've ended the relationship". I've just never met "the one", I guess. As far as my children go, yes. They are number one in my life. That doesn't mean that I wouldn't take care of my parents too. Even if I had to buy a bigger house or something. My parents don't need me for financial reasons, but I'd help them out if they did. And when they get older, I will let them live with me if they so choose, but they don't have to. I expect that my children will share the same opinion when I get old, but I hope to never need them.
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NoNamePerson
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Post by NoNamePerson on Nov 10, 2015 15:29:37 GMT -5
The M word is a scary word. The guy I lived with for 8 yrs started talking about M and we could buy a condo on the Gulf jointly. I don't do anything related to joint except an occasional smoke. We parted company shortly thereafter.
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cktc
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Post by cktc on Nov 10, 2015 16:09:00 GMT -5
I think if someone's life plan involves your finances and lifestyle it is fair to have a conversation with them about their own. At the very least you can have a conversation about how your finances and lifestyle cannot be part of the plan.
As for parents being a burden, perhaps this is relative to how much of a burden you were considered in your own childhood? I think every family is going to have a different connotation of the word.
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NomoreDramaQ1015
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Post by NomoreDramaQ1015 on Nov 10, 2015 16:11:56 GMT -5
I feel like trying ot get her married is kicking hte can down the road b/c there are no assurances he would go first and there are no assurance by the time she needs them there would be any assets left for her ot use. Better to set things up so she is as independent as possible with no need to dependent on having a husband OR her son. she would be guaranteed his SS survivor benefits, that by themselves would be a game changer in her level of financial security versus her own. You can point that a surviving spouse gets SS benefits but if she doesn't want to get married it's not going to happen. You can lead a horse to water. . .
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midjd
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Post by midjd on Nov 10, 2015 16:19:43 GMT -5
True. I don't think of it in a negative way myself (and I'm sure that's not what alwaysbeoptimizing meant). Physically or financially caring for someone else IS usually a burden, although it doesn't have to be an unpleasant one. And just as an aside, those of us who asked to be born may have some obligation to care for our parents, but I'm guessing the vast majority of us had no say in the situation -- so it's not quite quid pro quo.
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