Why are a lower percentage of men working?

[cronewitch]

money.cnn.com/2015/09/11/news/economy/men-work/index.html?iid=ob_quote_footer&iid=obnetwork

Seems it used to be 97% of men worked now down to 88%. Looks like some are becoming SAHP and facing the same things women with huge gaps face returning to the work force.

Pride might be some of it. When offered a low paid job when they used to earn high amounts it would be discouraging to take the job. When daycare cost more than you make it is easy to say take a few years off then be left with fewer skills and a huge gap. Woman seem more willing to accept they can only make 8-15 an hour after a decade out of the labor force. The underground workforce might be also a problem since they can make more working under the table that at a W-2 job. Obama care might also make it worse since they don't get jobs with medical as easily as we did 20-30 years ago so we needed a job with benefits.

Do you know able bodied men who won't/can't work? Why?

[bobosensei]

I agree with sum dum gai.  Surely there are more men in their mid twenties that are in school full time now.  Either because they got a late start or because they are working on a masters.  And with how easy it is for people to get loans to cover their lifestyle I don't know many people who choose to balance family, school, and full time work.  Both of my sisters married men who worked, but either didn't have a degree or stopped in the middle.  Both lost their jobs around 2007, and both went back to school for several years.  One of them has been laid off multiple times as the places he work are bought out or leave the town where they live.  He's usually offered a transfer position, but does not accept because my sister earns about 6 times what he does.

Also as mentioned since it is now becoming socially acceptable for men to be a stay at home spouse more are doing that.  DH and I have discussed this, and we'd be okay with DH staying home with kids in certain scenarios.  He's more nurturing than I am.

And as always there have been deadbeat men who simply refuse to work.  I have a brother like this.  Despite him having a lengthy criminal record with multiple felonies (mostly gun related), he's always been able to work when he wanted to.  He can never hold a job more than a couple months though.  Used to be because he was just too lazy to go consistently, but now he gets picked up regularly and thrown in jail for lack of child support payments.  Then he loses whatever job he had.  He's had a string of women that help support him.  I think he must do some work under the table to buy beer and cigarettes.  At least one of the women he was with got food stamps for him too.  He's about to turn 32.  If you strung all the days he had a w2 job together since he dropped out of high school I doubt it would come to a year of work that he's done in his whole life.  And I imagine that was mostly spent avoiding doing anything.

People used to have to work if they wanted to survive.  Now you don't.  You might get unemployment, welfare, or just take out tons of student loans.

[Bonny]

I think we'll see more of this trend because there's a higher % of women graduating from college.

I've noted before that very few of our friends' male children are doing well while the girls are focused and moving on.

Sure makes an argument for joining the Military to get some discipline and work skills.

[svwashout]

Lots of them here:
www.early-retirement.org/
although I don't know how large a slice this would be. From the posts there I get the impression that only a small minority of those who are financially independent choose to continue to work.

That's a pretty wide age band at 25 to 54, if the percentage not working is strongly skewed towards the upper end (say from age 50 to 54), then I'd guess ER is a major factor.

[resolution]

The article indicates that a third of the unemployed men have criminal records, which makes it a lot harder to find employment. My own employer used to hire ex-offenders and stopped about 10 years ago, now it is a disqualification from employment. We can probably thank the drug war for some of this.

[muttleynfelix]

I'm not sure we would call my DH ablebodied since he should probably be on disability. But he is has been staying home with our kids since 2009 (even though we didn't have any kids until Jan 2010).

[HoneyBBQ]

I know a few SAHDs. 

Dual income households might mean earlier retirement for some men still in the "work force". 

Reproductive rates are down so less children to pay for... etc.

[phil5185]

A big part of the answer is - "because they don't have to".
At one point in our history, men HAD to work to have food & shelter. You took whatever job was available. Peer pressure kept you away from welfare, laziness, etc.

Now, with so many non-workers, it has become acceptable among peers to sit home & play video games, meet for lunch, ie, no peer pressure. And 99 weeks of UI checks. And working wives to pay the bills and put food on the table. As the link says, lots of drugs, felonies, etc. And one guy said - "the jobs don't pay enough to make it worthwhile', lol. Long ago, that wasn't a choice, if there was a job, you took it. (Altho I hated picking strawberries for a nickle a quart, not going to do that again).

Even at my age, I'm in demand as a truck driver - the young applicants can't show a clean CDL slip or pass a drug test. (In fact, I'll be trucking for the month of Oct).  Look at the back of most 18-wheelers on the interstate, there is a sign 'drivers wanted', call 1-800-yada.

[haapai]

Sept 24, 2015 9:28:05 GMT -5 svwashout said:

Lots of them here:
www.early-retirement.org/
although I don't know how large a slice this would be. From the posts there I get the impression that only a small minority of those who are financially independent choose to continue to work.

That's a pretty wide age band at 25 to 54, if the percentage not working is strongly skewed towards the upper end (say from age 50 to 54), then I'd guess ER is a major factor.

There's a quiet explosion in the number of folks using the disability insurance portion of social security.  It's a complicated story involving a lot of acronyms and a lot of stats and I don't have a good grasp of it.  The upshot is that a lot of folks who are retiring early are taking disability and that the programs is riddled with perverse incentives. 

A lot of people with progressive disabilities who want to work until their disability progresses to the point that they cannot work get told that working until they can't any more is a noble but financially suicidal strategy. 

It's never entirely clear whether these folks on disability are excluded from stats on workforce participation or not.  They usually don't get counted as unemployed but I'm not sure if they are excluded from labor force participation stats. 

[techguy]

Sept 24, 2015 10:54:44 GMT -5 phil5185 said:

A big part of the answer is - "because they don't have to".
At one point in our history, men HAD to work to have food & shelter. You took whatever job was available. Peer pressure kept you away from welfare, laziness, etc.

Now, with so many non-workers, it has become acceptable among peers to sit home & play video games, meet for lunch, ie, no peer pressure. And 99 weeks of UI checks. And working wives to pay the bills and put food on the table. As the link says, lots of drugs, felonies, etc. And one guy said - "the jobs don't pay enough to make it worthwhile', lol. Long ago, that wasn't a choice, if there was a job, you took it. (Altho I hated picking strawberries for a nickle a quart, not going to do that again).

Even at my age, I'm in demand as a truck driver - the young applicants can't show a clean CDL slip or pass a drug test. (In fact, I'll be trucking for the month of Oct).  Look at the back of most 18-wheelers on the interstate, there is a sign 'drivers wanted', call 1-800-yada.

And also more suckers, errr, wives, are working and bringing home more of the bacon.

I've seen plenty of households where the women just make more $$$ than the men.  Kinda feel bad for these women...

[giramomma]

My DH only works part time. Full time, he wouldn't make enough to cover daycare/afterschool care/summer care for three kids.

We figure right now, he could gross 35K full time, and care for our kids would be at least 3K/month. In order to cover private school as well, he'd need to net 4K/month. So, yeah, that 35K isn't going to cut it. We don't have enough slack in our budget to find an extra 1K/month.

Also, DH was never challenged about his LARGE employment gap. Essentially, he was out of the workforce for 5 years and he was basically handed a part time job. When he went on interviews he was told being a SAHD was "admirable" "great" "noble". You know darn well those words aren't being used to describe women's behavior when they are SAHMs.

We are hoping that we can manage with DH going part time. His parents are 70, and we're taking care of them in their last decades. They have slowed down considerably in the past five years. They no longer travel/vacation for months on end. They couldn't pick up the peanut after she was over 25 lbs, and they can't get down on the floor to play with her anymore. So, it's not a matter of if, but when.

I'm not sure we could manage my work schedule, DH working full time, taking care of his parents, plus managing 3 children.

I'm surprised the percentage of working males is so high. In Milwaukee, in particular, I think the percentage for unemployed African American men is 30-50%, depending on what studies you read. I live in a city where only 50% of African American males graduate from HS. Hard to get a job without even a HS education.

[Tiny]

Sept 23, 2015 23:35:34 GMT -5 cronewitch said:

money.cnn.com/2015/09/11/news/economy/men-work/index.html?iid=ob_quote_footer&iid=obnetwork

Seems it used to be 97% of men worked now down to 88%. Looks like some are becoming SAHP and facing the same things women with huge gaps face returning to the work force.

Pride might be some of it. When offered a low paid job when they used to earn high amounts it would be discouraging to take the job. When daycare cost more than you make it is easy to say take a few years off then be left with fewer skills and a huge gap. Woman seem more willing to accept they can only make 8-15 an hour after a decade out of the labor force. The underground workforce might be also a problem since they can make more working under the table that at a W-2 job. Obama care might also make it worse since they don't get jobs with medical as easily as we did 20-30 years ago so we needed a job with benefits.

Do you know able bodied men who won't/can't work? Why?

It's plain old Human Nature and the Cognitive Biases we are unaware of (until you start to do a bit of self examination) that's the problem....

From the article:

"It didn't make sense to give that to a babysitter," said Kessler, now 60, who lives in Bernardsville, N.J., with his wife, a business analyst."

It didn't make sense because the guy fell prey to cognitive biases (a nice way to say he's BAD at math and not very good at planning for the future):  

One of the cognitive biases is goes something like:   the way it is now - so shall it ever be.    By taking the $8 an hour job, he'd be making $8.00 an hour for the REST OF HIS LIFE.   He didn't see taking the $8.00 job as a stepping stone to better employment (either thru being able to network better, to learn a 'new company's way of doing things', or to just keep current with a JOB while continueing to look for better employment.  I'm sure there's other ways to use the low end job (in his field) to his advantage.  yeah, it sucks... but doing nothing pretty much leads to more nothing. .

A friend opted to NOT get a masters degree via night school and with some 'tuition reimbursement' via her employer because and I quote - why spend $10K out of pocket for a measly $2K raise in pay?     This was over 20 years ago... She's bad a math.  She lost out on 20K additional income over time PLUS whatever additional increase in income she'd have gotten via raises on the increased pay base.   She also pretty much crippled herself careerwise - since without a masters she can't move into administration OR take on the more "prestigious' teaching jobs (with higher pay)... not to mention the fact that she'd have a much harder time jumping to a new teacher position in a better paying area - she's got the experience but not the 'education background'.     So, yeah, NOT spending 10K for an immediate 2K raise in pay sounded good -- but was 'bad math'.

I especially liked this quote:

"I don't know what's worse -- the stress of not having a job or the stress of having a job," he said. "I have a college degree. Now it's totally worthless."

I'm like DUH?  Do ya think?   Did you not realize this atleast a couple of years after you graduated? That you're degree became more "worthless" with time?      

This is another one of those Cognitive Bias problems:   along the lines of "I paid $3500 for that Backlit, 2000 pound Big Screen TV - 20 years ago!  I should be able to sell it today for $3K!  It still works! It's quality! It's expensive!"   Just because something once HAD value doesn't mean it will continue to have value.

[midjd]

Sept 24, 2015 13:12:59 GMT -5 techguy said:

Sept 24, 2015 10:54:44 GMT -5 phil5185 said:

A big part of the answer is - "because they don't have to".
At one point in our history, men HAD to work to have food & shelter. You took whatever job was available. Peer pressure kept you away from welfare, laziness, etc.

Now, with so many non-workers, it has become acceptable among peers to sit home & play video games, meet for lunch, ie, no peer pressure. And 99 weeks of UI checks. And working wives to pay the bills and put food on the table. As the link says, lots of drugs, felonies, etc. And one guy said - "the jobs don't pay enough to make it worthwhile', lol. Long ago, that wasn't a choice, if there was a job, you took it. (Altho I hated picking strawberries for a nickle a quart, not going to do that again).

Even at my age, I'm in demand as a truck driver - the young applicants can't show a clean CDL slip or pass a drug test. (In fact, I'll be trucking for the month of Oct).  Look at the back of most 18-wheelers on the interstate, there is a sign 'drivers wanted', call 1-800-yada.

And also more suckers, errr, wives, are working and bringing home more of the bacon.

I've seen plenty of households where the women just make more $$$ than the men.  Kinda feel bad for these women...

Why? I like making money.  

[Tiny]

Sept 24, 2015 9:48:37 GMT -5 resolution said:

The article indicates that a third of the unemployed men have criminal records, which makes it a lot harder to find employment. My own employer used to hire ex-offenders and stopped about 10 years ago, now it is a disqualification from employment. We can probably thank the drug war for some of this.

I'm beginning to wonder if people's recreational drug use is catching up with them... you know the people who's use hasn't really caused many or any problems - they were young and bounced back (or could force themselves to function) in the after math.    They don't have a "record".   Kinda like the way alcohol can catch up with you if you're a weekend binge drinker.  By the time your 40... 20 years of hard drinking starts to take it's toll - health wise and maybe motivation/job performance wise as well.  

I know passing the drug test most employers impose doesn't bother the younger people - they just suck it up and not have any "fun" for 10 days or a month or whatever.  I've noticed the 40 something's find this requirement tedious and dislike the idea of not having a 'little something' for 10 days or a month or whatever....    I think they start thinking maybe it's not worth giving up their "little something" to get a job.  It's unfair.  because if/when they do get the job - they'll still be 'doing a little something' and it won't effect their job performance (well, at least they think it doesn't).

I live a dull and boring "unfun" life so I don't need to know how to 'cheat' a drug test.  

[midjd]

Also, DH was never challenged about his LARGE employment gap. Essentially, he was out of the workforce for 5 years and he was basically handed a part time job. When he went on interviews he was told being a SAHD was "admirable" "great" "noble". You know darn well those words aren't being used to describe women's behavior when they are SAHMs.

I was thinking about this yesterday. 

DH had been considering jumping ship at his employer for a while. Last week he walked into a rival dealership to see if they had any openings. They called him that night and offered him a job. He wasn't really happy with the salary, so told them he'd think about it. 

Yesterday he had another appointment to go back and discuss salary/PTO. I got caught in traffic after work, so DH wound up picking up our almost 2yo and bringing her to the meeting. They offered him an extra week's vacation and 10% more pay. 

I'm trying to envision a situation in which I would bring an unruly toddler to a job interview and have it work out that well... not to impugn DH's skills, because he is very good at his job, but really?

[Tiny]

FWIW: isn't this the Future Dream that was 'sold to America' in the 30's/40's/50's?? That someday, you'd only work a few hours a week and the rest of the time you could spend doing all sorts of wonderful and magical things while living in a comfortable home. No worries about bills or doing housework?

I mean the men(and women) who aren't working... they have more free time to pursue their interests.

Yeah, there's the lots of time/no money to do anything issue... but still isn't that the "dream" to be able to laze around all day, not a care in the world while still having a house, clean laundry, food on the table, and a vehicle?

[techguy]

Sept 24, 2015 13:20:37 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

Sept 24, 2015 13:12:59 GMT -5 techguy said:

And also more suckers, errr, wives, are working and bringing home more of the bacon.

I've seen plenty of households where the women just make more $$$ than the men.  Kinda feel bad for these women...

Wait, if a guy earns more than a woman so she takes time off while the kids are young that's fine, but when the woman earns more so the guy takes time off while the kids are young she's a sucker? Let me guess, you have no children? If you ever do you'll probably realize why parents prioritize having somebody be home a good chunk of the time for the first few years. It makes the most financial sense for that person to be the lower earning spouse regardless of gender. Doesn't make anyone a leach or a sucker, just means the couple is prioritizing family and doing so in the most financially advantageous way. We've had more women than men earning college degrees for a while. College grads earn more on average. As those people start families it makes sense that we'll see more men take time out of the work force.

There are too many women that have 'resentment' when they have to carry the financial load of the family.  They work all day and then have to come home and also handle family duties.  Sure, some women love it and they would rather work than stay home.  But this is the exception to the rule.

Nothing wrong with a women making money and being successful, but I doubt many girls grow up dreaming about marrying a SAHD.  Again, maybe some do, but these are the outliers.

[bean29]

Sept 24, 2015 14:28:08 GMT -5 techguy said:

Sept 24, 2015 13:20:37 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

Wait, if a guy earns more than a woman so she takes time off while the kids are young that's fine, but when the woman earns more so the guy takes time off while the kids are young she's a sucker? Let me guess, you have no children? If you ever do you'll probably realize why parents prioritize having somebody be home a good chunk of the time for the first few years. It makes the most financial sense for that person to be the lower earning spouse regardless of gender. Doesn't make anyone a leach or a sucker, just means the couple is prioritizing family and doing so in the most financially advantageous way. We've had more women than men earning college degrees for a while. College grads earn more on average. As those people start families it makes sense that we'll see more men take time out of the work force.

There are too many women that have 'resentment' when they have to carry the financial load of the family.  They work all day and then have to come home and also handle family duties.  Sure, some women love it and they would rather work than stay home.  But this is the exception to the rule.

Nothing wrong with a women making money and being successful, but I doubt many girls grow up dreaming about marrying a SAHD.  Again, maybe some do, but these are the outliers.

IDK, my DD who is 18 told me when she was about 14 that she was going to be a surgeon and have a SAHD to clean/cook and take care of the children.  I wasn't sure if she was serious or joking, but, I do know she will never be a surgeon and I really don't think she will ever have kids.  We have a generation of kids who have 2nd Gen career parents, and friends and family members who exhibit all kinds of accepted family models.  I think today's kids may surprise you.

[muttleynfelix]

Sept 24, 2015 13:12:59 GMT -5 techguy said:

Sept 24, 2015 10:54:44 GMT -5 phil5185 said:

A big part of the answer is - "because they don't have to".
At one point in our history, men HAD to work to have food & shelter. You took whatever job was available. Peer pressure kept you away from welfare, laziness, etc.

Now, with so many non-workers, it has become acceptable among peers to sit home & play video games, meet for lunch, ie, no peer pressure. And 99 weeks of UI checks. And working wives to pay the bills and put food on the table. As the link says, lots of drugs, felonies, etc. And one guy said - "the jobs don't pay enough to make it worthwhile', lol. Long ago, that wasn't a choice, if there was a job, you took it. (Altho I hated picking strawberries for a nickle a quart, not going to do that again).

Even at my age, I'm in demand as a truck driver - the young applicants can't show a clean CDL slip or pass a drug test. (In fact, I'll be trucking for the month of Oct).  Look at the back of most 18-wheelers on the interstate, there is a sign 'drivers wanted', call 1-800-yada.

And also more suckers, errr, wives, are working and bringing home more of the bacon.

I've seen plenty of households where the women just make more $$$ than the men.  Kinda feel bad for these women...

Don't feel bad for me. I never have to clean and my house is as clean as a house with a 2 year old and 5 year old. I never do laundry during the week and my laundry is done. My kids are fed and taken care of while I am at work. My husband does all sorts of projects around out house that add value. Oh he is also my personal mechanic. I have no problem saying my husband works harder than me by staying home. Just because you aren't man enough to handle it doesn't mean all the men that stay home are slackers.

[Tiny]

Sept 24, 2015 14:28:08 GMT -5 techguy said:

Sept 24, 2015 13:20:37 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

Wait, if a guy earns more than a woman so she takes time off while the kids are young that's fine, but when the woman earns more so the guy takes time off while the kids are young she's a sucker? Let me guess, you have no children? If you ever do you'll probably realize why parents prioritize having somebody be home a good chunk of the time for the first few years. It makes the most financial sense for that person to be the lower earning spouse regardless of gender. Doesn't make anyone a leach or a sucker, just means the couple is prioritizing family and doing so in the most financially advantageous way. We've had more women than men earning college degrees for a while. College grads earn more on average. As those people start families it makes sense that we'll see more men take time out of the work force.

There are too many women that have 'resentment' when they have to carry the financial load of the family.  They work all day and then have to come home and also handle family duties.  Sure, some women love it and they would rather work than stay home.  But this is the exception to the rule.

Nothing wrong with a women making money and being successful, but I doubt many girls grow up dreaming about marrying a SAHD.  Again, maybe some do, but these are the outliers.

I know I grew up with that separation of "women's work" and "men's work" thing being acceptable - and many of the guys my age and older buy into it (ok I've met a few guys 10 years younger than me that came from 'traditional families' and they buy into it to)...   So, if a guy buys into that... I'm not sure how he'd even consider being a SAHD - dealing with the kids, the house, the schedule of activities, and all the life maintenance stuff it takes to keep a household running (laundry, grocery, cooking, etc)  is technically 'woman's work' and he wouldn't touch any of that with a ten foot pole.   I guess he could sit at home, in his recliner, with a beer, watching sports recaps all day...  

Back in the day I use to joke about how the only way I'd have kids is if my guy would be a SAHD.  I have no problems going to work and bringing home the big bucks - "as long as dinner's on the table and the house is clean when I get home".  (sorry that's a drunken refrain my Dad use to use on what "constituted the 'good life'") 

FWIW:  I've noticed that my 20 something Nephews are much more likely to engage in house work than their "old school" fathers.   I've also noticed that my friend's young sons are also expected to do the kind of household chores that were traditionally 'woman's work' - like laundry, cooking, cleaning the bathroom, prepping stuff for the next day of work/school.

I, too, think the future generation of men (and women) will share/more evenly divide up housework and childcare.   

I dont' see anything wrong with a SAHD -   it's no longer a eupheamism for "worthless loser husband who can't hold down a job and who's too proud/too drunk/too high to engage in 'woman's work' so he does NOTHING all day and lets his wife shoulder ALL the responsibilities"  

[muttleynfelix]

Sept 24, 2015 14:28:08 GMT -5 techguy said:

Sept 24, 2015 13:20:37 GMT -5 Sum Dum Gai said:

Wait, if a guy earns more than a woman so she takes time off while the kids are young that's fine, but when the woman earns more so the guy takes time off while the kids are young she's a sucker? Let me guess, you have no children? If you ever do you'll probably realize why parents prioritize having somebody be home a good chunk of the time for the first few years. It makes the most financial sense for that person to be the lower earning spouse regardless of gender. Doesn't make anyone a leach or a sucker, just means the couple is prioritizing family and doing so in the most financially advantageous way. We've had more women than men earning college degrees for a while. College grads earn more on average. As those people start families it makes sense that we'll see more men take time out of the work force.

There are too many women that have 'resentment' when they have to carry the financial load of the family.  They work all day and then have to come home and also handle family duties.  Sure, some women love it and they would rather work than stay home.  But this is the exception to the rule.

Nothing wrong with a women making money and being successful, but I doubt many girls grow up dreaming about marrying a SAHD.  Again, maybe some do, but these are the outliers.

I didn't grow up thinking about wanting a husband to be a SAHD, buy then I didn't think much about a husband at all. Buy by my senior year of college, I was thinking a lot that I wanted to be with someone who would be the SAHP.

[Deleted]

Sept 24, 2015 13:12:59 GMT -5 techguy said:

Sept 24, 2015 10:54:44 GMT -5 phil5185 said:

And also more suckers, errr, wives, are working and bringing home more of the bacon.

I've seen plenty of households where the women just make more $$$ than the men.  Kinda feel bad for these women...

I hate these types of comments.  Women wanted to be equal so now that they are equal this should be a non-issue.  I have never seen the same comment made about a SAHM.

[Deleted]

Sept 24, 2015 14:04:39 GMT -5 midjd said:

Also, DH was never challenged about his LARGE employment gap. Essentially, he was out of the workforce for 5 years and he was basically handed a part time job. When he went on interviews he was told being a SAHD was "admirable" "great" "noble". You know darn well those words aren't being used to describe women's behavior when they are SAHMs.

I was thinking about this yesterday. 

DH had been considering jumping ship at his employer for a while. Last week he walked into a rival dealership to see if they had any openings. They called him that night and offered him a job. He wasn't really happy with the salary, so told them he'd think about it. 

Yesterday he had another appointment to go back and discuss salary/PTO. I got caught in traffic after work, so DH wound up picking up our almost 2yo and bringing her to the meeting. They offered him an extra week's vacation and 10% more pay. 

I'm trying to envision a situation in which I would bring an unruly toddler to a job interview and have it work out that well... not to impugn DH's skills, because he is very good at his job, but really?

I'm sure the manager of a car dealership liked the skill.  A salesman that can close a deal while handling a toddler!     That Kid just got him 10% more.  I'm sure with all the single parents now, car shopping with kids is probably normal.  Parents probably don't buy due to unhappy kids (just human nature), so a salesman that can entertain/distract a toddler while Mom/Dad think about the car seems like a valuable skill.

[techguy]

Sept 24, 2015 17:56:58 GMT -5 @logicnow said:

Sept 24, 2015 13:12:59 GMT -5 techguy said:

And also more suckers, errr, wives, are working and bringing home more of the bacon.

I've seen plenty of households where the women just make more $$$ than the men.  Kinda feel bad for these women...

I hate these types of comments.  Women wanted to be equal so now that they are equal this should be a non-issue.  I have never seen the same comment made about a SAHM.

To be clear, I feel bad for the women who have resentment due to their slacker spouse.

If you love making the dough, while your man enjoys the fruit, more power to you. But again, this is not the majority.

[giramomma]

Sept 24, 2015 19:12:31 GMT -5 techguy said:

Sept 24, 2015 17:56:58 GMT -5 @logicnow said:

I hate these types of comments.  Women wanted to be equal so now that they are equal this should be a non-issue.  I have never seen the same comment made about a SAHM.

To be clear, I feel bad for the women who have resentment due to their slacker spouse.

If you love making the dough, while your man enjoys the fruit, more power to you. But again, this is not the majority.

Yes, but it goes both ways.

Actually, I think men with SAHMs have to potential for being far more resentful. On babycenter forums, SAHMs proclaim their job is to take care of the kids, ONLY. They don't feel they should clean, go grocery shopping, do the laundry, or anything else beyond feeding their child(ren).  So...that only leaves the husband to do everything else to run a household AND carry the stress of being the only person bringing in income. AND come home and take over the kid rearing, immediately, because of course, mom needs a break.

I get very angry when I read these sorts of posts. It's ridiculous, IMVHO.  I'm not suggesting a SAHM clean for 5 hours while caring for 4 kids under 4. But, even with a devil child, I can still get 45 minutes of cleaning in a day if I SAH with her. AND I still get time to rest while she naps.

[jackb1117]

Sept 24, 2015 19:12:31 GMT -5 techguy said:

Sept 24, 2015 17:56:58 GMT -5 @logicnow said:

I hate these types of comments.  Women wanted to be equal so now that they are equal this should be a non-issue.  I have never seen the same comment made about a SAHM.

To be clear, I feel bad for the women who have resentment due to their slacker spouse.

If you love making the dough, while your man enjoys the fruit, more power to you. But again, this is not the majority.

As a man that has a spouse that makes more than me, I don't think there is any resentment on her end. And the fact that she currently makes more than me doesn't necessarily make me (or others like me) a 'slacker'.

We are a team- everything financial is in a common pot and we divide up household duties relatively evenly (but not along 'traditional' gender norms). My wife makes roughly the same salary as me, but much more when you factor in value of stock stock bonuses (although we generally leapfrog each other every few years). But I am not sitting home playing video games- I make a respectable six-figure salary + five figure bonus, am about to wrap up a second masters degree, do all our grocery shopping & cooking, and most of our home+yard maintenance (at least that doesn't run the risk of me getting seriously electrocuted or needing super expensive heavy machinery). She cleans up after me because I am a slob- I haven't touched a broom or done a load of laundry in years- she pays the bills and deals with gifts because she is more organized than I am.


Does my wife make more than I do? Yup. Am I (and others like me) 'slackers' because of that? Hardly.

[stillmovingforward]

Let's see............. I make WAAAAAAY more than my SDH. And my income should continue to grow and his will stay the same or decline due to health issues. I LOVE what I do and am invigorated by it daily. He enjoys his job but is tired and sore a lot. We have 4 kids. And a small house with one bathroom.  DO NOT EVEN BEGIN TO FEEL SORRY FOR ME! I made my choices with my eyes wide open and I wouldn't change them for anything.  My kids feel loved and needed.  The house is (sort of) clean and everyone is fed.  I stayed home once for a few years.  Couldn't wait to go to college and change my direction.  

I now mentor women entering the workplace from college or trade school.  Its amazing what crap we still have to put up with.  How anyone can think a woman would/should work at a job and then shoulder more than 50% of running the house is beyond me.  Well, honestly........... its not beyond me.  I spent 10 years fighting that fight and it almost cost him our marriage.  It changed when he realized that it was a bridge I was willing to cross because 'dude, if you won't help, what good are you?  'Cause I'm too damn tired for toe curling sex!  I'm here because I WANT to be, not because I HAVE to be.' 

[Phoenix84]

1. Changing gender roles. Women have the ability to support a family now, and it's becoming more accepted for men to stay home.

2. A combination of economic factors, the decline of unions, technology, and outsourcing jobs overseas, illegal immigration have all either depressed wages or outright caused the elimination of many traditionally male jobs.

3. Again, the recent economic downturn affected mostly blue collar male jobs.

4. Technology allows men to have social experiences without having a job. Put simply, being unemployed isn't as isolating as it once was because of the Internet and technology.

5. Policies like Obamacare, social security disability, food stamps, unemployment, ect make it easier to live a moseratly comfortable life.

[justme]

If I have kids I'd like to make it work where a parent could be home. I liked growing up with a sahm, and to top it off my dad would go into work early so he could be off by 230 so I kinda had a sahd too.

But I don't necessarily want to be the person to do it. I'm now venturing into the area where I make more than a fair number of guys. I don't think it'd bother me if the guy made less as long as he liked his job, lived within his means, and wasn't one of those bare minimum type personalities.

[techguy]

Sept 24, 2015 22:44:31 GMT -5 jackb1117 said:

Sept 24, 2015 19:12:31 GMT -5 techguy said:

To be clear, I feel bad for the women who have resentment due to their slacker spouse.

If you love making the dough, while your man enjoys the fruit, more power to you. But again, this is not the majority.

As a man that has a spouse that makes more than me, I don't think there is any resentment on her end. And the fact that she currently makes more than me doesn't necessarily make me (or others like me) a 'slacker'.

We are a team- everything financial is in a common pot and we divide up household duties relatively evenly (but not along 'traditional' gender norms). My wife makes roughly the same salary as me, but much more when you factor in value of stock stock bonuses (although we generally leapfrog each other every few years). But I am not sitting home playing video games- I make a respectable six-figure salary + five figure bonus, am about to wrap up a second masters degree, do all our grocery shopping & cooking, and most of our home+yard maintenance (at least that doesn't run the risk of me getting seriously electrocuted or needing super expensive heavy machinery). She cleans up after me because I am a slob- I haven't touched a broom or done a load of laundry in years- she pays the bills and deals with gifts because she is more organized than I am.


Does my wife make more than I do? Yup. Am I (and others like me) 'slackers' because of that? Hardly.

Jack, why so defensive?  You are not even in the population of slacker men since you make a "six-figure salary + five figure bonus".

Kinda funny how you feel the need to defend your position against your higher paid wife, while making a six figure+ salary yourself.  Just think how you would feel if you made a pittance, or if you were a sahd.