muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Sept 25, 2015 10:09:54 GMT -5
As a man that has a spouse that makes more than me, I don't think there is any resentment on her end. And the fact that she currently makes more than me doesn't necessarily make me (or others like me) a 'slacker'. We are a team- everything financial is in a common pot and we divide up household duties relatively evenly (but not along 'traditional' gender norms). My wife makes roughly the same salary as me, but much more when you factor in value of stock stock bonuses (although we generally leapfrog each other every few years). But I am not sitting home playing video games- I make a respectable six-figure salary + five figure bonus, am about to wrap up a second masters degree, do all our grocery shopping & cooking, and most of our home+yard maintenance (at least that doesn't run the risk of me getting seriously electrocuted or needing super expensive heavy machinery). She cleans up after me because I am a slob- I haven't touched a broom or done a load of laundry in years- she pays the bills and deals with gifts because she is more organized than I am. Does my wife make more than I do? Yup. Am I (and others like me) 'slackers' because of that? Hardly. Jack, why so defensive? You are not even in the population of slacker men since you make a "six-figure salary + five figure bonus". Kinda funny how you feel the need to defend your position against your higher paid wife, while making a six figure+ salary yourself. Just think how you would feel if you made a pittance, or if you were a sahd. Maybe you should ask yourself how your comments were construed as to why a man making 6 figures felt the need to respond to you? My husband works his ass off. He probably works harder than you. He brings value to our household. Value is not necessarily a salary. In our case, it is not. He worked full time for 30 years before he became a SAHD. You need to check your assumptions at the door before you go spouting off about something you know nothing about.
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techguy
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Post by techguy on Sept 25, 2015 10:46:45 GMT -5
Jack, why so defensive? You are not even in the population of slacker men since you make a "six-figure salary + five figure bonus". Kinda funny how you feel the need to defend your position against your higher paid wife, while making a six figure+ salary yourself. Just think how you would feel if you made a pittance, or if you were a sahd. Maybe you should ask yourself how your comments were construed as to why a man making 6 figures felt the need to respond to you? My husband works his ass off. He probably works harder than you. He brings value to our household. Value is not necessarily a salary. In our case, it is not. He worked full time for 30 years before he became a SAHD. You need to check your assumptions at the door before you go spouting off about something you know nothing about. First of all, I wasn't the one that started this thread on "Why are a lower percentage of men working?" The main answer to this question is that there are more women that make enough money to support the household, thus a lower percentage of men who don't have to work. Second of all, you are making assumptions that your husband works harder than me. But it's OK, it really doesn't matter who works harder, we all work hard to keep our family unit strong. I may have insulted some women when I said that I feel kinda sorry for them. Don't take this the wrong way. I'm not saying I feel sorry for YOU or ANY other poster, just feel sorry for those women who have resentment in supporting the family unit. You can't tell me that there aren't plenty of resentful, hard working career women out there!
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jackb1117
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Post by jackb1117 on Sept 25, 2015 11:57:35 GMT -5
As a man that has a spouse that makes more than me, I don't think there is any resentment on her end. And the fact that she currently makes more than me doesn't necessarily make me (or others like me) a 'slacker'. We are a team- everything financial is in a common pot and we divide up household duties relatively evenly (but not along 'traditional' gender norms). My wife makes roughly the same salary as me, but much more when you factor in value of stock stock bonuses (although we generally leapfrog each other every few years). But I am not sitting home playing video games- I make a respectable six-figure salary + five figure bonus, am about to wrap up a second masters degree, do all our grocery shopping & cooking, and most of our home+yard maintenance (at least that doesn't run the risk of me getting seriously electrocuted or needing super expensive heavy machinery). She cleans up after me because I am a slob- I haven't touched a broom or done a load of laundry in years- she pays the bills and deals with gifts because she is more organized than I am. Does my wife make more than I do? Yup. Am I (and others like me) 'slackers' because of that? Hardly. Jack, why so defensive? You are not even in the population of slacker men since you make a "six-figure salary + five figure bonus". Kinda funny how you feel the need to defend your position against your higher paid wife, while making a six figure+ salary yourself. Just think how you would feel if you made a pittance, or if you were a sahd. Not defensive, or 'defending my position against my higher paid wife', merely providing anecdotal evidence that your blanket statement about any male who earns less than his wife being a 'slacker' probably could have used a few more moments of thought before you started typing. And even though you may not consider me in the 'population of slackers' because I make a comparable salary (albeit lesser) to my wife, as I am sure you will hear from other here- value doesn't always come in the form of a salary. In any well-adjusted & functional partnership one would think that both parties carry their proverbial weight, irrespective of how that breaks down in terms of income versus other value-add activities.
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muttleynfelix
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Post by muttleynfelix on Sept 25, 2015 12:44:13 GMT -5
Maybe you should ask yourself how your comments were construed as to why a man making 6 figures felt the need to respond to you? My husband works his ass off. He probably works harder than you. He brings value to our household. Value is not necessarily a salary. In our case, it is not. He worked full time for 30 years before he became a SAHD. You need to check your assumptions at the door before you go spouting off about something you know nothing about. First of all, I wasn't the one that started this thread on "Why are a lower percentage of men working?" The main answer to this question is that there are more women that make enough money to support the household, thus a lower percentage of men who don't have to work. Second of all, you are making assumptions that your husband works harder than me. But it's OK, it really doesn't matter who works harder, we all work hard to keep our family unit strong. I may have insulted some women when I said that I feel kinda sorry for them. Don't take this the wrong way. I'm not saying I feel sorry for YOU or ANY other poster, just feel sorry for those women who have resentment in supporting the family unit. You can't tell me that there aren't plenty of resentful, hard working career women out there! I'm sure there are plenty of PEOPLE out there that are resentful that they don't feel their spouse is holding up their end of the bargain. It has more to do about feeling like you have more to do with control over the situation, if it was your choice than if you earn or less money than your spouse. There are plenty of men that feel resentful that their spouse isn't on board with spending, stay at home, etc. Plenty of women feel resentful that they are working or at home. If it is a choice that you and your family made for one spouse to be a SAHP, then I suspect that there is less resentment. It is when you feel you have no choice in your circumstances that resentment grows. We revisit regularly if DH staying home is working for us. We evaluate if it is working, if we are happy with the choice. By evaluating it, we give each other the choice. That we have control over the situation.
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billisonboard
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Post by billisonboard on Sept 25, 2015 12:50:38 GMT -5
Seems it used to be 97% of men worked now down to 88%. (from the OP) Seems to me that in situations in which 97% of any group is doing something, there is something interesting going on with "choice". I see a drop in that percentage as a wonderful growth in male's gaining freedom from the socialization process.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Sept 25, 2015 14:30:30 GMT -5
Maybe you should ask yourself how your comments were construed as to why a man making 6 figures felt the need to respond to you? My husband works his ass off. He probably works harder than you. He brings value to our household. Value is not necessarily a salary. In our case, it is not. He worked full time for 30 years before he became a SAHD. You need to check your assumptions at the door before you go spouting off about something you know nothing about. First of all, I wasn't the one that started this thread on "Why are a lower percentage of men working?" The main answer to this question is that there are more women that make enough money to support the household, thus a lower percentage of men who don't have to work. Second of all, you are making assumptions that your husband works harder than me. But it's OK, it really doesn't matter who works harder, we all work hard to keep our family unit strong. I may have insulted some women when I said that I feel kinda sorry for them. Don't take this the wrong way. I'm not saying I feel sorry for YOU or ANY other poster, just feel sorry for those women who have resentment in supporting the family unit. You can't tell me that there aren't plenty of resentful, hard working career women out there! Well there's also divorce which is what I did when my slacker first husband refused to get his stuff together.
I would think any woman who had a strong career and was feeling resentful would know she has that option.
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phil5185
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Post by phil5185 on Sept 25, 2015 17:25:48 GMT -5
lol - maybe the Greeks will show us the way? For them, it's not limited to just males, 'slackers' are gender-neutral. They have 'free' college until age 30. Work from 30 to 50. Pension out at 50, ie, of an 80-yr lifetime, about 1/4 is productive - and 3/4 is on the government teat. But they did give us the Pythagorean Theorem, for that we can be grateful
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Phoenix84
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Post by Phoenix84 on Sept 25, 2015 19:16:21 GMT -5
A big part of the answer is - "because they don't have to". At one point in our history, men HAD to work to have food & shelter. You took whatever job was available. Peer pressure kept you away from welfare, laziness, etc. Now, with so many non-workers, it has become acceptable among peers to sit home & play video games, meet for lunch, ie, no peer pressure. And 99 weeks of UI checks. And working wives to pay the bills and put food on the table. As the link says, lots of drugs, felonies, etc. And one guy said - "the jobs don't pay enough to make it worthwhile', lol. Long ago, that wasn't a choice, if there was a job, you took it. (Altho I hated picking strawberries for a nickle a quart, not going to do that again). Even at my age, I'm in demand as a truck driver - the young applicants can't show a clean CDL slip or pass a drug test. (In fact, I'll be trucking for the month of Oct). Look at the back of most 18-wheelers on the interstate, there is a sign 'drivers wanted', call 1-800-yada. [ Yeah, I think many people can't get or keep a job, because of things like a bad driving record, prior conviction, lack of interview or resume skills ect.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 25, 2015 19:53:19 GMT -5
Maybe you should ask yourself how your comments were construed as to why a man making 6 figures felt the need to respond to you? My husband works his ass off. He probably works harder than you. He brings value to our household. Value is not necessarily a salary. In our case, it is not. He worked full time for 30 years before he became a SAHD. You need to check your assumptions at the door before you go spouting off about something you know nothing about. First of all, I wasn't the one that started this thread on "Why are a lower percentage of men working?" The main answer to this question is that there are more women that make enough money to support the household, thus a lower percentage of men who don't have to work. Second of all, you are making assumptions that your husband works harder than me. But it's OK, it really doesn't matter who works harder, we all work hard to keep our family unit strong. I may have insulted some women when I said that I feel kinda sorry for them. Don't take this the wrong way. I'm not saying I feel sorry for YOU or ANY other poster, just feel sorry for those women who have resentment in supporting the family unit. You can't tell me that there aren't plenty of resentful, hard working career women out there! I can tell you I personally know some of those women. They thought their husbands would get jobs but the guys figured out they didn't have to. Now it would cost these women pretty pennies and they are pissed. Welcome to a man's world, huh? I'm amazed the guy behind me is still alive. If he was my husband, I'd be looking at how to get rid of him.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 25, 2015 19:55:17 GMT -5
First of all, I wasn't the one that started this thread on "Why are a lower percentage of men working?" The main answer to this question is that there are more women that make enough money to support the household, thus a lower percentage of men who don't have to work. Second of all, you are making assumptions that your husband works harder than me. But it's OK, it really doesn't matter who works harder, we all work hard to keep our family unit strong. I may have insulted some women when I said that I feel kinda sorry for them. Don't take this the wrong way. I'm not saying I feel sorry for YOU or ANY other poster, just feel sorry for those women who have resentment in supporting the family unit. You can't tell me that there aren't plenty of resentful, hard working career women out there! Well there's also divorce which is what I did when my slacker first husband refused to get his stuff together.
I would think any woman who had a strong career and was feeling resentful would know she has that option.
Yes but it'll cost you. One of my friends was actually told she'd lose custody and have to pay cs and alimony.
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giramomma
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Post by giramomma on Sept 25, 2015 20:08:35 GMT -5
Well there's also divorce which is what I did when my slacker first husband refused to get his stuff together.
I would think any woman who had a strong career and was feeling resentful would know she has that option.
Yes but it'll cost you. One of my friends was actually told she'd lose custody and have to pay cs and alimony. Yes. This would also be me if DH and I split up. Our custody would be 50/50. Child support alone would be close to 30% of my pay.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 25, 2015 20:13:24 GMT -5
Yup, it's not so fun when the shoe pinches the other foot
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Sept 25, 2015 21:44:09 GMT -5
And also more suckers, errr, wives, are working and bringing home more of the bacon. I've seen plenty of households where the women just make more $$$ than the men. Kinda feel bad for these women... I hate these types of comments. Women wanted to be equal so now that they are equal this should be a non-issue. I have never seen the same comment made about a SAHM. I have and inhave seen them said right Im this board by one poster in particular who was resentful that he had to carry the financial burden
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Sept 25, 2015 21:49:15 GMT -5
I've said this many of times on here but I will say it again...I will never support an able bodied man outside of a medical crisis or a short term job loss.
I don't need a man to cook and clean for me. I will hire out to do the stuff I can't do, don't have time to do or just don't want to do. It doesn't cost me anywhere near a full time salary to hire out.
The above comment is assuming Im ever dumb enough to get married again. I
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Sept 25, 2015 21:57:10 GMT -5
money.cnn.com/2015/09/11/news/economy/men-work/index.html?iid=ob_quote_footer&iid=obnetworkSeems it used to be 97% of men worked now down to 88%. Looks like some are becoming SAHP and facing the same things women with huge gaps face returning to the work force. Pride might be some of it. When offered a low paid job when they used to earn high amounts it would be discouraging to take the job. When daycare cost more than you make it is easy to say take a few years off then be left with fewer skills and a huge gap. Woman seem more willing to accept they can only make 8-15 an hour after a decade out of the labor force. The underground workforce might be also a problem since they can make more working under the table that at a W-2 job. Obama care might also make it worse since they don't get jobs with medical as easily as we did 20-30 years ago so we needed a job with benefits. Do you know able bodied men who won't/can't work? Why? The short answer is because they don't have to. Let's face it- there isn't a person in America, that if they do not work, will miss a meal. If we actually had poor poor people, this country would be buzzing with people working. The longer answer is that women work, they don't mind it, they don't question it, and for the most part women are very compliant and just do what they're told. This makes them ideal employees. The flip side of that is with all these "ideal employees" ready and willing to work; the workplace is increasingly a place very conducive to women, and hostile to men. In my opinion- and I can provide all sorts of things to back this up, but fair warning- I probably won't. The topic bores me- American society from school to the workplace is hostile to men. And no, I don't think there's some grand conspiracy. I think it's a function of evolution. Women in the workplace, combined with the tech revolution have made the workplace more collaborative- men, in general, would rather not collaborate (chit chat things to death). Some of it is due to regulations that force companies to think more about factors that have little to do with ideas, and their execution. Given the choice of working in a collaborative environment and worrying about racial quotas, gender neutral bathrooms, and whether or not the office is as "green" as it could be, I think I speak for most men when I say, I'd rather have my eyelashes pulled out one by one.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Sept 25, 2015 22:08:51 GMT -5
money.cnn.com/2015/09/11/news/economy/men-work/index.html?iid=ob_quote_footer&iid=obnetworkSeems it used to be 97% of men worked now down to 88%. Looks like some are becoming SAHP and facing the same things women with huge gaps face returning to the work force. Pride might be some of it. When offered a low paid job when they used to earn high amounts it would be discouraging to take the job. When daycare cost more than you make it is easy to say take a few years off then be left with fewer skills and a huge gap. Woman seem more willing to accept they can only make 8-15 an hour after a decade out of the labor force. The underground workforce might be also a problem since they can make more working under the table that at a W-2 job. Obama care might also make it worse since they don't get jobs with medical as easily as we did 20-30 years ago so we needed a job with benefits. Do you know able bodied men who won't/can't work? Why? The short answer is because they don't have to. Let's face it- there isn't a person in America, that if they do not work, will miss a meal. If we actually had poor poor people, this country would be buzzing with people working. The longer answer is that women work, they don't mind it, they don't question it, and for the most part women are very compliant and just do what they're told. This makes them ideal employees. The flip side of that is with all these "ideal employees" ready and willing to work; the workplace is increasingly a place very conducive to women, and hostile to men. In my opinion- and I can provide all sorts of things to back this up, but fair warning- I probably won't. The topic bores me- American society from school to the workplace is hostile to men. And no, I don't think there's some grand conspiracy. I think it's a function of evolution. Women in the workplace, combined with the tech revolution have made the workplace more collaborative- men, in general, would rather not collaborate (chit chat things to death). Some of it is due to regulations that force companies to think more about factors that have little to do with ideas, and their execution. Given the choice of working in a collaborative environment and worrying about racial quotas, gender neutral bathrooms, and whether or not the office is as "green" as it could be, I think I speak for most men when I say, I'd rather have my eyelashes pulled out one by one. Hmm...I must work like a man because I have no tolerance for anything you mentioned...or maybe you can't lump all women into the same category....
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Sept 25, 2015 22:10:29 GMT -5
I think it is a combination of two things.
Since a lot of women seem to think they will spontaneously combust if they don't have a guy around, and the stigma against a guy being unemployed is waning, being unemployed isn't going to keep a guy from getting laid.
The other issue is that the workplace is becoming less hostile towards women. Fewer jobs require a man's strength. Women today don't have to worry about being sexually harassed or passed over for promotions for being female like previous generations did. And the fact that technology makes it possible for women to work from home makes it a lot easier to balance work and home life.
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formerroomate99
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Post by formerroomate99 on Sept 25, 2015 22:12:26 GMT -5
I was thinking the same thing Miss T. Though I've always worked with mostly men and would kill myself if I had to take a pink collar job.
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Bonny
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Post by Bonny on Sept 25, 2015 23:59:38 GMT -5
I think it is a combination of two things. Since a lot of women seem to think they will spontaneously combust if they don't have a guy around, and the stigma against a guy being unemployed is waning, being unemployed isn't going to keep a guy from getting laid. The other issue is that the workplace is becoming less hostile towards women. Fewer jobs require a man's strength. Women today don't have to worry about being sexually harassed or passed over for promotions for being female like previous generations did. And the fact that technology makes it possible for women to work from home makes it a lot easier to balance work and home life. You might want to talk to Apple about that.
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gooddecisions
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Post by gooddecisions on Sept 26, 2015 7:23:27 GMT -5
Do you know able bodied men who won't/can't work? Why? Given the choice of working in a collaborative environment and worrying about racial quotas, gender neutral bathrooms, and whether or not the office is as "green" as it could be, I think I speak for most men when I say, I'd rather have my eyelashes pulled out one by one. I think you should have stopped at because they don't have to. I work at a pretty progressive company, and while all these things are considerations. They aren't even 1% of what anyone does. Once every few years a task force may look into improvements in those areas- as in they might meet for one hour once/week for a month and it is done. And that would be a volunteer task force, so it wouldn't go to anyone who would pull their eyebrows out. i should also add that these task forces are created to respond to employee satisfaction surveys. The employees ask for the improvements.
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geenamercile
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Post by geenamercile on Sept 26, 2015 7:35:52 GMT -5
Wait, if a guy earns more than a woman so she takes time off while the kids are young that's fine, but when the woman earns more so the guy takes time off while the kids are young she's a sucker? Let me guess, you have no children? If you ever do you'll probably realize why parents prioritize having somebody be home a good chunk of the time for the first few years. It makes the most financial sense for that person to be the lower earning spouse regardless of gender. Doesn't make anyone a leach or a sucker, just means the couple is prioritizing family and doing so in the most financially advantageous way. We've had more women than men earning college degrees for a while. College grads earn more on average. As those people start families it makes sense that we'll see more men take time out of the work force. There are too many women that have 'resentment' when they have to carry the financial load of the family. They work all day and then have to come home and also handle family duties. Sure, some women love it and they would rather work than stay home. But this is the exception to the rule. Nothing wrong with a women making money and being successful, but I doubt many girls grow up dreaming about marrying a SAHD. Again, maybe some do, but these are the outliers. I would be pretty resentful too if that was the case. Instead I work during the day and come one to a dinner almost ready, kids happy and homework done, house clean and my clothes ready for tomorrow. On the weekends we get to do pretty much what we want, see things, visit places, or just loaf around because the the household chores and projects have already been done. But then I would think a man would be pretty resentful if he had to work all day and come one and do all the family duties too.
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imanangel
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Post by imanangel on Sept 26, 2015 8:20:03 GMT -5
A big part of the answer is - "because they don't have to". At one point in our history, men HAD to work to have food & shelter. You took whatever job was available. Peer pressure kept you away from welfare, laziness, etc. Now, with so many non-workers, it has become acceptable among peers to sit home & play video games, meet for lunch, ie, no peer pressure. And 99 weeks of UI checks. And working wives to pay the bills and put food on the table. As the link says, lots of drugs, felonies, etc. And one guy said - "the jobs don't pay enough to make it worthwhile', lol. Long ago, that wasn't a choice, if there was a job, you took it. (Altho I hated picking strawberries for a nickle a quart, not going to do that again). Even at my age, I'm in demand as a truck driver - the young applicants can't show a clean CDL slip or pass a drug test. (In fact, I'll be trucking for the month of Oct). Look at the back of most 18-wheelers on the interstate, there is a sign 'drivers wanted', call 1-800-yada. And also more suckers, errr, wives, are working and bringing home more of the bacon. I've seen plenty of households where the women just make more $$$ than the men. Kinda feel bad for these women... Why do you feel bad for women that make more $$$ than the men? ETA: I read the rest. I would NOT be resentful. I would LOVE to make more money than my husband. Hell, I hate doing housework and if I made more money than he did, he could stay home full time and take care of the kids and clean the house. I work full time, but only make about 1/3 of what he makes. I would totally be ok with the paychecks being reversed.
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zibazinski
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Post by zibazinski on Sept 26, 2015 9:17:33 GMT -5
DH obviously makes more money than I do. Also, has more money than I do. Even with losing more than half. But he'd be thrilled to death if one of my damn books finally got published and made big bucks. Not because he'd like to live off me, although he makes jokes about being a kept man, but because he'd like to never ever fly commercial again and feels MY money would pay for private charters. Wtf? Seriously?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2015 9:27:29 GMT -5
DW made more than me until this year and I can't think of anyone who felt sorry for her, it was awesome (also the nature of private vs gov pay in our respective careers, I made more at entry level, her at professional and now me again at managerial)
Throughout my career I haven't seen any issues with men and women collaborating together for change in the workplace, my job now is all about getting people to collaborate on larger issues. Those that don't collaborate, don't stick around or at least don't get promoted.
Now on the issue of a lower percentage of men working, I had a day off Wednesday and love me some video game, It is unbelievable how many adult men are playing them at 1PM on a weekday. Also I grew up in a farming community and back in the day a male that wasn't driven to do anything else at least helped their father on the farm so they were technically employed, now those same males don't do anything, the family farm has been sold.
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Apple
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Post by Apple on Sept 26, 2015 17:46:28 GMT -5
I think it is a combination of two things. Since a lot of women seem to think they will spontaneously combust if they don't have a guy around, and the stigma against a guy being unemployed is waning, being unemployed isn't going to keep a guy from getting laid. The other issue is that the workplace is becoming less hostile towards women. Fewer jobs require a man's strength. Women today don't have to worry about being sexually harassed or passed over for promotions for being female like previous generations did. And the fact that technology makes it possible for women to work from home makes it a lot easier to balance work and home life. You might want to talk to Apple about that. I can agree that the sexual harassment may not be less blatant, and possibly less rampant, but it absolutely exists. If you prove yourself as more technical than the majority of the men, you are "a threat" and must be dealt with. I found it very interesting when I visited the Stasi Prison in East Berlin a few months ago. They went from physical torture to psychological torture, which proved to be just as effective, but was "less obvious", and confessions not prone to be thrown out like they would be if someone could prove the confessions were coerced through physical torture. They still tortured the inmates, they just became more creative and careful about doing so, trying to avoid anything that could leave "proof". It's the same with the sexual harassment. It's still there, it's still as effective, they've just become more sneaky about what they do. And, if you do manage to have proof (as I did), management will try to turn it against you and say that the fact you saved that proof and presented it as evidence "proves (your) vengeful spirit". Because knowing you'll lose without proof, and waiting to report the abuse until you have that proof, makes you vengeful. My sister was deliberately injured years ago by a journeyman to prove "women don't belong". She's suffered long-term issues, undergoing multiple surgeries, because of his actions. She was the one laid off, and he got to keep his job. I appreciate the generations before me who fought to even be able to work the types of jobs we do, but the fight is far from over.
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trimatty471
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Post by trimatty471 on Sept 27, 2015 15:53:46 GMT -5
money.cnn.com/2015/09/11/news/economy/men-work/index.html?iid=ob_quote_footer&iid=obnetworkSeems it used to be 97% of men worked now down to 88%. Looks like some are becoming SAHP and facing the same things women with huge gaps face returning to the work force. Pride might be some of it. When offered a low paid job when they used to earn high amounts it would be discouraging to take the job. When daycare cost more than you make it is easy to say take a few years off then be left with fewer skillsn and a huge gap. Woman seem more willing to accept they can only make 8-15 an hour after a decade out of the labor force. The underground workforce might be also a problem since they can make more working under the table that at a W-2 job. Obama care might also make it worse since they don't get jobs with medical as easily as we did 20-30 years ago so we needed a job with benefits. Do you know able bodied men who won't/can't work? Why? From my observation here in Philly, it is because there is a string of females who do not mind taking care of these guys. It could be there husbands, boyfriends, and in most cases their child. i see guys paying for there meals with an Access card. That was unheard of when I was growing up in the 80s.
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trimatty471
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Post by trimatty471 on Sept 27, 2015 16:07:33 GMT -5
"And also more suckers, errr, wives, are working and bringing home more of the bacon."
I have at least 4 girlfriends in this predicament. The reasons are:
One husband and never furthered his education because he was a child of addicts and had to raise his siblings. I also believe he never wanted to get his hands dirty.
The other was on the lazy side. Did not want to work hard or get dirty.
The others went straight to a factory after high school and never left. At 18 making $10-$12 per hour looked like a lot of money in the early 90s. Now they are in the union. Rack of all these vacations and their pension. They do not want to leave.
This bothers two of my friends.
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trimatty471
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Post by trimatty471 on Sept 27, 2015 16:14:58 GMT -5
Let's see............. I make WAAAAAAY more than my SDH. And my income should continue to grow and his will stay the same or decline due to health issues. I LOVE what I do and am invigorated by it daily. He enjoys his job but is tired and sore a lot. We have 4 kids. And a small house with one bathroom. DO NOT EVEN BEGIN TO FEEL SORRY FOR ME! I made my choices with my eyes wide open and I wouldn't change them for anything. My kids feel loved and needed. The house is (sort of) clean and everyone is fed. I stayed home once for a few years. Couldn't wait to go to college and change my direction. I now mentor women entering the workplace from college or trade school. Its amazing what crap we still have to put up with. How anyone can think a woman would/should work at a job and then shoulder more than 50% of running the house is beyond me. Well, honestly........... its not beyond me. I spent 10 years fighting that fight and it almost cost him our marriage. It changed when he realized that it was a bridge I was willing to cross because 'dude, if you won't help, what good are you? 'Cause I'm too damn tired for toe curling sex! I'm here because I WANT to be, not because I HAVE to be.' Yes indeed! I am by myself now. But that would be law in my house. You must work inside and out and if you problem with that then, there is no us.
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cronewitch
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I identify as a post-menopausal childless cat lady and I vote.
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Post by cronewitch on Sept 27, 2015 18:37:36 GMT -5
My family men have retired at around 58 due to pain from years of hard work, but my dad and brother had wives with good jobs. Dad had bad legs that swelled if he stood but mom was working at the post office. He tried to work but keep quitting jobs trying to earn 120 hours a quarter to keep insurance but mom said quit and she would cover him on her insurance. My brother had a bad shoulder but his wife was a school teacher and she had a home business doing embroidery and screen printing so he retired and helped her with her business.
I have seen some men who do no housework even when they are home and the wife working. One would put his youngest with a babysitter then take the older one skiing. He ended up divorced. I met another who took his son fishing on a pier everyday while his wife worked. He gave the kid a bobber and no bait, would cast it out and have the toddler watch the bobber, at least he watched the kid while the wife worked but would have been nice if he did chores too. My ISO would be unemployed for weeks yet never once did any housework or cooking while not looking for work. Some men make good SAHDs or House husbands and some don't, some woman don't do anything either while home all the time.
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AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP
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Post by AgeOfEnlightenmentSCP on Sept 27, 2015 23:18:38 GMT -5
Given the choice of working in a collaborative environment and worrying about racial quotas, gender neutral bathrooms, and whether or not the office is as "green" as it could be, I think I speak for most men when I say, I'd rather have my eyelashes pulled out one by one. I think you should have stopped at because they don't have to. I work at a pretty progressive company, and while all these things are considerations. They aren't even 1% of what anyone does. Once every few years a task force may look into improvements in those areas- as in they might meet for one hour once/week for a month and it is done. And that would be a volunteer task force, so it wouldn't go to anyone who would pull their eyebrows out. i should also add that these task forces are created to respond to employee satisfaction surveys. The employees ask for the improvements. God bless 'em. I call 'voluntary work' vacation. I suspect it's tad less 'voluntary' than you are letting on.
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