ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Sept 8, 2015 8:25:13 GMT -5
We used savings to cover the short fall. Luckily the second income came back just in the nick of time.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Sept 8, 2015 8:37:15 GMT -5
Not even considering my wife here but just ME... I have a hard time coming to that point. Ex: today a lady was shopping with her husband and their child. She had he coupons, her smart phone, the ad and a calculator . Every purchase was carefully calculated and items were not purchased if not on the list or not on sale. I freaking work hard damnit for my money, if I want to buy freaking Oreo cookies I am going to buy Oreo cookies wether on sale or not or on the list or not. I know sometimes you are forced into that situation (and others it is a choice); but working in a grocery store and seeing folks from different walks of life: one of the simple pleasures I do enjoy (and maybe take for granted) is buying what I want when I want it , not price comparing we want Barilla, Ragu, Tide, Charming Soft, wether on sale or not. And yes I know that mindset would need to change if we were the one facing a 40% paycut essentially ; but this is how I feel right now and I being honest about it. No one suggested you don't work hard for your money. Most folks do.
However, when you have to cut your budget to the bone, you learn tricks. It's not that you can never have Oreos again, it's that you learn the sale cycle of Oreos (do they go on sale, for example, every 6 to 8 weeks?) and you stock up on your guilty pleasure when they're on sale, & use coupons. When they are full price, you don't buy them. It's not a punishment, it's learning a new way to live.
Well said, Busy. No one is saying you have to live a life of deprivation, Carl. In addition to coupons and sale cycles, you learn the art of stockpiling. Not hoarding, stockpiling. There's a difference. And as Donna Freedman often says: you save where you can so you can spend where you want. Not every single solitary thing has to have a coupon attached. Maybe the family you witnessed had reasons for shopping so carefully: one or both parents out of work, feeding more than three of them (other kids, or grandparents), or just made a major purchase, like a house or car and money is tighter now. There's just two of us in our household, and I stockpile and coupon and use ads. We don't have to, but I do it because then it gives me extra money for things like vacation splurging, cool new workout gear, etc.
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teen persuasion
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Post by teen persuasion on Sept 8, 2015 9:13:29 GMT -5
Where does this "I deserve it" concept come from? Why do you, or anybody, deserve anything? Really, I don't get it.
It sounds a lot like when kids complain that something isn't fair. We've always pointed out to our kids that no one ever said life was fair, so don't get yourself bent out of shape expecting fair every time. Be thankful and grateful when good things happen. Try to spread that around by doing nice things for others (not mean/bad things). Pay it forward, don't just sit back expecting things because you think it's "fair" or you "deserve" it, too. Gratitude for what you have, not resentment for what you don't have.
Ok, rant over.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Sept 8, 2015 10:03:08 GMT -5
Yuh. If they both make 200K, I would hope they could figure out how the hell to live on one income. If not, sympathy at a minimum from this person. Obviously there are more options for a person who makes 200k/yr, but usually those sort of salaries require a VHCOLA, and with it comes very high cost housing, taxes, day care, etc. We make a lot of money but we'd have a hard time making it work if we went down to one salary without selling our house and moving since that is our largest expense. We could always pack up ship and move somewhere with lower costs of living, but I'm sure our salary (ies) would be cut, too. We could do it, but it would be very unpleasant. This is what most people in silicon valley did during the slump - tucked tail and ran.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Sept 8, 2015 10:05:04 GMT -5
I freaking work hard damnit for my money, if I want to buy freaking Oreo cookies I am going to buy Oreo cookies wether on sale or not or on the list or not. This is exactly why people are concerned this post is about you. The above is the #1 reason it'll be harder for you than others.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2015 10:32:58 GMT -5
I work hard for my money too, that's why I want to get the most bang for every dollar that I can. I'm careful at the grocery store because I have a teen that eats non-stop. Loss leader sales dictate a lot of our meals. That and bulk buying...just bought a 50 pound bag of rice today. That should last him a while. Exactly. I work hard for my money, so I don't want to get screwed on purchases when I use it. Put me in this group. I want to do as much as I can with the money I have so I try to get the most for my money. I love a deal and hate it when I think I paid more than I needed to for something. It's also about priorities. Redoing my bathroom means more to me than Oreos.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Sept 8, 2015 10:40:12 GMT -5
I freaking work hard damnit for my money, if I want to buy freaking Oreo cookies I am going to buy Oreo cookies wether on sale or not or on the list or not. This is exactly why people are concerned this post is about you. The above is the #1 reason it'll be harder for you than others. Once you become accustomed to your wants become needs, and those needs become entitlements, it's very hard to reign them in when you have to. So one possible plan of action could be to start NOW. Pretend you are already living on that one salary. Save the other in its entirety - no cheating. Just bank all of it. Now you're down to $xxx.xx amount per month. Same number of bills and general outgo. You'll find out just how quickly there's a difference between wants and needs. The Oreo cookie example is fine - if we're just talking about a pack of them once a week. But you start to multiply whatever it is you want to buy, even the small things, by the number of times they suit your fancy, it really adds up and eats into your budget. Again, no one is suggesting a life of bread, water and dressing in rags. But scheduling your wants so they fit into your budget, based on sales, means you can have them with some regularity.
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on Sept 8, 2015 10:40:18 GMT -5
We went down to 1 income for about 18 months and it wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be. We had the immediate savings of daycare, which would’ve been about $2K/month on the low side. I think during that year, we didn’t really do any vacations but a lot of that was because our kids were so young.
I think we could easily deal with one income now and it would make my life a lot easier, but my wife is a tenured teacher and only works about 5 minutes away. Next year we’ll have all 3 kids in gradeschool (full day) so our daycare expenses will be down to $500/month (after school care).
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shelby
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Post by shelby on Sept 8, 2015 12:51:44 GMT -5
I think there are some posters and their friends that need to get very serious about saving money, paying off debt, and going to no or much later in life children. That would be me I am finally getting back to YNAB and making big changes hope they last. Except we already have 3 kids. As far as OP I would suggest the mom work part time weekend job while husband is home. You mentioned they were thinking of in home daycare and still netting $200 a week. That could easily be made up with part time work and still be mostly a stay at home mom.
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quince
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Post by quince on Sept 8, 2015 12:56:10 GMT -5
I actually understand VHCOLA issues. I live in Silicon Valley. I still think if someone can't make it on 200K without some kind of massive health issue or 10 kids, they have ridiculous needs. You can downsize, even here, to a sub-million dollar house or apartment, and suck it up. Daycare shouldn't be a NEED for more than the short term unless the loss of spousal income is from death or disability and even then you have social security and insurance (200K income, no life insurance? Still no sympathy from me, for some reason. Huh.)
People live in or within commuting distance of VHCOLA and don't make six figures. Subway exists here, and is not staffed by the bored spouses of millionaires. You can live in a VHCOLA for less than 200K, you just don't get the neighborhood or lifestyle you want and are used to. For 200K, you still get a damned good life, better than most of the people in the area.
I don't think ANYONE having their income halved, at 50K, 100K, 200K, 400K finds the reduction "pleasant". Some people might just be pissed at the reduction in savings. Some might need a lifestyle reduction. I have a whole lot more soft feelings toward those who it takes from a semi-comfortable, modest situation to bordering on the poverty line.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Sept 8, 2015 12:59:58 GMT -5
. Daycare shouldn't be a NEED for more than the short term unless the loss of spousal income is from death or disability and even then you have social security and insurance (200K income, no life insurance? Still no sympathy from me, for some reason. Huh.) . ?? If I got divorced from my spouse, I wouldn't need daycare? How does that work? And I did mention downsizing in my post.
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quince
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Post by quince on Sept 8, 2015 13:16:44 GMT -5
. Daycare shouldn't be a NEED for more than the short term unless the loss of spousal income is from death or disability and even then you have social security and insurance (200K income, no life insurance? Still no sympathy from me, for some reason. Huh.) . ?? If I got divorced from my spouse, I wouldn't need daycare? How does that work? And I did mention downsizing in my post. Sorry. I forgot about the existence of divorce. In that case though, daycare should be split between both parents, shouldn't it? Equal incomes, equal support? I thought in your post "downsizing" was moving to a lower cost of living area (with accordingly lower income.) I don't think it's "fun" for ANYONE. I don't think that people with 400K incomes in general have half of their post-tax income uncommitted. I just think it's easier, and yes, even more pleasant, for someone to sell their multi-million dollar residence, than for someone to start having to juggle due dates and hope they can keep all their utilities on, needing to handle the paperwork for food assistance programs, and sweating if gas prices raise by $0.10.
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HoneyBBQ
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Post by HoneyBBQ on Sept 8, 2015 13:20:00 GMT -5
Oh absolutely. If you make a lot of money (even if it's spoken for) you have a lot more options. But it wouldn't just be "pfft, guess I'll have to fire the butler and the chauffeur. " at least for me, lol.
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quince
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Post by quince on Sept 8, 2015 13:42:44 GMT -5
I have significant anxiety when it comes to driving. (And social anxiety, so public transportation is not awesome for me either...) If I ever am able to have a chauffeur, and subsequently have to fire him/her?
I pray I will have the self awareness to keep my complaining to myself.
I think butler is the first to go. Then you switch the live-in maid for weekly cleaning service, get rid of the private chef and dine out or maybe take up gourmet cooking as a hobby. Got to keep the pool boy and gardener, no question.
The chauffeur is hard to lose, but we're on the verge of self-driving cars, right? And a Tesla is an acceptable brand of automobile to keep in the garage.
Maybe have to take **shudder** business class instead of first class.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2015 15:31:28 GMT -5
I am thankful for the gifts I have received from living in poverty. You need a lot less than most people think to be happy and lead a productive life...
As I earn more, I spend it very differently than I did when I had more money.
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GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl
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Post by GRG a/k/a goldenrulegirl on Sept 8, 2015 16:06:11 GMT -5
@workingshasta: any further developments on selling your property?
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Sept 8, 2015 18:12:32 GMT -5
I think there are some posters and their friends that need to get very serious about saving money, paying off debt, and going to no or much later in life children. That would be me I am finally getting back to YNAB and making big changes hope they last. Except we already have 3 kids. Don't worry, I don't think she was throwing shade at you Maybe she will do that, I don't know. Again, this was a conversation at a dinner party, and she is what? Couple of months pregnant ? I am sure they will figure it out by the time the babies come around.
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shelby
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Post by shelby on Sept 8, 2015 19:24:41 GMT -5
That would be me I am finally getting back to YNAB and making big changes hope they last. Except we already have 3 kids. Don't worry, I don't think she was throwing shade at you I know. I don't post my mess here everybody would lose their minds
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Sept 8, 2015 19:25:47 GMT -5
Don't worry, I don't think she was throwing shade at you I know. I don't post my mess here everybody would lose their minds I get you
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Sept 8, 2015 21:58:31 GMT -5
We used savings to cover the short fall. Luckily the second income came back just in the nick of time. And how would you do if it was long term? As in she becomes a full time stay at home mom?
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Sept 8, 2015 22:07:47 GMT -5
I freaking work hard damnit for my money, if I want to buy freaking Oreo cookies I am going to buy Oreo cookies wether on sale or not or on the list or not. This is exactly why people are concerned this post is about you. The above is the #1 reason it'll be harder for you than others. Because I want an Oreo cookie that is ~$3? Seriously who here lives the same way they did when they were in college? Or just starting out? Isn't your life somewhat more comfortable? Don't you have things now that you didn't have 10-15-20 years ago? Aren't you a tad bit more spoiled by the good life? I am the only one honest enough to admit it, everyone is acting as if it is pretentious to say it. Yes if my wife lost her job tomorrow we would cut everything we needed to, what other choice would we have? We would survive and make it... But if I do not have to why should I deny myself the simple pleasures in life that I enjoy: eating Oreo cookies, wiping my butt with the good toilet paper. None of you upgraded your lifestyle? Everyday expenses? I get it: if you keep your fixed expenses low you will be golden! Save and you will be able to weather bad times! But seriously everyone giving me a lecture because I feel that I deserve and yes I said I DESERVE or I EARNED the right to buy myself Oreo cookies if I want them is BULLSHIT! And yes it is possible to start a thread on YM that is not about ME or my personal Life. I just wanted ideas or hear about people experience that I have gone through it and how they managed.
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Sept 8, 2015 22:12:45 GMT -5
I don't think this issue is about money at all, but about personalities type.
I have the same amount of stuff as I had two decades ago. I traveled more when I was poorer, but that's bc I was single and it was easier. Except for a few years after we first came to US, I just don't have any urges to buy things or to spend money. Not when I was making $28K/yr, not when I was making almost 6 figures.
I could move out of our McMansion into 2 bedroom apt in NY minute and not only I won't miss it, I'll thank G-d for not having to clean it. I can survive on very little.
My husband is the opposite. He likes his "things", he likes his comfort, he can do poor out of necessity. The ONLY reason he is not spending money left and right is bc of me. I don't even think it's the "I deserve" mentality, it's just he always finds something he wants to buy. Me? Not at all!
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whoisjohngalt
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Post by whoisjohngalt on Sept 8, 2015 22:17:41 GMT -5
This is exactly why people are concerned this post is about you. The above is the #1 reason it'll be harder for you than others. Because I want an Oreo cookie that is ~$3? Seriously who here lives the same way they did when they were in college? Or just starting out? Isn't your life somewhat more comfortable? Don't you have things now that you didn't have 10-15-20 years ago? Aren't you a tad bit more spoiled by the good life? I am the only one honest enough to admit it, everyone is acting as if it is pretentious to say it. Yes if my wife lost her job tomorrow we would cut everything we needed to, what other choice would we have? We would survive and make it... But if I do not have to why should I deny myself the simple pleasures in life that I enjoy: eating Oreo cookies, wiping my butt with the good toilet paper. None of you upgraded your lifestyle? Everyday expenses? I get it: if you keep your fixed expenses low you will be golden! Save and you will be able to weather bad times! But seriously everyone giving me a lecture because I feel that I deserve and yes I said I DESERVE or I EARNED the right to buy myself Oreo cookies if I want them is BULLSHIT! And yes it is possible to start a thread on YM that is not about ME or my personal Life. I just wanted ideas or hear about people experience that I have gone through it and how they managed. We were posting at the same time... So, actually, I still have the car that I bought right after I graduated college. Yes, almost 2 decades ago. I had more clothes back then. I have more books and yarn now. Other than that - I could move to a new place in one day in one pick up truck. I really don't have "things". My lifestyle, in my opinion, actually is downgraded bc I don't travel anymore. The only reason I live in a house is bc of the husband and kids. *I* could live in an apartment for the rest of my life - much less headaches. So, I either lived very well in college or I am living really shitty now....
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Peace Of Mind
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[font color="#8f2520"]~ Drinks Well With Others ~[/font]
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Sept 8, 2015 22:42:30 GMT -5
It was a process that did not happen over night. I agree with Lena - that it's probably more about personality than anything else. Here is what I did/recommend: 1. Figure out what is really important to you (general you) at this stage of your life when you want to make this change. Unless you are wealthy you need to decide what really matters in life and stay focused on those things. 2. Have most consumer debt paid off. Having a mortgage and maybe one low car payment on a good income is fine but the rest should be paid off for this to really work and to give the family peace of mind. 3. Have a decent emergency fund set aside for worst case scenario. 4. Make sure your partner is on board 100% and agrees to the new lifestyle. (actually this should be #1 but I don't feel like moving stuff around). 5. Learn self control and grow the eff up! (That's not at anybody in particular )
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NastyWoman
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Post by NastyWoman on Sept 8, 2015 22:46:40 GMT -5
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Peace Of Mind
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Post by Peace Of Mind on Sept 8, 2015 22:49:07 GMT -5
Thank you - I'm sure trying!
**sigh**
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Sept 9, 2015 7:25:11 GMT -5
We used savings to cover the short fall. Luckily the second income came back just in the nick of time. And how would you do if it was long term? As in she becomes a full time stay at home mom? I would not be easy. We have definitely scaled our lifestyle up to match our incomes. I think daycare would have to be done. The stay at home parents would have to focus time on saving money, ie, shopping thrift store, better grocery store comparison shopping, etc.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2015 7:37:06 GMT -5
And how would you do if it was long term? As in she becomes a full time stay at home mom? I would not be easy. We have definitely scaled our lifestyle up to match our incomes. I think daycare would have to be done. The stay at home parents would have to focus time on saving money, ie, shopping thrift store, better grocery store comparison shopping, etc. Wouldn't daycare being done be a given if she stayed home?
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ArchietheDragon
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Post by ArchietheDragon on Sept 9, 2015 7:40:10 GMT -5
I would not be easy. We have definitely scaled our lifestyle up to match our incomes. I think daycare would have to be done. The stay at home parents would have to focus time on saving money, ie, shopping thrift store, better grocery store comparison shopping, etc. Wouldn't daycare being done be a given if she stayed home? No. It isi nice to give the kids some socialization time and some structure. It is also nice for the stay at home to get some free time. But we wouldn't be able to afford it I don't think.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Sept 9, 2015 7:43:32 GMT -5
I would not be easy. We have definitely scaled our lifestyle up to match our incomes. I think daycare would have to be done. The stay at home parents would have to focus time on saving money, ie, shopping thrift store, better grocery store comparison shopping, etc. Wouldn't daycare being done be a given if she stayed home? Maybe not daycare but how about Pre-K or some sort? The stay at home parents I have met send their kids to Pre-k (paid Pre-K) for the socialization part so they are not like a fish out of water once they start kindergarten / 1st grade!
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