NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Aug 20, 2015 14:46:54 GMT -5
With four little kids, I agree with you...even if she had worked, she'd have to find a way to do so and have child care. Her parents live somewhere in a double-wide in Florida, if I recall correctly, so there's likely neither space nor money from them. I don't believe there is a precedent for this in their sect, unless a person leaves altogether. Being divorced and remaining in Quiverfull is apparently not possible; divorce results in excommunication. Now THAT would be an excellent TV show. Covering real life stories of women like this who would like to leave their current situation but have no idea how or where to start. The show could show clearly what challenges they face and then walk them through the resources available. And even follow them for a while as they navigate the social services, charities, jobs, etc. available.
It would be awesome to help educate not only people who aren't in trouble to see what is and isn't available but also help some women out.
I agree. I'd include Quiverfull, LDS, extremist Jewish Orthodoxy, Amish, Scientology and anyone else leaving a cult or sect where their personal safety, freedom to think and live as they chose was in jeopardy.
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kittensaver
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We cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. - Mother Teresa
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Post by kittensaver on Aug 20, 2015 14:57:42 GMT -5
With four little kids, I agree with you...even if she had worked, she'd have to find a way to do so and have child care. Her parents live somewhere in a double-wide in Florida, if I recall correctly, so there's likely neither space nor money from them. I don't believe there is a precedent for this in their sect, unless a person leaves altogether. Being divorced and remaining in Quiverfull is apparently not possible; divorce results in excommunication. Now THAT would be an excellent TV show. Covering real life stories of women like this who would like to leave their current situation but have no idea how or where to start. The show could show clearly what challenges they face and then walk them through the resources available. And even follow them for a while as they navigate the social services, charities, jobs, etc. available.
It would be awesome to help educate not only people who aren't in trouble to see what is and isn't available but also help some women out.
It would be interesting indeed - and I wonder how long it would be before the show runs into legal trouble. One of the ways that these cults prevent women from striking out on their own is to threaten to keep their children - or take their children away from them. No joke. Katie Holmes is famous, has family support and has money, and look at all the subterfuge she had to plan and employ to break away with her child from Tom Cruise and Scientology. A poor, uneducated and isolated woman doesn't stand a chance.
And even if such a woman managed to break away, the cult/the father can go to court and insist on joint custody - or claim kidnapping (thus the legal troubles; the father or cult can claim the show is participating in the kidnapping of their children). Even if under some infinitesimally small chance everyone managed to keep it all civil, the woman would need to continue to live nearby the cult so she could have half-time access to her children. So she really hasn't broken away - she's living on her own but being shunned by everyone she's ever known. Good luck finding a job in a small community where everything including the businesses are controlled by members of the cult. And all the while, the cult will be poisoning her children's minds with how evil she is for defying God and rejecting them in seeking her own life.
A woman who was raised with a decent sense of self-worth and some life skills would find this tough. A woman with nothing would find it impossible - even with "TV show support." Those shows are notorious for dropping you like a hot potato once the cameras stop rolling .
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2015 15:03:25 GMT -5
Your post does make me wonder what is really next, though. Before this, he did have supporters. But now, I don't see even the most forgiving of his flock flocking to his side and helping him pay his bills. Not that there isn't some family money still in the Duggar coffers. They may have lost their TLC show, but they are not without means, thanks to real estate investments and pretty frugal living for years. But he still has a wife and four very young children. What happens to them? [[[ If it were me, I'd divorce his lying, cheating ass. But she probably won't because she doesn't work (and never has?), and may not have the smarts or the means to make her own way in the world. And she will probably be coerced or pressured by the fundies in her life to "forgive" him. Blarg ]]] Shit, all she'd have to do is open a Go Fund Me account and the money would start rolling in to help her set up a nice little place on the other side of the country with her kids.
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kittensaver
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We cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. - Mother Teresa
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Post by kittensaver on Aug 20, 2015 15:20:40 GMT -5
[[[ If it were me, I'd divorce his lying, cheating ass. But she probably won't because she doesn't work (and never has?), and may not have the smarts or the means to make her own way in the world. And she will probably be coerced or pressured by the fundies in her life to "forgive" him. Blarg ]]] Shit, all she'd have to do is open a Go Fund Me account and the money would start rolling in to help her set up a nice little place on the other side of the country with her kids. Until he claims a portion of it in the divorce . . . .
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Aug 20, 2015 15:27:30 GMT -5
[[[ If it were me, I'd divorce his lying, cheating ass. But she probably won't because she doesn't work (and never has?), and may not have the smarts or the means to make her own way in the world. And she will probably be coerced or pressured by the fundies in her life to "forgive" him. Blarg ]]] Shit, all she'd have to do is open a Go Fund Me account and the money would start rolling in to help her set up a nice little place on the other side of the country with her kids. That's the modern way to do it, but as Kittensaver mentioned, she would be leaving the only support system she knows. I'm not suggesting it's a good system, but it's all she knows. And even with what he's done, a court would not likely deny Josh his parental rights. He may suck as a husband, but unless he's a proven danger to his kids, no court will remove his parental rights. And she would be excommunicated and shunned - no one she knows would be able to speak to her. In a situation that's already shocking and confusing, moving just adds isolation and fear of the unknown into the mix. So.....how about if she stays and Josh moves far away?
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kittensaver
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We cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. - Mother Teresa
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Post by kittensaver on Aug 20, 2015 15:32:40 GMT -5
Shit, all she'd have to do is open a Go Fund Me account and the money would start rolling in to help her set up a nice little place on the other side of the country with her kids. That's the modern way to do it, but as Kittensaver mentioned, she would be leaving the only support system she knows. I'm not suggesting it's a good system, but it's all she knows. And even with what he's done, a court would not likely deny Josh his parental rights. He may suck as a husband, but unless he's a proven danger to his kids, no court will remove his parental rights. And she would be excommunicated and shunned - no one she knows would be able to speak to her. In a situation that's already shocking and confusing, moving just adds isolation and fear of the unknown into the mix. So.....how about if she stays and Josh moves far away? Interesting, but I highly doubt he would do it.
I also find it interesting that if she stays, he gets "forgiven." But if she leaves, she's the evil one who gets shunned. They (his family/parents) may not "love" him and what he's done, but they will find ways to "forgive" him - to save face, and to find a way for him to stay put. But if she up and divorces as the legitimately aggrieved spouse in this case, she's the one who loses - twice. It sucks how cults manipulate women in the name of God
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2015 15:50:36 GMT -5
Shit, all she'd have to do is open a Go Fund Me account and the money would start rolling in to help her set up a nice little place on the other side of the country with her kids. That's the modern way to do it, but as Kittensaver mentioned, she would be leaving the only support system she knows. I'm not suggesting it's a good system, but it's all she knows. And even with what he's done, a court would not likely deny Josh his parental rights. He may suck as a husband, but unless he's a proven danger to his kids, no court will remove his parental rights. And she would be excommunicated and shunned - no one she knows would be able to speak to her. In a situation that's already shocking and confusing, moving just adds isolation and fear of the unknown into the mix. So.....how about if she stays and Josh moves far away? He doesn't have to have his parental rights terminated. He can fly over and see them whenever he wants.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2015 15:53:37 GMT -5
And 20 years from now one of his daughters comes forward about being abused as a child.
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Aug 20, 2015 15:56:20 GMT -5
And 20 years from now one of his daughters comes forward about being abused as a child.
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NancysSummerSip
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Post by NancysSummerSip on Aug 20, 2015 15:57:46 GMT -5
That's the modern way to do it, but as Kittensaver mentioned, she would be leaving the only support system she knows. I'm not suggesting it's a good system, but it's all she knows. And even with what he's done, a court would not likely deny Josh his parental rights. He may suck as a husband, but unless he's a proven danger to his kids, no court will remove his parental rights. And she would be excommunicated and shunned - no one she knows would be able to speak to her. In a situation that's already shocking and confusing, moving just adds isolation and fear of the unknown into the mix. So.....how about if she stays and Josh moves far away? He doesn't have to have his parental rights terminated. He can fly over and see them whenever he wants. That's true. One of the younger boys, Josiah, I think, is training to be a pilot.
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swamp
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THEY’RE EATING THE DOGS!!!!!!!
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Post by swamp on Aug 20, 2015 16:14:47 GMT -5
With four little kids, I agree with you...even if she had worked, she'd have to find a way to do so and have child care. Her parents live somewhere in a double-wide in Florida, if I recall correctly, so there's likely neither space nor money from them. I don't believe there is a precedent for this in their sect, unless a person leaves altogether. Being divorced and remaining in Quiverfull is apparently not possible; divorce results in excommunication. Now THAT would be an excellent TV show. Covering real life stories of women like this who would like to leave their current situation but have no idea how or where to start. The show could show clearly what challenges they face and then walk them through the resources available. And even follow them for a while as they navigate the social services, charities, jobs, etc. available.
It would be awesome to help educate not only people who aren't in trouble to see what is and isn't available but also help some women out.
I've dealt with the kids of an Amish family. Same idea. It's not pretty. Mom is basically relegated to a life of welfare or menial labor. She can cook, sew, garden, and do childcare like nobody's business, but none of which pay very well. She can probably break horses, shear sheep, milk cows, and field dress a deer too, but those aren't really career options.
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Aug 20, 2015 17:09:40 GMT -5
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 20, 2015 17:14:50 GMT -5
Sadly, I think that in a week or two, poor Mrs. Josh Duggar will be trotted out to talk of his repentances and her forgivnesses. Well, forgiveness is a big part of Christianity. You know....just like how God forgave Eve.
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kittensaver
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We cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. - Mother Teresa
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Post by kittensaver on Aug 20, 2015 17:18:07 GMT -5
Yeah - let's blame the victim! Problem solved!
The source says that from their knowledge of Josh and Anna and the Duggar family, "no way is she leaving him" – adding that it would not come as a surprise if "on some level" Anna tries to "absorb some of the blame."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2015 17:20:44 GMT -5
Maybe having another kid will help their marriage? I mean they are still 8 short of a TV show. Plenty of stuff I'd like to laugh at, I mean comment on but it would throw this into the abyss of the religion forum.
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TheHaitian
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Post by TheHaitian on Aug 20, 2015 17:22:23 GMT -5
Yeah - let's blame the victim! Problem solved!
The source says that from their knowledge of Josh and Anna and the Duggar family, "no way is she leaving him" – adding that it would not come as a surprise if "on some level" Anna tries to "absorb some of the blame."
Off course it is, did you see that list? By my second girlfriend I had that covered and after 7 years of marriage what he described is basically a night we are both not in the mood and just doing it because we are trying to conceive. Why would you cheat on your wife for vanilla sex? Probably because at home you are getting less than vanilla sex: lights outs, 1-2 pumps and done!
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Aug 20, 2015 17:22:42 GMT -5
Am I the only one who is reminded of the Pillsbury Dough Boy when I see pictures of Josh Duggar?
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Post by The Walk of the Penguin Mich on Aug 20, 2015 17:26:49 GMT -5
Why would you cheat on your wife for vanilla sex? Probably because at home you are getting less than vanilla sex: lights outs, 1-2 pumps and done!
It takes 2 to tangle. Who wants to lie there while he only gets off himself?
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kittensaver
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We cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. - Mother Teresa
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Post by kittensaver on Aug 20, 2015 17:31:01 GMT -5
Why would you cheat on your wife for vanilla sex? Probably because at home you are getting less than vanilla sex: lights outs, 1-2 pumps and done!It takes 2 to tangle. Who wants to lie there while he only gets off himself? No one - or at least no woman who knows her way around her own anatomy. But cult women are trained to be subjugated to their husbands - they are not allowed to have any needs or feelings . One is supposed to stare at the ceiling and think of the souls one is creating and saving for heaven/eternity.
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kittensaver
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We cannot do great things. We can only do small things with great love. - Mother Teresa
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Post by kittensaver on Aug 20, 2015 17:35:05 GMT -5
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milee
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Post by milee on Aug 20, 2015 17:41:41 GMT -5
Now THAT would be an excellent TV show. Covering real life stories of women like this who would like to leave their current situation but have no idea how or where to start. The show could show clearly what challenges they face and then walk them through the resources available. And even follow them for a while as they navigate the social services, charities, jobs, etc. available.
It would be awesome to help educate not only people who aren't in trouble to see what is and isn't available but also help some women out.
I've dealt with the kids of an Amish family. Same idea. It's not pretty. Mom is basically relegated to a life of welfare or menial labor. She can cook, sew, garden, and do childcare like nobody's business, but none of which pay very well. She can probably break horses, shear sheep, milk cows, and field dress a deer too, but those aren't really career options. Instead of the word "Amish", you can substitute the name of pretty much any fundamentalist religion - Christian, Jewish, Islam - and the description is the same. Why do so many of the fundamentalist religions require the utter subjugation of women? And in this day and age, why is this not a hot topic similar to how Apartheid was a few decades ago?
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TheOtherMe
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Post by TheOtherMe on Aug 20, 2015 17:43:13 GMT -5
And 20 years from now one of his daughters comes forward about being abused as a child. I've never watched the show, but this is one sick man and I feel sorry for Anna. I agree somehow she will feel that she is to blame.
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Plain Old Petunia
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bloom where you are planted
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Post by Plain Old Petunia on Aug 20, 2015 18:58:17 GMT -5
No, it is not surprising. She would have to reject the teachings of her cult as well, and that will not be tolerated in her community. She would have to leave not only Josh but turn her back on her religion too. A religion that has been drilled into her since she was an infant. Submission to parental authority begins at 6 months of age with blanket training. Few have the inner strength to reject life-long conditioning.
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musicjenny
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Post by musicjenny on Aug 20, 2015 21:36:19 GMT -5
I've been reading on freejinger on and off all day. His statement got edited a few times and they're got screenshots. I think he had Satan, porn addiction, and a few other things in it at first and it got changed to the one that's up now. So many people were going to the Duggar blog to look that I think it got overloaded earlier.
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Sam_2.0
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Post by Sam_2.0 on Aug 20, 2015 21:45:31 GMT -5
I've been reading on freejinger on and off all day. His statement got edited a few times and they're got screenshots. I think he had Satan, porn addiction, and a few other things in it at first and it got changed to the one that's up now. So many people were going to the Duggar blog to look that I think it got overloaded earlier. Meaning his lawyer/publicist edited the hell out of it. They have to be pulling their hair out right about now, of they haven't just dropped him as a client completely.
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musicjenny
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Post by musicjenny on Aug 20, 2015 21:48:50 GMT -5
Why the hell would they put it up without having PR look at it first? Ah, that's right. It's Smuggar. Confession: I have a slight fundie obsession.
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weltschmerz
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Post by weltschmerz on Aug 20, 2015 22:08:07 GMT -5
I've been reading on freejinger on and off all day. His statement got edited a few times and they're got screenshots. I think he had Satan, porn addiction, and a few other things in it at first and it got changed to the one that's up now. So many people were going to the Duggar blog to look that I think it got overloaded earlier. Satan or Satin?
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musicjenny
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Post by musicjenny on Aug 21, 2015 7:33:48 GMT -5
I think the quote was "trapped inside Satan's fortress" or something like that...
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Aug 21, 2015 7:39:50 GMT -5
It's amazing what a giddy field day you are all having over a barely no name B list celeb. Butwhen the Potus gets his schlong examined in the Oral Orfice by an intern well that is no big deal cuz eveveryone lies about sex. And where was the outrage over his marital vows? Uh huh.
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Cookies Galore
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Post by Cookies Galore on Aug 21, 2015 7:47:55 GMT -5
It's amazing what a giddy field day you are all having over a barely no name B list celeb. Butwhen the Potus gets his schlong examined in the Oral Orfice by an intern well that is no big deal cuz eveveryone lies about sex. And where was the outrage over his marital vows? Uh huh. No outrage if you don't act holier than thou and make "family values" or "gays are icky" your meal ticket. If, for example, it came out that John McCain was a serial cheater, I'd be pretty meh about it because the sanctity of marriage isn't what he's known for espousing. Rick Santorum getting busted? Total hypocrisy field day.
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