Tell Your Co-Workers How Much You Make!

[Shooby]

If you want to make sure you’re being paid fairly, go ahead and talk to your co-workers about how much you make. Seriously. That’s what happened at Google, where some workers revealed their salaries in a shared spreadsheet started by engineer Erica Baker, who told her story Friday on Twitter.



Now an engineer at chat service Slack, Baker said 5 percent of Google workers, or about 2,800 people, ultimately shared their salary information on the spreadsheet. She didn’t go into too much detail about what they found, but apparently some people felt they weren’t being paid as much as they deserved.



“People asked for and got equitable pay,” she tweeted, “based on the data in the sheet.” (Read the whole tweet-storm at the end of this story.)






Before I left, about 5% of former co. had shared their salary on that sheet. People asked for & got equitable pay based on data in the sheet
— EricaJoy (@ericajoy) July 17, 2015


Staying mum about your salary is one of the great unwritten rules of office life. The conventional wisdom is that talking about your pay will lead to jealousy, conflict and problems with your colleagues. But there actually is no rule against discussing pay. The National Labor Relations Act, passed during the Depression, expressly protects most workers who disclose their salaries.



The "don’t ask, don’t tell" rule is mostly a myth, perpetrated by generations of business school grads who don’t want employees gabbing about salary for a very simple economic reason: They can get away with paying less if salary data is kept secret. Put simply, your boss doesn’t want you talking, because it could lead to a bunch of people wanting more money.



Indeed, talking about pay with your colleagues is the simplest way to figure out if you’re getting a fair deal or if there’s widespread gender, racial or age discrimination going on in your workplace.



“People think of talking about salary as kind of taboo, but it’s a good thing,” said Donna Ballman, an employment lawyer in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. “How else are you gonna find out if something illegal is going on or if you’re treated fairly?”



But what is fair? Deciding someone’s salary isn’t like pricing a gallon of milk. Fair pay doesn’t mean paying everyone exactly the same amount.



In fact, Google has been open about the fact that it pays differently for the same jobs. The company’s senior vice president of people operations, Laszlo Bock, actually devotes an entire chapter -- titled “Pay Unfairly” -- to that point in his recent book Work Rules. The best workers contribute exponentially more to the bottom line than the average worker, he writes.


www.msn.com/en-us/money/careersandeducation/tell-your-co-workers-how-much-you-make/ar-AAdnJW1

[Deleted]

that is one of the things I like about the union.  People are paid the same.  I know many here are going to say that will lead to people who do not work as hard getting the same pay, but pay is not really based on how hard you work.  It is based on how good you are at negotiating pay.

[zibazinski]

I remember a co-worker getting into trouble because she divulged her pay only to find out the same women that got hired along with her got more because they were married and she was single. She went and complained to human resources and she got fired.

[Deleted]

I am on a do not rehire list at a company I used to work at because a guy hired after me was making $2 an hour more then me.  I wanted the same, they wouldn't give it and I quit in a pique.

[Shooby]

You like unions because every gets paid the same? What is to like about that?

[TheHaitian]

All my department managers can find out and I am sure already did how much I make... They all use the same payroll system to write their schedules.

So between the department managers, their assistants and me... No ones pay is a secret.

[Deleted]

Aug 2, 2015 16:45:23 GMT -5 Shooby said:

You like unions because every gets paid the same? What is to like about that?

we are paid well.  I get to call a local anywhere in the country and if they need help, I can get hired at the local rate.  I am not good at negotiating pay.  I like that I do not have to.

Everyone doesn't always get paid the same though.  There is scale.  Some people can negotiate more then that or per diems etc.  But generally the pay is the same.

[TheHaitian]

Aug 2, 2015 16:45:23 GMT -5 Shooby said:

You like unions because every gets paid the same? What is to like about that?

No disgruntle employees

[gooddecisions]

I was discussing this with some co-workers, who are all managers recently. I recall being told the same myth when I was hired and it may have even been a written policy, it's hard to say for sure because it was back in 2001. As I talked about this article, all the managers were surprised and then when I told them it absolutely is protected by the national fair labor act, they were even more shocked. I told them that I suspect as more millennials enter the workplace, the more transparency they'll demand. They went on about how discretion is necessary because of jealousy, conflict, yada yada. And, in my head, I thought, I look forward to when all this old-school thinking is gone.

It really is all about unfair pay practices. I can recall when I was offered a new job at the same company and was asked my current salary. I said 40K and the hiring manager said I was "at the top of the pay scale". I took the job at $40K and a month later, couldn't help but notice the pay stub setting on top of the fax machine from a male co-worker in the exact same position= $55K/year. Nothing I could say about it because our culture was to keep our mouths shut and if I said how I knew, I probably would have broken some dumb rule and been fired.

[Shooby]

Yes, but skilled people can negotiate more. That is the problem with unions. My son is going to be an Electrician. We discussed going the Union route or not. Yeah, it is kind of a guaranteed job. And, yes, the pay is good on one hand. On the other hand, maybe he wants to do more. Maybe he wants to start his own business and company. He could make more. And, he could also make less. But, I think I would rather determine my own destiny and so does he.

[Deleted]

I worked at a non-union place once and went into the bosses office where the pay checks were.  One of my co-workers had someone's pay envelope held up to the light so he could read the pay.

[Shooby]

Aug 2, 2015 16:51:25 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

Aug 2, 2015 16:45:23 GMT -5 Shooby said:

You like unions because every gets paid the same? What is to like about that?

No disgruntle employees

Totally untrue. Those who work the hardest then tend to get the most disgruntled seeing the Slackers sit on their arses making the same pay.

[Deleted]

Aug 2, 2015 16:53:01 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Yes, but skilled people can negotiate more. That is the problem with unions. My son is going to be an Electrician. We discussed going the Union route or not. Yeah, it is kind of a guaranteed job. And, yes, the pay is good on one hand. On the other hand, maybe he wants to do more. Maybe he wants to start his own business and company. He could make more. And, he could also make less. But, I think I would rather determine my own destiny and so does he.

Union electricians make more money then non-union electricians.  If he wants to travel and work in different parts of the country, unions facilitate that better.  He will, almost certainly, get a better education in electrical work as a union apprentice then a non-union apprentice.  If he wants to start his own business, union workers can do that.

Good luck to him however he chooses.

[Deleted]

Aug 2, 2015 16:54:32 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Aug 2, 2015 16:51:25 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

No disgruntle employees

Totally untrue. Those who work the hardest then tend to get the most disgruntled seeing the Slackers sit on their arses making the same pay.

You are always going to have people who slack.  My experience is that union workers know they are paid well and want to earn that pay.  They work harder in general then non -union workers and have higher professional standards.  That is my experience for what it is worth.

[Shooby]

Yes. Good points. There are pros and cons to everything. I am not against the concept of Unions or collective bargaining. I do think that organizing in a group to negotiate can be a good thing. However, the problem is that they become too political and they lose sight of what the Union is for and the Union fat cats seem to get fatter and fatter. But, I do think there should be a place to bargain as a group.

[Shooby]

True. There are slackers everywhere. Slackers gonna slack, slack, slack, slack...

[joemilitary]

In the Army we all pretty much know how much we each make

Also government GS workers pretty much know (some difference in "steps" maybe, but have a pretty good idea)

[lisaa]

Aug 2, 2015 16:53:01 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Yes, but skilled people can negotiate more.

Yes, people who are skilled at negotiation. Unfortunately, that is not the same set of people who are skilled at their job.

[weltschmerz]

We all get paid the same, according to seniority level. I don't have to ask how much others make.

Oh, and paying married people more? That's ridiculous.

[emma1420]

I work for small non-profit, with less than 50 employees.  The only people who know staff salaries are our CEO, operations manager, and accounting manager.  My boss doesn't even know how much I make.  As we are a non-profit, anyone who makes more than 100k is on our 990 and is public record (providing they are all paid by our organization and their salary isn't split with our foundation).

i would love it if our salary information was more transparent.  I don't even want to know specifics, but salary ranges for each position would help.  However, they won't post salary ranges for positions because I'm fairly sure that there are a few people who were hired in at relatively high salaries given the work they do (for example, we just hired a new coordinator, who it wouldn't shock me to find out made about the same as me, despite the fact that position is suppose to be two to three grades lower than mine).  I also think it's very difficult to negotiate your salary for a new position if you don't know what the salary range is before hand.  

[Miss Tequila]

Aug 2, 2015 16:51:25 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

Aug 2, 2015 16:45:23 GMT -5 Shooby said:

You like unions because every gets paid the same? What is to like about that?

No disgruntle employees

Below average and average employees won't be disgruntled. The super stars who produce a lot more will be disgruntled. I would hate being paid what the scmuck next to me was getting paid

[TheHaitian]

Aug 2, 2015 17:31:22 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Aug 2, 2015 16:51:25 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

No disgruntle employees

Below average and average employees won't be disgruntled. The super stars who produce a lot more will be disgruntled. I would hate being paid what the scmuck next to me was getting paid

I was being sarcastic

[Deleted]

Not only am I in a union, my base salary information is also available to the general public if they know where to look and what to look for. My coworkers nitpick about everything, but base salary is one thing they can't nitpick about. All of the union jobs pay a certain base salary for a certain number of years' service. Our contract allows for "merit" increases, but if anyone at my location has ever gotten one, it's one of the best kept secrets in history. It's not a myth, because it's written in black and white, but most employees don't read the whole contract and have never even heard of a merit increase.

[Miss Tequila]

Aug 2, 2015 17:03:24 GMT -5 @hickle said:

Aug 2, 2015 16:54:32 GMT -5 Shooby said:

Totally untrue. Those who work the hardest then tend to get the most disgruntled seeing the Slackers sit on their arses making the same pay.

You are always going to have people who slack.  My experience is that union workers know they are paid well and want to earn that pay.  They work harder in general then non -union workers and have higher professional standards.  That is my experience for what it is worth.

We are a union shop and I can assure you that your experience (Union workers working harder than non Union) is not the same as mine. I've never seen such a group of whiney men!

[Miss Tequila]

Aug 2, 2015 17:33:16 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

Aug 2, 2015 17:31:22 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Below average and average employees won't be disgruntled. The super stars who produce a lot more will be disgruntled. I would hate being paid what the scmuck next to me was getting paid

I was being sarcastic

Lol...I completely missed it

[emma1420]

Aug 2, 2015 17:33:56 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Aug 2, 2015 17:03:24 GMT -5 @hickle said:

You are always going to have people who slack.  My experience is that union workers know they are paid well and want to earn that pay.  They work harder in general then non -union workers and have higher professional standards.  That is my experience for what it is worth.

We are a union shop and I can assure you that your experience (Union workers working harder than non Union) is not the same as mine. I've never seen such a group of whiney men!

It hasn't been mine experience either.  When we go to a city that requires us to use union labor more often than not, we get a bunch of people who drag their heels and do as little as humanly possible.  I know there are Union employees who are great, but my experience they are the minority.  

[Deleted]

Aug 2, 2015 17:31:22 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Aug 2, 2015 16:51:25 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

No disgruntle employees

Below average and average employees won't be disgruntled. The super stars who produce a lot more will be disgruntled. I would hate being paid what the scmuck next to me was getting paid

When my coworkers and I get disgruntled about the slackers, we fuss about them slacking, period. I can't recall anyone expressing the feeling that they should make more money than the slackers, just that the slackers should do some darn work. We don't get hung up on the money part or who should make what kind of money, just don't make my job harder. I guess it's a different culture.

[emma1420]

Aug 2, 2015 17:31:22 GMT -5 Miss Tequila said:

Aug 2, 2015 16:51:25 GMT -5 TheHaitian said:

No disgruntle employees

Below average and average employees won't be disgruntled. The super stars who produce a lot more will be disgruntled. I would hate being paid what the scmuck next to me was getting paid

But, I think that is true regardless of union status.   If I found out some of the slackers where I work made around the same as me I'd be pissed.  

[Deleted]

Transparency is coming whether employers want it or not. Here's a story by GlassDoor.com, where you can post reviews of employers and also post your salary.

www.glassdoor.com/blog/tech-salaries-glassdoor-diversity-hiring-survey/

This covered women vs. men in some of the big tech companies.  It's hard to conclude much since (sadly) many positions include few women and some differences can be explained by time in position, but there are some interesting comparisons.

A couple of recruiters in my field (actuarial) conduct salary surveys- not by sex, but at least you knew where you stood compared to others with similar experience and exams passed.  I'm sure recruiters in other fields do as well.

It's a step in the right direction.  IMO, women tend to get less because (generally) they don't negotiate as often and they don't move as often.  Sadly, companies want to pay you as little as they can but still keep you.  I'm against pay parity laws.  There are so many intangibles such as who's got "boardroom presence", who can close a deal with a potential client, who's willing to travel, who's always up to learn something new, etc.  No law is going to be able to deal with differences due to these very real factors.

[Deleted]

The union I am in can and do get rid of workers who slack.  There is a guy I know from the Seattle local who cannot get a job there because the business owners know him.  He is here and unemployed now.  I worked with him at another local and he was fired for violating a safety thing.  He can get jobs still, but can't really keep one.