emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Aug 2, 2015 17:56:34 GMT -5
Transparency is coming whether employers want it or not. Here's a story by GlassDoor.com, where you can post reviews of employers and also post your salary.
www.glassdoor.com/blog/tech-salaries-glassdoor-diversity-hiring-survey/
This covered women vs. men in some of the big tech companies. It's hard to conclude much since (sadly) many positions include few women and some differences can be explained by time in position, but there are some interesting comparisons.
A couple of recruiters in my field (actuarial) conduct salary surveys- not by sex, but at least you knew where you stood compared to others with similar experience and exams passed. I'm sure recruiters in other fields do as well.
It's a step in the right direction. IMO, women tend to get less because (generally) they don't negotiate as often and they don't move as often. Sadly, companies want to pay you as little as they can but still keep you. I'm against pay parity laws. There are so many intangibles such as who's got "boardroom presence", who can close a deal with a potential client, who's willing to travel, who's always up to learn something new, etc. No law is going to be able to deal with differences due to these very real factors. It's not just that negotiate less frequently, but when they try they are often shut down by an employer. its no wonder many give up. I've walked away from one position because they weren't willing to negotiate. That employer probably didn't want me badly enough, but I also think in some industries they will offer a position to the person they think they can low ball the most, and if they want more than they move onto the next candidate.
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haapai
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Post by haapai on Aug 2, 2015 17:58:13 GMT -5
Oh, and paying married people more? That's ridiculous. Not married "people", married men. Married women are a different story. It's ridiculous and it still goes on somewhat. I've seen a lot of young men get promoted to management within a month of knocking up their girlfriends. I've never seen a woman promoted because she was pregnant. Getting married doesn't seem to get anyone anything, nor does TTC or announcing that you and your spouse are expecting. Not being married and not being the pregnant one seems to be key to this method of getting promoted. In other words, we seem to promote the guys that aren't all that good at planning ahead or looking out for others.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 2, 2015 17:59:08 GMT -5
Below average and average employees won't be disgruntled. The super stars who produce a lot more will be disgruntled. I would hate being paid what the scmuck next to me was getting paid But, I think that is true regardless of union status. If I found out some of the slackers where I work made around the same as me I'd be pissed. True. But most companies take performance into account.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 2, 2015 18:00:50 GMT -5
Below average and average employees won't be disgruntled. The super stars who produce a lot more will be disgruntled. I would hate being paid what the scmuck next to me was getting paid When my coworkers and I get disgruntled about the slackers, we fuss about them slacking, period. I can't recall anyone expressing the feeling that they should make more money than the slackers, just that the slackers should do some darn work. We don't get hung up on the money part or who should make what kind of money, just don't make my job harder. I guess it's a different culture. I chose my career for the money. I am all about what I earn so I would be livid if a slacker made the same money
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2015 18:04:29 GMT -5
When my coworkers and I get disgruntled about the slackers, we fuss about them slacking, period. I can't recall anyone expressing the feeling that they should make more money than the slackers, just that the slackers should do some darn work. We don't get hung up on the money part or who should make what kind of money, just don't make my job harder. I guess it's a different culture. I chose my career for the money. I am all about what I earn so I would be livid if a slacker made the same money It sounds like you chose your career in part based on what others make or do not make.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Aug 2, 2015 18:04:48 GMT -5
When my coworkers and I get disgruntled about the slackers, we fuss about them slacking, period. I can't recall anyone expressing the feeling that they should make more money than the slackers, just that the slackers should do some darn work. We don't get hung up on the money part or who should make what kind of money, just don't make my job harder. I guess it's a different culture. I chose my career for the money. I am all about what I earn so I would be livid if a slacker made the same money I didn't choose my career for the money, but to me how much I'm paid is a correlation of how much I'm valued by my employer. If I found out someone is a slacker is paid more than I am, then to me that I am not valued.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2015 18:08:00 GMT -5
I chose my career for the money. I am all about what I earn so I would be livid if a slacker made the same money I didn't choose my career for the money, but to me how much I'm paid is a correlation of how much I'm valued by my employer. If I found out someone is a slacker is paid more than I am, then to me that I am not valued. There are probably professions that pay more then yours that you do not respect, how does that make you feel. I have had bosses who were complete dumbasses. It is the way of the world.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 2, 2015 18:08:43 GMT -5
I chose my career for the money. I am all about what I earn so I would be livid if a slacker made the same money It sounds like you chose your career in part based on what others make or do not make. No. I chose my career because I knew i could make good money. I work hard and bring value to the company. I expect to be paid what Im worth. But I would be mad if I busted my ass and some slacker made more than me. I would probably be mad enough to find a new job.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2015 18:12:31 GMT -5
It sounds like you chose your career in part based on what others make or do not make. No. I chose my career because I knew i could make good money. I work hard and bring value to the company. I expect to be paid what Im worth. But I would be mad if I busted my ass and some slacker made more than me. I would probably be mad enough to find a new job. I work hard and try to make sure my company gets a good day's work from me. I do not really worry about other's pay except as a benchmark on what I could be getting paid. You are an interesting poster and I like reading your opinions, but I do not think you would like me if you knew me and my views . I hope you do get paid what you are worth.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Aug 2, 2015 18:15:50 GMT -5
I didn't choose my career for the money, but to me how much I'm paid is a correlation of how much I'm valued by my employer. If I found out someone is a slacker is paid more than I am, then to me that I am not valued. There are probably professions that pay more then yours that you do not respect, how does that make you feel. I have had bosses who were complete dumbasses. It is the way of the world. I don't care about what people in other professions are paid. I care what my employer pays me in relation to the people around me. If I work my ass off and add value to the organization, then i expect my employer to demonstrate that they value me. In my current workplace there are three other people with the same job title as me. Two of them work as hard as I do, and I have no problem if they make the same or even a little more than me (one of them I'd be cool if he made significantly more given his professional background). However, the other person is a slacker. If I found out he made more than me, then that would demonstrate to me that my employer values that person more despite the fact he does as little as possible. I would start seriously looking for another job. Because I don't want to work somewhere that doesn't consider how much an employee contributes to the organization when determining their salary.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2015 18:18:38 GMT -5
There are probably professions that pay more then yours that you do not respect, how does that make you feel. I have had bosses who were complete dumbasses. It is the way of the world. I don't care about what people in other professions are paid. I care what my employer pays me in relation to the people around me. If I work my ass off and add value to the organization, then i expect my employer to demonstrate that they value me. In my current workplace there are three other people with the same job title as me. Two of them work as hard as I do, and I have no problem if they make the same or even a little more than me (one of them I'd be cool if he made significantly more given his professional background). However, the other person is a slacker. If I found out he made more than me, then that would demonstrate to me that my employer values that person more despite the fact he does as little as possible. I would start seriously looking for another job. Because I don't want to work somewhere that doesn't consider how much an employee contributes to the organization when determining their salary. I think that is why businesses do not want pay to be discussed. It seems you have found a job that fits your views. I am different and am happy that my job pays differently. Different strokes for different folks. It is why we live in such an interesting world. Good luck to you and boo on the slacker at your job.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 2, 2015 18:24:07 GMT -5
No. I chose my career because I knew i could make good money. I work hard and bring value to the company. I expect to be paid what Im worth. But I would be mad if I busted my ass and some slacker made more than me. I would probably be mad enough to find a new job. I work hard and try to make sure my company gets a good day's work from me. I do not really worry about other's pay except as a benchmark on what I could be getting paid. You are an interesting poster and I like reading your opinions, but I do not think you would like me if you knew me and my views . I hope you do get paid what you are worth. Lol! I'm guessing there are a lot on here that don't like me because of my views...it would be boring if we all thought alike
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2015 18:25:46 GMT -5
I work hard and try to make sure my company gets a good day's work from me. I do not really worry about other's pay except as a benchmark on what I could be getting paid. You are an interesting poster and I like reading your opinions, but I do not think you would like me if you knew me and my views . I hope you do get paid what you are worth. Lol! I'm guessing there are a lot on here that don't like me because of my views...it would be boring if we all thought alike I really like people with strong views who express them well, and you do that.
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joemilitary
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Post by joemilitary on Aug 2, 2015 18:26:50 GMT -5
I work hard and try to make sure my company gets a good day's work from me. I do not really worry about other's pay except as a benchmark on what I could be getting paid. You are an interesting poster and I like reading your opinions, but I do not think you would like me if you knew me and my views . I hope you do get paid what you are worth. Lol! I'm guessing there are a lot on here that don't like me because of my views...it would be boring if we all thought alike
More importantly, where has your sister, miss margarita been?
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Aug 2, 2015 18:31:41 GMT -5
If people want to discuss their salaries, they should be able to discuss their salaries. Not while at work of course, just go to work and do your job. But, I think it is fine to talk about with others if you want to. But, really, a lot of people are liars anyway so who even knows if someone is telling you the truth anyway? And, if you did find out that someone makes more, that shouldn't be a cause for envy. When I would find out someone made more, then I thought to myself, 'well, OK then, why can't I make more too" so I learned how to negotiate better for my jobs. You should want to bring yourself up rather bring the other person down. But, it seems to me, that more people are interested to try to bring someone else down who is making more than they are in trying to take themselves up.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 2, 2015 18:34:06 GMT -5
Lol! I'm guessing there are a lot on here that don't like me because of my views...it would be boring if we all thought alike
More importantly, where has your sister, miss margarita been?
She transitioned to male recently and we are now engaged to get married.
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MJ2.0
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Post by MJ2.0 on Aug 2, 2015 18:36:32 GMT -5
When I went from entry level to supervisor, I found out what my former colleagues were making. I was not amused to find that NCG started at a higher salary than I did - without having a degree or as much FT work experience as I did.
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joemilitary
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Post by joemilitary on Aug 2, 2015 19:03:15 GMT -5
More importantly, where has your sister, miss margarita been?
She transitioned to male recently and we are now engaged to get married.
The reverse of Caitlyn Jenners!
I smell reality show! I can be your agent......what do you say?
Also what will Miss Margarita's screen name be now? Mr. Miss Margarita?
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 2, 2015 19:04:43 GMT -5
She transitioned to male recently and we are now engaged to get married.
The reverse of Caitlyn Jenners!
I smell reality show! I can be your agent......what do you say?
Also what will Miss Margarita's screen name be now? Mr. Miss Margarita?
We are trend setters...she will be known as MrTequila
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joemilitary
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Post by joemilitary on Aug 2, 2015 19:15:20 GMT -5
The reverse of Caitlyn Jenners!
I smell reality show! I can be your agent......what do you say?
Also what will Miss Margarita's screen name be now? Mr. Miss Margarita?
We are trend setters...she will be known as MrTequila
But isn't it politically incorrect to refer to your mate as a "she" now that the transition has occurred?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2015 19:29:36 GMT -5
I don't even want to know specifics, but salary ranges for each position would help. However, they won't post salary ranges for positions because I'm fairly sure that there are a few people who were hired in at relatively high salaries given the work they do (for example, we just hired a new coordinator, who it wouldn't shock me to find out made about the same as me, despite the fact that position is suppose to be two to three grades lower than mine). I also think it's very difficult to negotiate your salary for a new position if you don't know what the salary range is before hand. I agree. I had a co-worker who was at the top of her range and thus was not eligible for raises or even a bonus. Not wanting to find myself in that position, I once asked an HR lady what the range was for my level. (Coworker was based Munich so they probably had different scales and the info wouldn't have given away her salary.) I was tartly informed, "That's confidential information and no one has access to it". Ummm, not even HR? Not even the people who are at the top of their range?
HR can be SO obtuse.
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Miss Tequila
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Post by Miss Tequila on Aug 2, 2015 19:34:53 GMT -5
We are trend setters...she will be known as MrTequila
But isn't it politically incorrect to refer to your mate as a "she" now that the transition has occurred?
IVe never been accused of being politically correct :-p
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flamingo
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Post by flamingo on Aug 2, 2015 20:11:41 GMT -5
I know what one co-worker makes. I'm part of the "management team" and I helped hire her. She makes less than me, and her title is "less" than mine. Another coworker with my same title makes more than me, I'm sure, but he's been around longer. I don't actually want them to know what I make. Coworker who makes less would be really unhappy to find that out and other coworker may not make "enough" more than me to keep him happy. I did a decent job negotiating when I was hired.
I also know what I make relevant to those whose positions are "below" mine and am more than happy with what I'm paid. So my interest in knowing what others in my organization make is purely nosy. I'm happy with I'm paid for the work I do.
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Shooby
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Post by Shooby on Aug 2, 2015 20:33:01 GMT -5
Here's an interesting question. Do your kids or family know,?
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joemilitary
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Post by joemilitary on Aug 2, 2015 20:41:08 GMT -5
But isn't it politically incorrect to refer to your mate as a "she" now that the transition has occurred?
IVe never been accused of being politically correct :-p
So you're not sensitive to the plight of your lover?
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Aug 2, 2015 20:43:48 GMT -5
I know what one co-worker makes. I'm part of the "management team" and I helped hire her. She makes less than me, and her title is "less" than mine. Another coworker with my same title makes more than me, I'm sure, but he's been around longer. I don't actually want them to know what I make. Coworker who makes less would be really unhappy to find that out and other coworker may not make "enough" more than me to keep him happy. I did a decent job negotiating when I was hired. I also know what I make relevant to those whose positions are "below" mine and am more than happy with what I'm paid. So my interest in knowing what others in my organization make is purely nosy. I'm happy with I'm paid for the work I do. Was there a salary range for your position? Or how did you negiotiate to get a salary you were happy with? This has always been an issue that I have struggled with. The last job offer I received, they wouldn't negotiate at all, and I ended up walking away. And it's the first one I really tried to negotiate so I'm sure I didn't position myself well. Salary ranges aren't typically posted in my industry, and so I'm usually at a loss about what to expect. I do think that if you can negotiate a salary you are happy with from the get go that you generally care less about what others make. in terms of my current employer, I am generally fine with what they pay me, but I don't like salary ranges for positions aren't public. So I suspect I do have co-workers who are more junior who make more. Either because they are offered more initially or because they negotiate well.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Aug 2, 2015 20:50:12 GMT -5
Here's an interesting question. Do your kids or family know,? My brother and I have a general idea of how much each other make (as we make similar amounts), but no one else in my family knows my salary. Although I think my dad has a vague idea. I don't share even the range of my salary with other family members because a couple of them would see me as their personal piggy bank. I make a decent salary for my area, and I can afford some of my wants, but I definitely don't have money laying around to support others.
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flamingo
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Post by flamingo on Aug 2, 2015 20:57:34 GMT -5
Emma-yes there is a salary range for my position. Posted internally only nap going in I had no idea what others made. But I asked the hiring manager during my interview what the range was. She told this position pays X. When offered the job HR tried to lowball me but I held firm. Then I negotiated a small bump above that in lieu of moving expenses. So I ended up with an 11% raise from my last job. That made me happy.
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emma1420
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Post by emma1420 on Aug 2, 2015 21:11:28 GMT -5
Emma-yes there is a salary range for my position. Posted internally only nap going in I had no idea what others made. But I asked the hiring manager during my interview what the range was. She told this position pays X. When offered the job HR tried to lowball me but I held firm. Then I negotiated a small bump above that in lieu of moving expenses. So I ended up with an 11% raise from my last job. That made me happy. In my industry it's standard to request salary expectations or salary history from candidates when they submit their resume. I won't submit my salary history. What I make now is not what I would accept for a position in a. HCOL area (which are where most jobs are located). I have never asked the salary range for the position, because I don't want to put off an employer talking about salary, benefits, etc., because I know how off putting my boss finds that in interviews. I'm not sure when is the right time to raise that in an interview. Does anyone have any suggestions from the hiring perspective?
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svwashout
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Post by svwashout on Aug 2, 2015 21:13:59 GMT -5
My understanding is at many tech companies like Google, salary is the tip of the iceberg. Anyway IMO to make sure you're being paid fairly, don't worry about what your bosses or co-workers earn, instead interview around and see what kind of offers come in from outside. And share your results with your current employer, put the ball in their court. What's wrong with spending your time and effort where it's most valued? Put the companies with inequitable pay scales at a competitive disadvantage. I got my biggest bumps this way, you shouldn't do this too often, it's best to time your application to a high-paying competitor who is looking specifically in your area of expertise. That's when you want to start a bidding war. It's like if your co-worker paid too much for his car because he didn't shop around, but you got a great deal on the same model after pounding the pavement, I don't see the difference in what you paid as being unfair. That's what an open market is supposed to be good at-- to iron out these mis-pricings. I see no reason to have to justify my paycheck to anyone except the person who writes it. Like my mama told me,
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