Deleted
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DUI's
Jul 11, 2015 15:02:11 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2015 15:02:11 GMT -5
He doesn't WANT to stop drinking. Period. Jail will stop him from hurting anyone else. He doesn't want to go to jail either. What about other people, say someone with 2 or 3 DUIs? Would the idea work on them? I am more interested in the idea of giving someone the choice to quit drinking in a verified way then talking about this guy.
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Deleted
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DUI's
Jul 11, 2015 15:04:43 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2015 15:04:43 GMT -5
How many times do people have to tell you that you can't force someone to stop doing something until they are ready to do it. The courts have forced people to rehab but many of them relapse. I reject that idea. Millions of people have quit drinking for thousands of different reasons.
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dannylion
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Post by dannylion on Jul 11, 2015 15:19:58 GMT -5
How many times do people have to tell you that you can't force someone to stop doing something until they are ready to do it. The courts have forced people to rehab but many of them relapse. I reject that idea. Millions of people have quit drinking for thousands of different reasons. I can reject the "idea" of gravity, but that wouldn't change reality; I still wouldn't be able to fly.
Millions of people have quit drinking because they were ready and made the choice to do so themselves, not because it was imposed on them or because they had to show up clean once in a while to avoid punishment.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jul 11, 2015 15:55:22 GMT -5
He doesn't WANT to stop drinking. Period. Jail will stop him from hurting anyone else. He doesn't want to go to jail either. What about other people, say someone with 2 or 3 DUIs? Would the idea work on them? I am more interested in the idea of giving someone the choice to quit drinking in a verified way then talking about this guy. Nobody wants to go to jail. That's the point. If if it's his 5th DWI, and he's on parole/probation, he's already been given the chance to quit drinking. That's one of the conditions of probation/parole.
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zibazinski
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DUI's
Jul 11, 2015 16:01:05 GMT -5
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Post by zibazinski on Jul 11, 2015 16:01:05 GMT -5
He obviously thinks, and why not, that he won't go to jail.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2015 16:03:26 GMT -5
How many times do people have to tell you that you can't force someone to stop doing something until they are ready to do it. The courts have forced people to rehab but many of them relapse. I reject that idea. Millions of people have quit drinking for thousands of different reasons. Millions of people HAVE MADE THE DECISION to quit drinking for thousands of reasons. Ie. They might have different reasons, but they all do it by deciding that they themselves are ready to do it...
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Deleted
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DUI's
Jul 11, 2015 16:04:32 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2015 16:04:32 GMT -5
He doesn't want to go to jail either. What about other people, say someone with 2 or 3 DUIs? Would the idea work on them? I am more interested in the idea of giving someone the choice to quit drinking in a verified way then talking about this guy. Nobody wants to go to jail. That's the point. If if it's his 5th DWI, and he's on parole/probation, he's already been given the chance to quit drinking. That's one of the conditions of probation/parole. this was not a good example to ask about what I was asking about. I don't know anything about the guy other then what I have said here. So maybe he should go to jail. I just liked the idea of givng someone a choice to quit drinking in response to a DUI. Maybe after 1 or 2 DUs would be a better time.
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Deleted
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DUI's
Jul 11, 2015 16:05:57 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2015 16:05:57 GMT -5
And why don't you understand that THEY ARE given those chances?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2015 17:18:32 GMT -5
Nobody wants to go to jail. That's the point. If if it's his 5th DWI, and he's on parole/probation, he's already been given the chance to quit drinking. That's one of the conditions of probation/parole. this was not a good example to ask about what I was asking about. I don't know anything about the guy other then what I have said here. So maybe he should go to jail. I just liked the idea of givng someone a choice to quit drinking in response to a DUI. Maybe after 1 or 2 DUs would be a better time. hickle, they do have the choice to quit, at any point. They can even choose to seek help with quitting if they don't believe they can do it on their own. At any time. They make a choice every time drink, and another choice when they drive a vehicle after they've been drinking. Whether they're driving under the influence and have never got caught or they have 4 DUI's, they still are choosing to do it. Heck, they can choose the drinks, and still choose not to drive when they've been drinking. One of the hardest things I had to accept when I was raising my children was that you can't really make another person do something they don't want to do, no matter how much it's in their best interest to do it. You can use rewards and consequences to influence their behavior, but those come after the action or behavior, you still can't force anybody to choose correctly in the first place. All you can really do is impose consequences on people's inappropriate or illegal actions. They still get to choose whether the potential consequences are worth the behavior to them.
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Deleted
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DUI's
Jul 11, 2015 17:25:42 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2015 17:25:42 GMT -5
this was not a good example to ask about what I was asking about. I don't know anything about the guy other then what I have said here. So maybe he should go to jail. I just liked the idea of givng someone a choice to quit drinking in response to a DUI. Maybe after 1 or 2 DUs would be a better time. hickle, they do have the choice to quit, at any point. They can even choose to seek help with quitting if they don't believe they can do it on their own. At any time. They make a choice every time drink, and another choice when they drive a vehicle after they've been drinking. Whether they're driving under the influence and have never got caught or they have 4 DUI's, they still are choosing to do it. Heck, they can choose the drinks, and still choose not to drive when they've been drinking. One of the hardest things I had to accept when I was raising my children was that you can't really make another person do something they don't want to do, no matter how much it's in their best interest to do it. You can use rewards and consequences to influence their behavior, but those come after the action or behavior, you still can't force anybody to choose correctly in the first place. All you can really do is impose consequences on people's inappropriate or illegal actions. They still get to choose whether the potential consequences are worth the behavior to them. when a I said "giving someone the choice" I meant forcing the choice on someone. You can give children choices, either do this or that happens. I think you can to do the same with adults. I do not buy the "powerless against alcohol" or whatever the AA thing is. If given the choice between jail for 2 years or not drinking for 2 years I think a lot of people could stop drinking, maybe not all and for those jail would be what happened.
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Deleted
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DUI's
Jul 11, 2015 18:11:57 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2015 18:11:57 GMT -5
hickle, they do have the choice to quit, at any point. They can even choose to seek help with quitting if they don't believe they can do it on their own. At any time. They make a choice every time drink, and another choice when they drive a vehicle after they've been drinking. Whether they're driving under the influence and have never got caught or they have 4 DUI's, they still are choosing to do it. Heck, they can choose the drinks, and still choose not to drive when they've been drinking. One of the hardest things I had to accept when I was raising my children was that you can't really make another person do something they don't want to do, no matter how much it's in their best interest to do it. You can use rewards and consequences to influence their behavior, but those come after the action or behavior, you still can't force anybody to choose correctly in the first place. All you can really do is impose consequences on people's inappropriate or illegal actions. They still get to choose whether the potential consequences are worth the behavior to them. when a I said "giving someone the choice" I meant forcing the choice on someone. You can give children choices, either do this or that happens. I think you can to do the same with adults. I do not buy the "powerless against alcohol" or whatever the AA thing is. If given the choice between jail for 2 years or not drinking for 2 years I think a lot of people could stop drinking, maybe not all and for those jail would be what happened. Well, a lot of times my children chose "or that". ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/confused.png) And I think children are generally more easily influenced than adults, so I fully expect that a lot of adults will choose "or that" too, especially when dealing with an addiction. And I do believe alchoholism can be an addiction.
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swamp
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Post by swamp on Jul 11, 2015 18:46:53 GMT -5
hickle, they do have the choice to quit, at any point. They can even choose to seek help with quitting if they don't believe they can do it on their own. At any time. They make a choice every time drink, and another choice when they drive a vehicle after they've been drinking. Whether they're driving under the influence and have never got caught or they have 4 DUI's, they still are choosing to do it. Heck, they can choose the drinks, and still choose not to drive when they've been drinking. One of the hardest things I had to accept when I was raising my children was that you can't really make another person do something they don't want to do, no matter how much it's in their best interest to do it. You can use rewards and consequences to influence their behavior, but those come after the action or behavior, you still can't force anybody to choose correctly in the first place. All you can really do is impose consequences on people's inappropriate or illegal actions. They still get to choose whether the potential consequences are worth the behavior to them. when a I said "giving someone the choice" I meant forcing the choice on someone. You can give children choices, either do this or that happens. I think you can to do the same with adults. I do not buy the "powerless against alcohol" or whatever the AA thing is. If given the choice between jail for 2 years or not drinking for 2 years I think a lot of people could stop drinking, maybe not all and for those jail would be what happened. If people with addictions were that rational I wouldn't have a job. Lots of people end up in jail because their addiction fuels criminal behavior. And they don't go to prison first offense.
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Tennesseer
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DUI's
Jul 12, 2015 9:22:53 GMT -5
Post by Tennesseer on Jul 12, 2015 9:22:53 GMT -5
Here's the story for one of our repeat DUI offenders with 5 prior DUI's that included crashing into other vehicles while drunk. Drunk off his ass yet again, 3X the legal limit, ON PROBATION for drunk driving, with a suspended license, GETS IN A CAR and plows into a family, killing two of the people (grandparents) and severely injuring a mom and her baby that are still dealing with strokes and multiple surgeries. So every time we should just give him the alternative to stop drinking? You don't think the escalating penalties gave him an indicator that he needed to stop? How many second chances to people deserve? Maybe a billion times now I have said no. With my proposal if a person drinks he goes to jail. He verifies it at his expense. So with my proposal that would be one time. I do not understand why people do not understand that. This guy was never forced to stop drinking, that is the crux of my proposal. No one drives drunk if they do not drink. No one drives drunk if they are in jail. Those are the only two alternatives of what I am proposing. With your idea the man stops drinking or goes to jail-how is the state going to monitor his consumption of liquids 24 hours a day? Does he get a breathalyzer and blood test 3-4 times a day? Does his parole officer visit him at home and at his place of work 5-6 times a day? How will the state monitor his activities 24 hours a day? An ankle bracelet means nothing as the state is concerned what substances enter his body. The substances do not need to be purchased by him as an enabler can buy for him and he drinks at home. How will your suggestion work? Please provide a legal method to track his consumptions that does not require the state to provide a 24 hour-a-day on-site babysitter. Prison offers the on-site state-paid babysitter.
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Deleted
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DUI's
Jul 12, 2015 9:38:11 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2015 9:38:11 GMT -5
when a I said "giving someone the choice" I meant forcing the choice on someone. You can give children choices, either do this or that happens. I think you can to do the same with adults. I do not buy the "powerless against alcohol" or whatever the AA thing is. If given the choice between jail for 2 years or not drinking for 2 years I think a lot of people could stop drinking, maybe not all and for those jail would be what happened. Well, a lot of times my children chose "or that". ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/confused.png) And I think children are generally more easily influenced than adults, so I fully expect that a lot of adults will choose "or that" too, especially when dealing with an addiction. And I do believe alchoholism can be an addiction. when they choose "or that" you give them "or that". If they choose other then "or that" it is a win, both for you and for them, right?
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Deleted
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DUI's
Jul 12, 2015 9:39:55 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2015 9:39:55 GMT -5
when a I said "giving someone the choice" I meant forcing the choice on someone. You can give children choices, either do this or that happens. I think you can to do the same with adults. I do not buy the "powerless against alcohol" or whatever the AA thing is. If given the choice between jail for 2 years or not drinking for 2 years I think a lot of people could stop drinking, maybe not all and for those jail would be what happened. If people with addictions were that rational I wouldn't have a job. Lots of people end up in jail because their addiction fuels criminal behavior. And they don't go to prison first offense. In your practice have you ever seen someone go to jail because they failed a drug test or alcohol test? It is not a new idea to test for substances and put in jail if they fail, is it?
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Deleted
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DUI's
Jul 12, 2015 9:48:21 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2015 9:48:21 GMT -5
If people with addictions were that rational I wouldn't have a job. Lots of people end up in jail because their addiction fuels criminal behavior. And they don't go to prison first offense. In your practice have you ever seen someone go to jail because they failed a drug test or alcohol test? It is not a new idea to test for substances and put in jail if they fail, is it? It's the monitoring 24/7 that is unrealistic. In my state, no alcohol consumption/going to bars is a standard line in the probation conditions. 90% (I'm guessing based on those I know) break that within 24 hours of getting set free and are never caught.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2015 9:48:34 GMT -5
Here's the story for one of our repeat DUI offenders with 5 prior DUI's that included crashing into other vehicles while drunk. Drunk off his ass yet again, 3X the legal limit, ON PROBATION for drunk driving, with a suspended license, GETS IN A CAR and plows into a family, killing two of the people (grandparents) and severely injuring a mom and her baby that are still dealing with strokes and multiple surgeries. So every time we should just give him the alternative to stop drinking? You don't think the escalating penalties gave him an indicator that he needed to stop? How many second chances to people deserve? Maybe a billion times now I have said no. With my proposal if a person drinks he goes to jail. He verifies it at his expense. So with my proposal that would be one time. I do not understand why people do not understand that. This guy was never forced to stop drinking, that is the crux of my proposal. No one drives drunk if they do not drink. No one drives drunk if they are in jail. Those are the only two alternatives of what I am proposing. Well, the court has already told your friend not to drink & drive. They have not told him he can't drink at all, but even the assignment to not get into a car when you have been drinking is beyond him. Time for jail. Too bad he hasn't made the choice to put himself into a cessation program or gotten that prescription drug that alcoholics can use to help stop drinking. He doesn't want to stop AND doesn't seem to think what he's doing is a problem. He is a hazard.
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Deleted
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DUI's
Jul 12, 2015 9:52:30 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2015 9:52:30 GMT -5
In your practice have you ever seen someone go to jail because they failed a drug test or alcohol test? It is not a new idea to test for substances and put in jail if they fail, is it? It's the monitoring 24/7 that is unrealistic. In my state, no alcohol consumption/going to bars is a standard line in the probation conditions. 90% (I'm guessing based on those I know) break that within 24 hours of getting set free and are never caught. someone here said that hair testing can be accurate for up to a week Going to a police station every day and taking a breathalyzer might work. Maybe going twice a day would work. Is your problem with the proposal based on technical problems or philosophical problems? If the testing could be done, would you be for it in some circumstances?
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Deleted
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DUI's
Jul 12, 2015 9:55:12 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2015 9:55:12 GMT -5
Maybe a billion times now I have said no. With my proposal if a person drinks he goes to jail. He verifies it at his expense. So with my proposal that would be one time. I do not understand why people do not understand that. This guy was never forced to stop drinking, that is the crux of my proposal. No one drives drunk if they do not drink. No one drives drunk if they are in jail. Those are the only two alternatives of what I am proposing. Well, the court has already told your friend not to drink & drive. They have not told him he can't drink at all, but even the assignment to not get into a car when you have been drinking is beyond him. Time for jail. Too bad he hasn't made the choice to put himself into a cessation program or gotten that prescription drug that alcoholics can use to help stop drinking. He doesn't want to stop AND doesn't seem to think what he's doing is a problem. He is a hazard. He is not my friend, he is just some guy I met at work and wanted to talk about here. Is there a difference to you between these two concepts: first concept----trust,,, second concept---don't trust, verify constantly?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2015 9:56:28 GMT -5
It's the monitoring 24/7 that is unrealistic. In my state, no alcohol consumption/going to bars is a standard line in the probation conditions. 90% (I'm guessing based on those I know) break that within 24 hours of getting set free and are never caught. someone here said that hair testing can be accurate for up to a week Going to a police station every day and taking a breathalyzer might work. Maybe going twice a day would work. Is your problem with the proposal based on technical problems or philosophical problems? If the testing could be done, would you be for it in some circumstances? Both. Logistically it would be a nightmare. Remember, we're not talking about just your friend here. It would be everyone with a DUI. Philosophically, after 5 DUIs I say F*** him. He had more than enough chances to get his act together and his kids are better off without that influence in their lives.
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Deleted
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DUI's
Jul 12, 2015 10:02:30 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2015 10:02:30 GMT -5
someone here said that hair testing can be accurate for up to a week Going to a police station every day and taking a breathalyzer might work. Maybe going twice a day would work. Is your problem with the proposal based on technical problems or philosophical problems? If the testing could be done, would you be for it in some circumstances? Both. Logistically it would be a nightmare. Remember, we're not talking about just your friend here. It would be everyone with a DUI. Philosophically, after 5 DUIs I say F*** him. He had more than enough chances to get his act together and his kids are better off without that influence in their lives. I don't know if he has kids. His divorce was final last week. If he does have young children are they better off without his ~$70,000 income. I do not understand why logistically it would be hard. Police stations could administer then, at say, $25 a test. Still a lot cheaper then jail and he could pay for them himself. Those who could not pay, it is still cheaper then jail. If he does not show up for test, then issue warrant, no different then if he does not show up for court sentencing. The reason I know he divorced last week is because I went to the building he was working on to get some materials and asked him how things were going, so I could post here ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/smiley.png) . The reason I know his income is we both have the same union job and I know my income. 5 DUIs is a lot and it is hard to have any sympathy for him.
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Deleted
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DUI's
Jul 12, 2015 10:08:39 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2015 10:08:39 GMT -5
Yes & most states have a "verify before driving" solution to put a breathalyzer lock on the vehicle ignition. If the acquaintance is on DUI #5 they probably already went through that step (or don't have it in your state) and he has switched vehicles.
I heard on the radio last week that car manufacturers are looking at installing standard technology that will sense the blood alcohol level and disable the vehicle from starting. So we will all pay for the drunks not being willing to stop driving, but in this case I think it is a better solution since too many innocent people are being killed by drunk drivers.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2015 10:11:29 GMT -5
If he does have young children are they better off without his ~$70,000 income. I don't know. Maybe. Money isn't everything. If I was his ex and we had young kids I sure wouldn't want him taking the kids anywhere. Also, there's probably some law abiding, concerned for his fellow man guy out there with young kids that could really use that 70K/year job. ![](http://images.proboards.com/new/wink.png)
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Deleted
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DUI's
Jul 12, 2015 10:20:35 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2015 10:20:35 GMT -5
Do people here know many people with bad or problematic ways? I work with a lot of people who have had DUI's. One guy who was in prison for 24 years, but won't say why, one guy who robbed banks, lots of people who talk racisistly. A lot of them are nice, but then I remember he did some really assholish thing. It is hard for me not to have sympathy for someone who seems nice and friendly even though they made some terrible choices. If that makes sense.
As far as the 5 DUIs, I have driven drunk more then 5 times. I have no DUIs and would have changed my ways after the first, but if the thing he did wrong was put others at risk for driving drunk then I have done the same thing. I just didn't get caught. There are probably some people here who have never driven drunk, and I don't any more. I don't drink. But I do not think there are any angels here who have never done something bad that either did or could have hurt someone else a great deal. Texting on the phone puts others at great risk, for example.
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sesfw
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Post by sesfw on Jul 12, 2015 10:30:37 GMT -5
I'm one of those people that think anyone convicted of a DUI should be charged with assault with a deadly weapon and jailed. I don't think anyone put a gun to the defendant's head and forced them to drink. Personal choice, personal responsibility.
I've gotten off of several juries by telling the judge this. Somehow defending attorneys don't like my attitude.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2015 10:30:26 GMT -5
Do people here know many people with bad or problematic ways? I work with a lot of people who have had DUI's. One guy who was in prison for 24 years, but won't say why, one guy who robbed banks, lots of people who talk racisistly. A lot of them are nice, but then I remember he did some really assholish thing. It is hard for me not to have sympathy for someone who seems nice and friendly even though they made some terrible choices. If that makes sense. As far as the 5 DUIs, I have driven drunk more then 5 times. I have no DUIs and would have changed my ways after the first, but if the thing he did wrong was put others at risk for driving drunk then I have done the same thing. I just didn't get caught. There are probably some people here who have never driven drunk, and I don't any more. I don't drink. But I do not think there are any angels here who have never done something bad that either did or could have hurt someone else a great deal. Texting on the phone puts others at great risk, for example. A nice racist? ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/wte.png) Addicts, narcissists, and just assholes in general latch on to people like you and charm the hell out of them.
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Deleted
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DUI's
Jul 12, 2015 10:43:57 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2015 10:43:57 GMT -5
Do people here know many people with bad or problematic ways? I work with a lot of people who have had DUI's. One guy who was in prison for 24 years, but won't say why, one guy who robbed banks, lots of people who talk racisistly. A lot of them are nice, but then I remember he did some really assholish thing. It is hard for me not to have sympathy for someone who seems nice and friendly even though they made some terrible choices. If that makes sense. As far as the 5 DUIs, I have driven drunk more then 5 times. I have no DUIs and would have changed my ways after the first, but if the thing he did wrong was put others at risk for driving drunk then I have done the same thing. I just didn't get caught. There are probably some people here who have never driven drunk, and I don't any more. I don't drink. But I do not think there are any angels here who have never done something bad that either did or could have hurt someone else a great deal. Texting on the phone puts others at great risk, for example. A nice racist? ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/wte.png) Addicts, narcissists, and just assholes in general latch on to people like you and charm the hell out of them. why is it hard to believe a nice racist? Most racists that I know don't want to hang ------- from a tree. They just don't want to have their kids marry one or think they are lazy or whatever. It is no more ignorant then what some posters think of southerners in that thread. But to honest, I think pretty much everyone is a bit racist to some extent. It might not be some ugly overwhelming racist thoughts, but still racist. Go into a cafeteria with 2 groups of people separated by color and most people, almost all, will sit with the color they are. The ones that don't are still probably picking by race, they just want to be that person that does that. My thoughts and I know posters will say they don't do that, but I don't believe them. People don't latch onto me. I do try to get along with the people I work with and do not believe the worst thing about a person defines all of who that person is.
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Deleted
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DUI's
Jul 12, 2015 10:45:35 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2015 10:45:35 GMT -5
I'm one of those people that think anyone convicted of a DUI should be charged with assault with a deadly weapon and jailed. I don't think anyone put a gun to the defendant's head and forced them to drink. Personal choice, personal responsibility.
I've gotten off of several juries by telling the judge this. Somehow defending attorneys don't like my attitude. what about people who text while driving? It is every bit as dangerous for the moment or two the driver is texting.
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The Captain
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Post by The Captain on Jul 12, 2015 10:48:18 GMT -5
Do people here know many people with bad or problematic ways? I work with a lot of people who have had DUI's. One guy who was in prison for 24 years, but won't say why, one guy who robbed banks, lots of people who talk racisistly. A lot of them are nice, but then I remember he did some really assholish thing. It is hard for me not to have sympathy for someone who seems nice and friendly even though they made some terrible choices. If that makes sense. As far as the 5 DUIs, I have driven drunk more then 5 times. I have no DUIs and would have changed my ways after the first, but if the thing he did wrong was put others at risk for driving drunk then I have done the same thing. I just didn't get caught. There are probably some people here who have never driven drunk, and I don't any more. I don't drink. But I do not think there are any angels here who have never done something bad that either did or could have hurt someone else a great deal. Texting on the phone puts others at great risk, for example. I sure as hell am not an Angel. But I have never, and will never, knowingly initiate an action that could cause serious harm or death to another individual. I don't even use my cell phone while driving (and that was before it became the law here). A car that is not under total control of the driver is a potential killing machine. Seriously, go back and read your posts - do you really care so little about other people's safety?
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dannylion
Junior Associate
Gravity is a harsh mistress
Joined: Dec 18, 2010 12:17:52 GMT -5
Posts: 5,198
Location: Miles over the madness horizon and accelerating
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Post by dannylion on Jul 12, 2015 10:48:37 GMT -5
Do people here know many people with bad or problematic ways? I work with a lot of people who have had DUI's. One guy who was in prison for 24 years, but won't say why, one guy who robbed banks, lots of people who talk racisistly. A lot of them are nice, but then I remember he did some really assholish thing. It is hard for me not to have sympathy for someone who seems nice and friendly even though they made some terrible choices. If that makes sense. As far as the 5 DUIs, I have driven drunk more then 5 times. I have no DUIs and would have changed my ways after the first, but if the thing he did wrong was put others at risk for driving drunk then I have done the same thing. I just didn't get caught. There are probably some people here who have never driven drunk, and I don't any more. I don't drink. But I do not think there are any angels here who have never done something bad that either did or could have hurt someone else a great deal. Texting on the phone puts others at great risk, for example. A nice racist? ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/wte.png) Addicts, narcissists, and just assholes in general latch on to people like you and charm the hell out of them. ![](http://syonidv.hodginsmedia.com/vsmileys/yeahthat.gif)
And it is possible to choose not to associate with irresponsible assholes. One may have to work with them, but it is not necessary identify with them or to view their irresponsible behavior as normal. Familiarity does not confer acceptability.
Just because someone is capable of appearing to be "nice" is no reason to keep turning them loose to continue to endanger others. If the consequences are not significant, assholes will choose to continue their antisocial behavior until the opportunity to do so is removed.
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